Welfare - Nice ´n Toasty?

Clown Shoes

I got the following text this morning from a mate who was made redundant more than a year ago. It reads as follows:

"Rolld outta bed around midday, got my scratch, back home now studying the form, nice ´n toasty. Enjoy plodding home from work in the snow".

I´m beginning to think that I´m wasting my time working for a living. Some people are living quite comfortably on the dole while I´ve had another pay cut recently. Thoughts?

AARRRGH

The same thing crosses my mind every time I look at my finances and realise I could live very comfortably on €200 a week + free rent.

But I think my self-worth would drop, and I could become depressed.

Also, I am trying to save a lot of money at the moment (for the usual reasons) and that wouldn't be doable on the dole.

But yeah, the dole is too high: being unemployed should not be appealing.

Clown Shoes

If benefits exceed the normal thresholds that a worker pays tax at I think that benefit recipients should pay tax like the rest of us.

old boy

Clown Shoes wrote: »

If benefits exceed the normal thresholds that a worker pays tax at I think that benefit recipients should pay tax like the rest of us.

the first realistic quote that i have come across on a way to deal with this issue,
i would add the following, that all welfare income be taxable, ie every one theat reach the normal threshold are taxed, i would prefer if my pension was taxed rather than cut,
each person in this country pay tax, people that have never or will never work pay tax, the traveling community pay tax, each stall holder at each market pay tax on their pitch/stall, how many markets car boot sales are on each sunday, how many traders are out each sunday, a goverment or council tax should prevail,
also the goverment missed a golden opportunity in the budget, a minor tax on phone texts, the income would have to be colossal.

Anita Blow

old boy wrote: »

the first realistic quote that i have come across on a way to deal with this issue,
i would add the following, that all welfare income be taxable, ie every one theat reach the normal threshold are taxed, i would prefer if my pension was taxed rather than cut,
each person in this country pay tax, people that have never or will never work pay tax, the traveling community pay tax, each stall holder at each market pay tax on their pitch/stall, how many markets car boot sales are on each sunday, how many traders are out each sunday, a goverment or council tax should prevail,
also the goverment missed a golden opportunity in the budget, a minor tax on phone texts, the income would have to be colossal.

How do you propose the Government taxes texts considering that the majority of Prepay customers are on Free Text plans?

gcgirl

this is just like every other dole is too much title thread there must be about 50 of them since the budget, it's a fact that this government have done a big fat zero to create job growth ! I was myself talking to a guy when i was getting something done to my car and he said they were cutting staff 2/3 were gonna get their p45 next week and they are not happy at the prospect of the dole ! When one sector fails it has a knock on effect on every level and there are quite a lot of people who despise being out of work !

johnnyskeleton

Clown Shoes wrote: »

I got the following text this morning from a mate who was made redundant more than a year ago. It reads as follows:

"Rolld outta bed around midday, got my scratch, back home now studying the form, nice ´n toasty. Enjoy plodding home from work in the snow".

I´m beginning to think that I´m wasting my time working for a living. Some people are living quite comfortably on the dole while I´ve had another pay cut recently. Thoughts?

[armchair psychologist's cap]It sounds like a classic case of job-envy. Your friend begrudges you with your job and your prospects and this manifests itself in two ways:

1) glorification of life on the dole; and
2) derision of your journey home from work.

The fact that your friend felt the need to communicate this to you is illustrative of his need to reassert his position as his lack of a job emasculates him and to make you envy him in the way that he envys you.

Many people who lose their jobs adopt this attitude, it's usually all bluster. I'm sure if you got right down to it what your friend wants more than anything else is to have your job.

[/armchair psychologist's cap]

Then again, maybe I'm not the best person to take psychological advice from - I quite enjoy plodding home in the snow, it makes a pleasant change from the usual plod.

Sandvich

People generally don't really enjoy being on the Dole, you have a lot more free time but less money to fill it with. Also the rent is not "free", you still have to pay 24 euros minimum contribution, and the Dole did take a cut recently.

But yeah, the dole is too high: being unemployed should not be appealing.

