Homeless man in ennis sleeps in a tent during the cold spell

Dr Kamikazi

CptSternn wrote: »

They could go to their embassy, or ring it even, and get a free flight home.

The fact they want to stay when there is no work, they don't speak the language, and have a drinking problem shouldn't be our problem.

Should Ireland put up all alco's from across the globe who come here and don't speak the language or work because they are drunk all the time?

It would be one thing if they had a family and were just out of work, but they 'were working' and what? Spent all their money on drink and now want everyone else to support them?

I'm all for supporting anyone who needs help, if they are willing to help themselves. Coming to a country where you don't speak the language, not working, getting sloshed and pissing away every opportunity given to you does not entitle you to a free ride.

I moved to Clare six years ago. I busted my arse doing whatever work I could find just to pay for a room in the hostel, for nine months. I lived on about €15 a week and never claimed social welfare even though I could have. Today I work, have a house (I rent) and a family I support. No one gave me anything, and I never asked for it. I also sure as **** did not piss away the small amount of money I did have on drugs and/or alcohol. If I had, then I would have gotten myself back on the plane and fecked off back to where I came from.

Oh great, another "I've made it up the ladder on my own, so now I'm going to step on anyone's fingers who looks like they're coming onboard" selfmade smug b*stard.
Let me tell you something sunshine.
I came over here in the 90's as a foreigner, busted my arse, lived in holes, half starved in Dublin and was nearly (but thankfully never) kicked out of my flat cause I couldn't pay the rent.
Not everyone is as self reliant and capable, some people have issues, it's called looking after and caring for your fellow human beings.
I refer you to my earlier post that you obviously didn't read, you just read the first post and pasted your ill thought out, thickheaded claptrap on at the end just to be obnoxious, well, well done, you win the "most obnoxious post of this thread award", please go to Ennis Electrical to claim your price, one inflatable washing machine, tell 'em Kamikazi send you, they'll know.

And one thing you obviously didn't know:
Embassies will listen to your problem, let you use the phone and then turf you out.
That's it. They are not responsible for accommodation, flights, catering or finding you work.

Sundew

Should Ireland put up all alco's from across the globe who come here and don't speak the language or work because they are drunk all the time?

London,Manchester,Liverpool & many other cities have been putting up with poor drunken Irish for years !!!! I have loads of relatives over there involved in various Irish Associations. I hear all the stories about Joe Bloggs and Johnny Doe from Mayo & Clare. Their families at home wouldn't have a clue what way they had lived over the years! The Older Irish community in the U.K know everything about each other as they only mixed and worked in the same circle.

Perhaps there should be a better support network from their own community down West.I do know they have good support networks with the local Polish Church etc in Dublin but perhaps it's not so down West

The vast majority of workers who have come here are fine upstanding people. I work with lots of Eastern Europeans and they work a damn site harder then many of my Irish workmates I work with. I would be alot more concerned with the local thugs who might knock you unconcious (or a lot worse) on the streets of Ennis tonight!

BLITZ_Molloy

Damn.. when you look at those Polish figures then them being in their own country would not necessarily be a better option. They seem to be doing a pretty poor job of providing for their own citizens.

Respect to firesidechat for helping them out.

It's true that there ought to be an emergency support system for people in the sort of fatal temperatures we have at the minute. You don't want to encourage every homeless person in the world to set up shop here, but we should provide them with what they need to be safe.

Builderfromhell

firesidechat,
Well done firesidechat.
It would take a lot of courage to take a stranger into your home for what might be an indefinite period and easier to talk about helping than to actually do anything.
Hope you will be happy witht he situation.

CptSternn

Dr Kamikazi wrote: »

Oh great, another "I've made it up the ladder on my own, so now I'm going to step on anyone's fingers who looks like they're coming onboard" selfmade smug b*stard.
Let me tell you something sunshine.
I came over here in the 90's as a foreigner, busted my arse, lived in holes, half starved in Dublin and was nearly (but thankfully never) kicked out of my flat cause I couldn't pay the rent.
Not everyone is as self reliant and capable, some people have issues, it's called looking after and caring for your fellow human beings.
I refer you to my earlier post that you obviously didn't read, you just read the first post and pasted your ill thought out, thickheaded claptrap on at the end just to be obnoxious, well, well done, you win the "most obnoxious post of this thread award", please go to Ennis Electrical to claim your price, one inflatable washing machine, tell 'em Kamikazi send you, they'll know.

