Reincarnation issue

MB44

Hello. I am unsure if this is the right place to post but I saw a recent thread on reincarnation here. I apologise in advance if it is wrong.

Anyway on to my question. A bit of background information first. About a year ago, my uncle was coming home to see the family. I consider him as an "intellectual" but he is also quite religious and spiritual. He switch to Buddhism many years ago and practices his beliefs.
I myself am a very strong atheist and like most atheists, I like to debate/argue with religious people about there beliefs. So anway, I met my uncle and we had a fascinating discussion. Many points that I brought him up on resulted in very little response but as he being the elder I remained respectful to what he was saying to me. Many of his family seem to believe he has some sort of gift. It is hard to explain but basically he has had experiences in his life where he has use religion as the reason for the events. He believes and so does my family believe that he can sense a reincarnate in a present day person just be shaking their hand or hugging etc. So I obviously Brought this up to talk about and his response just let me to stay quiet as I would have probably just of said the wrong thing.

After about an hour he had to go and he finished by shaking my hand. At that point he started to shed a tear. I asked him what was wrong. And he said and i quote " I cant tell you what it is but you are someone special" . This was just unfair because I was curious . I said this to my dad and he just said it was the usual rubbish and to ignore it.

So anyway, tonight at my house, there was a bit of drama with the family and for some reason after the drama, I was talking to my Mum and it just came into my head to ask her. I reminded her and she just looked at me and her face literally sank and I mean sank!!. I pleaded with her to tell me what this big secret was and she told me that my uncle had told my Aunt and my ant had told my mum. so it goes like this, apparently I am the reincarnation of my uncles, aunts and mums father, My grandfather.

Now I know this is silly but 1% of me believes this and the rest of me just laughs it away, but the fact my uncle has said this to my family and the fact it has such effect on them is kind of freaking me out. Of course it is not true but alot of thinks now make sense that have happened over the past year, like the sudden love of me by my mothers side of the family and the wanting to talk to me about things and take advice.

I was joking early and told my mum to get to bed and brush her teeth. I woldnt of been surprised if she had said yes dad!!

SO wold love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks for reading.

Turtwig

Family is just being superstitious.
It may be possible by some supernatural occurrence that you're a reincarnate.
However, I think, any biologist would agree that biology where your mother and your father are from two diverse gene pools would result in genes from only one gene pool and somehow happen to be identical to that of your mother's father.

Nah!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dades

Maybe you've inherited some of your grandfather's characteristics or mannerisms, and this has been picked up by your uncle's reincarnation beliefs. This in turn is then picked up by your other relatives who now see your inherited traits in the light of your uncle's declarations.

Are you anything like your grandfather was? Old pics etc?

lucianot

Your uncle gets a lot of power by claiming he has a special ability. And it is very cruel even if he honestly believes he is doing good. It's very cruel to impose that on you and make others to believe it. He should keep to himself.

Ickle Magoo

I think it's quite insulting. Rather than seeing you as your own person, he's pushing some kind of assumed personality on to you - and telling your family to do the same.

I don't think your uncle has any gift, I don't think it's possible for souls to be reincarnated or whatever he is suggesting. I think these people who think they can shake your hand and read your "soul" are bit deluded. You are biological matter made from your parents sperm & ova, you will naturally share some of your genetic material with your grandfather but that is a long way from actually being him in a new body.

Maybe say you've ascribed to Buddhism, shake his hand and gasp & start telling all and sundry he's actually great auntie Maude and see if he cops on to how annoying it is.

liamw

Dades wrote: »

Maybe you've inherited some of your grandfather's characteristics or mannerisms, and this has been picked up by your uncle's reincarnation beliefs. This in turn is then picked up by your other relatives who now see your inherited traits in the light of your uncle's declarations.

Are you anything like your grandfather was? Old pics etc?

+1

TokenWhite

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I think it's quite insulting. Rather than seeing you as your own person, he's pushing some kind of assumed personality on to you - and telling your family to do the same.

I don't think your uncle has any gift, I don't think it's possible for souls to be reincarnated or whatever he is suggesting. I think these people who think they can shake your hand and read your "soul" are bit deluded. You are biological matter made from your parents sperm & ova, you will naturally share some of your genetic material with your grandfather but that is a long way from actually being him in a new body.

