Winter tyres

GTE

lameire wrote: »

Still searching for the best price for tyres.
Eire tyres seem to have best availability BUT are quite expensive.
Other websites out of stock
Came across 're-moulds' on eiretyres website via link from delti.

Seem quite reasonable & have M&S marking.
They are Winter Tact(never heard of them)

Anyone know if these are any good?

If not, may just get tyres from UK site and delivery to mum in Scotland & ask her to send over to me.

Les

I think it was this thread that I brought up that the M&S marking doesnt mean as much as it should as it would seem there isnt a very strict test for a tyre manufacturer to be alllowed to put it on the tyre.

The Mountain Snowflake mark that Matt posted here I think is what you should really be looking for. The tests for this are more strict so look for a tyre with that.

I was looking at my dads tyres and it said Alpine Proven on them. I doubt that really means anything.

lol
Google throws this thread up as the first link for Mountain Snowflake mark!
http://www.google.ie/search?q=mountain+snowflake+mark&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a7

EDIT:
I dont know if it is easy for people but a lot of tyre places in the North do stock a lot of Winters.
Kwik Fit have the Continental Winter Contact TS830 in 195/65/15 for £65.

I visited three places besides Kwik fit that stocked Winters. Looking at about £60 to £70.

peasant

Re-mould tyres are cack ...summer tyres or winter tyres.
The only tyre where I would contemplate a re-mould is an agressive off-road only tyre where it doesn't matter if blocks of tread break off or the whole carcass separates from the tread (as re-moulds have a habit of doing)

Matt Simis

I drove from Leixlip to Athboy last night, at midnight.
Leixlip: -0.5c and clear
Kilcock to Trim to Athboy: -5 and a low of -6.5c and dense fog.


The snow, which out in the sticks was still out on the road (white roads), was now rock hard and effectively ice mounds. It was the most surreal driving experience, 4x4s struggling to get moving or crawling along at 20mph, no one else even tried to drive (saw nothing but 2 vans and about 7 4x4s). The S8 with the Winters proved to be the better of the "snow-ice", though it was noisely as f__k driving as the ice as it smashed all around.

I could overtake and generally drive nearly "as normal". It was kinda like driving my RWD BMW on a wet summers day, slippage was there, but nothing life threatening and quite manageable.
I honestly think it would have taken me 5x as long to get home on Summers in a 2wd car. What was been hair raising to everyone else was quite enjoyable.


PS: Just picked up 4x BMW 17" OEM Alloys and 4x part-worn 245-17 Pirelli Winters in Autodepot for EUR400 inc fitting and balancing. The Alloys dont even look half bad, will be fitted on a 535d Touring.

Spook_ie

Hmmmm, some very interesting points and conflictimg advice on here, so I'm going to throw my 2c worth in.

After having been working the last 7 nights, mainly in North County Dublin and City centre, most people would be far better to go down the supermarket, buy some eggs and stick the egg shells on to the pedals and then try to drive without crushing the egg shells. Too many people on here seem to be giving the impression that Winter tyres will be the solution to all the problems, where as, I think a lot less boot and any tyre with a decent tread depth would solve most of it.

Biglad

You are right Spook, just back from a trip in to letterkenny and there are still peeps that "fly" in these conditions, not surprisingly quite a few "young ones" in packed A4's or Corolla's, must be great to be indestructable.

Your theory with the egg shells stands but works even better in combination with winter tyres. You can't compensate for different rubber compound and tread profile with just your feet. Adapting your style of driving will contribute a lot to road safety though.

MarkoC

Spook_ie wrote: »

Too many people on here seem to be giving the impression that Winter tyres will be the solution to all the problems, where as, I think a lot less boot and any tyre with a decent tread depth would solve most of it.

So stick with your 8mm summer tyres I would go any day with 4mm second hand winters and i bet people who had experiences with it will back me up.
The picture you posted is true but missing something ... another picture wheres comparison to summer tyres. It also points at SNOW not ice.
So if you live in mountains, get new tyres if you just average Joe on ice, you can go with 2nd hand tyres without any issues and you have nearly the same grip on ice like with new winter tyres

GTE

Spook_ie

Absolutely under no circumstances would I agree with you that a Summer tyre would be better than or negate the need to have Mountain and Snowflake spec tyre in the weather we are having now.

The notion that simply tread depth is what is key is ridiculous. There very may well be a drop off in snow performance of winters when the tread reaches a certain stage but it absolutely does not mean in any way shape or form that a Summer tyre with greater tread depth is better. I would be confident to think that if you had a graph for summer tyres it would show a similar decline in wet weather performance. All that would be saying is that our legal limit for tread depth needs reviewing.

