Goverment Failure in current Weather crisis

BennyLava

Things couldn't be more different from the last time Ireland faced weather conditions like these

"
IN the big freeze of January 1982, temperatures dropped so low that home-heating oil froze in tanks and blocks of ice floated down the River Liffey.
Temperatures plummeted to -15C, and things were so bad that the Canadian government donated six snowmobiles to the nation.
The Irish Independent reported on Monday, January 11, that the government had told cash-strapped local authorities that a "blank cheque" was offered to "get the nation moving again".
But the following day, matters had not improved. 'We're still stuck -- the big freeze drags on', the lead story of January 12 said. But the next day, the Army had arrived to clear the streets.
'Storm Troopers -- Government bring in the Army ice-breakers', the paper reported.
The then-Tanaiste and Minister for Energy Michael O'Leary took on the mantle of 'Minister for Snow', but four days after the country was hit Taoiseach Garret FitzGerald returned from his Tenerife sun holiday to take charge. The entire country was hit with snow storms on Friday, January 8, with 26cm recorded at Dublin Airport. In areas where there was drifting, the snow was up to 1.5 metres deep. The storm was so bad that hundreds of people were trapped inside Dublin Airport as the access roads were piled high with snowdrifts. Hundreds of cars were abandoned on the Naas dual carriageway and the lowest observed temperature was recorded at Glasnevin in Dublin on January 12 -- an Arctic -19.6C.
The response of the Government was vastly different. Instead of local authorities being tasked with keeping the country moving, the Government set up an emergency committee to co-ordinate efforts. Mr Fitzgerald ordered an immediate review of the strategy four days into the crisis, and 500 soldiers were drafted on to the streets of Dublin to clear snow. "


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/storm-troopers-fought-1982-freeze-2002695.html

What are the government doing this time S.F.A., things really need to change in this country.

RHunce

while at a not so long length for other forums, methinks it's too long for a read in AH

NEXT!

AnonoBoy

Brian Cowen salted my driveway yesterday so I'm happy enough.

Thanks Senor Cowen!

dambarude

Surely Mary Harney could block the snow in some way?

Run_to_da_hills

I now blame the Eu for not helping us with the crisis, they control the weather. :mad:

super_furry

That was more than slightly different to what's going on now. Two inches of snow against 1.5m drifts. People in suburbs were trapped in their homes for weeks and had to have food and milk air-lifted in back then. Now, it's cold and a bit slippy.

funk-you

Not exactly comparible, it's not -19.6 and there's not 1.5m of snow. It's just a bit of snow, ther roads need gritting and a few extra measures put in place but it's not armageddon. Chill out.

-Funk

Captain Havoc

What's this standstill carp, I made it from my home in Kilkenny to my work in Carlow this morning because I'm not a numpty and took the train, a lot (not all) of people are using this as an excuse to scive because they are wussies, some people don't realise how not severe this weather is, it's a bit snow. If you have taken the day off enjoy it as it may be some time before we get snow like this again.

Now to go and fire some snowballs at people as no one is coming near the shop today.

super_furry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I now blame the Eu for not helping us with the crisis, they control the weather. :mad:

I wish I knew for certain you were taking the piss with this.

seamus

It's not a crisis or emergency.

It's a bit of snow. Stop listening to the media and their hyping-up bull****.

If we spend €50m on equipment for something that occurs once every couple of years and doesn't have any major effect on the country aside from a few days off school and work, the media would be wailing about money wasting and jobs for the boys.

Just get on with life and stop making a big fncking drama about every piddly little thing. I got home last night, I got into work today, aside from things taking a little longer, my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way. So stop panicking and get on with it.

Jesus Christ.

ibarelycare

BennyLava wrote: »

...Minister for Energy Michael O'Leary ...

No way!

super_furry

Anway, http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0107/weather.html

"A Government emergency response committee is to meet this morning to discuss the ongoing problems caused by the cold snap.