Maybe say you've ascribed to Buddhism, shake his hand and gasp & start telling all and sundry he's actually great auntie Maude and see if he cops on to how annoying it is.

Well the OP doesn't seem that annoyed so that would be pointless, as for insulting, that's blowing it out of proportion a little bit. If anything I'd say it's more of a compliment considering how highly they seem to regard their father, but wether it's the foundations for a healthy relationship between the OP and his mothers side of the family is a different story.

I can see why your uncle might want to believe this, must be a great feeling to think that your father is still around in some form or other, but also to believe that maybe he'll continue to live on after his own death around the people he loves. That doesn't make him right though.

But again I doubt if you are the re-incarnation of anybody, I don't believe humans are any different from any other form of life on earth and I can't see tree's, flies or dungbeetles being the reincarnation of their recent ancestors, but thats just one mans opinion, I've been wrong before

Ickle Magoo

TokenWhite wrote: »

Well the OP doesn't seem that annoyed so that would be pointless, as for insulting, that's blowing it out of proportion a little bit.

Well, they are my thoughts and that's what the OP asked for - he can dismiss them or take them on board as he wishes. :cool:

high horse

If the worlds population is increasing and reincarnation is basically the recycling of a set number of souls/spirits..... where do the new spirits come from for the increased number of people?

doctoremma

MB44 wrote: »

Hello. I am unsure if this is the right place to post but I saw a recent thread on reincarnation here. I apologise in advance if it is wrong.

Anyway on to my question. A bit of background information first. About a year ago, my uncle was coming home to see the family. I consider him as an "intellectual" but he is also quite religious and spiritual. He switch to Buddhism many years ago and practices his beliefs.
I myself am a very strong atheist and like most atheists, I like to debate/argue with religious people about there beliefs. So anway, I met my uncle and we had a fascinating discussion. Many points that I brought him up on resulted in very little response but as he being the elder I remained respectful to what he was saying to me. Many of his family seem to believe he has some sort of gift. It is hard to explain but basically he has had experiences in his life where he has use religion as the reason for the events. He believes and so does my family believe that he can sense a reincarnate in a present day person just be shaking their hand or hugging etc. So I obviously Brought this up to talk about and his response just let me to stay quiet as I would have probably just of said the wrong thing.

After about an hour he had to go and he finished by shaking my hand. At that point he started to shed a tear. I asked him what was wrong. And he said and i quote " I cant tell you what it is but you are someone special" . This was just unfair because I was curious . I said this to my dad and he just said it was the usual rubbish and to ignore it.

So anyway, tonight at my house, there was a bit of drama with the family and for some reason after the drama, I was talking to my Mum and it just came into my head to ask her. I reminded her and she just looked at me and her face literally sank and I mean sank!!. I pleaded with her to tell me what this big secret was and she told me that my uncle had told my Aunt and my ant had told my mum. so it goes like this, apparently I am the reincarnation of my uncles, aunts and mums father, My grandfather.

Now I know this is silly but 1% of me believes this and the rest of me just laughs it away, but the fact my uncle has said this to my family and the fact it has such effect on them is kind of freaking me out. Of course it is not true but alot of thinks now make sense that have happened over the past year, like the sudden love of me by my mothers side of the family and the wanting to talk to me about things and take advice.

I was joking early and told my mum to get to bed and brush her teeth. I woldnt of been surprised if she had said yes dad!!

SO wold love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks for reading.

I agree with what the others say - it is almost infinitely more plausible that you might act/look/talk like your grandfather because you share not only his genes but his familial surroundings.

Some things to explore:
How soon after your grandfather's death were you born?
How likely is it that of all the rebirths, the consciousness of your grandfather entered you?
Buddhists don't necessarily believe in reincarnation as we understand it i.e. you are not your grandfather!

aidan24326

MB44 wrote: »

Many of his family seem to believe he has some sort of gift.

He doesn't. From what you've described he sounds either deluded or a total spoofer, and hardly much of an 'intellectual'. Pseudo-intellectual maybe.

I think you should call him on it, ask him how he 'knows' these things. I know he's your uncle and you probably don't want to rock the boat too much, but he's making rather grandiose claims here that can have a strong emotional effect on people.

