So upset for little one but am I over reacting

ash23

Ok, so here it is.
Ex and I split 18 months ago.
He left me for someone else.Lets call her Mary.

Our 5 year old was deeply affected by it and went through a long period of self doubt and self worth. (I am fat and ugly and stupid, daddy hates me, daddy likes Mary more than me).
I brought her to counselling and they suggested that we needed a better routine with ex as it was very up in the air at the time (him texting aif he could take her). Basically the child didn't know if she was coming or going.

He refused to agree to set days, even if it was only one day a month. Eventually he agreed to one evening from 7pm to 8am the next day. Child goes to bed at 8.30pm so he gets 1 and a half hours with her per week.

I have felt in the last few months that he has been more eager to see her. He did ask last year if Mary could meet her. I agreed but said (again on professional advice) that it needed to be at a slow pace. SHe met her once for a few minutes. A week later his sister was having a family event which she wanted our daughter at. I was assured Mary wouldn't be there so I drive the child to his mums house (an hour away). Upon arrival I got a text from ex "Mary is actually off work today so will be coming". I called him and said that wasn't the agreement. He said Mary was going and if I didn't like it I should take the child home which I did. Mary has not been involved since at my request as I felt if he couldn't do it the way the counsellers had recommended then it was not to be done.

Anyway, ex arrives last week to collect the child and asks again if Mary can meet the child. I agree. We discuss the best way and decide that he can take her from saturday evening to monday morning.
That was grand. However he shares a house with a guy he barely knows (a recent development) so our daughter has been sleeping in a single bed in his room for a few weeks now. I stated that I didn't think it was appropriate that Mary and he share a room with the child for the first while anyway until the child gets to know him.
He said he'd think of something.
His solution is to put her in the cleared out walk in wardrobe. It has a window and a small radiator. No curtains or anything. It measures 1.9m x 1.8m. It was the family home so the child knows it was a wardrobe. He said he might get curtains in the summer.
Child had a dream during the week which upset her. The dream was that she went to daddys and Mary was there and they ignored her and then daddy put her on a chair outside and forgot about her and she had to sleep there.
I told him this. To me it sums up her insecurities, fears and worries.

I told him child was not being relegated to a wardrobe, even a big one. He told me that he "knew I would be unreasonable" and to forget it so.

Child was looking forward to it so is now going to be upset.
What do I do. I feel like I can't win? I'm always the bad guy and yes, sometimes I over react (moreso in the early days when I was still hurting) but I can't stomach allowing my daughter to be put in a wardrobe.
PS there are 2 other bedrooms that Mary could sleep in for the one night a month that the child will be there. He refuses this option.

Nevyn

Sounds like anything you say he will see what ever motives he wishes as being behind it.
Will he go to mediation to work out a visitation timetable a co parenting plan and that way what is and is not acceptable can be trashed out with a neutral 3rd party?

ash23

Thaedydal wrote: »

Sounds like anything you say he will see what ever motives he wishes as being behind it.
Will he go to mediation to work out a visitation timetable a co parenting plan and that way what is and is not acceptable can be trashed out with a neutral 3rd party?

No, he refused mediation on numerous occasions. He views any sort of "set" times, rules etc as me trying to get my own way.

snuggles09

..

ash23

No no no.....that was a dream that dd had about going to her daddys and meeting mary. It's not something that actually happened. I've edited OP to make that clearer. Sorry.

Thoie

Would he go see the counsellor with ye, so that he can see it's the counsellor making suggestions, and he can discuss the suitability of the arrangements with her?

ash23

Thoie wrote: »

Would he go see the counsellor with ye, so that he can see it's the counsellor making suggestions, and he can discuss the suitability of the arrangements with her?

