Togo's team bus hit by machine gun fire

Reganio 2

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Terrible incident. Phil Brown of Hull City has called for Premier League players to be released by their countries. This also begs the question as to why FIFA still allows this tournament to be held out of synch with the rest of the football calendar. FIFA should act and force it to be held in the off season like the European Championships.

Ah yeah its grand, let the other players die as long as they don't play in the Premiership, who needs players in the French League's anyway.

anonymous_joe

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Africa isn't 50 degrees all over in the summer time. It is a pretty big place.

I think the problem is if it was held when the European season ends then it would clash with the World Cup seeing as it is every 2 years rather than 4 like the European equivilent.

True. But you'd only be able to have it in South Africa, Namibia, Botswana or Zimbabwe...

Otherwise it's subtropical, tropical, or desert. :pac:

Ferris_Bueller

Sorry but maybe this has gone straight over my head, but why are people arguing about what time of the year it should be played?

vincenzo1975

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=723184&sec=global&cc=5739

Looks like the Togo players have chosen to play rather then leave. They want to honour the dead and play it out for them.

this is one hell of a choice, and shows huge bravery and commitment to their country.

It also sends a statement to the bastards that did it, I just hope the attacks do not escalate further.

Fifa and the Africal federation have handled this very poorly in my opinion.

C'mon Togo.

ArmaniJeanss

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Sorry but maybe this has gone straight over my head, but why are people arguing about what time of the year it should be played?

Because it's the nature of discussions on internet fora that they move on from their initial core point to encompass other relevant sub-debates.

Fairly simple really.

GLaDOS

vincenzo1975 wrote: »

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=723184&sec=global&cc=5739

Looks like the Togo players have chosen to play rather then leave. They want to honour the dead and play it out for them.

this is one hell of a choice, and shows huge bravery and commitment to their country.

It also sends a statement to the bastards that did it, I just hope the attacks do not escalate further.

Fifa and the Africal federation have handled this very poorly in my opinion.

C'mon Togo.

Very brave indeed, let's hope they don't regret it. I know who I'm supporting now anyway!

Reganio 2

griffdaddy wrote: »

maybe ireland can join in now seeing as we're not going to the world cup?

Well done you got your "Thanks" you so dearly wanted now can you leave the discussion to people with respect. Sad man.

civis_liberalis

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well done you got your "Thanks" you so dearly wanted now can you leave the discussion to people with respect. Sad man.

I saw some real idiots on another football forum who posted some really disrespectful "jokes" about the situation, thinking that copy and pasting stuff they find on sickipedia or wherever onto every other forum they use is acceptable behaviour.

griffdaddy

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well done you got your "Thanks" you so dearly wanted now can you leave the discussion to people with respect. Sad man.

Hold on a minute, what? where did i disrespect anybody (apart from the FAI)? I made a joke that didn't have anything to do with the killings. Of course I don't think footballers being shot at is funny and I know this isn't after hours. Jesus if you were anymore PC you'd be a Dell.

KittyeeTrix

Glad to see Adebayor staying with the team and going ahead to honour the dead. Hope they do well and will be definitely watching with an ever keener interest their progress within the tournament.

Tough week on the players and you have to admire their resilience, well, I do:)

Headshot

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

Glad to see Adebayor staying with the team and going ahead to honour the dead. Hope they do well and will be definitely watching with an ever keener interest their progress within the tournament.

Tough week on the players and you have to admire their resilience, well, I do:)

not anymore

KittyeeTrix

Headshot wrote: »

not anymore

Just caught it on SSN there. Seems the govt. spoke out against them staying!!

leninbenjamin

Indeed, see the bbc on the issue.

Togo captain Emmanuel Adebayor has told French radio his team will return home from the Africa Cup of Nations following advice from their government.

Although the team initially wanted to leave the tournament after a gun attack on the team killed three people, they then said they would stay on in Angola.

But Togo Prime Minister Gilbert Houngbo insisted the team leave the country for security reasons.

Hmmm, judging by the quick turnaround it may simply be a case of wanting to protect the players.

If Ade and that decided not to play themselves they may have risked bans and fines (which would be crippling for some of the lesser known players in the squad). So for them to come out and make themselves available it absolves the players and the Togo FA from responsibility.

At the same time though, should the Togo Government declare the region unsafe and issue a ban on travel CAF pretty much cannot do anything, there are some political interventions that football authorities are legally obliged to respect.

LuckyLloyd

This is a correct decision on the part of Togo. I am hoping that other nations now follow suit, and the tournament is canceled. Madness to play it in the aftermath of these deaths. Some things are far more important than football lads.

KittyeeTrix

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Indeed, see the bbc on the issue.



Hmmm, judging by the quick turnaround it may simply be a case of wanting to protect the players.

If Ade and that decided not to play themselves they may have risked bans and fines (which would be crippling for some of the lesser known players in the squad). So for them to come out and make themselves available it absolves the players and the Togo FA from responsibility.

At the same time though, should the Togo Government declare the region unsafe and issue a ban on travel CAF pretty much cannot do anything, there are some political interventions that football authorities are legally obliged to respect.

What is CAF???

leninbenjamin

fluffyorganic1 wrote: »

What is CAF???

see here for a detailed explanation.

ragg

This story is seriously shocking for many reasons -

1. Why were they travelling by bus in a volatile region?
2. Why is this stupid competition allowed to go ahead in a World cup year, in the middle of a season
3. What have togo ever done on anyone?
4. Where was the security?