The committee is made up of representatives from the departments of transport, environment, health education, the Taoiseach and other agencies."

ninebeanrows

The difference between todays cold Spell and 1982 is that we just havent got a big widespread snowfall.

It has been exceptionally cold for a prolonged period of time however and if we did get a foot dumping of snow this winter would be worse than 1982 but at the moment that is looking unlikely at this time although the cold weather could yet cling on for weeks.

douglashyde

only the Irish could not enjoy a bit of snow!!

Archeron

I got a snow day, I got a snow day.....

Not that bad to be honest. I dont want to spend 4 hours getting home again today, so I was told not to come in and I didnt argue as I can work from home. I've checked on elderly neighbours, they're all fine and have my number if they need anything, so bar slidey car crashes and slips, I'm actually quite enjoying this.

Walking through Tallaght yesterday, everybody had a big smile on their faces, young and old alike, and 50 year old men and women were throwing snowballs at each other. And in a pleasant Christmas card way as well, not a scobie causing damage kind of way.

Its cheering a lot of people up, at least its not the depressing grey that January normally brings.

Yes, I'll be glad when its gone, but in the meantime, LETS MAKE SNOW MEN!!!!

mike65

Emergency response commmmmitt-eeeeee set up after 3 weeks of freezing weather? Well done lads.

mathie

douglashyde wrote: »

only the Irish could not enjoy a bit of snow!!

Did you dream up this response all on your own or did you consult 'Dr Cliches Enormous Book of Cliches'?

ibarelycare

Weathercheck wrote: »

The difference between todays cold Spell and 1982 is that we just havent got a big widespread snowfall.

It has been exceptionally cold for a prolonged period of time however and if we did get a foot dumping of snow this winter would be worse than 1982 but at the moment that is looking unlikely at this time although the cold weather could yet cling on for weeks.

What about the snow that's forecast for the weekend? Will there not be much?

weldoninhio

Yeah!! Its all media hype. Dublin Bus just left me and hundreds more stranded last night by pulling all services at 4pm yesterday afternoon due to the hype!!!

RATM

seamus wrote: »

It's not a crisis or emergency.

It's a bit of snow. Stop listening to the media and their hyping-up bull****.

If we spend €50m on equipment for something that occurs once every couple of years and doesn't have any major effect on the country aside from a few days off school and work, the media would be wailing about money wasting and jobs for the boys.

Just get on with life and stop making a big fncking drama about every piddly little thing. I got home last night, I got into work today, aside from things taking a little longer, my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way. So stop panicking and get on with it.

Jesus Christ.

You wouldn't even need to spend €50 million to buy 20 or 30 snow ploughs and set them to work 24/7 for a week.
And the total cost to the economy of this bad weather so far has been reported as €80 million so its really a no-brainer to have this type of equipment at our disposal.
But then again our government have no-brains which explains why we have no snow ploughs.

I bet every single Polish person living here is laughing their heads off at the Irish response to this 'emergency'. If this was Poland they'd have the army out clearing the snow 24/7. Job done.

Sam Kade

How the hell is this weather a crisis? A bit of frost and snow and people that can't deal with it must find someone to blame. Get over it. I heard some idiot on the radio the other day saying that it was a national disaster, he must be some 12 year old that never before saw frost or snow. And these people that think salt is magic and that the council must put it up to their doorway in case they might slip :rolleyes:

Hank_Jones

ibarelycare wrote: »

No way!

It's not THAT Michael O'Leary.

He would have been about 20 years of age at that stage.

It's this one : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O%27Leary_%28politician%29

ibarelycare

Hank_Jones wrote: »

It's not THAT Michael O'Leary.

He would have been about 20 years of age at that stage.

It's this one : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_O%27Leary_%28politician%29

I know

Size=everything

RATM wrote: »

I bet every single Polish person living here is laughing their heads off at the Irish response to this 'emergency'. If this was Poland they'd have the army out clearing the snow 24/7. Job done.