And one thing you obviously didn't know:
Embassies will listen to your problem, let you use the phone and then turf you out.
That's it. They are not responsible for accommodation, flights, catering or finding you work.

I'm all for supporting anyone who wants to come here and make a life for themselves, no matter who they are or where they are from. But does that mean everyone gets a free ride if they are too lazy to fend for themselves? We are not talking about a man forced out of his country because of some political turmoil, issues with the government, or other situation. We are talking about lads who made a CHOICE to fly here, then because couldn't find work or anyone that would hire them because they are unskilled, don't speak the language, and are drunks - and expect society to now coddle them.

There is plenty of work in Ennis now for anyone who wants to do odd jobs for a few bob. Any pub in town will let you sweep up for €20. Most shops have the same deal - on delivery day shops and pubs will let you load or unload stuff for a few bob as well. Then there is the building sites. If you want to get a job working security I know for a fact there is always a need for people to work on building sites as security. Thats one thing I did for some time. And all you need is a few bob to stay at the hostel. If you sweep up one night at a pub or work one night at a building site thats a days worth of food and a place to sleep.

Thats what I did, I I still talk to the nice people who helped me out and they have said they still are always looking for lads to help out.

At the end of the day, these people made a choice to come here, they were not forced. The fact they are unskilled drunks should not be everyone elses problem. I'm all for helping those in need, but if I flew to say America or Australia today with no money, no job, no friends or family,and I didn't speak the language would I expect everyone else to give me a hand out just because I didn't like the scenery here anymore?

Again, I think anyone coming here to make a life for themselves should be helped by the community. Anyone coming here that doesn't work, pisses away their money on drugs and alcohol, and never bothers to learn the language and has no marketable skills should not be encouraged to stay. Why not just take in all the homeless heroin addicts from Thailand and give them a free place to stay and the dole as well? You have to draw the line somewhere. People who are in no way contributing to the local community and making no effort to become a functioning member of local society is not someone that should be encouraged by supporting their frivolous lifestyle.

And per your statement about the embassy, my mate Dave from Wales got stuck in America a few years ago. He lost his job, got booted from his flat, and was about to be homeless. He went to the brit embassy in DC and they flew him back, no charge, a few days later.

Teadrinker

CptSternn wrote: »

I'm all for supporting anyone who wants to come here and make a life for themselves, no matter who they are or where they are from. But does that mean everyone gets a free ride if they are too lazy to fend for themselves? We are not talking about a man forced out of his country because of some political turmoil, issues with the government, or other situation. We are talking about lads who made a CHOICE to fly here, then because couldn't find work or anyone that would hire them because they are unskilled, don't speak the language, and are drunks - and expect society to now coddle them.

There is plenty of work in Ennis now for anyone who wants to do odd jobs for a few bob. Any pub in town will let you sweep up for €20. Most shops have the same deal - on delivery day shops and pubs will let you load or unload stuff for a few bob as well. Then there is the building sites. If you want to get a job working security I know for a fact there is always a need for people to work on building sites as security. Thats one thing I did for some time. And all you need is a few bob to stay at the hostel. If you sweep up one night at a pub or work one night at a building site thats a days worth of food and a place to sleep.

Thats what I did, I I still talk to the nice people who helped me out and they have said they still are always looking for lads to help out.

At the end of the day, these people made a choice to come here, they were not forced. The fact they are unskilled drunks should not be everyone elses problem. I'm all for helping those in need, but if I flew to say America or Australia today with no money, no job, no friends or family,and I didn't speak the language would I expect everyone else to give me a hand out just because I didn't like the scenery here anymore?

Again, I think anyone coming here to make a life for themselves should be helped by the community. Anyone coming here that doesn't work, pisses away their money on drugs and alcohol, and never bothers to learn the language and has no marketable skills should not be encouraged to stay. Why not just take in all the homeless heroin addicts from Thailand and give them a free place to stay and the dole as well? You have to draw the line somewhere. People who are in no way contributing to the local community and making no effort to become a functioning member of local society is not someone that should be encouraged by supporting their frivolous lifestyle.

