EPL Team Of The Decade - Goalkeeers

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

ok, for the people who think its Given, why has the likes of Ferguson or Wenger never gone in for him? just out of curiousity, he has been available at very reasonable money for much of the last decade & both teams have spent a lot of that decade needing to bring in a tp new keeper.

Because when he was available both clubs had a keeper who the manager had confidence in! I wish we had him instead of Almunia!

Mr Alan

when did Lehmann leave? when did Given go to City?

who was Utds goalie before VDS that was so good Given wouldnt have been a huge improvement on, if he's so good?

Bubs101

No Cudicini? was the best keeper in the league when he was at Chelsea and has done very little since then to diminish his reputation. I know his period was short but he did consistently better in that 3 or 4 year period of first team football than most of the names up there

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

when did Lehmann leave? when did Given go to City?

who was Utds goalie before VDS that was so good Given wouldnt have been a huge improvement on, if he's so good?

Lehmann left at the end of 2008 and Given joined a season later, a gap of one year in which Wenger, decided keeping Almunia was better than spending > £8m on a keeper!

Van der Sar joined United in 2005, not sure who was number 1 between him and Barthez!

Mr Alan

its also worth noting that Given has 60 votes in this poll currently.

lehmann didn't even make the shortlist, and VDS 18.

Surely Ferguson or Wenger would would have been in for him if he really was as good as people here seem to think he is.

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

its also worth noting that Given has 60 votes in this poll currently.

lehmann didn't even make the shortlist, and VDS 18.

Surely Ferguson or Wenger would would have been in for him if he really was as good as people here seem to think he is.

Given was also very happy at Newcastle until it all got too **** for even him to stand.

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

its also worth noting that Given has 60 votes in this poll currently.

lehmann didn't even make the shortlist, and VDS 18.

Surely Ferguson or Wenger would would have been in for him if he really was as good as people here seem to think he is.

Lehmann should be in the poll but, that's down to one person who overlooked him for whatever reason. There is of course going to be a certain amount of bias on this forum but, over the last 10 years there hasn't been anyone better in my mind, Friedel second and maybe van der Sar 3rd. It's keeper of the decade not part of it and others would have to be pretty outstanding in their individual parts to make up for years not played!

As for Wenger and Ferguson, Wenger rarely spends money so I'm not surprised there. Ferguson? I don't know, it's possible that he was looking at him and overlooked him for another player or maybe he just felt at the time there was better (value) out there. I don't think that counts against Given's 10 years to be honest! There's also the possibility that Given just didn't want to leave until he eventually did. He continually renewed contracts and stated his desire to play for the club!

Unearthly

I think it's fair to say one of Ferguson's weaknesses is his lack of ability to spot good goalkeepers. He has a terrible record with them.

JPA

Unearthly wrote: »

I think it's fair to say one of Ferguson's weaknesses is his lack of ability to spot good goalkeepers. He has a terrible record with them.

That Danish guy was useless.

Unearthly

JPA wrote: »

That Danish guy was useless.

Well done in picking 1 keeper out of god knows how many.

I'll help you with another smartass - van der sar

staker

Watching a rerun of Spurs/Liverpool 98 on ESPN earlier.
Had forgotten Friedel was stopper at Anfield.

Mitch Connor

Howard wasn't bad either, but yeah - Fergie has a problem trusting keepers, which is his biggest problem imo

JPA

Unearthly wrote: »

Well done in picking 1 keeper out of god knows how many.

I'll help you with another smartass - van der sar

Schmeichel and VDS cover a large chunk of his time there though. Barthez was decent as well I thought until he went a bit mental.

Super-Rush

Sorry folks but the exclusion of Jens Lehmann is purely a mistake on my behalf. I've only read through the replies just now and noticed it sorry again.

PHB

To those who think that this isnt' an Irish bias, who do you think would get it if it was a poll run on a UK forum?

CHD

PHB wrote: »

To those who think that this isnt' an Irish bias, who do you think would get it if it was a poll run on a UK forum?

David James. He has played at nearly every club so all those fans will vote for him.

Pighead

PHB wrote: »

To those who think that this isnt' an Irish bias, who do you think would get it if it was a poll run on a UK forum?

