New Planet X TT Bike: The EXOCET

blorg

Lighten up dreadzedan, I actually own two Planet Xes myself as does half of this forum. Great bikes for the money, you will not get better either at or indeed near their pricepoint. IMO certainly race worthy and will not be the factor holding you back (that would be the rider.) Tunney has his views on Planet X and I have my own views on Tunney's views on Planet X too.

You say you are not an employee but you seem to have a lot of inside information on the new bike. Would you by any chance be a sponsored rider? I saw the new Nano at Stamullen with the new lighter carbon wheels and must say both looked a lot better in the flesh. All PXes seem to; they should probably get a professional photo shoot done.

dreadzedan

blorg wrote: »

Lighten up dreadzedan, I actually own two Planet Xes myself as does half of this forum. Great bikes for the money, you will not get better either at or indeed near their pricepoint. IMO certainly race worthy and will not be the factor holding you back (that would be the rider.) Tunney has his views on Planet X and I have my own views on Tunney's views on Planet X too.

You say you are not an employee but you seem to have a lot of inside information on the new bike. Would you by any chance be a sponsored rider? I saw the new Nano at Stamullen with the new lighter carbon wheels and must say both looked a lot better in the flesh. All PXes seem to; they should probably get a professional photo shoot done.

No worries buddy,
Exactly how i feel cant get better at that price point to performance ratio. was just saying to the guy to criticise constructively. bring valid points that would make a REAL actual price to performance difference, and don't suggest do thing because the big boys do it (automatically best ever), PX has scientist too. and don't diss cause its a PX and it is cheaper. and say the big boys are automatically better, by default. people need to be more objective.
I do agree with you on the part where things looks better in the flesh which is true, and a professional photo shoot will not hurt.:)
I as natural for me sceptical about new products no matter the brand until i saw the test article and some half decent photos of the bike.
http://issuu.com/planetx/docs/testing_times_december
Page 9
This bike will the best bike PX have, and it will be darn good.
Better wind tunnel aero-performance than a 2010 top of the line unnamed competitor TT bike adjustible wheelbase etc, internal routing (not the best ever but good enough)as opposed to PX stealth's none etc? i mean come on you gotta be happy for this too:D
Credit is due.

lescol

A love in or a hater. Hell, I'll end up either selling the Planet X or getting a can of spray paint and covering the graphics. Please, please Mr Boardman, or any other manufacturer can you take over the bike I love/hate mantle.

dreadzedan

At the end of the day if you strip all the paint and logos off the top of the line TTbikes and line them up, they will all look pretty similar and generic and a fight would start, Felt Kouta, Cervelo, Trek etc, designers of these top-bikes dont go for form but rather funtion, they dont care if their bike looks kinda sorta like the competition, as long as it is aerodynamically better that is enough:D
if there was to be a thread on who coppied who, it would go on literally forever. all bikes at the end of the day, that is just how bikes are.
Dont let a logo and silly sales propaganda make a bike, let the ride and performance do that.

lescol

Oh God help me, new rule for me is to stay away from Planet X threads.

Diarmuid

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

if I ever needed to buy a TT bike

go on Dirk you know you want to!

DirkVoodoo

Diarmuid wrote: »

go on Dirk you know you want to!

Actually, I was just in Joe Daly's and saw a second han (I think) Trek Madone identical to yours (56cm though, is that a bit big for you?). You aren't selling it are you??

blorg

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Actually, I was just in Joe Daly's and saw a second han (I think) Trek Madone identical to yours (56cm though, is that a bit big for you?). You aren't selling it are you??

Is this a Madone or a TT bike?

DirkVoodoo

blorg wrote: »

Is this a Madone or a TT bike?

Just a Madone I'm afraid, although it was 7 meters away from all the other road bikes.

Diarmuid

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Actually, I was just in Joe Daly's and saw a second han (I think) Trek Madone identical to yours (56cm though, is that a bit big for you?). You aren't selling it are you??

snap. I was there at 7:30 too. Picked up a pair of shorts. Was that the white Madone 6.9? I'm afraid it's much bigger and WAY more expensive than mine.

DirkVoodoo

Diarmuid wrote: »

snap. I was there at 7:30 too. Picked up a pair of shorts. Was that the white Madone 6.9? I'm afraid it's much bigger and WAY more expensive than mine.

Yeah I think so, same colour scheme as yours no? Full Dura Ace 7800? Looked really good. I must have missed you by 20 minutes so, just like the time trial all over again

TinyExplosions

blorg wrote: »

You say you are not an employee but you seem to have a lot of inside information on the new bike. Would you by any chance be a sponsored rider? I saw the new Nano at Stamullen with the new lighter carbon wheels and must say both looked a lot better in the flesh. All PXes seem to; they should probably get a professional photo shoot done.