And per your statement about the embassy, my mate Dave from Wales got stuck in America a few years ago. He lost his job, got booted from his flat, and was about to be homeless. He went to the brit embassy in DC and they flew him back, no charge, a few days later.

Troll.

Dr Kamikazi

Teadrinker wrote: »

Troll.

I wouldn't go this far, CptSternn has a point and brings it across even if I don't agree with it.
If his friend was flown home by the embassy, I would call that very unusual, friends of mine have been in trouble abroad, the embassy will have a few words of advise, let you use the phone and help you obtain paperwork you need, i.e. passport and after that you're on your own.

CptSternn:
Not everyone can always look after themselves, some people fall down a hole, start drinking and can't get back on their feet without help. I've had people stay with me who had nowhere else to go. One took 20 pound from my wallet and disappeared and the other went back home.
Some people will make it, others won't.
Again, compassion should stretch to all human beings, except politicians.
In fact, maybe we should hire Polish politicians to run the country.
They'd work for half the money, twice as hard, longer hours, fewer holidays, get stuff done on time and on budget and everything would work first time without having to spend twice as long and three times as much getting some shambolic, badly planned mess to work.

eddiehobbs

Teadrinker wrote: »

Troll.

Why????

Is it because you dont agree with his point of view????

The guy has a decent work ethic, we need more like him

firesidechat

What part of 'These men once had work and their employer 's illegaly
did not pay their PSRI stamps' Do ye not understand.?

buck65

Jesus christ, some of the views on this thread are absolutely insane. It's like Mississippi in 1960.
PM to you firesidechat

CptSternn

firesidechat wrote: »

What part of 'These men once had work and their employer 's illegaly
did not pay their PSRI stamps' Do ye not understand.?

Did they not pay, or were they working off the books? Big difference there. If they did not pay, then there is a free legal aid office in Ennis along with Citizens Advice I would visit - they would be more than happy to look into that.

If they worked off the books, then they have no one to blame but themselves.

I mean, if everyone who worked off the books could claim the dole, how exactly would the country fund it? You would have every scumbag and knack across the country claiming they deserved the dole because the were working, off the books.

The question I ask is why would anyone who didn't speak the language move to a country with no money, no family, no contacts, and no means to support themselves?

Is it that they were homeless in their own country and heard about the generous nature of another country and decided to go there in hopes of getting a free ride? Where are these peoples families? How old are they? do they not have one friend back home that is willing to let them sleep on their couch? If not, then why? Did they already wear out their welcome in their homeland?

It just seems all a bit dodgy to me sure.

No one is saying we should let them freeze to death, but one does have to wonder about their motivation.

If I decided to move to France tomorrow I'd make sure I had a skill or trade, spoke French, and had a few bob to keep me going until I found work. Laying around drunk in the streets of Paris telling the people (in English) that they owed me a life is not something I think would go over to well, and why should it? If I don't know the language then I sure don't know the culture. Why am I there if I haven't even bothered to look into the local customs, culture, or society? What would be my possible motivation?

Per the statement about importing Polish politicians. I am no fan of any of the Irish politicians, but lets be honest - if the Polish politicians were any good their people would be living there and not here. Much like the Irish in America, the Polish here work hard to make a living for their families. If they were back home you can bet they wouldn't be working quite so hard, just like us here.

firesidechat

CptSternn wrote: »

Did they not pay, or were they working off the books? Big difference there. If they did not pay, then there is a free legal aid office in Ennis along with Citizens Advice I would visit - they would be more than happy to look into that./quote]

Do you not think that channel hasn't been explored.
I stated earlier that proof of their employment has been made.
As long as no PRSI payments were made in their name they have no benefits available to them.
You either haven't read the thread in complete , or is it that you do not want to believe that they were done a diservice? So you can stand on your high horse and mouth off for yourself.I hope you never find yourself in a similar situation. Do remember though. PRIDE COMES BEFORE A FALL.

Dr Kamikazi

CptSternn wrote: »

Per the statement about importing Polish politicians. I am no fan of any of the Irish politicians, but lets be honest - if the Polish politicians were any good their people would be living there and not here. Much like the Irish in America, the Polish here work hard to make a living for their families. If they were back home you can bet they wouldn't be working quite so hard, just like us here.