It's not about whether it's appealing or not it's what practical. Many people do not find it easy to live on €200 a week, it depends on the person and their circumstances. Our unemployment was relatively low before the recession so obviously it wasn't generating as much of an issue as you might have thought. The high level of dole helps compensate for the widely varying cost of living in different areas and circumstances. Ideally more means tested would be a good idea but that in of itself can be expensive and time consuming.

Scofflaw

Sandvich wrote: »

People generally don't really enjoy being on the Dole, you have a lot more free time but less money to fill it with. Also the rent is not "free", you still have to pay 24 euros minimum contribution, and the Dole did take a cut recently.

It's not about whether it's appealing or not it's what practical. Many people do not find it easy to live on €200 a week, it depends on the person and their circumstances. Our unemployment was relatively low before the recession so obviously it wasn't generating as much of an issue as you might have thought

A very good point! When we had virtually no unemployment, nobody was claiming that the dole was tempting people away from work, because it obviously wasn't. Now, however, the cry goes up that the dole must be too high - apparently because there are so many people on it.

Presumably they were all very suddenly tempted out of work.

amused,
Scofflaw

AlekSmart

you still have to pay 24 euros minimum contribution,

Sandvich makes a very pertinent point here.

Its equally interesting that securing that €24 can often be the most difficult process,as the disposbale element of whatever allowance is being drawn down seems to be prioritized for.....
a) Cigarettes or Roll-Ups
b)Mobile Phone Credit (although one individual of my knowledge has transferred her Telephone Allowance to Mobile Credits)
c) Off Licence spend
d) Betting spend,

The latter is now becoming what I would term a major problem as can be deduced by the number of NEW betting shops opening throughout the country.

It`s all about priorities,with my observation being that many in reciept of DFSA Reant Allowances place far less importance on the principle of paying whatever rent is due than the equivalent person in employment who is paying a mortgage or private rent themselves.

It is not unusual for the latter grouping to make serious and personally painful cuts to their lifestyles in order to keep servicing their resedential needs.

Sleepy

Scofflaw wrote: »

A very good point! When we had virtually no unemployment, nobody was claiming that the dole was tempting people away from work, because it obviously wasn't. Now, however, the cry goes up that the dole must be too high - apparently because there are so many people on it.

Presumably they were all very suddenly tempted out of work.

amused,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw, you're right to an extent but so is Sandvich.

During the good times people's salaries were significantly higher than the dole. With so many people getting reduced to 4 day work weeks, 20% salary cuts, increased income taxes, no overtime etc. their take-home incomes have moved closer to the level of the dole. For some, it's had the effect where there's such a small difference between the two that they'll judge themselves to be better off not having to take the dole as there's either no difference between their income level (when work related costs such as transport / lunches etc are factored in ) or because getting to mind their own children for the week is worth more to them than the small amount of extra cash they'd have if they'd stayed in the workforce.

I'd struggle badly to cope on the dole myself - I just about got through 3 months of it with a redundancy payment. It'd certainly mean having to move to a smaller house in a cheaper rental area, quitting all luxuries (cigarettes, alcohol, pre-prepared food etc) and having a chat with the bank about re-structuring payments on some debts etc. but to be honest, I don't think I'm entitled not to have to make sacrifices if I'm living off the grace of the taxpayer.

ZYX

Scofflaw wrote: »

A very good point! When we had virtually no unemployment, nobody was claiming that the dole was tempting people away from work, ,
Scofflaw

Yes they were. Business groups were constantly saying high dole and minimum wage was a barrier to employment and business. I am not saying they were right but they certainly made the point frequently.

AARRRGH

Scofflaw wrote: »

A very good point! When we had virtually no unemployment, nobody was claiming that the dole was tempting people away from work, because it obviously wasn't. Now, however, the cry goes up that the dole must be too high - apparently because there are so many people on it.

Presumably they were all very suddenly tempted out of work.

amused,
Scofflaw

You must have missed those threads so.

The argument that our dole is too high has been around for the past few years.

