obtaining a gun licence when immigrating from e.u

calva

Hi all I want to leave France to live in Ireland but the gun licence system is greatly different to here. I hold a "permit de chasse" which enables me to hold shotguns and rifles which I can use more or less anywhere within my area or anywhere that I am invited by another Permit holder.
As I understand it for Ireland you need land or landowners permission, how much land is necessary for unresticted shotgun licences? and how much for Rifles?
I currently have 2X 12 bore semi automatics 1 x 12 bore over and under
2 x 20 gauge over and unders x .22 semi auto and a 243 bolt action rifle.
Can anyone tell me how I can register these in Ireland or what I may have to lose (worst case).
I think probably the main issue is land??
Thanks in advance for any info
Calva

José Alaninho

calva wrote: »

I hold a "permit de chasse" which enables me to hold shotguns and rifles which I can use more or less anywhere within my area or anywhere that I am invited by another Permit holder.

Can I go live in France if you're coming over here? I'll gladly trade. :eek:

calva

If you want to put up with the rest of the french rubbish I'll swap with you.Ive had 20 yr's and it get's worse

Cass

I'm assuming you are a French National and not an Irish National returning.

A few things you may know (or not). As you have 7 firearms you fall into the top level of security required when holding that many firearms. See here for levels of security: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/announcement.php?f=466 .

Secondly, you must produce "good reason" for wanting all your firearms as in hunting, target work, etc. I notice you have mulitple firearms of the same make, model and calibre. For example you could claim that one semi-auto shotgun is for hunting while the over and under is for clay pigeon shooting, however this leaves you needing to validate the reason why you have a third shotgun (and second semi-auto).

You need permission letters from land owners to shoot the ground and validate the reason you claim you want the shotgun for. As in if you want the shotgun for hunting you must provide the permission letters or gunclub membership, if you want the shotgun for clay pigeon shooting you must provide membership details of an authorised range.

This proves true for all your firearms, shotguns and rifles. So the first question you may ask yourself is do you need all your firearms and all the security, etc that comes with it. If you decide yes then you need the Firearms certificate application form for non-nationals: http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/New%20Non-Resident%20Form%20.pdf .You will obviously need to export the firearms and have them secured (in a dealers or somewhere similar) while you bring the security details of your new house up to the level required.

Bottom line is if you intend to use the firearms for hunting only you will need permission letters or gunclub membership. You will need these prior to applying for your non-resident firearm cert as it is required information on the application.

All the above information is based on my understanding of other lads experiences, and procedures. I'm hoping someone of a higher understanding of the laws will clear up any mistakes/ommissions, etc that i may have made.

anyway, best of luck with your decisions and application.

calva

Thanks ezridax
It gives me some good links. I dont mind losing 1 semi and 1 20 gauge to come down a categorie,but it still doesnt clarify how much land is sufficient.
By the way I am not french I hold British nationality (anglo -irish)

Cass

No point in me making something up. I do not know if or how much is a minimum amount of land required. I know its not 1 or 2 acres or something silly like that. My first gun license (although some years ago) was granted on 2 permission letters totalling 64 acres (25 + 39). It passed no problem. It does not have to be a huge amount (1000+ acres) but something reasonable.

My only reason for asking about your nationality was if you were moved to France as a child and hold Irish citizenship, or if you are non-Irish. It may be a relevant piece of information when others here give you advice/options.

calva

Thanks again
It strikes me as a kind of catch 22,In order to get landowners consent you need to know some landowners I:E be in Ireland but cant be there and leave guns behind. There must be a solution I will have to try and research a bit more from here.

Grizzly 45

Leaving France to move to Ireland........:eek:
I'd stay put if I were you.....Not just because of the firearms laws.

Biggest mistake of my life,coming back here from the US for a mates wedding 18 years ago.Was only going to stay a week:rolleyes:.

It wasn't me!

calva wrote: »

Thanks again
It strikes me as a kind of catch 22,In order to get landowners consent you need to know some landowners I:E be in Ireland but cant be there and leave guns behind. There must be a solution I will have to try and research a bit more from here.

Send the guns to a dealer for storage. You might have your work cut out for you to justify all of the shotguns, but if you're applying for a deer hunting licence and have land to shoot for rabbits or whatever, the rifles will be easy enough.I'd say you would probably have to sell one of the 12GA semi-autos and one of the 20GAs. You might get a better price for them here though, where people are expecting to be ripped off. Either way, I'd say your best bet is to get the guns in storage here.

calva

sounds like reasonable advise but I wouldn't want them stuck there indefinitly.Apart from me my springers would get dead bored with no guns.