Well, the Polish are just about bringing their country into the 20th century, nevermind the 21st century. They had decades of foreign (Russian) rule and the country was decimated (sound familiar?) and now they are slowly building it up.
The bust did not help.
I guarantee that in 20 years time Poland will be lightyears ahead of Ireland in terms of welfare, hospitals, infrastructure, economy, etc...
While Ireland will still be asking "why do government ministers go on holiday when there's a crisis, why does the TeeShock earn more than the US president, why is the healthcare a shambles, why does only Dublin have public transport that goes beyond 3 buslines, why does that system not link up, why aren't the tickets integrated, why does everything here cost twice as much, why can't I get decent childcare, why do I have to earn 40k to make a living, why do we ignore those who don't, why does the government have money for Limos, jets, police escorts, flashy sweet shops yet needs to take that money from the disabled, poor and blind, why do we discourage people and especially the poor from education, why does the government wait till a crisis is over to do ANYTHING, why did it take till the 21st century to build anything even approaching a decent road system, why can't we build a decent rail system as well", I could fill several books with these questions, but for some strange reason no one in Ireland is ever responsible for anything, the game is keep the head down, don't get noticed, pass the buck, never stand out...
That's why Ireland will be the same gombeen run, brain dead rain soaked hellhole it is now in 20, 40 100 years time.
Poland: Watch this space, the Irish will be queuing to get into Poland one day.
One million and my right nut on the above.

schnecke1916

CptSternn wrote: »

If I decided to move to France tomorrow I'd make sure I had a skill or trade, spoke French, and had a few bob to keep me going until I found work. Laying around drunk in the streets of Paris telling the people (in English) that they owed me a life is not something I think would go over to well, and why should it? If I don't know the language then I sure don't know the culture. Why am I there if I haven't even bothered to look into the local customs, culture, or society? What would be my possible motivation?

I moved to France in 1991 with schoolboy French "Ou est le centre George Pompidou?" no job and no place to live. I stayed in dingy hotels and youth hostels till I hit lucky and got a job as a TEFL teacher in Versailles. I hit the jackpot when a colleague offered me a flat. I stayed for six years. I left when I decided to change career. It seemed like a stupid thing to do at the time but I had friends who lived in France who told me it was a nice place to be. Similarly the Polish in Poland have heard stories about Ireland. I think everyone is entitled to try their luck and language or culture should not be a barrier.
The disaster (for us and for them) is the young Poles who have lost their jobs and are now sitting on their asses living off the dole. The Irish dole is too good to resist so it turns the once hard working lads into lazy polish tv addicts. If I could have got dole in France I would have taken it, the mistake is the Irish government giving that much money (a fortune to a Pole) for doing nothing indefinitely. It gives those Poles who are still working a bad name. What is it, 25% of the live register is now East Europeans? Yes they are entitled to it but ultimately it does nobody any good.

topper75

firesidechat wrote: »

have compassion for your fellow man.

This is a dark story - but it begs the question:

Are we to have bottomless compassion to the point where our fellow adult can abandon all responsibility (heavy drinking, refusal to learn language, financial mismanagement)?

Because that too would be messed up.

Keano

The best thing for them is that they are giving flights home. They came here with the hope of making a better life but that didn't happen. Hopefully, at home they would have a proper roof over their heads.

Teadrinker

schnecke1916 wrote: »

I moved to France in 1991 with schoolboy French "Ou est le centre George Pompidou?" no job and no place to live. I stayed in dingy hotels and youth hostels till I hit lucky and got a job as a TEFL teacher in Versailles. I hit the jackpot when a colleague offered me a flat. I stayed for six years. I left when I decided to change career. It seemed like a stupid thing to do at the time but I had friends who lived in France who told me it was a nice place to be. Similarly the Polish in Poland have heard stories about Ireland. I think everyone is entitled to try their luck and language or culture should not be a barrier.
The disaster (for us and for them) is the young Poles who have lost their jobs and are now sitting on their asses living off the dole. The Irish dole is too good to resist so it turns the once hard working lads into lazy polish tv addicts. If I could have got dole in France I would have taken it, the mistake is the Irish government giving that much money (a fortune to a Pole) for doing nothing indefinitely. It gives those Poles who are still working a bad name. What is it, 25% of the live register is now East Europeans? Yes they are entitled to it but ultimately it does nobody any good. If you leave your front door open and a dog comes in and ****s on your carpet, who is to blame, you or the dog?[/quote]

What a disgusting and utterly racist analogy.

schnecke1916

Teadrinker wrote: »

If you leave your front door open and a dog comes in and ****s on your carpet, who is to blame, you or the dog?[/quote]

What a disgusting and utterly racist analogy.

