Affirmative Action in the Defence Forces?

DeCoR18

What do people make of this?

The Chief of Staff has undertaken a review of enlistment into the Defence Forces at all levels and as a result the Defence Forces have begun to implement a number of changes, which will further facilitate the recruitment and retention of people from ethnic and cultural minorities

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0647/D.0647.200802190060.html

So will standards be lowered for minorities at the expense of capable Irish men and women in order for the Defence Forces to seem like a "diverse" organisation?

Morlar

DeCoR18 wrote: »

What do people make of this?



http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0647/D.0647.200802190060.html

So will standards be lowered for minorities at the expense of capable Irish men and women in order for the Defence Forces to seem like a "diverse" organisation?

As I see it any kind of 'affirmative action' equals flat out discrimination against for the most part white christian males. From what is posted there however it is vague and unclear, it could just mean advertising in particular publications but it could also mean a lot more than that.

DeCoR18

Morlar wrote: »

As I see it any kind of 'affirmative action' equals flat out discrimination against for the most part white christian males. From what is posted there however it is vague and unclear, it could just mean advertising in particular publications but it could also mean a lot more than that.

Absolutely agree with you. Its complete Marxism with white christian males being the bourgeois that need to be toppled.

Its a shame that this kind of thinking seems to be penetrating Irish society.

But like you said it could be a smaller issue.

troubleshooter

DeCoR18 wrote: »

What do people make of this?



http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0647/D.0647.200802190060.html

So will standards be lowered for minorities at the expense of capable Irish men and women in order for the Defence Forces to seem like a "diverse" organisation?

Most likely, thats what has happened overseas, be it in the armed forces, Police and even fire brigade.

DeCoR18

Really? No other opinions on this? Thought alot of people would of had very strong opinions on it.

troubleshooter

President Obama has today announced plans to tax Asprin at 40%

When questioned he said, "Look, they're white and they work!"


...............Enough said.:D

old_aussie

i guess he doesn't want a sleeper terrorist shooting up the people.

Just look what Political Correctness did for all the people killed in the US by the military muslim headshrink.
Then signs were on the cards about this guys nutcase comments and potential actions well before all hell broke lose. PC was the cause.

Standards will be raised, more stringent tests will be made to find the good people, and means like pay rises and bonus systens will be used to keep good people, just like any boss who wants to keep good staff

The main thing is to filter-out the not so good people.

lapsed

old_aussie wrote: »

i guess he doesn't want a sleeper terrorist shooting up the people.

Standards will be raised, more stringent tests will be made to find the good people, and means like pay rises and bonus systens will be used to keep good people, just like any boss who wants to keep good staff

The main thing is to filter-out the not so good people.

Lot of assumptions in there ?

Gunny Hartman

Standards will not be lowered in a bid to recruit people from minority backgrounds. There are still fitness tests to pass and medicals to be completed, the powers that be will not change the requirements for these based on race or creed. It's preposterous to think that this is even a remote possibility. It won't promote any reverse discrimination in my opinion because we all know canvassing does qualify any way. :rolleyes:

GH

realismpol

Fox news much?

lapsed

Gunny Hartman wrote: »

It won't promote any reverse discrimination in my opinion because we all know canvassing does qualify any way. :rolleyes:

GH

More assumptions. False in my opinion. How many cadets do you know ?

cushtac

lapsed wrote: »

More assumptions. False in my opinion. How many cadets do you know ?

Out of the 6 PDF officers I personally know, only one had any family connection to the DF & none had any other 'pull'.

lapsed

cushtac wrote: »

Out of the 6 PDF officers I personally know, only one had any family connection to the DF & none had any other 'pull'.

Exactly. Too much nasty stuff about the DF around from begrudgers.

Gunny Hartman

It was a joke lads, hence the smiley face.