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=10&ved=0CCYQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neoseeker.com%2Fforums%2F40523%2Ft1301270-premierships-best-goalkeeper%2F&rct=j&q=best+goalkeeper+in+the+premiership&ei=uA5FS8HvFM_C4gbu4J2fAw&usg=AFQjCNFaalbiYbWThKeJcRopT4kwkpW0Kw

Yep, still Given.

The Volt

Pighead wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=10&ved=0CCYQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.neoseeker.com%2Fforums%2F40523%2Ft1301270-premierships-best-goalkeeper%2F&rct=j&q=best+goalkeeper+in+the+premiership&ei=uA5FS8HvFM_C4gbu4J2fAw&usg=AFQjCNFaalbiYbWThKeJcRopT4kwkpW0Kw

Yep, still Given.

Lots of Newcastle fans on there mate

Pighead

Voltwad wrote: »

Lots of Newcastle fans on there mate

There's plenty of other examples. That was just the first one I found! It amazes me how PHB can't fathom how Given is a very real contender for best goalkeeper in the Premiership. Even those dopey wrestling fans can see it!

http://wrestlingclique.com/european-sports/114390-best-goalkeeper-premier-league.html

Mr Alan

first ones a nice find, did you count up the votes, seems pretty close between Reina & Given to me. with some votes just a list of quality keepers. very scientific stuff.

i especially like the bit where they talk about how Valdes isn't Spanish & plays for a country called Catalonia. clued in bunch over there.

Mr Alan

here's a poll from goal.com & Given doesnt even make the short list for the best in the world.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

first ones a nice find, did you count up the votes, seems pretty close between Reina & Given to me. with some votes just a list of quality keepers. very scientific stuff.

i especially like the bit where they talk about how Valdes isn't Spanish & plays for a country called Catalonia. clued in bunch over there.

I'm pretty sure if a member of their forum spent a day reading the boards soccer forum they'd be feeling pretty self satisfied, smug and superior too. (No offence, bayviewclose)

JPA

Mr Alan wrote: »

first ones a nice find, did you count up the votes, seems pretty close between Reina & Given to me. with some votes just a list of quality keepers. very scientific stuff.

i especially like the bit where they talk about how Valdes isn't Spanish & plays for a country called Catalonia. clued in bunch over there.

That's kinda true.
And people didn't vote for Reina because he wasn't in the league long enough.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

here's a poll from goal.com & Given doesnt even make the short list for the best in the world.

No link there buddy.

Listen, Given got into the PFA Team of the Year twice in the last decade. Only Van Der Sar can match that record. Now I'm pretty sure that the Irish public have no sway as to who gets on to that team so for PHB to say that he's not rated in England is nonsense.

SlickRic

Mr Alan wrote: »

its also worth noting that Given has 60 votes in this poll currently.

lehmann didn't even make the shortlist, and VDS 18.

Surely Ferguson or Wenger would would have been in for him if he really was as good as people here seem to think he is.

the margin of victory will be ludicrous. absolutely. no question. can't argue with that whatsoever.

i've personally acknowledged that already.

but i really don't understand why Given would not be considered by anybody as very high up there in the running for the best keeper of the last 10 years, and indeed one of the ones worthy of winning it. i honestly don't.

it can only be people being contrary as f*ck; that's the only conclusion i can come to.

Mr Alan

http://wwww.goal.com/en-india/news/2292/editorials/2009/12/21/1706962/goalcom-player-of-the-decade-goalkeeper

thats a different one. but i'm sure you can find the one with more nominees that didnt have him in it either, being the master of the search function

btw, i'm not saying he is not a quality keeper, just not the best of the decade in England.