It most certainly has been mentioned in this forum that the main reason why Winter spec tyres are better for the Winter is because the Winter has cold roads even if it never snows or ices up.

The compound of the rubber in a Winter tyre is designed to suit Winter conditions which are fundamentally cold roads.

The compound of the rubber in a Summer tyre is designed to suit Summer conditions which are fundamentally warm roads.

When you take a Winter spec tyre off the snow it does not mean you are in Summer spec territory. Only temperature can dictate this.

For all the junk we read here about Fog lights I can only dream that people take the term Winter as literally.
Fog lights are for Fog
Winter spec tyres are for Winter.
Winter does not equal snow.

Once again I want to repeat how much I absolutly disagree with your post. Its madness to say that a worn down Winter is worse then a new Summer for our roads right now. Even if I never meet any snow I would want to be on winter specs because of the road temps.

tossy

Spook_ie wrote: »

Too many people on here seem to be giving the impression that Winter tyres will be the solution to all the problems, where as, I think a lot less boot and any tyre with a decent tread depth would solve most of it.

I simply can't agree with any of that sorry,probably one of the most misleading posts in this thread.

If you are on an incline (or indeed level car park as i witnessed recently) for example and on summer tyres on a rwd car you can give it as much 'lot less boot' as you like but you just won't go anywhere.

tossy

Winter tyre prices seem to have gone crazy (supply and demand is alive and kicking)

Around a month ago when i ordered my 205/50/17 vredestein wintrac extremes from alloywheels.ie for 170 euro a corner eiretyres were looking for 180 euro a corner,i just check their site now and they are looking for 271e a corner!! crazy stuff!

Spook_ie

bbk wrote: »

Spook_ie

Absolutely under no circumstances would I agree with you that a Summer tyre would be better than or negate the need to have Mountain and Snowflake spec tyre in the weather we are having now.

The notion that simply tread depth is what is key is ridiculous. There very may well be a drop off in snow performance of winters when the tread reaches a certain stage but it absolutely does not mean in any way shape or form that a Summer tyre with greater tread depth is better. I would be confident to think that if you had a graph for summer tyres it would show a similar decline in wet weather performance. All that would be saying is that our legal limit for tread depth needs reviewing.

It most certainly has been mentioned in this forum that the main reason why Winter spec tyres are better for the Winter is because the Winter has cold roads even if it never snows or ices up.

The compound of the rubber in a Winter tyre is designed to suit Winter conditions which are fundamentally cold roads.

The compound of the rubber in a Summer tyre is designed to suit Summer conditions which are fundamentally warm roads.

When you take a Winter spec tyre off the snow it does not mean you are in Summer spec territory. Only temperature can dictate this.

For all the junk we read here about Fog lights I can only dream that people take the term Winter as literally.
Fog lights are for Fog
Winter spec tyres are for Winter.
Winter does not equal snow.

Once again I want to repeat how much I absolutly disagree with your post. Its madness to say that a worn down Winter is worse then a new Summer for our roads right now. Even if I never meet any snow I would want to be on winter specs because of the road temps.

Actualy I never said it would or wouldn't, what I did say was that the majority of problems that I see on the road would be alleviated by " Driver sense" and " sufficent tread " to read the thread one would think that the majority of people advocate Winter Tyres as the magical panacea that will cure all their winter driving problems and it quite simply won't.

An idiot on winter tyres will still be an idiot

MarkoC

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actualy I never said it would or wouldn't, what I did say was that the majority of problems that I see on the road would be alleviated by " Driver sense" and " sufficent tread " to read the thread one would think that the majority of people advocate Winter Tyres as the magical panacea that will cure all their winter driving problems and it quite simply won't.

An idiot on winter tyres will still be an idiot

You are wrong again here, winter tyres will solve the majority of peoples troubles in winter time, idiots do crash also in summer time. Or you trying to say that majority of people are idiots and dont need winter tyres ?
Thats how your statement sounds to me ...:rolleyes:

Matt Simis

Yeah, while its not exactly the message we are advocating, virtually all the (winter weather) problems associated with stupidity and lack of understanding of the conditions on the road would be indirectly solved by Winter tyres. You can argue if everyone put the time and effort in to learn how to drive better thats a "better thing", but back here in the real world, simply getting people to fit appropriate tyres for the season would be a vast improvement to all our safety.

Now if we could only get the so called professionals on the radio to stop poo-pooing Winter tyres, we would be on the right track.