BTW, reincarnation is impossible, but I think you know that anyway.

Pushtrak

high horse wrote: »

If the worlds population is increasing and reincarnation is basically the recycling of a set number of souls/spirits..... where do the new spirits come from for the increased number of people?

Well, according to those who believe in reincarnation, a person is just as likely to come back as a dog, cat or something else. Well, I'm not sure, there may be different systems of interpretation of reincarnation.

Afterlife is the layman "I need something else to be there after death" while reincarnation is more a "I need something else to be there after death, but I want to continue to live on this planet/see things from a new perspective/et cetera".

In short, a pipe dream.

Dave!

OP you have a superstitious family, that's all there is to it. It's not surprising that you're second guessing your own intuition here either. When you're the only dissenter in the family, it can be hard to stick to your guns.

MB44

Hi again. I am truly surprised with the great response and I have enjoyed seeing everyones points of view and they all make sense in my mind and I agree with what everyone is saying..

In response to some of the posters about my likeness to my grandafther. Well all I can say is that I have never met him . He died 15 years before I was born but I have seen pictures of him when he was my age and to be honest there is a slight resemblance from what I can see but my gran always said I was the spitting image of him .

I do feel that my uncle believes he has this ability and fails to realise the effect he can have . Considering his knowledge, I feel he uses these arguements because he knows he gets a positive response from his siblings, but to be fair I consider myself quite knowledgable but like most atheists I use logic and science to back up my arguements but those who are religious ignore logic.

The amazing thing is that if I were to post this in a Catholic forum or other religious forum, the response would be the opposite to what I have receieved here. Of course I prefer the response here but like all religious arguements,we can go on and on and never get anywhere. I think from now I should just respect others beliefs and ignore them instead of letting them get a hold over me.

Ickle Magoo

MB44 wrote: »

...but my gran always said I was the spitting image of him .

People have said that about me and members of my family - without realising I'm adopted! You may well be the image of your grandfather but it also shows people can see what they want if they look hard enough.

dan_d

You are you, not your grandfather. Your uncle probably really does believe he had a gift but he should consider the effect on others before he goes around thrusting other people's lives on them.
My Irish aunt has 2 kids adopted from Khazakstan (spelt right?) - Asian looking children, beautiful. People have often told her how like her they look.
Go figure.

Pushtrak

dan_d wrote: »

You are you, not your grandfather. Your uncle probably really does believe he had a gift but he should consider the effect on others before he goes around thrusting other people's lives on them.

Maybe he did? It doesn't seem the OP took any real offence to the sentiment. I don't agree with what the uncle said, but he didn't seem to mean any harm by it even though we can see the potential harmful implications.

Course, if he himself is aware that he is propping up smoke and mirrors, then its another matter entirely. There isn't anything substantial to indicate that though.

Sam Vimes

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

People have said that about me and members of my family - without realising I'm adopted! You may well be the image of your grandfather but it also shows people can see what they want if they look hard enough.

It's only happened once that I can remember but I'm also adopted and was told I have the look of my mother about me. If I do it's entirely coincidental

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sam Vimes wrote: »

It's only happened once that I can remember but I'm also adopted and was told I have the look of my mother about me. If I do it's entirely coincidental

You prob have similar learned expressions. These often fool the mind into thinking people actually look alike.

Daftendirekt

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

You prob have similar learned expressions. These often fool the mind into thinking people actually look alike.

If you look hard enough, you can make anyone look like anyone. Really. Try it and see!

Undergod

Malty_T wrote: »

Family is just being superstitious.
It may be possible by some supernatural occurrence that you're a reincarnate.
However, I think, any biologist would agree that biology where your mother and your father are from two diverse gene pools would result in genes from only one gene pool and somehow happen to be identical to that of your mother's father.

Nah!

If I read what you're saying correctly, I'd point out that most reincarnation that I know of doesn't claim that when people reincarnate they have the same genes.

hiorta

My understanding is that the physical part of us cannot reincarnate, but the real us - the eternal soul in which all of our knowledge and experiences to date is stored - can and does, often.

dvpower

hiorta wrote: »

My understanding is that the physical part of us cannot reincarnate, but the real us - the eternal soul in which all of our knowledge and experiences to date is stored - can and does, often.

