We are in a national crisis, where is our government?

musicfan

djpbarry wrote: »

Was it? I don’t think anyone foresaw this prolonged cold spell (open to correction though).

Around Xmas the tv/radio forecasts were saying it will last a couple of days and around the New Year would be bad. - but this would only last a day or two. Then on the Sat / Sun after New Year, its only going to last until Mon / Tues then a few days later it could last up to a week, the next day it says another week now they are saying its going to snow on Sunday and some news reports are saying the cold spell may last until March.

thecretinhop

what the **** are you talking about? there a lot of tits on this forum I will bugger off out its bad for my blood pressure (by the way put sand and gravel on our roadside today, had to defrost the ****ing sand also) what are the government/rsa/council paid for? why not just leave them off work so and go with that method you either do you job or you dont, we can all contribute but i dont have a gritter truck handy last time i looked, on that im out of here

jmayo

djpbarry wrote: »

The local councils cannot do that themselves? Are people seriously suggesting that we are electing local representatives who we do not deem fit to take on the responsibility of ensuring roads are gritted? Seriously?
Damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t, eh?

Listen I will readily admit I can't stand him or the other sanctimonious twit who claims that mobile broadband is high speed broadband.
Seems must of the population is of a similar opinion. :rolleyes:

As regards local councils have you ever seen some of the eejits on them.
Some of them were even members of the Green Party.
Note the word "were"

BTW who really controls council budgets by the allocation of funding ?
Have we as in some states local taxes purely destined for local use ?
For instance how much of car tax actually goes towards the roads ?
It used to be very small percentage.

And as for the task force, well we Irish are very fond of committees and to me this is just a fancy new fangled label for them.
When can we expect this task force to meet, who exactly is on it and when will they get to grips (sorry bad pun) with the situation ?
I expect a report around May or June perhaps ?

As regard footpaths, I walked along footpaths along major route into major town today.
It was iced up and very slippy whihc would proof very dangerous for anyone elderly.
There are no actual houes or shops along this stretch of footpath.
There is a church, graveyard, school, open grass area around housing estate, and industrial estates along the road.
Now can someone tell me who should be responsible for clearing this stretch of footpath ?
If we use the arguement from proponents of each householder or busienss owner clearing the area outside their premises/home then should we expect the parish priest and the school teachers out ?
Who is supposed to clear the area outside the graveyard ?

It's all fine saying clear outside your own home or shop, but public areas aren't being cleared.

RedPlanet

jmayo wrote: »

For instance how much of car tax actually goes towards the roads ?
It used to be very small percentage.

I presume you mean Motor Tax.
Anyway, there is no leglisation that such tax should be spent on roads only.
We have a massive road infastructure for our population and land area and it requires constant maintence. It comes from the general tax pool. We all pay for it and we all benefit from having it.

jmayo wrote: »

As regard footpaths, ...snip...
There is a church, graveyard, school, open grass area around housing estate, and industrial estates along the road.
Now can someone tell me who should be responsible for clearing this stretch of footpath ?

It's all fine saying clear outside your own home or shop, but public areas aren't being cleared.

I'm not sure those are public areas.
The area in front of the church should be cleared by them, so too the school.
I'm sure it wouldn't break their bank accounts to hire some young fella to go out with a shovel and clear it. I imagine both places have some sort of maintence personnel, why can't they do it as part of their duties?
The open grass area around housing estate may be the responsibility of the estate, if it's one of those private ventures. It could be the council's though.
The Industrial estates should be done by whomever has property that fronts that patch of footpath.
I'm sure it could be divyied up, or even a general agreement between leaseholders that the matter gets contracted out to such and such enterprising crew of snow and ice removers...

In my opinion

In the best traditions of Irish Emergency Planning we may all get a packet of pills in the post!!