Any info he's coming up with is stuff that's around the other fora (bikeradar and timetriallingforum.co.uk). Certainly, he's not said anything that I haven't come across before.

We could do with better PX lovers on this forum -maybe we need to get Dave from Planet X to join and dispel some of the myths

tunney

dreadzedan wrote: »

You obviously do not know what internal cable routing means or even the word internal.
Wow a picture of a concept trek that will prolly cost 6x more and is just a concept? you linked me a pic of scott in a shot where the cables are mostly hidden and off to the other side in the picture(showed you a pic of that same bike with the cables hanging), and a pic of a cervolo which i already showed you does indeed have long doggy cables, and it even shows in the frontal shot of the bike in the link you showed me.:D

http://www.scott-sports.com/service/files/images/news/upload/image/%20bike08/plasma2_2.jpg
looke here

i showed you all of these bikes that you quoted all wired up and with doggy hangings lol. btw some handlebars can be bought with internal cable routing if you want, so your gear cables hanging arguement is moot.
i can see big long ugly cable shooting out of that cervelo from the frontal shot and the scott bike has hangings as i showed you in an actually real life pic of a set up scott , dont get me wrong i like the mentioned bikes but seriously.

dreadzedan wrote: »

All the bikes I posted have three cables routed BEHIND the headset. Yours has one. The other two dangling out.

You speak of the rear brake cables, all bikes with rear brakes in that position have some cable showing there too.
and to shoot you down on that, this bike has been tested against an unamed bike with that same lower hidden aero brake design and it has achieved better aerodynamic figures that the unnamed bike they tested it against, maybe its your precious trek. it sucks that an OBSOLETE design outdid your modern design inst it? they avoided doing unnecessary crap as to not justify, retarded overpricing.

I never mentioned hidden rear brakes. Its widely accepted that this does not work if the brake is below the BB - this is clean air.

dreadzedan wrote: »

This PX is lighter stiffer and stronger than the old PX stealth TT so what now?
This bike is in a totally different category from the old Planet-X

WTF?

dreadzedan wrote: »

The extremely overpriced prices paid for your big brands cannot be justified fullstop. i know plp who buy Expensive Pinarello Dogma road bikes and are sorely dissapointed when other guys build cheaper lighter better bikes in the real world than it. all they have to go on is that "i have a pinarello" which does not account for anything really except for the muddying of the brand name.

My TT bike is expensive but thats nothing to do with the frame, more the SRMs

dreadzedan wrote: »

I am sure this bike will ride and be as good if not better than alot of your precious big brands, and weather you like it or not the Planet-X stealth was a marvellous bike and received many bike of the year awards and always got high reviews, from riders and professional reviewers.

http://issuu.com/planetx/docs/testing_times_december

did you even look at or read page 9 of this article or are you too afraid to.

Wow a review in an online unknown publication. Again however this entire discussion is about cables being routed in the dirty air behind the head tube rather than hanging out to the side in clean air.

dreadzedan wrote: »

Stop looking at your precious emblems and names and just ride the bike.
I am sure when this comes out and you get the chance to ride one your will either be pissed that it feels and rides as good or better than your overpriced bike or be happy and say wow this is nicer than i expected:cool: i will give credit where it is due and not just to a brand name.

Try harder you are not very convincing, in your views.

I seriously doubt it will ride better than my bike as its the position that counts and I bought my bike based on that and its the perfect fit for me.


Just show me *one* PX photo where the rear brake and both gear cables are routed behind the headset. Until then - really shut it. This discussion was about behind the headset cable routing.

tunney

dreadzedan wrote: »

It must be admitted and will be that this bike will perform very well for its pricing, so what if it may feel as good as a more expensive frame it happens all the time even in the automotive industry.

Why must it be admitted? I don't see any independent reviews on the bike, no magazine reviews, no honest rider reviews nothing.

I've ridden the other PXs, I didn't like them. I haven't and won't pass review on the ride of this PX until I do. This whole bl00dy discussion is about the BEHIND THE HEADSET ROUTING. Amazingly I don't need to ride it to see that it doesn't have as many cables routed in the dirty air as other frames on the market. Address this point and stop makin up others.

tunney

dreadzedan wrote: »

This bike will the best bike PX have, and it will be darn good.
Better wind tunnel aero-performance than a 2010 top of the line unnamed competitor TT bike adjustible wheelbase etc, internal routing (not the best ever but good enough)as opposed to PX stealth's none etc? i mean come on you gotta be happy for this too:D
Credit is due.