She is no longer in counselling. She went for a few months but has been doign very well the last while and the self doubt and self worth is gone thank god. She's doing well in school and is confident and happy and outgoing. Big change to the needy wreck she was a year ago. I'm terrified of having the whole thing stirred up.
We had told her about going to her daddys and meeting Mary. It was only after I told her this that I realised the problem with the sleeping arrangements which has led to the whole thing falling apart again.

snuggles09

ash23 wrote: »

No no no.....that was a dream that dd had about going to her daddys and meeting mary. It's not something that actually happened. I've edited OP to make that clearer. Sorry.

oh jesus ash sorry. i must have read that all wrong. i'll delete what i said if you want to delete the quote:o

Quackles

Poor kid. I don't think you're overreacting. The kid would see that as being put in the wardrobe, ffs.. Not acceptable, particularly after that dream. Clearly it's on her mind. Have you told your ex about the dream? Maybe he thinks you're trying to brush Mary under the carpet or hide the relationship from the child. Explain to him again about the dream and how she's vulnerable at the moment and needs reassurance that she's still Daddy's no. 1, that it's not that you're trying to push Mary out of the picture. I'm sorry, though, what a tough position to be placed in. If you can't send her, arrange something super fun for this weekend yourself so that she thinks she didn't go to Dad's because of this other amazing event.

ash23

snuggles09 wrote: »

oh jesus ash sorry. i must have read that all wrong. i'll delete what i said if you want to delete the quote:o

No problem. Will do.

ash23

Quackles wrote: »

Poor kid. I don't think you're overreacting. The kid would see that as being put in the wardrobe, ffs.. Not acceptable, particularly after that dream. Clearly it's on her mind. Have you told your ex about the dream? Maybe he thinks you're trying to brush Mary under the carpet or hide the relationship from the child. Explain to him again about the dream and how she's vulnerable at the moment and needs reassurance that she's still Daddy's no. 1, that it's not that you're trying to push Mary out of the picture. I'm sorry, though, what a tough position to be placed in. If you can't send her, arrange something super fun for this weekend yourself so that she thinks she didn't go to Dad's because of this other amazing event.

I told him about the dream. His response was "i'd never do that" followed by the plan to put her in in the wardrobe to sleep. The child knows about Mary, however she does know she's not daddys number one which she has accepted. For eg a while ago I was trying to get a sitter and couldn't. She said "daddy can do it". I replied that daddy had plans and she said "maybe he'd cancel. Oh wait, is he going somewhere with Mary?". I said probably and she replied "oh, well he won't cancel so". It's heartbreaking.

I've asked his mum to talk to him. He'll probably freak but he's refusing to talk to me so I want to give it one last shot before telling her it's not going ahead.

Wantobe

Maybe he's putting your child's best interests at heart here- she will be secure off his bedroom whereas in a separate bedroom the other guy in the house could walk in? Not that I'm suggesting he would, but maybe your ex doesnt know him well enough and prefers your daughter to be more secure?

It could be presented as a good thing- he wants to keep her close, she's precious to him, the closer the better, he's right next to her if she needs him etc. Plus if it was decorated just for her- maybe a nice new bed set, matching curtains etc, could be cute.

I wouldn't rule it out, maybe he's being considerate? You could put a really good spin on this.

ash23

Wantobe wrote: »

Maybe he's putting your child's best interests at heart here- she will be secure off his bedroom whereas in a separate bedroom the other guy in the house could walk in? Not that I'm suggesting he would, but maybe your ex doesnt know him well enough and prefers your daughter to be more secure?

It could be presented as a good thing- he wants to keep her close, she's precious to him, the closer the better, he's right next to her if she needs him etc. Plus if it was decorated just for her- maybe a nice new bed set, matching curtains etc, could be cute.

I wouldn't rule it out, maybe he's being considerate? You could put a really good spin on this.