WoollyRedHat

While people are saying that this is a local council problem, the government surely would do something to assist them would they not? If Brian Cowen were asked by RTE this evening what's going on to get rid of the ice etc. would people seriously think he'd come out and say, sorry not my problem, talk to you later. While the Government aren't to completely blame, they should have oversaw getting rid of the ice in some reguard surely?

In any case the level of snow etc. should not have caused so much of a mess...

hallelujajordan

ninty9er wrote: »

I never got that memo, must have been a snow related delay with the servers in Mount Street :P. Well feck it anyway, and there was me sitting at home with my Lemsip all day. Wonder will Maurice O'Donoghue be out around Munster with the plow again tomorrow??

Did you get your cocoa today ? Mine had big FF shaped marshmallows in it

oncevotedff

ninty9er wrote: »

Gritting and water supplies are the responsibility of city and county councils. They have new budgets as of 1 January, to spend as they wish.

What are they to spend it on? There was an interview on Radio 1 today with a guy who imports rock salt. He said that the source (in Spain) takes orders 4 or 5 months in advance. There's a salt mine in Northern Ireland that sells most of it's product to the UK. Since we only get this kind of extended cold spell once every 40 or 50 years, there isn't much point in stockpiling lashings of rock salt.

ninty9er wrote: »

As already stated, it is not a national crisis. It's snow and ice, was there a state of emergency every winter in the 50s?

Exactly. It isn't even that much snow and ice. Country's full of wimps.

LostinKildare

drkpower wrote: »

If we are to consider bringing in such a positive obligation, we need to be pretty clear where the legal liability rests when someone goes ass over tit and ends up paraplegic. If I was in work/on holidays/away when this happened, I wouldn't be happy to be facing a multi-million euro liability.

NYC is similar to Philadelphia in that the owner of the building is responsible for the sidewalk (er, footpath) in front of their building. This applies to snow/ice removal as well as repairing broken pavement, clearing debris, etc., in all seasons. You can be fined if you don't sort it, and sued if someone is injured because of it. If you are going away you must have someone attend to it for you. You ask a neighbor or friend to shovel your footpath if it snows, just as you would ask them to feed your cat while you're away.

The thinking is that your homeowner's liability extends to the footpath in front of your home. Isn't that the same here? Looking at my Quinn Direct homeowners policy, it defines "building" as

the private home at the address shown on the schedule. This includes domestic outbuildings, garages, greenhouses, swimming pools, tennis courts, hot tubs, septic tanks, fuel tanks, terraces, patios, deck areas, driveways, footpaths, wall, fences, gates, hedges and fixtures and fittings. . . .

I read that to mean that your homeowners insurance would pay out liability claims for a person who was injured on the footpath as it would for someone injured inside your house or in your garden. Working backwards, that would imply then that it is the homeowner's legal responsibility. (EDIT: possibly this means footpaths inside your garden? I don't know, it doesn't define the boundary)

And wouldn't the same be true for businesses? If you slip and fall on the highly polished floor of your local AIB branch, you can sue them, right? Presumably if you slip and fall on the steps outside or the footpath in front, you can sue them for that too, right? (that's a serious question -- I'm not from these parts )

For public areas, it seems the local authorities would be responsible.

RedPlanet wrote: »

The area in front of the church should be cleared by them, so too the school.
I'm sure it wouldn't break their bank accounts to hire some young fella to go out with a shovel and clear it. I imagine both places have some sort of maintence personnel, why can't they do it as part of their duties?
The open grass area around housing estate may be the responsibility of the estate, if it's one of those private ventures. It could be the council's though.
The Industrial estates should be done by whomever has property that fronts that patch of footpath.
I'm sure it could be divyied up, or even a general agreement between leaseholders that the matter gets contracted out to such and such enterprising crew of snow and ice removers...