Our brains?

hiorta

No, our minds - or a portion of them appropriate to the intended incarnation.

roosh

MB44 wrote: »

Hello. I am unsure if this is the right place to post but I saw a recent thread on reincarnation here. I apologise in advance if it is wrong.

Anyway on to my question. A bit of background information first. About a year ago, my uncle was coming home to see the family. I consider him as an "intellectual" but he is also quite religious and spiritual. He switch to Buddhism many years ago and practices his beliefs.
I myself am a very strong atheist and like most atheists, I like to debate/argue with religious people about there beliefs. So anway, I met my uncle and we had a fascinating discussion. Many points that I brought him up on resulted in very little response but as he being the elder I remained respectful to what he was saying to me. Many of his family seem to believe he has some sort of gift. It is hard to explain but basically he has had experiences in his life where he has use religion as the reason for the events. He believes and so does my family believe that he can sense a reincarnate in a present day person just be shaking their hand or hugging etc. So I obviously Brought this up to talk about and his response just let me to stay quiet as I would have probably just of said the wrong thing.

After about an hour he had to go and he finished by shaking my hand. At that point he started to shed a tear. I asked him what was wrong. And he said and i quote " I cant tell you what it is but you are someone special" . This was just unfair because I was curious . I said this to my dad and he just said it was the usual rubbish and to ignore it.

So anyway, tonight at my house, there was a bit of drama with the family and for some reason after the drama, I was talking to my Mum and it just came into my head to ask her. I reminded her and she just looked at me and her face literally sank and I mean sank!!. I pleaded with her to tell me what this big secret was and she told me that my uncle had told my Aunt and my ant had told my mum. so it goes like this, apparently I am the reincarnation of my uncles, aunts and mums father, My grandfather.

Now I know this is silly but 1% of me believes this and the rest of me just laughs it away, but the fact my uncle has said this to my family and the fact it has such effect on them is kind of freaking me out. Of course it is not true but alot of thinks now make sense that have happened over the past year, like the sudden love of me by my mothers side of the family and the wanting to talk to me about things and take advice.

I was joking early and told my mum to get to bed and brush her teeth. I woldnt of been surprised if she had said yes dad!!

SO wold love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

Thanks for reading.

the concept of re-incarnation can often be misunderstood, just as the concept of "life after death". Usually, when people hear these concepts, they imagine that somehow us as we are now i.e. our subjective perception of who we are, will somehow magically pop up somewhere else along the line. In the case of "life after death", that image is usually of a translucent body floating around with wings somewhere.

This is of course utter nonesense.


However, if one considers a number of things then these concepts can make a little more sense. When discussing such concepts, it does not suffice to imagine that what one thinks is necessarily correct e.g. floating translucent bodies. Instead one must consider the views that are put forward by the particular "belief system".

With regard to Buddhism, the teachings clearly portray the idea that what we perceive as our bodies is not necessarily real - somehting that is borne out in science. Buddhism also teaches that what we perceive as our mind, is not necessarily what our mind is (in much the same way as we see our bodies subjectively).

Buddhism deals very much with the idea of "the true self", so when discussing the concept of re-incarnation, this very imporatant fact [what the Buddhist belief is] must be considered. It is re-incarnation of the true self, which is not our bodies as we perceive them, nor our mind as we perceive it.

ItisintheSTARS

high horse wrote: »

If the worlds population is increasing and reincarnation is basically the recycling of a set number of souls/spirits..... where do the new spirits come from for the increased number of people?

They have come up from lower incarnations ,and quite a few from hell.
In order to become aware of reincarnation ,you need to be a very evolved soul.
Those who cling to the material /rational left hand knowledge are only aware of the sense knowledge.
All great long term scientists,musicians ,artists can connect to the unseen

,and many of them have been told they were 'mad 'by less evolved souls. No time for a lisr here but look them up,including the man who invented the telephone.
Families whi follow the higher ,spiritual law ,have good reincarnations
and unite quickly with their beloved ones.
A wonderful book to read 'Children's past Lives' by Carol Bowman.

Before I read this book I had the fortunate experience to help the reincarnation of a member of my family ,the rest being totally sceptical,
but not now.
One of the situations in the book is a mirror of my own experience.