SamuelFox

In terms of “affirmative action/positive discrimination” the Defence Forces have a long history – just look at the treatment of female soldiers (by the authorities at least). Females are given slack on physical and fitness standards, and the DF adopt a deliberate policy of conceding military efficiency in favour of diversity and equality. For a clear illustration of this look at the criteria the Defence Forces used to justify the reduction in the height requirement – despite medical and scientific concerns about combat efficiency the DF decided that equality trumped all that and allowed smaller people to enlist, solely to expand the proportion of females eligible. Have a look at the Ministers speech (available online here: http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Speech+ID/D2FEF695C3C5139B802571A00028DA34?OpenDocument )

On the cadets’ point, “pull”, whether family, political, sporting or whatever has a huge impact in selecting people for the Defence Forces, both at Officer and OR grades. If not, explain the huge number of families in the DF? I remember a photo of newly arrived Cadets in the Cadet School in the late 1990s and the caption pointed out the relatives they had the DF already – a Sgt Majors son or daughter stuck in my mind, and there was a huge proportion of that class that had family links. Officers will all tell you they had no pull and they won it fair and square, but is that really something you can rely on? They are hardly going to admit to it! Far better is to talk to Officers about other people in their class, and the “pull” will soon be revealed.

Dismissing concerns about corruption and nepotism as “begrudgery” is such a cop out. Its that attitude that brought us to where we are today – the attitude that of ignoring the elephant in the room for fear we might ruffle some feathers. In hindsight, was it begrudery to question the golden circle in Anglo, or the feather-bedding in FÁS? At the time it certainly was, maybe not so much now. The dogs on the street know that the public service has corrupt recruiting practices, and its time something was done.

lapsed

SamuelFox wrote: »

In terms of “affirmative action/positive discrimination” the Defence Forces have a long history – just look at the treatment of female soldiers (by the authorities at least). Females are given slack on physical and fitness standards, and the DF adopt a deliberate policy of conceding military efficiency in favour of diversity and equality. For a clear illustration of this look at the criteria the Defence Forces used to justify the reduction in the height requirement – despite medical and scientific concerns about combat efficiency the DF decided that equality trumped all that and allowed smaller people to enlist, solely to expand the proportion of females eligible. Have a look at the Ministers speech (available online here: http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Speech+ID/D2FEF695C3C5139B802571A00028DA34?OpenDocument )

On the cadets’ point, “pull”, whether family, political, sporting or whatever has a huge impact in selecting people for the Defence Forces, both at Officer and OR grades. If not, explain the huge number of families in the DF? I remember a photo of newly arrived Cadets in the Cadet School in the late 1990s and the caption pointed out the relatives they had the DF already – a Sgt Majors son or daughter stuck in my mind, and there was a huge proportion of that class that had family links. Officers will all tell you they had no pull and they won it fair and square, but is that really something you can rely on? They are hardly going to admit to it! Far better is to talk to Officers about other people in their class, and the “pull” will soon be revealed.

Dismissing concerns about corruption and nepotism as “begrudgery” is such a cop out. Its that attitude that brought us to where we are today – the attitude that of ignoring the elephant in the room for fear we might ruffle some feathers. In hindsight, was it begrudery to question the golden circle in Anglo, or the feather-bedding in FÁS? At the time it certainly was, maybe not so much now. The dogs on the street know that the public service has corrupt recruiting practices, and its time something was done.

Well, my lad became a cadet from school. And if you knew his background you'd know that the DF were far from his upbringing. Another lad he played rugby against on a regular basis in the schools competitions applied and was turned down... and his father was/is a commandant ! Last years class only had 4 girls - at least one of whom was backclassed. Your argument would seem to imply that having a relative in the DF should be a BAR to joining ???
If you look at the French civil service, most of their top recruits are taken from the elite Ecole Superieur.. and their civil service can runm high speed trains and nuclear power stations. Hauling people off the streets into jobs they have no knowledge of isn't the answer to corruption. Reward and status for DELIVERY is.