When I see the PX continually come second in the wind tunnel data from its competitors I'll believe it. Topping your own data means nothing.

Look at the Kestrel data - their "stock bike" had better numbers than the stock P3. But wait they just happen to have a stock bike with a disc, deep section front, fancy aero bars and the rest. The P3 was actually stock.

Lumen

As has been discussed on the other PX threads, they are moving into uncertain territory with the new range of bikes (Nano and Exocet).

Whatever about the Pro, the Stealth was so cheap (relatively) that it didn't matter that it had an outdated design - it was a complete no-brainer (I think mine was £900 ish for a complete bike). From my perspective it was a great starter bike for TT, as it meant I could get my position completely sorted without having to mess around with my road bikes.

I don't know what the pricing will be for the Exocet, but after a certain point buyers except more than just a plastic rack to hang their wheels on, and the small details start to matter.

I guess as a triathlete Tunney cares more about the details. For your average club racing cyclist a TT bike is far less important - it might only get a couple of outings a season - and money is better spent on the bike you'll race week in week out.

Perhaps PX will just phase out the old models and drop prices on the new ones. I don't know whether production costs are higher for these new models, but a <£1k Exocet would be great value for money regardless of how the cables are routed. But at £2500 or whatever I'm not so sure.

mloc123

Lumen wrote: »

As has been discussed on the other PX threads, they are moving into uncertain territory with the new range of bikes (Nano and Exocet).

Whatever about the Pro, the Stealth was so cheap (relatively) that it didn't matter that it had an outdated design - it was a complete no-brainer (I think mine was £900 ish for a complete bike). From my perspective it was a great starter bike for TT, as it meant I could get my position completely sorted without having to mess around with my road bikes.

I don't know what the pricing will be for the Exocet, but after a certain point buyers except more than just a plastic rack to hang their wheels on, and the small details start to matter.

I guess as a triathlete Tunney cares more about the details. For your average club racing cyclist a TT bike is far less important - it might only get a couple of outings a season - and money is better spent on the bike you'll race week in week out.

Perhaps PX will just phase out the old models and drop prices on the new ones. I don't know whether production costs are higher for these new models, but a <£1k Exocet would be great value for money regardless of how the cables are routed. But at £2500 or whatever I'm not so sure.

The frame alone in the US is $1050, so I would think £800 will be the UK price point.

Lumen

mloc123 wrote: »

The frame alone in the US is $1050, so I would think £800 will be the UK price point.

That would suggest a complete bike price of £1500-£2500 depending on spec. I'm not sure putting bottom end components on an £800 frame makes any sense, so I'm guessing prices will start around £2k.

dreadzedan

tunney wrote: »

When I see the PX continually come second in the wind tunnel data from its competitors I'll believe it. Topping your own data means nothing.

Look at the Kestrel data - their "stock bike" had better numbers than the stock P3. But wait they just happen to have a stock bike with a disc, deep section front, fancy aero bars and the rest. The P3 was actually stock.

I am going to finish here because i conclude that you are really really stupid and you cannot be helped. you do not understand what internal cable routing is, its advantages, disadvantages or anything. you look at the bike saw that the cables along the body of the frame was on the inside, hence internal. they only came outside for the rear brake, eg Cervelo P3, i dont know what 3 cables nonsense you are talking about neither thoes any one else. the bike has the exact same 3 cables upfront as any other bike out there then they go inside to frame and come out at the back.
I have linked you to Issue where a test on the protoype bike was done but you must be petrified to even open it.
In the test it signifies, quote" In San Diego it was compared with all the major competitor frames both the 09 and Current 10 models of a top rated TT bike, The Exocet was measurabley more aerodynamic than both models; Note,the 2010 unamed bike has concealed front and rear breaks and yet the exocet is still more aerodynamic" end quote. Read and STFU i don't make the rules i just tell you as it is.
Quote "It has integrated headset and internal brake and gear cabling" there is even a freaking picture. if you were to go anywhere and say that bikes cables are outside you would be slapped.
Quote" it was more rigid and responsive than the stealth with a very stiff rear end"
"nice smooth lines of the rear end incorporating wheel adjusters to allow the centring of the wheel and shortening of the wheelbase"
"Neat seat cluster and Rear Brake Mouting"

I mean come on open your eyes, you obviously have something against the brandname and not the bike.
Weather you like it or not the Stealth got great reviews and one bike of the year awards. it might not have been the best but it was damn good.

Quote This is the Exocets Designer's philisophy "Good designs beat fashion fads anyday".