Spook_ie

MarkoC wrote: »

You are wrong again here, winter tyres will solve the majority of peoples troubles in winter time, idiots do crash also in summer time. Or you trying to say that majority of people are idiots and dont need winter tyres ?
Thats how your statement sounds to me ...:rolleyes:

So you're saying that winter tyres for everybody will make everybody better at driving in winter? I think not and if you do, well, sorry, but I think you're due for a rude awakening, hopefully it will only be someones dignity that gets hurt rather than anyone suffering physical pain!

MarkoC

Spook_ie wrote: »

So you're saying that winter tyres for everybody will make everybody better at driving in winter? I think not and if you do, well, sorry, but I think you're due for a rude awakening, hopefully it will only be someones dignity that gets hurt rather than anyone suffering physical pain!

Oh my god ..Answer for you question is YES, well, not better driver but way safer driver. And i think if you not sliding on the motorway at 20km/h but are able to drive normally 80km/h without any issues, you are better driver, not so skilled but mentally defenately as you made effort to be safer driver.
Like i said, who is an idiot, is also idiot in summer, doesnt matter what season it is. Here 12 over 40y of age people crashed yesterday morning at speeds 10km/h t0 40km/h ... Yeah you saying theyr all idiots. Im saying if they had winter tyres they wouldnt crash.
And your story with the eggs is just funny, they dont work on black ice, trust me

BostonB

I think winter tyres would improve the situation no end. That said, I skipped most of the traffic jams (around the city) recently, by taking the very slippy back roads and just driving carefully.

GTE

Spook_ie wrote: »

Actualy I never said it would or wouldn't, what I did say was that the majority of problems that I see on the road would be alleviated by " Driver sense" and " sufficent tread " to read the thread one would think that the majority of people advocate Winter Tyres as the magical panacea that will cure all their winter driving problems and it quite simply won't.

An idiot on winter tyres will still be an idiot

You are telling me about a thought you had after reading the thread.
I am telling you a thought I have about your post.

To me you are clearly saying, taking the driver competency out of the equation, that a new Summer tyre is better then a worn Winter (above 1.6mm tread depth) in the current conditions.

This is wrong.

We are in the season of Winter.
Even when you take the driver competency back into the equation the bottom line is the Summer tyre is not suitable for the Winter.
A lot of cars on the road have tyres that very simply DO NOT WORK in the season of Winter.

Fitting these cars with tyres that work in this season quite simply will solve most of if not all the problems that drivers face in these conditions when these problems are not derived from a drivers incompetence.

Once again, to hint at the idea that someone with a Summer tyre with good tread depth is suitable for these conditions is nonsense. Utter nonsense.

On the matter of driving competency it has been widely posted and accepted that people who dont know how to or are not confident with driving in conditions should not be driving on the road.

With that said discussions about tyres have to be made with the mindset that people who drive on the roads in this forum and fine with driving in these conditions. There is no point making provisions in threads for the idiots. We dont in the Summer do we? To say that people who are not confident in driving in these conditions need Winter tyres to fix it is a load of BS. They should not be on the road in the first place.

kennyb3

tossy wrote: »

I simply can't agree with any of that sorry,probably one of the most misleading posts in this thread.

If you are on an incline (or indeed level car park as i witnessed recently) for example and on summer tyres on a rwd car you can give it as much 'lot less boot' as you like but you just won't go anywhere.

16inch dunlops i bought friday are now 50e more a tyre. not a saving really(as were prob cheaper again a month ago) but still happy

JJJJNR

Winter tires are excellent, but when your stuck on ICE I don't think you can beat the brutality of chains. Finding that out the hard way..

sponge_bob

was looking for two wintwr tyres for the van during the week and they couldn't be got. i use the same tyre centre for all my tyres car, van, machinery so the girl in the office done a good bit of ringing around for me and nothing. she also said that there might be no more to be got for the winter as any new stock coming in from now on won't include winter tyres. bit of a bummer really, guess i will be in early for them next year:(

opinion guy

sponge_bob wrote: »

she also said that there might be no more to be got for the winter as any new stock coming in from now on won't include winter tyres. bit of a bummer really, guess i will be in early for them next year:(

Jesus with business practices like that no wonder we are in recession. Never ceases to amaze me the arrogance of vendors in the car industry over here. They obviously don't like money

Matt Simis

Autodepot has them coming in all the time, new and used. I must have posted this about 20 times now.

sponge_bob

Matt Simis wrote: »

Autodepot has them coming in all the time, new and used. I must have posted this about 20 times now.

autodepot you say:rolleyes:

i will have a google for them....cheers

tossy

Matt Simis wrote: »

Autodepot has them coming in all the time, new and used. I must have posted this about 20 times now.