Liam79

Clown Shoes wrote: »

I got the following text this morning from a mate who was made redundant more than a year ago. It reads as follows:

"Rolld outta bed around midday, got my scratch, back home now studying the form, nice ´n toasty. Enjoy plodding home from work in the snow".

I´m beginning to think that I´m wasting my time working for a living. Some people are living quite comfortably on the dole while I´ve had another pay cut recently. Thoughts?

I think your making that up and I dont believe you.

Not saying there arent people on the dole like that, I just dont believe you that you got a text "from a mate" saying that.

J'accuse........

whatnext

Liam79 wrote: »

I think your making that up and I dont believe you.

Not saying there arent people on the dole like that, I just dont believe you that you got a text "from a mate" saying that.

J'accuse........

I tend to get quite a few of these type texts. They're not malicious, just looking on the bright side of things I guess. Also get mobile phone pics of them in the pub, or playin footy in the park.

It doesn't get to me as I know these guys are all looking for work and would swap places with me in a heart beat.

Clown Shoes

Liam79 wrote: »

I think your making that up and I dont believe you.

Not saying there arent people on the dole like that, I just dont believe you that you got a text "from a mate" saying that.

J'accuse........

You really shouldn´t make assumptions about people you know nothing about. I worked with the man for 10 years. We spent those ten years trying to fcuk each other up in work while trying to have a laugh doing it, if that makes any sense.

What can I say? He´s still persecuting me!

TheDublinMan

dole isn't all that great
its €194 per week income
Outgoings
€40 food
€40 esb
€8 upc
€50 rent
€20 insurance (have a car worth €500)

Leaves €39 for daily expenses like milk, bread etc.
DOLE ISN'T ALL THAT ! (unless you live at home with mammy and have no bills to pay, wouldn't disagree with those types being cut)

smurgen

the dole is too high and it's pissing me off. my friend graduated from his masters in english in september and he went on the dole straight away.the little fecker is loving it.im doing a postgraduate diploma and i've just lost a part time job i've had since the age of 16.he never had a job in his life and got money into his hand from his parents to go out 3-4 times a week.my parents cant afford to give me money-nothing so i have 0 income now.also my fees wipe out my grant this year cause they're higher than the tuition fee the council pay for. i seriously feel as if im being persecuted for being in college.after years of giving this fella a lend of money to go out when i had a job and his parents wouldn't give him some i'm now left at home why he's still living it up.he hasn't gone looking for a job at all and i've been looking sine last week and there seems to be nothing available.this country sems to persecute those who want to better themselves and work.im so out of here when i'm qualified

MikeC101

TheDublinMan wrote: »

dole isn't all that great
its €194 per week income
Outgoings
€40 food
€40 esb
€8 upc
€50 rent
€20 insurance (have a car worth €500)

Leaves €39 for daily expenses like milk, bread etc.
DOLE ISN'T ALL THAT ! (unless you live at home with mammy and have no bills to pay, wouldn't disagree with those types being cut)

€40 esb a week seems high?

Plus - a large chunk of the people you're slating as "live at home with mammy" types would also be getting rent allowance if they weren't. So by cutting dole solely for them, you're putting a huge incentive on them to move out and start claiming rent allowance.

Byron85

MikeC101 wrote: »

€40 esb a week seems high?

Plus - a large chunk of the people you're slating as "live at home with mammy" types would also be getting rent allowance if they weren't. So by cutting dole solely for them, you're putting a huge incentive on them to move out and start claiming rent allowance.

A lot of people who post about all of the benefits that people get while on the dole etc don't realise that a lot of landlords won't accept rent allowance. In fact, i've never had a landlord that did and i'm now in my 6th rented accommodation.

johnnyskeleton

Scofflaw wrote: »

A very good point! When we had virtually no unemployment, nobody was claiming that the dole was tempting people away from work, because it obviously wasn't. Now, however, the cry goes up that the dole must be too high - apparently because there are so many people on it.

Presumably they were all very suddenly tempted out of work.

amused,
Scofflaw

Quite a few people were as I recall, particularly in relation to lone parent etc. There have always been calls for it to be reduced to staggered e.g. the longer youre on it the lower it gets.

