gormless minister

DDigital

Noel Dempsey should be fired if he's not back behind his desk tomorrow.

spongeman

Dempsey should be fired now, along with the gob****e thats in charge of DCC.

I was in Ringsend today and the old ladies trying to get around was a bloody disgrace. I was so angry.

edward croker

This is what happens when a country becomes such a "Nanny State" that the "sheeple" accept whatever is thrown their way. Can you imagine if there was a real disaster natural or otherwise? How effective would the government response be? The response to the recent flooding and now this cold snap is nothing short of a scandal.
I used to laugh when I'd hear people 2-3 years ago talking about "richest country in Europe" etc. The truth is that unfortunately Ireland's F****ed.
How can there not be enough salt for the roads? The person responsible should be immediately relieved of their position.
But what will happen is nothing, because the people get the government they deserve.

slimjimmc

eth0_ wrote: »

It feels like our government has completely given up on this country.

There is a ten fold increase in A&E visits at the moment because of the ice. Huge numbers of people are literally trapped in their houses.

The roads authority says it's the local councils job to grit pavements and minor roads.
The councils say it's the responsibility of the roads authority. And where is our transport minister? On holiday! Transport links in the country are at crisis point and he doesn't feel like cutting his holiday short. He should be forced to resign.

The ridiculous thing is, it's such a small amount of ice and snow causing these problems. We must be the laughing stock of Europe.

We're far from the laughing stock of Europe. Ireland is not unique in finding this abnormal cold spell difficult to deal with. The UK with it's vastly greater resources is also severely affected and has the same problems. All day today Sky News and other UK news broadcasts have been reporting exactly the same problems of dangerous icy unsalted roads, only a few days left in their deminishing salt stocks, dangerous/difficult travelling conditions, footpaths not salted and a 10-fold increase in A&E due to slips and falls. They've also been asking the same questions, why was this allowed to happen, when is going to end, what happens when the salt runs out. The answers were also the same... doing our best, weather unprecidented, etc.

People complain so much about what the council/gov haven't done in preparation for this situation, some justified, some not. I ask what have the people done to prepare themselves. How many motorists have fitted winter tyres or snow tyres? How many people have stocked up on food and fuel to avoid going out, or have generators in case of power failure? There's a lot people can do to help themselves in these conditions. Life seems to go on in other countries where roads/paths are snowed and frozen.

DDigital

The general concensus at county council level is that the usual winter supply of grit was used up in a much shorter timescale due to the "freakish" weather. This is accepted by many and then backed up with hum drum economics. However, it is abundantly clear that existing stocks of grit were always inadequate anyway as over the last number of years we have seen micro versions of the current weather and no gritting done.

As far back as I can remember, even a three day ice event, caused chaos on the roads with insufficient gritting carried out. I once took this up with a local councillor during the celtic tiger years. He shrugged his shoulders and told me that this aspect of council activity is considered minimal due to the low level of incidence. I was also told that in my area, there is no particular monitoring of weather forecasts and gritting, when carried out, is usually a reactive measure after the ice has taken over the roads. The approach was one of look/see/react.

It is a proven fact that Ireland is prone to frosty conditions in winter. Snowfall is not as common. As a nation we have consistantly failed to deal with icy conditions on our roads despite the massive increase in council budgets during the good times. This poor reaction from the state has nothing to do with money and more to do with an absence of any proper plan or will to deal with emergency situations.

I note that the current forecast is predicting heavy snowfall for Sunday, just as we run out of grit. While its still far from an accurate forecast, I really do hope it doesn't happen as it will cause undue hardship to so many. The Government may well be happy to refer to this weather as unprecedented, but its increasing our heating bills and making it difficult for many of us to work which makes it difficult to pay the heating bill. A simple analogy I know, but if its made a little easier for us in work terms, then we can muddle through it. The Government have a duty to help us use the infrastructure and carry out our jobs. So far they have failed in that duty and ignored the very obvious productive cost to the country.

spongeman

Good post there.

After new years eve the government needed to be ready, and they just hoped for the best.

They were guessing.

BrianD

DDigital wrote: »

The general concensus at county council level is that the usual winter supply of grit was used up in a much shorter timescale due to the "freakish" weather. This is accepted by many and then backed up with hum drum economics. However, it is abundantly clear that existing stocks of grit were always inadequate anyway as over the last number of years we have seen micro versions of the current weather and no gritting done.

As far back as I can remember, even a three day ice event, caused chaos on the roads with insufficient gritting carried out. I once took this up with a local councillor during the celtic tiger years. He shrugged his shoulders and told me that this aspect of council activity is considered minimal due to the low level of incidence. I was also told that in my area, there is no particular monitoring of weather forecasts and gritting, when carried out, is usually a reactive measure after the ice has taken over the roads. The approach was one of look/see/react.

It is a proven fact that Ireland is prone to frosty conditions in winter. Snowfall is not as common. As a nation we have consistantly failed to deal with icy conditions on our roads despite the massive increase in council budgets during the good times. This poor reaction from the state has nothing to do with money and more to do with an absence of any proper plan or will to deal with emergency situations.

I note that the current forecast is predicting heavy snowfall for Sunday, just as we run out of grit. While its still far from an accurate forecast, I really do hope it doesn't happen as it will cause undue hardship to so many. The Government may well be happy to refer to this weather as unprecedented, but its increasing our heating bills and making it difficult for many of us to work which makes it difficult to pay the heating bill. A simple analogy I know, but if its made a little easier for us in work terms, then we can muddle through it. The Government have a duty to help us use the infrastructure and carry out our jobs. So far they have failed in that duty and ignored the very obvious productive cost to the country.

I disagree the notion that central government is to blame here. Though it is looking increasingly likely that they will have to step in and put the boot in with the councils.

The plan is in place and simple. The councils get out and do their job. There's no mystery here. It's the same in any other country. We have a local authority network who deal with this type of problem in their area. The best placed to do it and thats why we have them. Similarly, we have regional organisation of civil defence and gardai and other bodies. This is the best way to deal with this type of "emergency". Is it an emergency? Definitely not.

Really what needs to happen as soon as we have the thaw is that alot of these fat councillors and their council management need to be called to book for their mis management. Primetime are talking about people living up bohereens, Perhaps if councillors weren't so liberal with their one off housing planning permission we might be able to better look after them.

DDigital

slimjimmc wrote: »

We're far from the laughing stock of Europe. Ireland is not unique in finding this abnormal cold spell difficult to deal with. The UK with it's vastly greater resources is also severely affected and has the same problems. All day today Sky News and other UK news broadcasts have been reporting exactly the same problems of dangerous icy unsalted roads, only a few days left in their deminishing salt stocks, dangerous/difficult travelling conditions, footpaths not salted and a 10-fold increase in A&E due to slips and falls. They've also been asking the same questions, why was this allowed to happen, when is going to end, what happens when the salt runs out. The answers were also the same... doing our best, weather unprecidented, etc.

People complain so much about what the council/gov haven't done in preparation for this situation, some justified, some not. I ask what have the people done to prepare themselves. How many motorists have fitted winter tyres or snow tyres? How many people have stocked up on food and fuel to avoid going out, or have generators in case of power failure? There's a lot people can do to help themselves in these conditions. Life seems to go on in other countries where roads/paths are snowed and frozen.

With the greatest of respect to you and I mean that, you must realise that what the UK is experiencing is far worse than us in weather terms. Ireland has consistantly failed to deal with moderate winter weather. What we are experiencing is only unprecedented in length and it was forecast. Nobody expects every little byway to be treated, but yesterday a capital city ground to a halt due to a few cms of snow. Similarly last year the N7 at Rathcoole was crippled by an intense snow shower that was forecast. No prior gritting was carried out and commuting chaos was the result. As a nation we must accept that the Government have no idea how to cope with extreme weather. Nor do they want to prepare the country for it.

Since I was a child perlonged sunny weather causes water shortages and frost causes deplorable road conditions and rain causes floods. When does a Government step up to the plate and address it longterm. After the big snow of 82 we bought a couple of snowploughs as a result of inquiries into how the country was at a standstill. Nothing else was achieved out of all that talk shop nonsense.

I agree wholeheartedly with your points on what people can actually do for themselves to make things easier and safer. But ultimately its up to a Government to have plans and actions ready to go and information systems in place to educate the public. We manage it for speeding/drink driving etc.

Apologies for these long posts but I guess Im as angry and frustrated by all this as others are. Just trying to throw my 2 dollars worth in.

spongeman

They need to get out and do their job.

Couldnt have put it any better.

DDigital

BrianD wrote: »

I disagree the notion that central government is to blame here. Though it is looking increasingly likely that they will have to step in and put the boot in with the councils.

The plan is in place and simple. The councils get out and do their job. There's no mystery here. It's the same in any other country. We have a local authority network who deal with this type of problem in their area. The best placed to do it and thats why we have them. Similarly, we have regional organisation of civil defence and gardai and other bodies. This is the best way to deal with this type of "emergency". Is it an emergency? Definitely not.

Really what needs to happen as soon as we have the thaw is that alot of these fat councillors and their council management need to be called to book for their mis management. Primetime are talking about people living up bohereens, Perhaps if councillors weren't so liberal with their one off housing planning permission we might be able to better look after them.

I agree with what you are saying, but the overall policy of reaction must be Government driven. For example Kildare CC have a road safety campaign and promote it locally. But it was instigated at Government level in conjunction with the RSA and adopted by the council. We really cannot have a situation whereby individual councils are left to do as the please when situations of national importance are at stake. A classic example is the case of the M7. Gritted by SDCC as far as Blackchurch. Then gritted by KCC from there to Monasterevin. But Laois CC didnt grit their section of it.

eth0_

slimjimmc wrote: »

How many motorists have fitted winter tyres or snow tyres? How many people have stocked up on food and fuel to avoid going out, or have generators in case of power failure? There's a lot people can do to help themselves in these conditions. Life seems to go on in other countries where roads/paths are snowed and frozen.

Oh would you cop on! Where exactly can you buy snow tyres in Ireland? They're not exactly a regular feature in your local Halfords :rolleyes:

Life goes on in countries that are used to this sort of weather, because they DO have snow tyres, and they DO have adeqate supplies of salt.

As another poster has said, you cannot begin to compare the weather in the UK to here. The UK has been hit much harder than us, yet they are coping better. They're not on top of it, but they're definitely doing better than us.

Take a look at Dublin. Not one road gritted in the city centre. Yesterday cars were spinning out and hitting each other on Winetavern street (that steep road from Christchurch to the Liffey). Surely the brainiacs in the council realised this road in particular would be a death trap when covered with ice - I mean it's only located directly next to Dublin council HQ. But no. No grit. And it took an hour for the Gardai to arrive and close the road after cars began spinning and crashing.

The response to this weather and the recent flooding it so embarrassing. I'm sick of the Irish philosophy of "Ah sure, it'll be grand in a few days!" and "Sure it's not my responsibility". God forbid Ireland suffers a major disaster - our government and councils are full of shambling morons.

bmaxi

DDigital wrote: »

Noel Dempsey should be fired if he's not back behind his desk tomorrow.

Dream on. Although I would agee that Dempsey is inept, what he has done / not done is miniscule compared to the monumental f*ck ups of his boss and he's still there. FF don't do firing.

DDigital

bmaxi wrote: »

Dream on. Although I would agee that Dempsey is inept, what he has done / not done is miniscule compared to the monumental f*ck ups of his boss and he's still there. FF don't do firing.

Your dead right.;)

mysterious

Anyone up for a protest, I feel mighty fnie for this. And Noel Dempsey is scum as the rest of them. Hes the biggest ego sucker in there. He does NOTHING. He never did anything for this country, but get the M3 ploughing through the Tara valley. The road is also a toll monopoly

eth0_

mysterious wrote: »

Anyone up for a protest, I feel mighty fnie for this.

This might be a non-runner considering how difficult it is to get into Dublin

JHMEG

eth0_ wrote: »

Why the hell aren't they ordering salt from the salt mine in this country? :mad: And why did they leave it so late to order more salt when we've been in this situation for three weeks?

For a start it produces 3,000 *TONNES* per day, and secondly - why are we sending taxpayer's money to Spain when that money could be kept within the island of Ireland by using the Irish salt mine in N.Ireland?

We are getting a small amount, basically what they have left after they satisfy their UK customers' needs.

Anyone see Gormley on Primetime a while ago? His reasoning about why the Army haven't been called in was a bit old skool: it's not his call, it's up to the local authorities.

The Dublin City manager should be sacked yesterday and the Army should have been called in by the Minister.

DDigital

Local authorities are a disater but ultimately its down to a Government to Govern and they are passing the buck quicker than a flu in a lift.

eth0_

DDigital wrote: »

Local authorities are a disater but ultimately its down to a Government to Govern and they are passing the buck quicker than a flu in a lift.

Exactly! The government is the boss of the local authority. If the local authority aren't doing their job it is the government's responsibility to ensure they do.

There's going to be a lot of people suing local authorities for personal injuries, damaged vehicles etc as a result of this cold snap. Not to mention the additional cost to the HSE if they've been taking on locums and agency nurses to help out in over-stretched A&E departments.

Capt'n Midnight

snappieT wrote: »

SURELY the economic cost of people not being able to get to work, damaging their cars* in crashes and having difficulty to get into town to do some shopping is far far greater is higher than the cost of putting a bit of grit on the roads...

*inb4 "the repair cost will add to GDP" nonsense

unfortunatly that is not a direct cost to the local authorities


the problem with a lot of this country is the bean counters only look at there specific area, look at the whole health system and how much could be saved by giving everyone a yearly checkup instead of waiting until it's very expensive

Capt'n Midnight

DDigital wrote: »

Noel Dempsey should be fired if he's not back behind his desk tomorrow.

according to the paper his road was gritted

Capt'n Midnight

bmaxi wrote: »

This question was asked of, I think, the Wexford County engineer, he said it blocks the drains.

You can't remove sand from beaches - read the signs.

crocro

I am really enjoying this weather. It's really bright compared to a normal Irish winter day. Took the kids out on a sled yesterday. I gritted the road outside the house and cleared the ice from the path with a shovel. I got some lessons a few years ago in driving on ice and that's working out fine. Got my thermals, gloves hat. Doing some work from home.

Airport still operating mostly, trains still running. Kids are off school and its reminding me of the early 80s when we all had time off to play in the snow because the school boilers failed. This time they just shut the schools for no reason but to have a few days off and why not - they're kids. Feeding the birds out the back and watching them out the window.

Excuse to call into the older relatives tomorrow and see they have their supplies. Great bargains in the shops because there's no customers. It won't last for long - it never does but these are happy days.

parsi

eth0_ wrote: »

Oh would you cop on! Where exactly can you buy snow tyres in Ireland? They're not exactly a regular feature in your local Halfords :rolleyes:

Out of stock but there close relations are sold by local Halfords -

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=snow+tires&x=0&y=0&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1

I can understand the anger over the main roads but the issues regarding broeens and indeed housing estates do worry me . If folk want to live at the far end of a country road then they should be in a position to take some steps to secure their road.

In an estate what's wrong with taking out a shovel and clearing the bit in front of your house ?

Retailers why not clear in front of your shop ?

Farmers you've the greatest fleet of AWD vehicles in the country so why not go and clear your own roads (then again ye leave it to the rest of us to clear off the muck from your vehicles) ?

There are _some_ areas where we can make a difference and don't need the council to swoop in.

I can imagine the whining next year when some paper /councillor / TD discovers that the councils have 6,000 tonnes of grit stored in order to avoid a re-occurrance of this years problems.

BrianD

parsi wrote: »

Out of stock but there close relations are sold by local Halfords -

http://www.halfords.ie/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchCmd?srch=snow+tires&x=0&y=0&action=search&storeId=11101&catalogId=15551&langId=-1

I can understand the anger over the main roads but the issues regarding broeens and indeed housing estates do worry me . If folk want to live at the far end of a country road then they should be in a position to take some steps to secure their road.

In an estate what's wrong with taking out a shovel and clearing the bit in front of your house ?

Retailers why not clear in front of your shop ?

Farmers you've the greatest fleet of AWD vehicles in the country so why not go and clear your own roads (then again ye leave it to the rest of us to clear off the muck from your vehicles) ?

There are _some_ areas where we can make a difference and don't need the council to swoop in.

I can imagine the whining next year when some paper /councillor / TD discovers that the councils have 6,000 tonnes of grit stored in order to avoid a re-occurrance of this years problems.

Your spot on.

We are Irish are great. We don't prepare, we know it's going to happen and then we have this righteous indignation and we want someone to blame (usually the government because then we're not offending anyone we know).

We complain about the footpaths but in other countries citizens and businesses clear their footpaths. Plenty of people seem to be very eager to claim the parking space outside their home/business but don't seem to be rushing out to clear the pavement. I noted a merc parked on the pavement at a well known band on pearse st., Dublin but no eveidence of clearing the pavement. A number of Dublin pubs have started clearing their pavements and fair play to them.

In regard to grit storage, I believe it is is non-perishable but needs to be dry stored as the sal will leach out of it. Any TV coverage of gritting in the north shows them taking the grit out of these giant dome shaped stores.

foggy_lad

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/ireland/nra-tasked-with-securing-salt-supplies-441073.html

Meanwhile, pressure is mounting on Transport Minister Noel Dempsey to return from holiday to deal with the situation.

Minister Dempsey went away on Monday and is not due back to work until the weekend.

Fianna Fáil TD Mattie McGrath is calling on him to return and said he has been unable to reach the Minister in recent days, despite numerous attempts to contact him by phone and email.

Where is the Minister for Transport?

Cookie_Monster

foggy_lad wrote: »

Where is the Minister for Transport?

WTF is he going to do anyway other than give excuses.
probably more useful having him out of the way instead of wading into the situation to help out constituants and cronies first

DDigital

BrianD wrote: »

Your spot on.

We are Irish are great. We don't prepare, we know it's going to happen and then we have this righteous indignation and we want someone to blame (usually the government because then we're not offending anyone we know).

We complain about the footpaths but in other countries citizens and businesses clear their footpaths. Plenty of people seem to be very eager to claim the parking space outside their home/business but don't seem to be rushing out to clear the pavement. I noted a merc parked on the pavement at a well known band on pearse st., Dublin but no eveidence of clearing the pavement. A number of Dublin pubs have started clearing their pavements and fair play to them.

In regard to grit storage, I believe it is is non-perishable but needs to be dry stored as the sal will leach out of it. Any TV coverage of gritting in the north shows them taking the grit out of these giant dome shaped stores.

Whats wrong with justified rightgeous indignation. Im not complaining about the footpath outside my house. I cleared it and the driveway. But I can understand why people who have to walk long distances to work or public transport are complaining. But its not up to them. Its up to the house and business owners along the path to show some cop on and clear it. I am annoyed by the standard of reaction from county councils and central Government and I have very justifiable reasons to be. I don't expect a massive clearance of ice, but I do expect an organised response to it. So Im holding tight on blaming local and central Government.

I think we need to recognise the distinct differences between some "righteous indignation". A lot of it is justified. If we are going to start lambasting those who are suffering from rightgeous indignation and/or just complaining we may as well put up the closed sign. All of us have a role to play in improving the conditions. From clearing the footpath outside your business/home to not making any unnecessary journeys. But we should not lose sight of the inadequacies of Government.

Cookie_Monster

DDigital wrote: »

All of us have a role to play in improving the conditions. From clearing the footpath outside your business/home to not making any unnecessary journeys. But we should not lose sight of the inadequacies of Government.

I clear footpath outside my property
person slips on a small bit I missed
Person sues me because that the kind of ****ty society we live in now
I'm forced to pay 5-10k for trying to do a good deed.

This is why people refuse to take responsibility for it!

Sponge Bob

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I clear footpath outside my property
person slips on a small bit I missed
Person sues me because that the kind of ****ty society we live in now
I'm forced to pay 5-10k for trying to do a good deed.

That is the actual advice given to schools and hospitals by their own insurance company. If you miss a bit you become liable. If you leave it alone it is an act of God . Common decency has no standing in Irish Law or in Noel Dempseys world.

The trick, of course , is to wear a balaclava at all times while clearing footpaths or gritting sideroads and pavements and then you are not liable

By the way they found Dempsey relaxing in the hot tub on holidays , this just in by email .

eth0_

foggy_lad wrote: »

Where is the Minister for Transport?

Ok, if he had maybe been keeping in touch with his staff while on holiday then maybe..maybe that could be forgiven. But the guy isn't returning calls or emails? He should have no job to return to. Cowen needs to grow a pair and sack this man ASAP.