We made an agreement when he moved in the housemate that ex would move the childs bed into his room in order to ensure she was safe for the reasons you mentioned. This has worked fine.
He now wants to have his girlfriend (who my daughter doesn't know) in his bed in the room with him.
I don't agree with this. I would never have a man I had just introduced my daughter to in the same bedroom as her, seeing us sleep together etc. For a variety of reasons. It makes me uncomfortable, it isn't giving my daughter the best of examples etc.

The room he wants to put her into is a wardrobe. He has no intention of decorating it. He said he "might get curtains in the summer if needed". It's less than 4m squared in space. There is an empty bedroom that his girlfriend could sleep in while my daughter is there one night per month.

So yes, it is about keeping her safe. But it's also about him ensuring he gets to sleep with his girlfriend and in order to do this he is putting his daughter into a wardrobe. Even decorated it is still a square box with hardly enough room for a bed.

Just to add when I pointed out the sleeping arrangments conundrum, he tried to assure me that his housemate (who has lived there for 2 weeks) is "sound" and he was sure daughter would be fine in her own room.
I refused that theory and he came up with the wardrobe.

metrovelvet

I think your ex still views you as the enemy so anything you say will be riddled with ulterior controlling motives, ie trying to make his life difficult.

Given this is the case, I can't see how productive trying to reason with him will be.

Tell him to put Mary in the wardrobe.

Children are very aware if status and your daughter knows she has been demoted, being put in a wardrobe to sleep says it all. And no it is not appropriate for her to be sleeping in the same room as him and Mary. I think it is essential that a proper, safe both physically and psychologically, space is made for her before she spends nights there.

Sleepy

Is the girlfriend living with him? If not, surely she can stay in her own place the few nights your ex has his daughter for?

Muckie

Thats got to be rough on you and your child. Break ups are hard.
Stick to your guns. Don't know if Family court is worth going to but
might be worth a try, get everything you have agreed to in writting
and signed by both of you's.
Sound very much like he's trying to get at you any way he can.
Hope you can get it resolved for your childs sake as well as your own.
I think your bein very strong and wish you well. Don't give up.

ash23

Sleepy wrote: »

Is the girlfriend living with him? If not, surely she can stay in her own place the few nights your ex has his daughter for?

They are in an LDR. She lives about an hour away. But his reasoning behind this whole thing is that on saturday nights he wants to go and spend time with her. He is off every sunday so spends it with Mary ergo doesn't get to see dd. He will not give up his "free time" for daughter if it results in him not seeing Mary. The only reason he takes our daughter on a friday night is because he works until 7 on fri night and works sat morning and therefore can't see Mary on that night.

metrovelvet wrote:

Children are very aware if status and your daughter knows she has been demoted, being put in a wardrobe to sleep says it all.

This pretty much sums up exactly what I feel about the wardrobe. It's a status thing as opposed to a comfort thing (although a tiny bedroom isn't ideal either). I cannot imagine him saying to the child that she has to sleep in the wardrobe without it making her feel even worse about the situation.

My poor baby. I've been on the verge of tears all day thinking of someone she loves so much having so little regard for her feelings.

Also, and maybe it's because I'm a bit claustrophobic but for a child who has always had a large enough room, I can't help but feel a teeny tiny enclosed space would creep her out a bit.

metrovelvet

You know what, let him see her in her house. I dont think that level of compromise is good for the child without the child feelkng compromised, which imo means no time with daddy is better than time spent as a third wheel in a wardrobe. Its just not good enough. You dont want to establish a pattern where your daughter is always the afterthought.

ash23

Should also add, just so I amn't being misleading, that I met him when I was pregnant. We were friends first and got together just after she was born and lived together since she was a baby.
He wanted to be "daddy" and although the child knows she has a bio dad (not involved) he is daddy, his parents are granny and grandad etc. Impact of us splitting was the same to her as if he had been her bio dad.


So legally, family court etc isn't an option.

Ultimately I have the final say though I try not to be too blatant about it and have always encouraged his involvment for the childs sake.

I just didn't want anyone to feel I wasn't being upfront. This may change some posters POV so it's probably a necessary piece of info.