Polish friend was just laughing this morning about how theres not even a 1/4 of an inch of snow and the city is essentially shut down. Shops closing early, bus routes stopped, cars going literally 5mph etc.

BostonB

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah!! Its all media hype. Dublin Bus just left me and hundreds more stranded last night by pulling all services at 4pm yesterday afternoon due to the hype!!!

Two different issue. The conditions are not bad. Its the complete failure to grit anywhere thats made the roads dangerous.

BostonB

Size=everything wrote: »

Polish friend was just laughing this morning about how theres not even a 1/4 of an inch of snow and the city is essentially shut down. Shops closing early, bus routes stopped, cars going literally 5mph etc.

Deeply embrassing that we can't manage a tiny bit of snow.

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

It's not a crisis or emergency.

It's a bit of snow. Stop listening to the media and their hyping-up bull****.

If we spend €50m on equipment for something that occurs once every couple of years and doesn't have any major effect on the country aside from a few days off school and work, the media would be wailing about money wasting and jobs for the boys.

Just get on with life and stop making a big fncking drama about every piddly little thing. I got home last night, I got into work today, aside from things taking a little longer, my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way. So stop panicking and get on with it.

Jesus Christ.

Guess you don't know any old people who are completely stranded at home because they can't use the pavements. All for the sake of a bit of grit.

BostonB

I don't understand why they aren't gritting. Other times they've gritted everywhere well before a cold snap and on most roads with no problem.

I can only assume they didn't buy in grit to save money. I can't see any other reason.

Once they let the roads get a bit snow built up, it was too late. If they'd gritted at the start and kept traffic moving the snow would not have built up like it has.

RoadKillTs

What crisis? its only a wee drop of snow

pookie82

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I now blame the Eu for not helping us with the crisis, they control the weather. :mad:

Wasn't that a promise of Lisbon? Vote yes and life will be awesome, i.e. you won't be snowed in ever again???

Liars.

Eoin

RATM wrote: »

You wouldn't even need to spend €50 million to buy 20 or 30 snow ploughs and set them to work 24/7 for a week.
And the total cost to the economy of this bad weather so far has been reported as €80 million so its really a no-brainer to have this type of equipment at our disposal.
But then again our government have no-brains which explains why we have no snow ploughs.

I'm over in the UK at the moment, and it seems to be affecting them as badly - it's cost them closer to €800 million from what I read yesterday. Lots of businesses, schools, roads are closed as well. If we had conditions like this every year, then I think a rant might be more deserved - but we don't (yet). I know the conditions are worse in the UK, but they always seem to get more extremes than us.

pookie82

Size=everything wrote: »

Polish friend was just laughing this morning about how theres not even a 1/4 of an inch of snow and the city is essentially shut down. Shops closing early, bus routes stopped, cars going literally 5mph etc.

It's utterly pointless for smug foreigners to titter at our incompetence to deal with an inch of snow. Why should we be prepared for it? It happens about once every twenty years. Perfectly reasonable that we would be scared to use the roads etc when we don't have snow tyres or ploughs in place to get on with it. It really pisses me off when foreigners who are used to snow for six months of the year and whose countries are well equipped to deal with it because they have to every year laugh at us.

seamus

BostonB wrote: »

Guess you don't know any old people who are completely stranded at home because they can't use the pavements. All for the sake of a bit of grit.

Yep. My parents are at home, snowed in and can't get out of their driveway.

But like every other sensible person in the country, they saw the warnings last week to expect more snow, and the warnings at the weekend that there would definitely be snow, and you know what they did? They planned. They filled the house with food and made sure they had enough fuel so that they could stick out at least two weeks of this (even though it'll only be a few days).

Yet when people fail to plan, somehow it's the government's fault for not getting them out of the mess they've got themselves into.