It wasn't me!

calva wrote: »

sounds like reasonable advise but I wouldn't want them stuck there indefinitly.Apart from me my springers would get dead bored with no guns.

Well you're going to have to get land permission here to shoot before you can apply for licences for the guns. It makes more sense for you to have them here rather than in France for when you do get the licences. Can't have them in your possession here until then, so they have to go to a dealer, so export direct. You don't really get to decide how long they spend there beyond ensuring your part of the application process is dealt with quickly and you collect them immediately on receipt of the licences, so your best bet is to get them here and get the wheels going as soon as possible. If you're clever, you'll wait until the end of whatever game season you have in France, as it'll be all over here in a few weeks anyway.

rowa

calva wrote: »

If you want to put up with the rest of the french rubbish I'll swap with you.Ive had 20 yr's and it get's worse

its not half as bad as this place has gone in the past while , no jobs , a corrupt incompetent government , and a justice minister that makes goebbels look like mother teresa , crime on the verge of going out of control , i'd stay put if i were you , a lot of people have moved back here especially from america and are sorry they have .

Sparks

calva wrote: »

If you want to put up with the rest of the french rubbish

The free healthcare, the shortest working week in the EU, some of the very best food and wine in the EU (and a culture of actually enjoying that food properly), a firearms licencing system that makes ours look like the make-it-up-as-you-go mess it actually is, some of the best martial arts training facilities in the world, and most of the european states a short trainride away for a weekend break? That rubbish?

calva

Thanks for your advise IT WASN'T ME, I am looking to make the move in the next 6months just gathering info to see what I'm up against first.What you say makes sense,maybe go straight for the clubs to start with but I prefer just me and dogs maybe a freind but apart from clays im not really into the organised shoots.
If anything like here more disorganised shoots.

Victor

calva wrote: »

my springers

You will need to look into pet passports, quarantine, etc.

calva

Well Sparks I d'ont know where you get your info,Healthcare is a long way from free,shortest working week, coz there is no work for non french nationals, unless you make your own then its the longest working week to pay all the charges, which you pay whether you earn or not. O.K easy enough to hold guns once you have completed the written and practical tests which cost a lot, shooting 2 days a week thursday and sunday from 9 till 5 unless you pay through the nose no shooting when there is actually animals about. The good food is if you can afford it, you can get cheap wine though.you are spot on with the trains though

calva

Thanks Victor I'm on to that one

Sparks

calva wrote: »

Well Sparks I d'ont know where you get your info,Healthcare is a long way from free

Compared to the HSE's solution over here?

shortest working week, coz there is no work for non french nationals, unless you make your own then its the longest working week to pay all the charges, which you pay whether you earn or not.

That's okay, we have a solution - no jobs for anyone at all....

O.K easy enough to hold guns once you have completed the written and practical tests which cost a lot, shooting 2 days a week thursday and sunday from 9 till 5 unless you pay through the nose no shooting when there is actually animals about.

Except for class C and D firearms, which you need less paperwork for from all I've been told - whereas here, until four years ago, you needed a fullblown firearms licence for anything, from fullbore rifles to spud guns. And now we've banned entire classes of firearm and whole sports. Not to mention that every application for a licence is, has, and probably always will be something done on the basis of the local Super's whims. I think you've got the better deal Plus, you can't get a visitor's permit here, which really obstructs the easy running of international matches, or even of getting the N.Ireland guys to come down (with one or two sole exceptions).

The good food is if you can afford it, you can get cheap wine though.

The thing with affording good food is that it takes less there than it does here, because at least you have some - there's feck all produced in Ireland of the same quality. Bresse chickens, for example - we've nothing like them here, not unless you raise and slaughter your own. Hell, we can't even grow pigs without some idiot trying to feed them plastic. And as to cooking... well, you know how every other nation on earth, regardless of how poor they were, developed its own unique local cuisine to make the best of what they had, from curry in India to Mexican food, to Texas's chilli, to Italy's osso buco, and so on? And how those dishes turned the cheapest food available to really delicious and nutritious meals that today are seen as the very height of gastronomic excellence? Yeah, well, we've got spuds. And cabbage. And sometimes bacon boiled to within an inch of its life. And cooking has been something nobody ever paid attention to (at least until very recently). Hell, until I learnt to cook for myself I thought pork was white because my mother (and hers and hers before that) used to cook it to the consistency of shoe leather "just to be safe"...
Blech. Give me any other country's cuisine over Ireland's lack of it thanks!