This bike has absolutely no more cables showing than any other bike with the same brake set-up,

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/Cervelo-P3C-2008/lg/020_Cervelo_P3C_2008.JPG

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/Cervelo-P3C-2008/lg/009_Cervelo_P3C_2008.JPG

http://www.mundotri.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/p4-internal-cable-routing.png

look same amount of cables with a few hanging, seriously wtf are you talking about.

and to add insult to injury it did not even matter in the wind tunnel since the bike had superior overall aero.

I don't make the rules i just bring you the facts, deal with them.
Nothing you say is conclusive or proves me wrong.


Fly away now

dreadzedan

Lumen wrote: »

As has been discussed on the other PX threads, they are moving into uncertain territory with the new range of bikes (Nano and Exocet).

Whatever about the Pro, the Stealth was so cheap (relatively) that it didn't matter that it had an outdated design - it was a complete no-brainer (I think mine was £900 ish for a complete bike). From my perspective it was a great starter bike for TT, as it meant I could get my position completely sorted without having to mess around with my road bikes.

I don't know what the pricing will be for the Exocet, but after a certain point buyers except more than just a plastic rack to hang their wheels on, and the small details start to matter.

I guess as a triathlete Tunney cares more about the details. For your average club racing cyclist a TT bike is far less important - it might only get a couple of outings a season - and money is better spent on the bike you'll race week in week out.

Perhaps PX will just phase out the old models and drop prices on the new ones. I don't know whether production costs are higher for these new models, but a <£1k Exocet would be great value for money regardless of how the cables are routed. But at £2500 or whatever I'm not so sure.

Tunney is being a dick, dont mid him, i shot down his point and he does not know how to redeem himself that is all,
Check the article that i was trying to get him to read.

http://issuu.com/planetx/docs/testing_times_december
Page 9

The bike has the same style internal cable routing as a P3c i dont know what his problem is. the article clearly shows that the cables are inside the frame along the body lines, no showing any more than a P3 or any other bike with that rear brake setting.
He is picking at little things like no hidden brakes when in fact scientist designed and tested this bike in San Diego against 2009 and 2010 unamed top rated TT bikes with concealed front and rear brakes and it still got better aero figures, all in the article.
This bike is a step above the old PX and it will be a good bike, if he doesn't like PX he should keep it to himself unless the criticism is constructive, not just petty.

Hell even if i had a Scott, i would buy this bike to see how it runs just for the fun of it, you really cant loose with the decent price. $1049, Frame, Fork, Headset and seatpost. and the red black and white paint scheme will rock.

Lumen

dreadzedan wrote: »

Tunney is being a dick, dont mid him, i shot down his point and he does not know how to redeem himself that is all

Whilst I would never doubt Tunney's capacity to overachieve when he puts his mind to something, even in the sphere of being a dick, in this case he did specifically mention cable routing behind the headset, which the Planet-X does not have

dreadzedan

dreadzedan wrote: »

Tunney is being a dick, dont mid him, i shot down his point and he does not know how to redeem himself that is all,
Check the article that i was trying to get him to read.

http://issuu.com/planetx/docs/testing_times_december
Page 9
Read you will not be dissapointed

The bike has the same style internal cable routing as a P3c i dont know what his problem is. the article clearly shows that the cables are inside the frame along the body lines, no showing any more than a P3 or any other bike with that rear brake setting.
He is picking at little things like no hidden brakes when in fact scientist designed and tested this bike in San Diego against 2009 and 2010 unamed top rated TT bikes with concealed front and rear brakes and it still got better aero figures, all in the article.
This bike is a step above the old PX and it will be a good bike, if he doesn't like PX he should keep it to himself unless the criticism is constructive, not just petty.

Hell even if i had a Scott, i would buy this bike to see how it runs just for the fun of it, you really cant loose with the decent price. $1049, Frame, Fork, Headset and seatpost. and the red black and white paint scheme will rock.

This bike covered every detail that matters in the windtunnel or in a race adequately enough and at a killer price point, and he is just mad cause he prolly just bought a much more expensive bike, with no real pheasable advantages except a badge, so he must find little details which he thinks not know will make a big difference despite him knowing nothing about the bike,this friction between competition is nothing to get offended by it happens all the time in all industries, look at PX as the Nissan GTR of the bike world. the underdogs fights to be as good as the big boys for a better price, valiant effort PX cheers to them:)
i am sure he will be mad when he is surrounded by exocets or passed by one, cause at that price point he will most likely have way better gear.

petethedrummer

Somebody is going to have to draw a diagram with circles and pointy arrows to settle this.

mloc123

dreadzedan wrote: »

they only came outside for the rear brake, eg Cervelo P3, i dont know what 3 cables nonsense you are talking about neither thoes any one else.