Mr Alan

and btw, the wrestling forum?! where'd ya find that ****e!

the poll contains a total of 15 votes. 7 of which go to Given.

funnily enough, 3 people who voted for him are Irish & the another is a City fan, who co-incidently, didn't rate him until he signed for City!

really scrapping the bottom of the barrell there Pighead

L'prof

Mr Alan wrote: »

and btw, the wrestling forum?! where'd ya find that ****e!

the poll contains a total of 15 votes. 7 of which go to Given.

funnily enough, 3 people who voted for him are Irish & the another is a City fan, who co-incidently, didn't rate him until he signed for City!

really scrapping the bottom of the barrell there Pighead

Let's just compare your choice:

Mr Alan wrote: »

its a tough call.

based on clean sheets etc, it'd have to be Reina, although there has been busier goalkeepers who are brilliant, but imo it takes a really top keeper to be at one of the top teams as its a test of concentration & mental strength more so than at a midtable team where you're leathered with shots at you.

for me its between Reina & VDS with Reina the less mistake prone of the two.

With the runaway leader, Given.

I think the main factor is that Reina has only been in the league half as long as Given this decade and so would have had to have been a considerably stronger keeper to beat him for keeper of the decade but, he actually wasn't!

Mr Alan

see in my opinion, he was was considerably better.

he commands his box excellently, and his distribution is second to none-really amazig at times.

while being AT LEAST Givens equal in the shot stopping stakes.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

and btw, the wrestling forum?! where'd ya find that ****e!

the poll contains a total of 15 votes. 7 of which go to Given.

funnily enough, 3 people who voted for him are Irish & the another is a City fan, who co-incidently, didn't rate him until he signed for City!

really scrapping the bottom of the barrell there Pighead

Ok I admit they weren't the most conclusive links in the world and there was a bit of barrel scraping throwing out that wrestling link (:o) but the point remains that he is rated in England and it is not ridiculous for anybody to think that he was the best keeper in the past decade. What about the PFA Team of the Year accolades? That's top of the barrell stuff there surely?

Mr Alan

i agree, he is a quality keeper.

just knew he'd walk this poll & didn't think he should, thats all.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

i agree, he is a quality keeper.

just knew he'd walk this poll & didn't think he should, thats all.

No problem with that at all Mr Alan. You're fully entitled to your view.

Pighead was more responding to PHB's rather smarmy post from earlier on where he made it sound as if there was more chance of Busted being voted Band of the Decade than Given being best goalkeeper.

PHB wrote: »

I'm sorry, but people clearly haven't a clue what they are talking about.

Mr Alan

PHB went over the top imo, but he is right on given being weak (at best, very very average) at commanding his defence, coming to collect crosses & distribution. these are vital things for a top goalie imo.

Xavi6

Mr Alan wrote: »

PHB went over the top imo, but he is right on given being weak (at best, very very average) at commanding his defence, coming to collect crosses & distribution. these are vital things for a top goalie imo.

I'm still waiting on someone to tell me how they know he is bad at organising his defence. The only accusation we've had is that he what at fault for the defenders in from of him being crap. And this thing about poor distribution is rubbish. Seriously, if you are going to make statements criticising his attributes then at least explain how you have come to that conclusion.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Xavi6

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sorry mate, just that most of the criticisms have been completely baseless. You did make a fair enough point though.

PHB

What more can you say than that you think he is bad at this and that? I think Lennon is a clueless chicken at times, would you like me to produce 15 video examples to prove it? Given is average at kicking. Nobody would disagree with that. He is bad at crosses, prone to a flap or two. Organising the defence is just something I've noticed, can't prove it beyond what I think at it.

A poll from a Newcastle site and another with a sample size of 13, nice.

I'm not denying Given isn't in the top 10, indeed, there's no doubt he should be on this list. But he looks good because he's an extremely active keeper.

There are other extremely active keepers out there, Carson for example, who aren't as good as Given.

The argument is very simple. When world class shot stoppers (which Given is), play in a team with a weak defence, they appear much better than they are. They are constantly making amazing saves, because they've so much opportunity. They make a mistake, nobody really remembers it. I wager you an awful lot of people on this forum can't remember the last mistake Given made, but if I asked for you a mistake VDS made, the entire world thinks of the Champions League.

Why? Because its way way way more important if top class keepers make mistakes, and the best, make practically ****ing none!

And of course I don't know what he'd be like with a solid defence in front of him, he's never had it. I've no idea how many goals I'd score with Rooney and Scholes feeding me, but I'm pretty sure its a low number. But sure I've never been there, so how do you know that?