+1. In countries with harsher winters, snow/ice removal is part of maintenance contracts. It should be here, too, for the odd time it's needed.

ninty9er

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Did you get your cocoa today ? Mine had big FF shaped marshmallows in it

No, I'm sick, so I've only left the house for fire supplies and lemsip. I did get the 75% party discount at the local shop when I showed my membership card and did the secret handshake though:D

hallelujajordan

ninty9er wrote: »

No, I'm sick, so I've only left the house for fire supplies and lemsip. I did get the 75% party discount at the local shop when I showed my membership card and did the secret handshake though:D

ssssshhhhhh . . we are not meant to talk about the handshake

sceptre

ninty9er and hallelujajordan, lay off the bad comedy please. It was amusing and had a point with the first such post from each of you in this thread as a reply to a post that deserved it. Now it doesn't do either in a particularly efficient way.

jmayo

RedPlanet wrote: »

I presume you mean Motor Tax.
Anyway, there is no leglisation that such tax should be spent on roads only.
We have a massive road infastructure for our population and land area and it requires constant maintence. It comes from the general tax pool. We all pay for it and we all benefit from having it.

I'm not sure those are public areas.
The area in front of the church should be cleared by them, so too the school.
I'm sure it wouldn't break their bank accounts to hire some young fella to go out with a shovel and clear it. I imagine both places have some sort of maintence personnel, why can't they do it as part of their duties?
The open grass area around housing estate may be the responsibility of the estate, if it's one of those private ventures. It could be the council's though.
The Industrial estates should be done by whomever has property that fronts that patch of footpath.
I'm sure it could be divyied up, or even a general agreement between leaseholders that the matter gets contracted out to such and such enterprising crew of snow and ice removers...

Ehh it's a council estate or at least was.
Not one of those fancy new private estates where residents are now discovering that there 1500 per annum management fee doesn't cover snow and ice removal. :rolleyes:
Only appears to cover mow the grass once or twice a year it seems.
Oh the joys of Ireland :rolleyes:

It is public green area between house and road which has footpath.

Ehh you forgot the graveyard.
That is council property AFAIK so what's excuse for that or maybe you would like the relatives of the ones buried there to clear the footpath outside ?

What about sections of footpath around junctions that happens not to be directly outside anyones property because there is green area which is actually owned by council ?

BTW does anybody think it will be a crisis next wekk when the major M routes start freezing over if the salt runs out ?
Note: I said M and not N.

BTW haven't the ffers told poor old gormless where dempsey is ?
I'll bet that isn't all they have neglected to let him in on. :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

On the Six one News this evening Gormley shows up to discuss the salt and grit situation. He clarifies that Dempsey is in charge of gritting overall ...Dempsey is ( allegedly) Minister of Transport as well as Kildare road opening scams as we discovered before christmas.

Interviewer "Where is the Minister of Transport?"
Gormley "We don't KNOW WHERE HE IS"

Well he did bugger off on holidays monday ( after actually going on holidays 2 weeks before rather than open the M9 . Mind you if we did know where he ws then nothing would be done anyway in normal Dempsey style.

The front page of the Indo all day was

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-told-to-come-out-of-hiding-as-chaos-reigns-2002745.html

"Dempsey told to 'come out of hiding' as chaos reigns"

Had he any principles he would resign but this IS Noel Dempsey we are talking about

Sand

I dont think they're being as sureal as they might imagine either - Didnt Ned O Keefe tell his constituents he wouldnt lobby the government for funds for their school because the school was in an area where he didnt get many votes last time out? An insular mentality where there is no higher loyalty or duty owed beyond their party does exist in Fianna Fail, and indeed is pretty prevalent.

Shea O'Meara

RE: the snow/ice; I see nobody asked Willie O'Dea for help, so he did nowt. So in future every man jack of us will need to call Willie and Co. otherwise I guess they'll presume 'sure they're grand':rolleyes:

Has anyone actually rang them about the job losses or emailed an FYI?

old boy

our weather forecasters say this will last for the next 10 days, on the news @ 6 our leader stated that it would only last 6 days, what does he know that the weather guy dont, also cannot our minister for europe contact his contacts in the eu for help (of any sort)

hallelujajordan

sceptre wrote: »

ninty9er and hallelujajordan, lay off the bad comedy please. It was amusing and had a point with the first such post from each of you in this thread as a reply to a post that deserved it. Now it doesn't do either in a particularly efficient way.