Yes it is, please remove it! :eek:

firesidechat

OK. The saga continues.
I just received a call from a very upset JOSIE.
It seems the SVP ran shelter where the lads are staying , Will be doing
an assesment on their situation next week.
The future is not looking very bright for them.
The fact that they cannot claim benefits goes against the policy of SVP
and they are under no obligation to house them. So here we go again.
I am aware some people here are against giving any assistance to these individuals,That is your opinion and i respect that, But please refrain from negative posting until those that do care can solve this situation.
Has anyone got any suggestions or know of any way we can help these lads. Turfing them out on the street again is not the solution as no one will benefit from this action.
Any advice gladly accepted......Thanks.

Keano

firesidechat wrote: »

OK. The saga continues.
I just received a call from a very upset JOSIE.
It seems the SVP ran shelter where the lads are staying , Will be doing
an assesment on their situation next week.
The future is not looking very bright for them.
The fact that they cannot claim benefits goes against the policy of SVP
and they are under no obligation to house them. So here we go again.
I am aware some people here are against giving any assistance to these individuals,That is your opinion and i respect that, But please refrain from negative posting until those that do care can solve this situation.
Has anyone got any suggestions or know of any way we can help these lads. Turfing them out on the street again is not the solution as no one will benefit from this action.
Any advice gladly accepted......Thanks.

This is helpful advice.

If you care about them, pay for flights home for them.

Seriously, what more can be done? The best the state can do is give is them the dole.

Your generosity is admirable and to be respected but you are fighting a losing battle.

palaver

Did anyone ever asked them what THEY want?

They are grown men after all, not abandoned puppies, and should have an idea what they expect from the future - and have a say. And to hear their opinion might be helpful for the helpers.

I.e.: Do they want to go home? Would they prefer to stay in Ireland? What kind of skills do they have? What are they prepared to do? And so on.

As much as I think that help for the stranded is necessary, but I do believe in help to help themselves. Otherwise it gets a bit patronising and it doesn't help them in the long run.

In short, that's my advise: Ask them what they want, act accordingly, if feasible. Help them to get back on their own feet and that way give them back some self-respect.

dh0661

Keano A Legend wrote: »

This is helpful advice.
If you care about them, pay for flights home for them.
Seriously, what more can be done? The best the state can do is give is them the dole.
Your generosity is admirable and to be respected but you are fighting a losing battle.

Contact the respective embassy and ask them to sort it.

fenianjohn

CptSternn wrote: »

They could go to their embassy, or ring it even, and get a free flight home.

The fact they want to stay when there is no work, they don't speak the language, and have a drinking problem shouldn't be our problem.

Should Ireland put up all alco's from across the globe who come here and don't speak the language or work because they are drunk all the time?

It would be one thing if they had a family and were just out of work, but they 'were working' and what? Spent all their money on drink and now want everyone else to support them?

I'm all for supporting anyone who needs help, if they are willing to help themselves. Coming to a country where you don't speak the language, not working, getting sloshed and pissing away every opportunity given to you does not entitle you to a free ride.

I moved to Clare six years ago. I busted my arse doing whatever work I could find just to pay for a room in the hostel, for nine months. I lived on about €15 a week and never claimed social welfare even though I could have. Today I work, have a house (I rent) and a family I support. No one gave me anything, and I never asked for it. I also sure as **** did not piss away the small amount of money I did have on drugs and/or alcohol. If I had, then I would have gotten myself back on the plane and fecked off back to where I came from.