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

You know what, let him see her in her house. I dont think that level of compromise is good for the child without the child feelkng compromised, which imo means no time with daddy is better than time spent as a third wheel in a wardrobe. Its just not good enough. You dont want to establish a pattern where your daughter is always the afterthought.

Whose house? Marys or mine?
Mary house shares with a bunch of students.
I doubt they'd enjoy coming over to mine

metrovelvet

Ash23- What do you think would happen if he had a biological child child with a new woman? Do you think that deep down in him, because itis not a blood tie he thinks he can extricate himself from his relationship with her?

metrovelvet

ash23 wrote: »

Whose house? Marys or mine?
Mary house shares with a bunch of students.
I doubt they'd enjoy coming over to mine

I meant your if course!

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

Ash23- What do you think would happen if he had a biological child child with a new woman? Do you think that deep down in him, because itis not a blood tie he thinks he can extricate himself from his relationship with her?

He doesn't want children. But I don't think it would matter. I don't think he thinks much of anyone other than himself. He's had ample opportunity to stop seeing my daughter but has continued and like I said, the last few months have seen him soften a bit and he does genuinely seem to want to see her more. He just hasn't a clue about what is appropriate and if I disagree with something he wants to do, WW3 breaks out.

He lives around the corner from me so I guess him and Mary could come and spend Saturday evening/night in mine and then go back to his when I get in. And then he could take her on sunday morning for the day.
I can't see it happening though. I thought this thread would have established the whole "his way or no way" mentality he has

metrovelvet

I cant see him agreeing to that either. I didnt mean he should bring Mary with him either. I really dont know what you should do but things as they are are not acceptable.

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

I cant see him agreeing to that either. I didnt mean he should bring Mary with him either. I really dont know what you should do but things as they are are not acceptable.

It wouldn't be an issue if it weren't for him wanting to bring Mary. He could do as he has done every friday night and collect her, she sleeps in his room and then he drops her home.
But he refuses to take her for more than that night unless Mary can be involved although he claims he wants to see more of her. But the sleeping arrangments are an issue when she is there.

metrovelvet

Why is he insisting on Mary being involved? That's a bit odd.

ash23

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why is he insisting on Mary being involved? That's a bit odd.

He feels that he has to choose between time with her and time with the child at the mo. Which is fair enough. I can understand that. After all, thats my life! Trying to juggle dates, work, child and friends etc.

He's been with her since we split (well, since before we split :rolleyes:) so it's been 18 months. I can see why he would want her involved in some form. However, he is still insistant on putting Marys feelings ahead of the childs. Mary doesn't like the idea of kipping in the spare room once a month when child is there so child goes in the wardrobe.
Thats the part I can't bear because it'll be me picking up the pieces of a little girls ego and heart.

Neighbour55

Having been through break up where ex didn't want to see children at all for a few years, I think it was for the best because at that time, he wasn't reasonable and was in a series of casual relationships. As a mother, I wouldn't feel comfortable letting my young daughter sleep over in such a situation.. follow your instincts. Good luck moving on from this guy, sounds like its not worth dealing with him.

metrovelvet

The child is not going in the wardrobe. Eh eh. Keep things as they are for the time being.

ash23

Agreed. Child is deffo not going in the wardrobe.
If he chooses to take that as he is taking it and cuts off his nose to spite his face then so be it.

iguana

ash23 wrote: »

However, he is still insistant on putting Marys feelings ahead of the childs. Mary doesn't like the idea of kipping in the spare room once a month when child is there so child goes in the wardrobe.

What is your relationship like with Mary? Is there any way you could explain how your daughter is feeling to her in the hope that she would be more willing to understand her feelings and your reasoning more than your ex is? I know that could be extremely difficult, I'd have a hard time being polite to someone who had 'interfered' in my relationship, but it may be worth considering. Depending on how reasonable she would be.