Yes plus Alloywheels in blanch are doing them,i think the have a few specials gonig too,i might not have psoted it 20 times but defo a few times lol

Spook_ie

bbk wrote: »

You are telling me about a thought you had after reading the thread.
I am telling you a thought I have about your post.

To me you are clearly saying, taking the driver competency out of the equation, that a new Summer tyre is better then a worn Winter (above 1.6mm tread depth) in the current conditions.

This is wrong.

We are in the season of Winter.
Even when you take the driver competency back into the equation the bottom line is the Summer tyre is not suitable for the Winter.
A lot of cars on the road have tyres that very simply DO NOT WORK in the season of Winter.

Fitting these cars with tyres that work in this season quite simply will solve most of if not all the problems that drivers face in these conditions when these problems are not derived from a drivers incompetence.

Once again, to hint at the idea that someone with a Summer tyre with good tread depth is suitable for these conditions is nonsense. Utter nonsense.

On the matter of driving competency it has been widely posted and accepted that people who dont know how to or are not confident with driving in conditions should not be driving on the road.

With that said discussions about tyres have to be made with the mindset that people who drive on the roads in this forum and fine with driving in these conditions. There is no point making provisions in threads for the idiots. We dont in the Summer do we? To say that people who are not confident in driving in these conditions need Winter tyres to fix it is a load of BS. They should not be on the road in the first place.

The recommendation for tread depth in winter (regardless of type of tyre) is 4mm, now given the choice I would still go for a new set of tyres over a set of winters with less than 4mm of tread.

As to taking the competence of the driver out of the equation that's one of the things I'm trying to point out, you can't take the competence out because it's there ( or not! ), so everyone saying stick winter tyres on they'll get/keep you out of trouble is living in a fantasy world!
put it another way, which would you prefer to be oncoming in the middle of the road towards you.

1 A driver who's read this thread and stuck on a set of part worn winters but is incompetent

2 A driver who is competent and has his new run of the mill tyres on

I know which I'd prefer

BostonB

The point is which do you prefer coming towards you,

average Joe with winters

average Joe with summers

BostonB

Whats the best all season that gets closest to the winters approx.

Seán_B

sponge_bob wrote: »

was looking for two wintwr tyres for the van during the week and they couldn't be got. i use the same tyre centre for all my tyres car, van, machinery so the girl in the office done a good bit of ringing around for me and nothing. she also said that there might be no more to be got for the winter as any new stock coming in from now on won't include winter tyres. bit of a bummer really, guess i will be in early for them next year:(

Sponge Bob - if you do find winter tyres, you need 4 tyres not 2! If you put 2 winter tyres on the van you'll find it will be very unstable under braking/cornering.

Think of it like walking up a slippery slope, one foot in a slipper and the other in a hiking boot.

So, if anyone is thinking of changing to winter tyres - it all or nothing!

GTE

Spook_ie wrote: »

1 A driver who's read this thread and stuck on a set of part worn winters but is incompetent

2 A driver who is competent and has his new run of the mill tyres on

My simple point is that it is already regarded here that people who dont know how to drive should not be on the road. So here we talk under the provisions that we are all decent drivers. It is said more then enough that bad driver should piss off. Even at that you will never be able to tell a driver that he or she is bad until they get a license taken off them.

I would not want to come across someone with new Summers or worn Winters if they are a bad driver. The sad case is that we all have to come across these people so I would happily have them on the Winters as at least when they would have the basic grip on dry, slushy or snowy cold roads.

You are really missing the point that Summers, no matter what tread depth have the wrong compound for the Winter. Even with a meter of tread depth on the Summers the rubber is still rock hard and is just going to skim across the road.

Your posts are highlighting the seemingly Irish only attitude that members here have problems with. The notion that Summers in any condition are good enough for the Winter is just silly. Even a 4mm Winter will still deal with the cold better.

GTE

BostonB wrote: »

Whats the best all season that gets closest to the winters approx.

Hankook Optimo 4S H730
Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons (May have been surpassed by the Vector 5, though I am not familar enough with the Goodyear range to really say if the V5 is a better All Season)

Cormie has a new set which he is liking though I dont know where it rates among the ones I mentioned.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2009-autobild-all-season-tyre-test.htm

Indeed the predecessor to Cormies Quadrac 3 is the 2 (I can only assume) and it doesnt fair as well as the Hankook or Goodyear.

sponge_bob

Seán_B wrote: »

Sponge Bob - if you do find winter tyres, you need 4 tyres not 2! If you put 2 winter tyres on the van you'll find it will be very unstable under braking/cornering.

Think of it like walking up a slippery slope, one foot in a slipper and the other in a hiking boot.

So, if anyone is thinking of changing to winter tyres - it all or nothing!

yeah was wondering about that allright.