What a smug muppet. Firstly you go to england or the states and see all the drunk irish on the streets over there. Plus i have worked with those two lads and many others in ennis and clare and there are alot more irish lads in the same boat as them. The fact they drink is because when you down and out and on the streets in winter drink blocks out alot of the pains you will be suffering both mentally and physically. Yu know how cold a house can be in winter when the heating goes think how cold it is in a shop door way with a wet blanket under you. And i know for a fact these guys have spent time in prison on more then two occasions because the stole food not drink from dunnes and other shops just to survive. Josie o Brien has worked her ass off to get them what she can they have not two cents to rub together and her help organisation has helped young irish people who have been effected by drink and drugs. So CAPTAIN (narcissus) i hope your children dont end up in another country far from home and find they have fallen on hard times and end up like those poor lads. just remember no one wants to live like that. If you dont like our country and the fact we treat everybody as equal well some of do anyway then maybe you should go home. oh and thanks for not claiming social welfare a smug git like you dont deserve it

fenianjohn

these two guys fall between the cracks in the system. they as european citizens should be looked after by any european state but here in ireland the so called charities like st vincent de paul dont give a damn.

CptSternn

fenianjohn wrote: »

And i know for a fact these guys have spent time in prison on more then two occasions because the stole food not drink from dunnes and other shops just to survive.

So your defending them stealing from shops because they drank away their money? Do you support travelers who rob shops if they too drink away their money? Why should anyone make an exception for these clowns?

i hope your children dont end up in another country far from home and find they have fallen on hard times and end up like those poor lads.

Again, they are not 'far from home'. They can go home any time they like, they choose not to, probably because they were just as drunk and irresponsible in their own country and have burned their bridges there as well. My kids could always come home if they needed - I would make sure of that. They fact these men have no relatives, friends, or family willing to help them should be a clear sign of the fact they have done this sort of thing previously.

If you dont like our country and the fact we treat everybody as equal well some of do anyway then maybe you should go home. oh and thanks for not claiming social welfare a smug git like you don't deserve it

Git? Muppet? Sounds like your a real hard man. Feel free to private message me, I'll be happy to meet you up town any day and you can say that to my face, unless your mother raised you to be a coward.

And my name is Sternn, and I am a Captain.

fenianjohn

CptSternn wrote: »

So your defending them stealing from shops because they drank away their money? Do you support travelers who rob shops if they too drink away their money? Why should anyone make an exception for these clowns?



Again, they are not 'far from home'. They can go home any time they like, they choose not to, probably because they were just as drunk and irresponsible in their own country and have burned their bridges there as well. My kids could always come home if they needed - I would make sure of that. They fact these men have no relatives, friends, or family willing to help them should be a clear sign of the fact they have done this sort of thing previously.



Git? Muppet? Sounds like your a real hard man. Feel free to private message me, I'll be happy to meet you up town any day and you can say that to my face, unless your mother raised you to be a coward.

And my name is Sternn, and I am a Captain.

ha violence the last refuge of a bully boy dimwit. and captain of what exactly(the avengers maybe say hello to iron man for me) its sad when a man( i take it your an adult) takes the name of a comic book hero. Out of the country at the moment maybe i might pm you when i get back ha ha ha that is if thats okay with you CAPTAIN STERNN

fenianjohn

to all the people who give out about non nationals living off the state like captain sternn i say this im living in australia at the moment and thhere is two homeless irish guys sleeping in sheds in the local park in sydney. one is 25 the othr is 19 both do the same as the two lads in ennis and have been shunned by the irish community over here. so we are the same as any other country dont try and say we are not. we never know other peoples real problems but we can do our best to help them in anyway we can and by help i dont mean giving them money your money is not helping the problems they have.

maiden

So FenianJohn i take it you will be taking in those two lads to feed and clothe them for a while!

fenianjohn

maiden wrote: »

So FenianJohn i take it you will be taking in those two lads to feed and clothe them for a while!

What i do is give them some warm blankets the weather is good in oz but gets cold at night when they are dirty and wet the blankets i mean i wash them for the guys when i can i buy them some take away chips burger that type of thing. i work nights and days sometimes so i cant have them over for dinner plus i live in a small room with three other guys. so maiden i do my best its not much but it helps them a small bit if everyone was the same to someone less well off then thhe world would be a better place. sternn and a few others got me angry with their chat but hey everyone to their own i suppose i dont expect everyonme to be like me or others who take just a few mins out of their day to give a helping hand to someone who needs it.

Carry

What happened to the two lads? Any follow-ups?