One of the main things that people pointed to was the way in which there were a lot of Irish people who simply weren't prepared to work minimum wage jobs e.g. shop clerk because the dole was too good and as a result a lot of those jobs were done by immigrants.

johnnyskeleton

smurgen wrote: »

the dole is too high and it's pissing me off. my friend graduated from his masters in english in september and he went on the dole straight away.the little fecker is loving it.im doing a postgraduate diploma and i've just lost a part time job i've had since the age of 16.he never had a job in his life and got money into his hand from his parents to go out 3-4 times a week.my parents cant afford to give me money-nothing so i have 0 income now.also my fees wipe out my grant this year cause they're higher than the tuition fee the council pay for. i seriously feel as if im being persecuted for being in college.after years of giving this fella a lend of money to go out when i had a job and his parents wouldn't give him some i'm now left at home why he's still living it up.he hasn't gone looking for a job at all and i've been looking sine last week and there seems to be nothing available.this country sems to persecute those who want to better themselves and work.im so out of here when i'm qualified

The government is hardly persecuting you because they aren't giving you free money. Your complaint should be at best that you friend doesn't deserve the dole more than you, but it is not a reason for the government to provide money to you.

murphaph

TheDublinMan wrote: »

dole isn't all that great
its €194 per week income
Outgoings
€40 food
€40 €15 esb
€8 €0 upc
€50 €24 rent (assuming the person qualifies for rent supplement, which they would in most cases)
€20 insurance (have a car worth €500)

Leaves €39 €59 for daily expenses like milk, bread etc.
DOLE ISN'T ALL THAT ! (unless you live at home with mammy and have no bills to pay, wouldn't disagree with those types being cut)

You grossly overestimate the cost of some things and what the hell would someone on the dole be doing with expensive cable TV??? :rolleyes:

It's meant to provide a basic, subsistence living while you search for a new job, not replace your lost salary.

That leaves a good €9 a day to buy bread and milk. Unless you intended the "etc." to stand for cigarrettes, booze etc. which people on the dole simply shouldn't be able to afford. It should not be so high to allow that tbh.

MikeC101

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

A lot of people who post about all of the benefits that people get while on the dole etc don't realise that a lot of landlords won't accept rent allowance. In fact, i've never had a landlord that did and i'm now in my 6th rented accommodation.

True enough, I'd imagine that might be changing somewhat in the current climate. As it is though, I don't qualify for rent allowance but I manage to pay it out of the dole, along with all my bills pretty easily.

reunion

TheDublinMan wrote: »

dole isn't all that great
its €194 per week income
Outgoings
€40 food
€40 esb
€8 upc
€50 rent
€20 insurance (have a car worth €500)

Leaves €39 for daily expenses like milk, bread etc.
DOLE ISN'T ALL THAT ! (unless you live at home with mammy and have no bills to pay, wouldn't disagree with those types being cut)

ok i got to ask, why do you have food down there and then have €39 for milk and bread etc...

plus why are you taking it as a week by week scenario? like after 1 week food isn't just thrown out.... just did a quick shop on superquinns online shopping and my basket came to 60 but that would do me for 2 to 3 weeks, also i bought very little name brand items and 6 cans of druids and a bottle of wine. so in a month you would be looking to spend around 100 maybe even 140 including more drink and tobaco (as rolling is cheaper then buying them in packs). either way 140 a month works out at €35 a week.