Ultimately, and this is what seals it for me, is that Man Utd and Arsenal have had massive trouble with keepers over the years, massive. Yet they never moved for him. Why do people really think this is? Why does nobody think this is?

Given is going to have a nice career. He'll be City's goalkeepers for another 2-3 years, where the defense gets better and better, but are still not top class. He'll be a very active keeper, making top class save again and again, and will then retire. He'll never win a league or a CL though, ever. And while medals aren't everything, they are something.

Ultimately, I wouldn't want Given at United. VDS has been better. I doubt Liverpool fans would want Given either, Reina has been better. I doubt that pre-injury, Chelsea fans would have wanted everything else.

And if this really is the case, then the PL has had some fairly poor standard keepers in the past decade, because there's nobody on the planet, I hope, who thinks that Given is in the same league as Casillas or Buffon.

L'prof

PHB wrote: »

there's nobody on the planet, I hope, who thinks that Given is in the same league as Casillas or Buffon.

No but, I don't think Reina and van der Sar are either!

Spiritoftheseventies

jasonorr wrote: »

No but, I don't think Reina and van der Sar are either!

Funnily enough John Bradley an LFC commentator who is a city fan said Given was a bit jelly wristed. Compared to incidents where Pepe saved a point blank save against Stuart Dowing and the goal that Given let in against Sunderland from same distance. Fair comment?

SlickRic

bayviewclose wrote: »

Compared to incidents where Pepe saved a point blank save against Stuart Dowing and the goal that Given let in against Sunderland from same distance. Fair comment?

one incident does not a bad/good keeper make.

ffs.

that's like saying Emile Heskey is a better striker than Robbie Fowler because Fowler missed a penalty once, but Emile Heskey lobbed someone from 30 yards.

ludicrous argument.

Spiritoftheseventies

SlickRic wrote: »

one incident does not a bad/good keeper make.

ffs.

that's like saying Emile Heskey is a better striker than Robbie Fowler because Fowler missed a penalty once, but Emile Heskey lobbed someone from 30 yards.

ludicrous argument.

Quite like that phrase Jelly Wristed though. Will come in handy in future

SlickRic

bayviewclose wrote: »

Quite like that phrase Jelly Wristed though. Will come in handy in future

agreed.

beautiful tabloidism.

you won't be using it about Given very often though.

Spiritoftheseventies

SlickRic wrote: »

agreed.

beautiful tabloidism.

you won't be using it about Given very often though.

No Given a good shot stopper. But on current form would you place him above Reina who i think is player of the season material for us at this stage

flahavaj

I have a bit of a problem with this phrase thats bandied about: "good shot-stopper."

FFS these are Premier League goalkeepers we're talking about, they have no business whatsoever being goalkepers if they're NOT good shot stoppers.

Always makes me worry about a the keeper who's branded a "good shot-stopper", its almost as if its acknowledgement that theres some other flawe in his game such as decision making or concentration thats not up to scratch.

Case in point: David James - "good shot stopper."

Mitch Connor

bayviewclose wrote: »

No Given a good shot stopper. But on current form would you place him above Reina who i think is player of the season material for us at this stage

yeah - but this is a vote on the decade, not current form.

Spiritoftheseventies

Mitch Connor wrote: »

yeah - but this is a vote on the decade, not current form.

Very low vote for Reina all things considered . No way should there be that big a gap between him and Given and even with Van der Saar.

flahavaj

bayviewclose wrote: »

Very low vote for Reina all things considered . No way should there be that big a gap between him and Given and even with Van der Saar.

True, but totally unsurprising also.

Mitch Connor

bayviewclose wrote: »

Very low vote for Reina all things considered . No way should there be that big a gap between him and Given and even with Van der Saar.

i think the fact Given and VDS have been in the Prem for the entire decade (or very close to it) put them way ahead in a Decade based vote. For last season, or this season I would say it would and should be differnt, but over a decade, I do think the fact Reina has only been here for half that time counts against him in a big way.

Super-Rush

Right this can be closed now. The winner is Shay Given:eek:

Tomorrow will be for the right back position.

flahavaj

super-rush wrote: »

Right this can be closed now. The winner is Shay Given:eek:

Tomorrow will be for the right back position.

Walkover.