KittyeeTrix

Thanks for the link

Some of us around here are not experts on football or football teams, we are just ordinary fans who follow their team throughout the season.
This week on boards there seems to be a lot of use of acronyms which is a pain in the a** if you don't know what they mean

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The tournament needs to be canceled. Yes, I know that giving into terrorists is bad, but **** that there are lives at risk (and a life lost already). The tournament should not have been held there in the first place. It clearly is not safe with matches soon to kick off. Time for sense to prevail.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Out of interest, do you think the Munich Olympics should have been cancelled after the Black September incident? Should they not have been held in Gemany in the first place?
Ditto the Atlanta Olympics?

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is a correct decision on the part of Togo. I am hoping that other nations now follow suit, and the tournament is canceled. Madness to play it in the aftermath of these deaths. Some things are far more important than football lads.

Can I bump my question to you again as you probably missed it - be interested in your answer.

Do you think the Munich Olympics should have been cancelled after the Black September incident? Should they not have been held in Germany in the first place?
Ditto the Atlanta Olympics?

LuckyLloyd

ragg wrote: »

This story is seriously shocking for many reasons -

1. Why were they travelling by bus in a volatile region? Would have had to complete some of their journey by coach, and it was quickest to just drive directly. That said, they probably should have taken the long way to be safe.
2. Why is this stupid competition allowed to go ahead in a World cup year, in the middle of a season Footballing Politics mostly.
3. What have togo ever done on anyone? Nothing on either party embroiled in conflict in Angola AFAIK
4. Where was the security? An oversight linked to the answer to question 1 tbh.

.

PHB

Stopping the tournament is just giving in. Gives license to any group of lunatics to try and do it next year. You gotta push ahead, no matter how hard it may be. I can see why Togo want to leave, but I think the players are right, the best way to honour the dead is to play on in their memory, not go home. The government are just terrified about another attack and don't want the responsibility of providing safety.

LuckyLloyd

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Can I bump my question to you again as you probably missed it - be interested in your answer.

Do you think the Munich Olympics should have been cancelled after the Black September incident? Should they not have been held in Germany in the first place?
Ditto the Atlanta Olympics?

Germany and the US were not official warzones when both of those events took place. You are fully aware of that, and should know that it is a weak way to argue your point.

As for the second part, we both know that either situation would have been much more able to drastically up their levels of security after both events due to much greater advantages in terms of International cooperation; technological and human technique and personnel; the fact that neither event was taking part in a war zone.

If you ask me what the "right thing to do was" well, particularly in the case of Munich, I am of the opinion that continuing the games was an affront to those who had died - and their relatives.

ragg

PHB wrote: »

Stopping the tournament is just giving in. Gives license to any group of lunatics to try and do it next year. You gotta push ahead, no matter how hard it may be.

I agree, but this tournament is organised in such a haphazard way that it is nothing more then an inconvenience to eveyone but the africans.
Also, in these days where footballing stars are worth so much money, it might be a case that the insurance companies put a stop to it - rather then the terrorists

MrKingsley

This was a piece from one of the BBC reports-

Caf spokesman Souleymane Habuba offered sympathy for the Togo team but questioned why they had travelled by road rather than flying to Angola.

"CAF's regulations are clear: teams are required to fly rather than travel by bus," he said.

As has been suggested by other posters it would have been impossible to solely fly to their destination.

But more importantly, in my opinion, the CAF have just attempted to divert attention away from the real issue at hand. That is the safety concerns surrounding African football at the moment. And that is not just the shootings, but also the recent stadium collapses in Morocco and the Ivory Coast and other events such as a rueters reporter essentially being kidnapped in South Africa last year.

To me that statement shows a complete lack of respect to the Togolese football team and all of its affiliated members. CAF should be doing nothing other than condemning these sort of attacks rather than blaming the victims in a roundabout sort of way.

Obviously it is not their responsibility to ensure peace in the whole of Africa but i think that any statement released should have been more sensitive to the issue at hand.

leninbenjamin

Not the first time a high level body of the game puts it's own interests above that of its members whom it's supposed to represent, and certainly not the last.

I'm not sure on the travel issue myself, but it had been suggested in a few places that Togo would have had to spend more time on the road had they flown?

I'd love to see a proper investigation launched into the functioning of CAF. In recent years they've displayed a level of self protectionism and self promotion that Blatter and Warner would be proud of. This incident simply highlights some of the absurdities in their decision making process. Would it be wrong to suggest brown envelopes may have a part to play?

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Germany and the US were not official warzones when both of those events took place. You are fully aware of that, and should know that it is a weak way to argue your point.

I actually wasn't aware Angola is currently an 'official warzone' to be honest. I'm not sure who declares these things anyway.
I do know that being Africa, with its totally artificial 'country borders' inherited from the colonial era that its quite likely that there are loads of independance movements for certain areas. Most of the 'countries' are not countries as we would define them in Europe, but this is the ACN and it has to be held somewhere, and preferably not just the same 4/5 Northern countries every time.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

As for the second part, we both know that either situation would have been much more able to drastically up their levels of security after both events due to much greater advantages in terms of International cooperation; technological and human technique and personnel; the fact that neither event was taking part in a war zone.

Again, its Africa - a good 80% of the countries have been warzones in the last 2 generations and those conflicts continue to a greater or lesser extent to this day. I agree about the 'beefing up security' thing which Germany and the US were able to do and which other countries can't. But we then get to the situation that major sporting events can only ever be held in maybe 30 safe Western countries. So no Cricket World Cup in India / Sri Lanka in 2 years, Soccer World Cup in Brazil could be dodgy etc.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If you ask me what the "right thing to do was" well, particularly in the case of Munich, I am of the opinion that continuing the games was an affront to those who had died - and their relatives.

I guess we have to disagree on this - I'd be 100% in the 'the show must go on' grouping. