Sub 2.30 marathon? Suits you sir!

kennyb3

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

smmoore79

kennyb3 wrote: »

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

Supposed to be running my long runs 80% slower than goal pace. Would ideally like to pace the marathon at 6 mins 45 secs So 7 mins seems about right according to the plan. Admitedly i did the first few today a tad quick but i felt good and didnt look at the Garmin too much..

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

Maybe have a word with krusty and some of teh sub 3 boys, im not as fast as you but you are doing all your long runs at marathon pace or within 20 seconds which seems nuts to me

Marathon pace runs are good but in moderation. This pace should be done roughly once or twice a week. The difference between these and slower "aerobic" running can give many of the same benefits while allowing the body to recover and the glycogen stores to replenish

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

Supposed to be running my long runs 80% slower than goal pace. Would ideally like to pace the marathon at 6 mins 45 secs So 7 mins seems about right according to the plan. Admitedly i did the first few today a tad quick but i felt good and didnt look at the Garmin too much..

I built up my pmp miles in the lsr's...i never did 12 straight.
In week one i did 18 at 7:30p,following week i did the first 17 @ 7:30 and the last at 6:45...i gradually week after week built it up to doing 20 w/15 @ 7:30 and the last 5 around 6:30p.....
My other long run during the week was riddled with pmp miles.
I could do 15m like this,1m @ 7:30,2m @ 6:40 repeat that for the 15m or when i was really progressing i did 3m easy then 3x5m @ 6:40 ( 2min jog recovery inbetween ) and 2 easy.
There are loads of variations...but the key is you dont need to bang them all out together.

In total i did 136 miles between 6:35 and 6:45 in 13 weeks and that takes in taper for the wexford half i did,the recovery week after that and 2 weeks taper before the marathon....

For Dublin last year i was doing runs like your 12m there and was told that it was unneccessary,and it was proven right.

Quote from Arthur Lyniard ....Train...Don't Strain

tisnotover

Sosa wrote: »

I built up my pmp miles in the lsr's...i never did 12 straight.
In week one i did 18 at 7:30p,following week i did the first 17 @ 7:30 and the last at 6:45...i gradually week after week built it up to doing 20 w/15 @ 7:30 and the last 5 around 6:30p.....
My other long run during the week was riddled with pmp miles.
I could do 15m like this,1m @ 7:30,2m @ 6:40 repeat that for the 15m or when i was really progressing i did 3m easy then 3x5m @ 6:40 ( 2min jog recovery inbetween ) and 2 easy.
There are loads of variations...but the key is you dont need to bang them all out together.

In total i did 136 miles between 6:35 and 6:45 in 13 weeks and that takes in taper for the wexford half i did,the recovery week after that and 2 weeks taper before the marathon....

For Dublin last year i was doing runs like your 12m there and was told that it was unneccessary,and it was proven right.

Quote from Arthur Lyniard ....Train...Don't Strain

Coming from the other side of the camp here.

I'd disagree with Sosa here and see the marathon-paced run as being a separate entity from the long-slow run.

It would be nice to finish a LSR with a couple of PMP miles if you can, or as close as you can get, but, the LSR should be done over hills and it'll be difficult to keep PMP over a hilly route.

Examples of PMP would be like you did with straight-PMP miles or else to split it into intervals of say 3*3miles progressing to 4*3miles, etc.

For me i'd keep the mar-paced run separate...but there are different ways to skin a cat !

ecoli

tisnotover wrote: »

It would be nice to finish a LSR with a couple of PMP miles if you can, or as close as you can get, but, the LSR should be done over hills and it'll be difficult to keep PMP over a hilly route.

Only thing i could say about this is the DCM course not exactly fully flat:D

kennyb3

ecoli wrote: »

Marathon pace runs are good but in moderation. This pace should be done roughly once or twice a week. The difference between these and slower "aerobic" running can give many of the same benefits while allowing the body to recover and the glycogen stores to replenish

Not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my point really in quoting my comment above.

my point for SM was that he is starting his training program and doing his first real runs over 10miles in long time and he is knocking out 12 miles in and around PMP at the start of a training program. that seems nuts. surely at this stage about 3-6 should be at pmp and the rest should be quite a bit slower. sosa mentions 7.30, id be think for SM he d be looking at least that given he doesnt have a history of long runs

tisnotover

ecoli wrote: »

Only thing i could say about this is the DCM course not exactly fully flat:D

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

ecoli

tisnotover wrote: »

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

My plan incorporates MP miles in the LSR however the idea is to only use this every second week rather than every LSR however my plan does include alot of HM paced sessions during the week also. The idea is race simulation should be a part of the training plan but it should not be the primary focus, this should be (safe) aerobic development

Sosa

tisnotover wrote: »

True...but wouldn't fancy trying to do it here:;)
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/34092494

To get back on topic ecoli, I'd like to see what you've planned for the 3hr mentoring thread, will it be the LSR with PMP mile plan or keeping the LSR and PMP runs separate ??

I would be very surprised if ecoli takes my route with his mentoring program,it was tough...and got very tough near the end,but it paid massive dividends for me and i any marathon i do in the future,i will be following the same plan just doing the pmp miles faster.

tisnotover

Sosa wrote: »

I would be very surprised if ecoli takes my route with his mentoring program,it was tough...and got very tough near the end,but it paid massive dividends for me and i any marathon i do in the future,i will be following the same plan just doing the pmp miles faster.

I would agree with ya 100% there. There is no reason for you to change your training plan. It worked for you and will work again!

(sorry smmore for going off-topic here a bit)

smmoore79

Wow, lots of advise here since i logged off yesterday! Thanks for your idea's/suggestions. Literally Im following PD advanced to the letter. Personally id be hoping for a marathon pace of 6 40 to 6 45. So according to the plan, my LSR's should be approx 80% of planned marathon pace. So Im doing them at 7 mins (though i did get through the first few miles a little on the fast side yesterday :rolleyes:). Maybe going foward I'll mix paces up a little so im not hitting 7 minute miles consistantly.

My plan for this week has me down for a Sunday LSR of 13 miles (8 at marathon pace). So how would you guys approach this? Should i be rattling out 8 x 6 45 minute miles with a 5 x 7's or pull back a little and hit 8 x 7 minutes along with 5 x 7 30's?

kennyb3

smmoore79 wrote: »

Personally id be hoping for a marathon pace of 6 40 to 6 45. So according to the plan, my LSR's should be approx 80% of planned marathon pace. So Im doing them at 7 mins (though i did get through the first few miles a little on the fast side yesterday :rolleyes:).

perhaps you could explain the above maths

ecoli

kennyb3 wrote: »

perhaps you could explain the above maths

I think kennyb is right 80% of marathon pace means that you should be adding on 1 min 20 secs to your MP

MP - 6.40 or 400 secs
20% of 400 secs - 80 secs
LSR pace - 480 secs or 8 min pace ???

smmoore79

ecoli wrote: »

I think kennyb is right 80% of marathon pace means that you should be adding on 1 min 20 secs to your MP

MP - 6.40 or 400 secs
20% of 400 secs - 80 secs
LSR pace - 480 secs or 8 min pace ???

Yes, youre maths looks correct. Maybe 80% is wrong, it probably said 90%. I'll have to check my PD book later when i get home from work as i wrote my pace calculations in it beside what rates i should be running at. I did the calculations a couple of months ago, but id say I based on 6 30 increased up to 7.15 at 90%, then i just rounded down to 7. Have now changed my planned marathon pace to 6 40/45 as 6 30 might be a bit too quick. But i havent changed my LSR pace calculation. So 6 45 turns to 7 24 lsr pace if its 90%. That would look about right.. Thanks for checking my calc though as i pressumed it was all ok and correct (ps im an accountant so maths should be a strong point )

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

Yes, youre maths looks correct. Maybe 80% is wrong, it probably said 90%. I'll have to check my PD book later when i get home from work as i wrote my pace calculations in it beside what rates i should be running at. I did the calculations a couple of months ago, but id say I based on 6 30 increased up to 7.15 at 90%, then i just rounded down to 7. Have now changed my planned marathon pace to 6 40/45 as 6 30 might be a bit too quick. But i havent changed my LSR pace calculation. So 6 45 turns to 7 24 lsr pace if its 90%. That would look about right.. Thanks for checking my calc though as i pressumed it was all ok and correct (ps im an accountant so maths should be a strong point )

Regardless of anyones planned pmp,your LSR's while training for a marathon should be at least 45 secs a mile slower than what you plan to do on the day,you are currently doing 15secs slower which is way to fast,the person who done out my program for me wanted me to do 8 min mile LSR's but i went with 7:30 (45s slower) and that felt like i was going backwards,dont fall into the trap of doing them to fast,it will come back to bite you,i did that type of training for dublin last year and i blew up after 20 as i hadnt trained the body to burn fats.

Its not called a Long Slow Run for nothing....


But you are your own man,you make the decision.

kennyb3

Sosa wrote: »

Its not called a Long Slow Run for nothing....


But you are your own man,you make the decision.

+1, this is my whole point and why i raised the whole issue. SM is clearly talented and fast but if he keeps running his long runs at marathon pace he will prob suffer burnout or injury.

smmoore79

Thanks Sosa/Kenny,

Whilst I am my own man and will ultimately decide my pace, its good to hear other points of view pointing out potential errors with my pace. My pace/calculation might have been slightly flawed so I'll go back to the drawing board to recalculate my various training paces (aerobic, recovery, LSR, half marathon etc) tonight. Am thinking 7 24 should be my LSR pace (based on PMP of 6 40-45), better to find out now early on than on race day whilst blowing up!

smmoore79

This weeks training;

Mon 21 Rest
Tue 22 8m w 10 x 100
Wed 23 Rest
Thu 24 10m (aerobic)
Fri 25 Rest
Sat 26 5m recovery
Sun 27 13m (8 @ marathon pace)

smmoore79

Adjusted paces for marathon training;

LSR 7 min 25
Aerobic 7 min 40
VO2 5 min 36 secs
Lactic Thresh 6 mins
Recovery 8 mins
PMP 6 min 40 secs

Any comments/advice welcome as always

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

Adjusted paces for marathon training;

LSR 7 min 25
Aerobic 7 min 40
VO2 5 min 36 secs
Lactic Thresh 6 mins
Recovery 8 mins
PMP 6 min 40 secs

Any comments/advice welcome as always

That looks good.....

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 21 Rest
Tue 22 8m w 10 x 100
Wed 23 Rest
Thu 24 10m (aerobic)
Fri 25 Rest
Sat 26 5m recovery
Sun 27 13m (8 @ marathon pace)

Had other commitments on tuesday so had to do my 8 miles and 10x100metres this evening. The plan was to keep the the miles at 7 40. These were supposed to be easier than my previous 7 min miles but i found them tougher!! Maybe it was coz i started straight from the office after a hard day at the races. I finished the 8 miler in Herbert park to start into my 10 x 100m. Didnt know the exact distance but ran the length of a footy pitch and a little extra. As P&D suggested, I slowly increased speed until i was at full pelt 75% into the sprint; then in the last quarter I slowed back down. Took a 20 second break between each 1. These seemed much easier than the 8 miler. Recorded the following on my run;

1 7 11 (a bit fast)
2 7 47
3 7 40
4 7 45
5 7 33
6 7 45
7 7 42
8 7 45

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

1 7 11 (a bit fast)
2 7 47
3 7 40
4 7 45
5 7 33
6 7 45
7 7 42
8 7 45

By doing miles at that pace you will be fresh for your key sessions every week,which are the ones that will ultimately decide wether you break 3hrs or not,doing them at 7:15 will only make your key sessions harder and wont do you any benefit at all.
Patience is the key...i was told that early in my program and it is hard to do but hold back on easy days and let go on key sessions...and sub 3 is there for the taking.

smmoore79

Sosa wrote: »

Patience is the key...i was told that early in my program and it is hard to do but hold back on easy days and let go on key sessions...and sub 3 is there for the taking.

Yeah, i really wanted to let loose towards the end, even though my legs were a little sore. My brain was tellin me that they were sore coz i was running slower than normal and that if i sped up, the pain would go!! Sounds weird but thats how the brain was thinking at the time. Lucky i had my trusty Garmin to keep me in check and keep a steady aerobic pace :rolleyes:

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 21 Rest
Tue 22 8m w 10 x 100
Wed 23 Rest
Thu 24 10m (aerobic)
Fri 25 Rest
Sat 26 5m recovery
Sun 27 13m (8 @ marathon pace)

Didnt get to do yesterdays 10m aerobic. Still felt a little tired from switching my Tues tempo run to Wed and my inside right calf felt sore like a bruised feeling. It feels ok now and Ive got my strength back but now Ive got a predicament! Do i now;
1) run 10m today, 5m rec sat and 13m LSR on Sun as per my plan.
2) Or do I run less than 10m today, 5m rec Sat and 13 LSR Sun
3) Or do i run 10 today, drop/reduce Sat rec run and 13mile Sun??????????

Sosa

smmoore79 wrote: »

Didnt get to do yesterdays 10m aerobic. Still felt a little tired from switching my Tues tempo run to Wed and my inside right calf felt sore like a bruised feeling. It feels ok now and Ive got my strength back but now Ive got a predicament! Do i now;
1) run 10m today, 5m rec sat and 13m LSR on Sun as per my plan.
2) Or do I run less than 10m today, 5m rec Sat and 13 LSR Sun
3) Or do i run 10 today, drop/reduce Sat rec run and 13mile Sun??????????

Dont under estimate the value of the recovery run....with that in mind i would do option 2.
6/7m easy today
5m no faster than 8:00 pace on Sat
13m easy on Sunday,and if you felt good,the last 2m of that @ pmp,you should finish feeling fresh,not tired.

I sound like a coach here,just relaying to you what helped me along for Cork.

smmoore79

Sosa wrote: »

Dont under estimate the value of the recovery run....with that in mind i would do option 2.
6/7m easy today
5m no faster than 8:00 pace on Sat
13m easy on Sunday,and if you felt good,the last 2m of that @ pmp,you should finish feeling fresh,not tired.

I sound like a coach here,just relaying to you what helped me along for Cork.

Cheers for the advice. I know option 1 of doing everything was is out of the cards as id be wrecked!! 7 miles tempo sounds manageable tonight and wont wreck me too much. The only thing is that my planned 13 miler this Sunday should include 8 marathon pace miles according to my PD training plan!!!! Im thinking maybe to just do 4 towards the end (miles 9-12) and mile 13 at an easy pace...

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 21 Rest
Tue 22 8m w 10 x 100
Wed 23 Rest
Thu 24 10m (aerobic)
Fri 25 Rest
Sat 26 5m recovery
Sun 27 13m (8 @ marathon pace)

Fri 25th. Because i postponed thursdays run til Friday, I lowered the mileage of this so as to make me refreshed come Sundays LSR. So completed 7.08 miles instead.
1 7 24
2 7 33
3 7 57
4 7 35
5 7 27
6 7 36
7 7 33 and then a final .08 miles extra!

Sat 26th, 5.2 miles recovery
1 8 07
2 7 56
3 7 57
4 7 55
5 7 54 and an extra .2 miles

Roll on tomorrows 13 miler

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks training;

Mon 21 Rest
Tue 22 8m w 10 x 100
Wed 23 Rest
Thu 24 10m (aerobic)
Fri 25 Rest
Sat 26 5m recovery
Sun 27 13m (8 @ marathon pace)

Sun 27th 13 miles. Had a few too many last night so wasnt feeling on top form today. Lazed about the house for most of the day, but luckily i convinced myself to get my @ss out the door! Said to myself i'd play this run by ear and see how i feel as i went along. Got 8 miles done and didnt feel too bad even though the wind out on eastwall was a killer. So decided to up the pace. Recorded the following miles, was very happy finishing the 13 miles and the times werent bad considering a lot were on grass and sand;

1 7 18
2 7 14
3 7 27
4 7 24
5 7 22
6 7 22
7 7 17
8 7 19
9 6 54
10 6 43
11 6 40
12 6 45
13 6 41

smmoore79

This weeks madness;

Mon 28 Rest
Tue 29 BHAA 5km(3m) trail race in the Phoeno
Wed 30 4 mile recovery
Thu 01 10 miles aerobic
Fri 02 Rest
Sat 03 4 mile recovery
Sun 04 14 mile LSR

Total mileage for week 35 miles

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks madness;

Mon 28 Rest
Tue 29 BHAA 5km(3m) trail race in the Phoeno
Wed 30 4 mile recovery
Thu 01 10 miles aerobic
Fri 02 Rest
Sat 03 4 mile recovery
Sun 04 14 mile LSR

Total mileage for week 35 miles

Tue 29th BHAA 5km trail run.

Im never eating in the canteen again! Stomach felt very dodgy after and was in the jacks more times than i was sitting at my office desk :eek:. So felt a bit weak. gave the race a bash anyway, if worst comes to worst I can pull out or jog the thing. So the hooter signalled the start and i shot off. It was a bit tight on the trail at the start so had to run tru the long grass to overtake. First mile went well (5 36). My strategy was to go off fast and hang on til the end, so far so good. Second mile was tougher (5 46) At this stage, out of nowhere the 2 leading ladies krept up either side of me which startled me a little. Felt like I was bein hunted down by 2 predators :-). So upped the pace a little, where the leading lady followed (i think she was a Polish lass). Half a mile left, just the 2 of us and i felt boll0xed. The lack of energy from my stomach problem was starting to really kick in, why didnt i have pasta for lunch?!?!? She pulled a metre ahead, and i was clinging on to the ropes. Looked at my Garmin and it said 2.8 miles gone so that gave me a phsycological boost and I burst ahead of her. Have to say she was good motivation for me to keep goin at a good pace coz i would have tailed off a little towards the end. Last mile was 5 56 and then there was 0.1 miles extra. Finished in 17 mins 56 secs. Not my best 5km time but overall 15th position from 205 men and women. I would have liked to run this feeling better (my splits of negative 10 secs every mile tells a tale), but hey, I cant complain with my position!

tisnotover

smmoore79 wrote: »

Tue 29th BHAA 5km trail run.

Im never eating in the canteen again! Stomach felt very dodgy after and was in the jacks more times than i was sitting at my office desk :eek:. So felt a bit weak. gave the race a bash anyway, if worst comes to worst I can pull out or jog the thing. So the hooter signalled the start and i shot off. It was a bit tight on the trail at the start so had to run tru the long grass to overtake. First mile went well (5 36). My strategy was to go off fast and hang on til the end, so far so good. Second mile was tougher (5 46) At this stage, out of nowhere the 2 leading ladies krept up either side of me which startled me a little. Felt like I was bein hunted down by 2 predators :-). So upped the pace a little, where the leading lady followed (i think she was a Polish lass). Half a mile left, just the 2 of us and i felt boll0xed. The lack of energy from my stomach problem was starting to really kick in, why didnt i have pasta for lunch?!?!? She pulled a metre ahead, and i was clinging on to the ropes. Looked at my Garmin and it said 2.8 miles gone so that gave me a phsycological boost and I burst ahead of her. Have to say she was good motivation for me to keep goin at a good pace coz i would have tailed off a little towards the end. Last mile was 5 56 and then there was 0.1 miles extra. Finished in 17 mins 56 secs. Not my best 5km time but overall 15th position from 205 men and women. I would have liked to run this feeling better (my splits of negative 10 secs every mile tells a tale), but hey, I cant complain with my position!

I like the bit in bold ! nice racing !

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks madness;

Mon 28 Rest
Tue 29 BHAA 5km(3m) trail race in the Phoeno
Wed 30 4 mile recovery
Thu 01 10 miles aerobic
Fri 02 Rest
Sat 03 4 mile recovery
Sun 04 14 mile LSR

Total mileage for week 35 miles

Wed 30 Jun 4 miles recovery at 8 min pace.
Ran these at around 8 20 pace, still finding it weird to run at this pace. Legs felt tired from Tuesdays race. They feel a little better now (possibly due to rec run) but i hope i have energy for tonights 10 miler at 7 40 pace.. A day sitting in the office should help :rolleyes: Must read up on the theory behind recovery runs!

smmoore79

tisnotover wrote: »

I like the bit in bold ! nice racing !

Pic of me bein hunted down by the top 2 women predator style!!!!

seanynova

hey man, good luck with the training and at the very least, getting away from the women!
im planning on doing amsterdam, a week before dublin so ill be keeping an eye on your training, you might be a little faster than me but have similar goals(my PMP runs will be based on 2:55, but my main goal is to finish sub3)....good luck again

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks madness;

Mon 28 Rest
Tue 29 BHAA 5km(3m) trail race in the Phoeno
Wed 30 4 mile recovery
Thu 01 10 miles aerobic
Fri 02 Rest
Sat 03 4 mile recovery
Sun 04 14 mile LSR

Total mileage for week 35 miles

Thur 1st Jul 10 miles aerobic.

Still felt tiredness in th calves from Tuesdays race and the rec run on Wed. But not enough to make me stop or anything like that, just an uncomfortable feeling. Decided to take in the 1.3 miles of east wall and 1.3m back. Not sure if running on these Granite slabs is helping my muscles strengthen or wrecking them?! Dont feel injured anyway. Not the most enjoyable run ive ever done, after 5 miles I got bad heartburn and then with 3 miles left my bowels started to loosen up seriously!! Was a panicky last 2 miles to say the least :eek: Felt a bit drained after though felt better once i did my stretches and ate some dinner. Ive today off as a rest day and a small recovery run on Saturday so I should be well rested for Sundays 14 miler..

1 7 36
2 7 24
3 7 28
4 7 35
5 7 33
6 7 37
7 7 33
8 7 37
9 7 42
10 7 32

smmoore79

seanynova wrote: »

hey man, good luck with the training and at the very least, getting away from the women!
im planning on doing amsterdam, a week before dublin so ill be keeping an eye on your training, you might be a little faster than me but have similar goals(my PMP runs will be based on 2:55, but my main goal is to finish sub3)....good luck again

Thanks Seany, good luck with Amsterdam. to be honest I just wanted to have a little buffer under 3 ie 2 55. But I have no idea how the marathon will go so 2 59 will be a great achievement too!

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

This weeks madness;

Mon 28 Rest
Tue 29 BHAA 5km(3m) trail race in the Phoeno
Wed 30 4 mile recovery
Thu 01 10 miles aerobic
Fri 02 Rest
Sat 03 4 mile recovery
Sun 04 14 mile LSR

Total mileage for week 35 miles

Sat 03 4 miles recovery done and dusted.

Sun 4th 14 miles. Did this a bit hungover, had a fair whack of beers yesterday so was pleased just to get out and run the whole thing. Didnt have my Garmin with me so couldnt exactly judge the pace. Had g peded the route so knew the exactly the distance was 14 miles. The route kept to Sandymount Dublin bay and east wall areas. Needless to say the wind was a killer especially running back from eastwall lighthouse. It was like a wall of wind and id say my pace must have been 11 minute miles! Got through the 14 miles in 1 hour 44 mins. Happy enough with the time, the wind (and hangover :rolleyes:) really slowed me down. Job done anyway!

Overall happy to get through week 3. 35 miles in total and no injuries, yes!!!

smmoore79

Week 4 of my marathon training - already!! Feel a slight strain in my upper left glute. Have it ages and so far it hasnt stopped me. Hopefully upping the mileage again wont strain it further..

Mon 5th Rest (need it after yesterdays 14 miler)
Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic + 10 x 100 strides (7 min 40 sec pace/build up to sprint at 75 metres mark and then gradually reduce speed)

Wed 7th 5 miles recovery (8 min pace)
Thur 8th 10 miles aerobic (7 min 40 sec pace)
Frid 9th Rest
Sat 10th 4 mile recovery (8 min pace)
Sun 11th 15 miles Long run (7 min 25-30 sec pace)

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Mon 5th Rest (need it after yesterdays 14 miler)
Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic + 10 x 100 strides (7 min 40 sec pace/build up to sprint at 75 metres mark and then gradually reduce speed)
Wed 7th 5 miles recovery (8 min pace)
Thur 8th 10 miles aerobic (7 min 40 sec pace)
Frid 9th Rest
Sat 10th 4 mile recovery (8 min pace)
Sun 11th 15 miles Long run (7 min 25-30 sec pace)

Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic w 10 x 100m

Got through this, though the left leg felt a bit tight. A slight strain in my upper left glute and the area behind my left knee. Can still run through the strain, but its annoying. The only thing of note on the run was that at mile 7 I almost swallowed a bumble bee, yes a bumble bee :eek: the fecker flew into my mouth, luckily i was breathing out and my mouth was closing, he got lodged in between my lips where i instinctively coughed and spat like crazy!! i could still sense the fur an hour after the run!!! 10 x 100 felt good, a real confidence booster if anything, especially coz i felt a bit mentally fatigued after 8 miles. runs tend to be tough straight after work. recorded the following splits;

1 7 32
2 7 26
3 7 24
4 7 37
5 7 41
6 7 30
7 7 46
8 7 32

smmoore79

Was meant to do 5 miles easy at 8 minute miles but due to time constraints did 4 at 8 minute miles. Dont think the extra mile would have made a huge difference..... I hope!!

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Mon 5th Rest (need it after yesterdays 14 miler)
Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic + 10 x 100 strides (7 min 40 sec pace/build up to sprint at 75 metres mark and then gradually reduce speed)

Wed 7th 5 miles recovery (8 min pace) 4 miles done!
Thur 8th 10 miles aerobic (7 min 40 sec pace)
Frid 9th Rest
Sat 10th 4 mile recovery (8 min pace)
Sun 11th 15 miles Long run (7 min 25-30 sec pace)

A nice enough 10 miler. That morning i saw Mary Cullen, she's taller in real life than i expected?! She ran very smoothly and was goin at a nice pace. Noticed her posture was fairly straight with her arms slightly high. So decided that id try and copy her running style. So went running yesterday evening after work. Had to stop after 1.5 miles to meet the brother for 10 minutes, hopefully that didnt skew the benefits of the run. Continued on 10 mins later and felt ok. had my arms slightly higher like Mary which was actually forcing my back to be straight. took a little getting used to but i didnt notice after a while. Wasnt too tired when the run finished (maybe coz of me stopping to meet the bro for 10 mins and then after 5 miles nature called in Irishtown nature reserve!). Following splits recorded.

1 7 22
2 7 30
3 7 33
4 7 30
5 7 33
6 7 31
7 7 34
8 7 32
9 7 27
10 7 23
0.23 miles to counter my stoppage @ 7 20 average pace

Not sure if this posture correction will benefit me, time will tell. 15 miles this Sunday so i'll run Mary cullen style again!

seanynova

smmoore79 wrote: »

Not sure if this posture correction will benefit me, time will tell. 15 miles this Sunday so i'll run Mary cullen style again!

be careful man, trying out something new on a 15m run might cause injury....

i read somewhere that haile gebrselassie has his left arm bent in an awkward angle when running, this is because when he used to run to school, he would hold his school bag under his arm...point being, everyone has their own style.

anyway if you were going to try a posture change, do it on a few shorter runs first maybe?

smmoore79

seanynova wrote: »

be careful man, trying out something new on a 15m run might cause injury....

i read somewhere that haile gebrselassie has his left arm bent in an awkward angle when running, this is because when he used to run to school, he would hold his school bag under his arm...point being, everyone has their own style.

anyway if you were going to try a posture change, do it on a few shorter runs first maybe?

Yeah, the last thing i want is a dumb injury at this stage. So am careful to listen to my body as best i can while running. Didnt feel any negative side effects on Thursdays 10 miler and 4 mile recovery run this morning went well. Im more focusing on keeping my back straight than what i do with the arms, but it so happens that with my arms kept tight to the body and elevated a little my back straightens more. The problem with me is that i slouch a lot and carry that through on my runs. Wouldnt say its good for running economy or breathing technique!

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Week 4 of my marathon training - already!! Feel a slight strain in my upper left glute. Have it ages and so far it hasnt stopped me. Hopefully upping the mileage again wont strain it further..

Mon 5th Rest (need it after yesterdays 14 miler)
Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic + 10 x 100 strides (7 min 40 sec pace/build up to sprint at 75 metres mark and then gradually reduce speed)

Wed 7th 5 miles recovery (8 min pace)
Thur 8th 10 miles aerobic (7 min 40 sec pace)
Frid 9th Rest
Sat 10th 4 mile recovery (8 min pace)
Sun 11th 15 miles Long run (7 min 25-30 sec pace)

Sat 10th - 4 miles recovery at 8 minutes pace. I did this in exactly 32 minutes and zero seconds! Now thats pacing. I challenge anyone to do a training session in Exactly the same time they plan to run it in

smmoore79

smmoore79 wrote: »

Mon 5th Rest (need it after yesterdays 14 miler)
Tue 6th 8 miles aerobic + 10 x 100 strides (7 min 40 sec pace/build up to sprint at 75 metres mark and then gradually reduce speed)
Wed 7th 5 miles recovery (8 min pace)
Thur 8th 10 miles aerobic (7 min 40 sec pace)
Frid 9th Rest
Sat 10th 4 mile recovery (8 min pace)
Sun 11th 15 miles Long run (7 min 25-30 sec pace)

Sun 11th 15 miles lsr. ah 15 miles, seems like a landmark distance on the road to 26.2! Also the run itself felt a bit physically and mentally tougher than the 14 miler last week. Decided to alter my route a little. Ran from Lansdowne road out to UCD and around the track twice. Then on to Sandymount promenade from there, followed by a run out to Eastwall lighthouse(length of Eastwall is 1.2 miles of granite out and obviously the same again back!). Am starting to really like that stretch of the run. Then from there back through Irishtown nature reserve and around Sean Moore park a couple of times and back to ballsbridge area. Started off way too fast in this run due to the fact that i was using high 5 recovery drink for the first time and thought id be invinsible after sipping on it! Plus my route took me through the first few miles on road. The road race brain kicked in, luckily i copped on and started to slow things down.

1 7 15
2 6 38
3 6 36
4 7 02
5 6 56
6 7 14
7 7 22
8 7 23
9 7 15
10 7 12
11 7 19
12 7 16
13 7 12
14 7 18
15 7 10 then 0.12 miles at 7 25 average pace.

smmoore79

This week, I will be mostly runnning...........................

Mon12 Rest
Tue13 5 mile recovery
Wed14 5k BHAA road race at Irishtown stadium
Thu15 10 mile aerobic (hope Im not too tired for this)
Fri16 Rest
Sat17 5 mile recovery
Sun18 16 mile LSR(some miles at pmp)

According to the program, i should do 10 miles of the LSR at pmp. Though i think this is a lot.

I will deffo reduce the amount, maybe try 6 pmp's for size. But for this run should i focus on doing the pmp stage on road? Just as a psychological boost?

seanynova

good session on sunday! nice splits....how did the posture change work for you?

also, you run a lot of short races, do you skip tempo and race every now and then?

i might do a 8k next week to guage my fitness, but im not sure how to work it into the programme without sacrificing something but also doing too much that week stressful running that week.

smmoore79

seanynova wrote: »

good session on sunday! nice splits....how did the posture change work for you?

also, you run a lot of short races, do you skip tempo and race every now and then?

i might do a 8k next week to guage my fitness, but im not sure how to work it into the programme without sacrificing something but also doing too much that week stressful running that week.

Thanks! It was a tough enough session esp with the sun at 12. I tried not to constantly think too much about my posture, just to be aware when i start to slouch. Plus looking towards the horizon helped me keeo a decent posture.

Yep Id do short distance races every 2 to 3 weeks. Ive a 5km tomorrow in fact. When doing any short distance race, you need to sacrifice 1 day during the week. For me, its the tempo run that needs to go (eg 8 miles w 10 * 100metres). Usually my schedule is Tempo on Tuesday, Recovery run Wed, Aerobic run Thur, Recovery on Sat and LSR on Sun. But coz that race is Wednesday, Im dropping Tuesdays Tempo and moving Wednesdays rec run to Tuesday. Though this means Im doing 2 hard sessions in a row (Wed race and Thur aerobic). This could backfire a little - or a lot!! So far Ive juggled races with marathon training ok. Obviously on other weeks I would follow the marathon training schedule to the letter..

seanynova

i read in daniels book that doing 2 hard sessions in a row is ok sometimes, if bypasses the delayed muscel soreness syndrome or something like that, just make sure you are well rested and recovered for sundays LSR/PMP, this is your key session for the week! if i were you i would try the 10m @ PMP as per P&D(even if they were @6:52m/m for sub3purposes), its a building process to the marathon, so really this should be your priority this week.

good luck tomorrow night anyway!