Reincarnation is only good if it is at a high level ,otherwise it can be horrible to die and die again without any power .
The power come from a good life ,and a love of the 'creator '.
The cycle of of the 'great year' is closing and only those who have followed the laws will graduate to a higher place
We are living in a time of Aquarius.
The sun and moon are not creative[even destructive] in this sign [sidereal],and for many who are too rebellious ,they will ,[are] lose everything.

iUseVi

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

They have come up from lower incarnations ,and quite a few from hell.
In order to become aware of reincarnation ,you need to be a very evolved soul.
Those who cling to the material /rational left hand knowledge are only aware of the sense knowledge.
All great long term scientists,musicians ,artists can connect to the unseen

,and many of them have been told they were 'mad 'by less evolved souls. No time for a lisr here but look them up,including the man who invented the telephone.
Families whi follow the higher ,spiritual law ,have good reincarnations
and unite quickly with their beloved ones.
A wonderful book to read 'Children's past Lives' by Carol Bowman.

Before I read this book I had the fortunate experience to help the reincarnation of a member of my family ,the rest being totally sceptical,
but not now.
One of the situations in the book is a mirror of my own experience.

Reincarnation is only good if it is at a high level ,otherwise it can be horrible to die and die again without any power .
The power come from a good life ,and a love of the 'creator '.
The cycle of of the 'great year' is closing and only those who have followed the laws will graduate to a higher place
We are living in a time of Aquarius.
The sun and moon are not creative[even destructive] in this sign [sidereal],and for many who are too rebellious ,they will ,[are] lose everything.

This made my day thanks. Haven't laughed so hard in ages. Cheers.

iUseVi

EDIT: this is my post number 666 :O oh deary me.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Dades

Still not buying it, sorry ItisintheSTARS.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

iUseVi

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Nice quote, I might have to steal it.

sink

ItisintheSTARS wrote: »

They have come up from lower incarnations ,and quite a few from hell.
In order to become aware of reincarnation ,you need to be a very evolved soul.
Those who cling to the material /rational left hand knowledge are only aware of the sense knowledge.
All great long term scientists,musicians ,artists can connect to the unseen

,and many of them have been told they were 'mad 'by less evolved souls. No time for a lisr here but look them up,including the man who invented the telephone.
Families whi follow the higher ,spiritual law ,have good reincarnations
and unite quickly with their beloved ones.
A wonderful book to read 'Children's past Lives' by Carol Bowman.

Before I read this book I had the fortunate experience to help the reincarnation of a member of my family ,the rest being totally sceptical,
but not now.
One of the situations in the book is a mirror of my own experience.

Reincarnation is only good if it is at a high level ,otherwise it can be horrible to die and die again without any power .
The power come from a good life ,and a love of the 'creator '.
The cycle of of the 'great year' is closing and only those who have followed the laws will graduate to a higher place
We are living in a time of Aquarius.
The sun and moon are not creative[even destructive] in this sign [sidereal],and for many who are too rebellious ,they will ,[are] lose everything.

Lol, did you perhaps attend a dinner with comedian Tim Minchin some time ago?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujUQn0HhGEk

Turtwig

iUseVi wrote: »

Nice quote, I might have to steal it.

donegalfella wrote: »

I hope you realize that you're (mostly) talking to an audience of atheists, who don't believe in hell, souls, and "the unseen." We cling to "the material," because, frankly, there's nothing else to cling to.

Yeah except an atheist doesn't necessarily need to have any of those things. S/he can cling to the unseen as much as s/he likes as long as it's not a deity they're clinging to.

I hope you realize that you're (mostly) talking to an audience of materialists, who don't believe in hell, souls, and "the unseen." We cling to "the material," because, frankly, there's nothing else to cling to.

Fixed.

Flamed Diving

Spirits didn't seem to exist before human society began, and it would seem very unlikely that they would exist, if we were to vanish. Why is this?

a) Because, for some magical reason, only humans are allowed to have spirits, despite us sharing so much in common with all life?

b) Because, in the absence of humans, there is no creature intelligent enough to come up with such a stupid idea?

Hmm...

liamw

Flamed Diving wrote: »

there is no creature intelligent enough to come up with such a stupid idea?

Oxymoron indeed