Just like those people who live in flood plains, know that their area is susceptible to flooding, yet somehow it became the Government's problem when they got flooded and demanded compensation to rebuild.

Naturally there will be a few sob stories - mary with no friends and no relations and no tv who didn't know it was coming, but 99% of people who are in trouble today are in trouble because they failed to plan.

Myrddin

There are four words too many in the title of this thread.

ScumLord

What are ya on about the roads around here where grand, only Christmas day got really bad. Well gritted up today as well. Your just over reacting everything fines.

faceman

BennyLava wrote: »

What are the government doing this time S.F.A., things really need to change in this country.

Thats very unfair. You cant expect them to have to do anything while they are on their holidays. :pac:

seamus wrote:

It's not a crisis or emergency.

It's a bit of snow. Stop listening to the media and their hyping-up bull****.

If we spend €50m on equipment for something that occurs once every couple of years and doesn't have any major effect on the country aside from a few days off school and work, the media would be wailing about money wasting and jobs for the boys.

Just get on with life and stop making a big fncking drama about every piddly little thing. I got home last night, I got into work today, aside from things taking a little longer, my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way. So stop panicking and get on with it.

I'd have to disagree. You are right on one account, its just a bit of prolonged snow and ice. The issue with it tho, is that it has been forecast and prolonged. It didnt come out of the blue. Local authorities should have been better prepared and equipped to deal with it. It shouldnt take this level of snow and ice to bring the country to its knees.

twinytwo

get some of the guys out of the prisons chain them up give em shovels and let them clear the roads... no need to spend millions on equipment we dont need and would cut something off the 98000 a year it cost to keep em in prison

seamus

faceman wrote: »

It shouldnt take this level of snow and ice to bring the country to its knees.

No it shouldn't. People should keep an eye on the forecast and prepare;
"It's probably going to snow tomorrow, meaning the traffic will turn to ****e. Worst case scenario: The busses stop. What am I going to do in that case? Would I better off staying at home or perhaps leaving at lunchtime?".

Even if the busses hadn't stopped, people should still have been prepared for public transport taking at least 3 hours to get from the city centre to the M50 and made alternative arrangements. Hint: It's quicker to walk that distance in most cases.

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

Yep. My parents are at home, snowed in and can't get out of their driveway.

But like every other sensible person in the country, they saw the warnings last week to expect more snow, and the warnings at the weekend that there would definitely be snow, and you know what they did? They planned. They filled the house with food and made sure they had enough fuel so that they could stick out at least two weeks of this (even though it'll only be a few days).....

Lol

seamus wrote: »

....my life nor anyone I know's life has not been affected in any major way...

So needing to stockpile food for 2 weeks, and not leaving the house...Completely not effected. Lol.

seamus

BostonB wrote: »

So needing to stockpile food for 2 weeks, and not leaving the house...Completely not effected. Lol.

Not really. They needed go shopping anyway. Life being affected in a major way is, "I have no water, no heating, I'm freezing and there's nobody who can get to me to help me. I will die if I can't get out".

If you think that needing to do a large shopping trip is "major", then you must live a pretty comfy life

My commute takes an hour longer now that it's freezing. I wouldn't consider that a major disruption.

keano_afc

Captain Havoc wrote: »

What's this standstill carp, I made it from my home in Kilkenny to my work in Carlow this morning because I'm not a numpty and took the train, a lot (not all) of people are using this as an excuse to scive because they are wussies, some people don't realise how not severe this weather is, it's a bit snow. If you have taken the day off enjoy it as it may be some time before we get snow like this again.

Now to go and fire some snowballs at people as no one is coming near the shop today.

Fish are standing upright!! Snow and ice is one thing, but now I'm really scared.

Dartz

weldoninhio wrote: »

Yeah!! Its all media hype. Dublin Bus just left me and hundreds more stranded last night by pulling all services at 4pm yesterday afternoon due to the hype!!!