€40 esb, I'll go with it as i dont know enough about the average usage of electricity of people in ireland but im sure that figure is way too high (especially since being on the dole means sacrifics and smart planning, i.e turning off lights during the day, putting computers off when not in use.. etc)

€8 upc, thats €32 a month, according to the upc site you get the 15mb service, which you don't need as the 5mb service is just as good and is only €22 a month so thats €5.50 a week

€50 rent, isn't there a rent allowance? but lets stick with the €50 anyway

€20 insurance - what about the bus or walking? or investing in a bike? saving you €20 a week (and petrol because that wasn't factored in), but lets say €20 for busses

so we have 35+40+5.50+50+20 = €150.50

leaving €43.50 a week for other expenditures

but keep in mind that internet and electricity could be covered in the cost of rent in some places (because 50+5.50+40 = 95.50 that puts rent and others costs for rent at almost 400 a month and if your sharing acoomadation the cost for internet/electricity(maybe food if you all chip in) goes down.)

captainscarlet

I think people fail to realise how difficult it is to live on 200 euro a week when a persons previous salary was closer to 500 or 600.
My dad was on it for a few weeks and our electricity bills alone were about 160 euro.

The problem many people have is not with honest people unemployed by the recession, but career dole trolls who claim with no intention of ever gaining employment. That situation has always been here, but many were willing to overlook it.

But honestly, dole should be gradually reduced over time back to a bare minimum. Or other work for dole schemes could be introduced.

Theres many council houses that meed painting and wallpapering and the large body of unemployed labour would be perfect for that!

rasper

If its such a great life why don't ya join in , give up your job which they'll be plenty of unemployed applicants for.
Unemployed life is depressing , demeaning and can be described as poverty, on saying that it will have to come down alongside with wages its mad to think any different.

bog master

reunion wrote: »

ok i got to ask, why do you have food down there and then have €39 for milk and bread etc...

plus why are you taking it as a week by week scenario? like after 1 week food isn't just thrown out.... just did a quick shop on superquinns online shopping and my basket came to 60 but that would do me for 2 to 3 weeks, also i bought very little name brand items and 6 cans of druids and a bottle of wine. so in a month you would be looking to spend around 100 maybe even 140 including more drink and tobaco (as rolling is cheaper then buying them in packs). either way 140 a month works out at €35 a week.

First of all, not on the dole but being self employed and having eaten into my nest egg the last two years, I am tempted.

But are you are telling me you spent €60.00 in Superquinn including 6 cans and a bottle of wine, and this food shop is going to last you 2-3 weeks? Now my food shop includes loo paper, shampoo, soap, cleaning supplies, firelighters etc, do you factor this in? 3 weeks=21 days by £60.00= €2.85 per day, pray tell how you feed and clean yourself and your house on this amount!

Berthram

There are people that dont like work. OK, some of these people get 200 euro welfare per week.

However, there are also people in jobs getting many many times what the welfare guy gets and they also dont like working.

Not only that, but many of these well paid shirkers have got bonuses and benchmarking without any proper monotoring or appraisal schemes to see if they have in fact increased their productivity.(or decreased their shirking).

So my point is that shirking is also a problem for people who are paid to work but dont work as well as for those who dont look for work in the first place. The latter are probably more honest.

97i9y3941

i woundnt blame people for saying you be better off the dole nearly,looking at the allowances you entilted to and the med card you feel like a right ejit working and i think thats where it has lead to the "scroungers" making a career out of it,instance if someone age 24 and under living at home with parents and their parents are honest taxpayers they mighnt be entitled to a college grant so that person would be better off to move out get rent allowance then get the back to education allowance *which has seen some people working giving up their job because they woundnt be enitled to college grant*..

Mcloke

TheDublinMan wrote: »

dole isn't all that great
its €194 per week income
Outgoings
€40 food
€40 esb
€8 upc
€50 rent
€20 insurance (have a car worth €500)

Leaves €39 for daily expenses like milk, bread etc.
DOLE ISN'T ALL THAT ! (unless you live at home with mammy and have no bills to pay, wouldn't disagree with those types being cut)

€40 a week on ESB....turn some lights off! The MOST our ESB has ever reached which was for one month in winter and with a person at home all day was approx €120 bi-monthly which is €15 a week. As your rent is €50 a week I would assume you are not living alone which means the ESB/UPC bills are not solely yours and are you not receiving rent allowance which of course is an addition to your weekly money.
You can live easily including bread and milk on €40 a week with proper meal planning and an understanding that you are living on a budget. Honestly how much bread and milk do you use daily?!? A loaf lasts one person a few days at least as does milk.