Ahem.
Yeah, you might have hit a nerve there actually

you are spot on with the trains though

My father worked in Geneva for a few years and that (taking the trains around europe on the weekend) was one of the things he used to rave about. Can't blame him either - I mean, get on a local train in the morning and have lunch in Milan or Berlin or Madrid or Amsterdam? Brilliant!

calva

Well Sparks
I thought this forum was about shooting not a social,political and financial problem page.
So can you tell me how much land is necessary to obtain a permit, or would you prefer to tell me where I am best off living.(Which is probably nowhere in europe)

Sparks

calva wrote: »

Well Sparks
I thought this forum was about shooting not a social,political and financial problem page.

I know, but you mentioned food

So can you tell me how much land is necessary to obtain a permit

Sadly, nobody can. It's always down to however much the local Superintendent thinks is needed. You can get rough estimates or guesses, but there just isn't an actual real answer out there. You could always join a target shooting club for the rifles and a clay pigeon club for the shotguns of course, but that's not what you want to do with all of them I presume. You might find the big red announcement at the top of the forum has some useful information in it by the way. And since you're moving here, ignore all the stuff about non-resident licences. Just leave the firearms with a dealer, come over here, get the licences as a resident from your local Gardai, and then have them shipped in. It'll be a lot easier to do from over here than from over there. You can find all the forms online (and this might be of some use but remember it's mainly aimed at target shooting licences).

would you prefer to tell me where I am best off living.(Which is probably nowhere in europe)

(It's in europe, but not the EU - Switzerland )

calva

Thanks for the helpfull links. It sounds like here, everything at some beaurocrats discretion.
If you look back I think you will find that you mentioned food first!!

Sparks

calva wrote: »

Thanks for the helpfull links. It sounds like here, everything at some beaurocrats discretion.

I'm afraid it's like there, but worse

If you look back I think you will find that you mentioned food first!!

Doh! I guess it really is a sore point with me

calva

It cant be worse for beaurocracy.
I had a look at the form,how do I get a character ref in a country where I dont know anybody?
ooh I'm getting hungry now

Sparks

Use family members? That's what most of us have to do. That or other members of the club.

calva

Kieran I am not great with computers did you get my message

riflehunter77

A short term solution might be join one of Gun ranges were you can do both clay and target shooting. Not to sure how many ranges around suitable for centerfire work but there is one that jumps to mind.
As times goes on and you establish yourself in the new area and you get to know the local farmers and local gun clubs you may get permission to shoot over their land.

calva

Yes thanks rifle 77 I think thats pretty much what sparks is suggesting as well could be a good starting place.

Grizzly 45

[Yeah, you might have hit a nerve there actually :DMy father worked in Geneva for a few years and that (taking the trains around europe on the weekend) was one of the things he used to rave about. Can't blame him either - I mean, get on a local train in the morning and have lunch in Milan or Berlin or Madrid or Amsterdam? Brilliant!

[/QUOTE]

Compared to getting on a cattle car...ooopsss...High speed modern Inroad Eireinn train in Dublin and wanting to go to Limerick a mere 130 miles away,which takes in Europe appx 30 mins[Amsterdam/The Hauge would be comparable]. And needing the time of a trans atlantic flight to NYC [six hours] to do so should tell you the state of the transport system.Which would give a good inkling of the state of the nation.

Any country that allows you to posses a fully operable Main battle Tank on a firearms cert,and simply as a condition of issuance for the permit that you drop off the Breech block and firing controls at your local police station for safe keeping when you are not using your tank on the range is fine by me.You can do this in France.Cant even do that in the USA!!
Not to mind their police force and customs salute civillians when their duty is done with you.Anyone ever had that experiance here??Makes you feel all nice and important and appreciated.Even if you are a foreigner!!!:D.

I'll swop that anytime!!

calva

Where do you people get this stuff?
Maybe theres another France somewhere that I've been missing this last 20 years.
Perhaps I should try walking through the back of my warbrobe

rowa

calva wrote: »

Where do you people get this stuff?
Maybe theres another France somewhere that I've been missing this last 20 years.
Perhaps I should try walking through the back of my warbrobe

forgot to mention in my last post , if you do move back here , be careful that you don't buy a house in a flood plain ,
aren't military calibres banned or restricted in france , eg 9mm luger, 45acp etc ?

Grizzly 45

From your own French shooting websites..:D.
No not banned just provide good reason as to why you need a military calibre.
Hence the reason 10mm,300 winchester mag,and .222 are pretty common,last time I looked.
On buying houses,careful you dont buy one too far away from a road mind..You might yourself trapped for aweek or two by an inch of snow or frost,cos we forgot to stock up on salt for the roads.