I thought this was due to a big three-axle double decker sliding sideways down Constitution hill and nearly tipping over when it gripped at the bottom.

BostonB

seamus wrote: »

Not really. They needed go shopping anyway. Life being affected in a major way is, "I have no water, no heating, I'm freezing and there's nobody who can get to me to help me. I will die if I can't get out".

If you think that needing to do a large shopping trip is "major", then you must live a pretty comfy life

My commute takes an hour longer now that it's freezing. I wouldn't consider that a major disruption.

Its not major if you face life and death on a daily basis. Few in Ireland face that. Its nonsense to suggest otherwise. For most people not being about to do their normal daily activities is a major disruption. So not being able to walk up to the doc or the local shop is a major disruption. Not being able to get to work.

Your commute might be an hour longer mine was 2 hours longer. Thats because I made it up a hill I know would be impossible today, and I was able to do my ratrunning through estates that were ice rinks. Most people couldn't do that why it took them 3 and 4 hours to get home.

It was completely avoidable if they simply gritted the roads.

Osgoodisgood

twinytwo wrote: »

get some of the guys out of the prisons chain them up give em shovels and let them clear the roads... no need to spend millions on equipment we dont need and would cut something off the 98000 a year it cost to keep em in prison

That's the answer right there! They'll have it fixed by 5ish if they start now!

BostonB

Dartz wrote: »

I thought this was due to a big three-axle double decker sliding sideways down Constitution hill and nearly tipping over when it gripped at the bottom.

On the radio it was suggested they were sliding in towards bus stops due to the camber on the road. But anyway its pretty obvious safety issue there. I don't blame the buses, Its the people who didn't grit the road.

BostonB

If nothing else once they realised there was a problem, they could have got the army out, with a few trucks, and put some sand on the problem hills and bridges, that would have solved a lot of problems.

One of the problems was they did nothing till the traffic built up, then they couldn't get anywhere in the gritting lorries. Like Doh....

RobbieTheRobber

BostonB wrote: »

Most people couldn't do that why it took them 3 and 4 hours to get home.

It was completely avoidable if they simply gritted the roads.

There was no way they could grit the roads yesterday unless they did it before the snow came. Once the snow fell everybody paniced in a sky news style way. the entire city of Dublin all tried to leave their jobs around the same time. This was the time when there was snow and ice on the roads this caused traffic very slow moving traffic.

With this traffic on the roads how can anyone now get out to grit it?

We caused the problem yesterday by panicing not the government not Dublin city council not it was the peopel who were sat in traffic who caused the problem.

RobbieTheRobber

BostonB wrote: »

If nothing else once they realised there was a problem, they could have got the army out, with a few trucks, and put some sand on the problem hills and bridges, that would have solved a lot of problems.

One of the problems was they did nothing till the traffic built up, then they couldn't get anywhere in the gritting lorries. Like Doh....

They didn't let traffic build up, it happened it was unexpected.

Mossy Monk

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

it was unexpected.

No it wasn't. It was forecasted well in advance.

opinion guy

dambarude wrote: »

Surely Mary Harney could block the snow in some way?

Or migrating Inuit could use her blubber for fuel ??


I have been wondering thou. Isn't it part of the council's role to keep the roads and footpaths in good nick and ice free? So by failing to do that aren't they liable to some degree for any accidents that occur ? I mean if they were working flat out to keep them clear and coudl not then noone could reasonably expect anything more from them. But they largely have been ignoring it. If a little old dear falls on the road because she had to go to the shop to get food - couldn't she rightlyfully sue the council ? I would think paying the overtime and taking action to keep things clear woudl be cheaper than dealign with lawsuits

RobbieTheRobber

Mossy Monk wrote: »

No it wasn't. It was forecasted well in advance.

Very selective quoting there :rolleyes: I was refering to the traffic being unexpected not the weather. So unless there is traffic forecast, that Im not getting then, I dont see what your saying here!