I do, I'm pretty sure the point he is making is that the 'internal cabling' you are bragging about is the same that is on my now 3 year old TT frame... it enters the frame on the side of the down tube where as on all recently designed frames it is either fully internal or enters behind the headset.

As for the frame itself, its the same open mould that has been floating around for quite a while online. TT233 I think? Can be bought direct from china for about $600 and doesn't have the terrible paint job.

tunney

dreadzedan wrote: »

I am going to finish here because i conclude that you are really really stupid and you cannot be helped. you do not understand what internal cable routing is, its advantages, disadvantages or anything. you look at the bike saw that the cables along the body of the frame was on the inside, hence internal. they only came outside for the rear brake, eg Cervelo P3, i dont know what 3 cables nonsense you are talking about neither thoes any one else. the bike has the exact same 3 cables upfront as any other bike out there then they go inside to frame and come out at the back.
I have linked you to Issue where a test on the protoype bike was done but you must be petrified to even open it.
In the test it signifies, quote" In San Diego it was compared with all the major competitor frames both the 09 and Current 10 models of a top rated TT bike, The Exocet was measurabley more aerodynamic than both models; Note,the 2010 unamed bike has concealed front and rear breaks and yet the exocet is still more aerodynamic" end quote. Read and STFU i don't make the rules i just tell you as it is.
Quote "It has integrated headset and internal brake and gear cabling" there is even a freaking picture. if you were to go anywhere and say that bikes cables are outside you would be slapped.
Quote" it was more rigid and responsive than the stealth with a very stiff rear end"
"nice smooth lines of the rear end incorporating wheel adjusters to allow the centring of the wheel and shortening of the wheelbase"
"Neat seat cluster and Rear Brake Mouting"

I mean come on open your eyes, you obviously have something against the brandname and not the bike.
Weather you like it or not the Stealth got great reviews and one bike of the year awards. it might not have been the best but it was damn good.

Quote This is the Exocets Designer's philisophy "Good designs beat fashion fads anyday".

This bike has absolutely no more cables showing than any other bike with the same brake set-up,

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/Cervelo-P3C-2008/lg/020_Cervelo_P3C_2008.JPG

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/reviews/Cervelo-P3C-2008/lg/009_Cervelo_P3C_2008.JPG

http://www.mundotri.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/p4-internal-cable-routing.png

look same amount of cables with a few hanging, seriously wtf are you talking about.

and to add insult to injury it did not even matter in the wind tunnel since the bike had superior overall aero.

I don't make the rules i just bring you the facts, deal with them.
Nothing you say is conclusive or proves me wrong.


Fly away now

You have brought no relevant facts, no studies, no data, no nothing - some review in an unknown publication means nothing. in fact you've even managed to completely ignore the discussion that was going on, decide you had an agenda to push and ran with it.

The P3c by Cervelos own admission is obselete - hence the P4

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

Whilst I would never doubt Tunney's capacity to overachieve when he puts his mind to something, even in the sphere of being a dick, in this case he did specifically mention cable routing behind the headset, which the Planet-X does not have

Thank you.

This is my sole point. The PX does not have the same style cable routing as modern TT bikes.

dreadzedan

tunney wrote: »

Thank you.

This is my sole point. The PX does not have the same style cable routing as modern TT bikes.

Did it matter in the windtunnel?
This is my point.

mloc123

dreadzedan wrote: »

Did it matter in the windtunnel?
This is my point.

perhaps if you pointed us to the data from this testing?

dreadzedan

mloc123 wrote: »

I do, I'm pretty sure the point he is making is that the 'internal cabling' you are bragging about is the same that is on my now 3 year old TT frame... it enters the frame on the side of the down tube where as on all recently designed frames it is either fully internal or enters behind the headset.

As for the frame itself, its the same open mould that has been floating around for quite a while online. TT233 I think? Can be bought direct from china for about $600 and doesn't have the terrible paint job.

i was just telling him, that i didnt matter in the wind tunnel, and this bike was designed by PX scientists at Sheffield University, and tested in Sandiego.
Dude this is not a windspace frame, i hope you are not another Tunney.
The wind tunnel test proved that the Behind the headset cabling and concealed brakes accounted for nothing against this frame.
http://issuu.com/planetx/docs/testing_times_december page 9 gawd

dreadzedan

mloc123 wrote: »

perhaps if you pointed us to the data from this testing?

perhaps if Cervelo post the wind tunnel data or any other manufacturer for that matter about how their design is superior.