Apologies !

ninty9er

old boy wrote: »

our weather forecasters say this will last for the next 10 days, on the news @ 6 our leader stated that it would only last 6 days, what does he know that the weather guy dont, also cannot our minister for europe contact his contacts in the eu for help (of any sort)

Just after watching it back and it wasn't said. What was said is we have no contingency beyond next weekend.

The Word Is Bor

It would then appear that Meath Co Co wasted salt/grit in front of his house then.

Alcatel

Was just listening to John Gormley on Prime Time. All he could say was 'I'm not responsible for the local authorities' (he being minister for environment and... Local government!) and 'other jurisdictions', aka 'they have snow elsewhere! Look away!'

Same as during the floods, he always seems to be telling us it's all under control, and where it's not, he's not concerned, it's not his bag.

mysterious

Sponge Bob wrote: »

On the Six one News this evening Gormley shows up to discuss the salt and grit situation. He clarifies that Dempsey is in charge of gritting overall ...Dempsey is ( allegedly) Minister of Transport as well as Kildare road opening scams as we discovered before christmas.

Interviewer "Where is the Minister of Transport?"
Gormley "We don't KNOW WHERE HE IS"

Well he did bugger off on holidays monday ( after actually going on holidays 2 weeks before rather than open the M9 . Mind you if we did know where he ws then nothing would be done anyway in normal Dempsey style.

The front page of the Indo all day was

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dempsey-told-to-come-out-of-hiding-as-chaos-reigns-2002745.html

"Dempsey told to 'come out of hiding' as chaos reigns"

Had he any principles he would resign but this IS Noel Dempsey we are talking about

Why do you fill this forum with what governments say. Are you their correspondant. They cant do anything right and need to be sacked since they spend half the year on holidays.

Stop giving the more attention. They dont deserve it. They are not doing anything. I've asked you this question before and you ignored it.

Sponge Bob

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

It would then appear that Meath Co Co wasted salt/grit in front of his house then.

Not really, a state Merc is a rear wheel drive car and behaves abominably on ice, especially if carrying Dempsey and his golf clubs to the airport for a badly winter golf outing with his Meath property developer mates. He only had two weeks holiday before he went off abroad.

Slideshowbob

Gormley has been disgustingly evasive tonight!

He is Minister for Environment but won't accept being called Minister for Snow

He blamed the floods on previous planning instead of adressing the failings of government bodies under his control!

DDigital

Have I stumbled upon disgust with Dempsey? I hope so. He should be dragged back off holidays to face the music. In fact he should resign for not coming back to his post in a time of need. Gormleys statement was a true treflection of this Governments lopsided makeup of tossers and wannebe tossers.

markpb

Slideshowbob wrote: »

He blamed the floods on previous planning instead of adressing the failings of government bodies under his control!

The floods in Kildare were absolutely the fault of the local authority. If the planning authority allowed construction on a flood plane before he was minister, how could he accept responsibility for that? If the road and drainage authority refuse to fix culverts, what power does he have to force them to do their jobs?

He was very evasive about the flooding in Cork but the issue is complex and Primetime were trying to over simplify it and then not allocate enough time to explain them.

yoshytoshy

Minister for snow ,sounds like a drug overlord or something.

Sponge Bob

We were disgusted with that lying sleeveen Dempsey long ago around here and most recently when he refused to open the M9 3 weeks ago.

dee1dee2

mr. dempsey was in trim on sunday seen him lol

bmaxi

That's the problem with government at all levels, nobody is responsible for anything, I'm p*ssed off listening to the spin and blame game.
I don't care who is or isn't responsible for what has happened in the past, what I want is for these wastrels to justify their extortionate salaries, fix the problem and make sure it doesn't happen in the future.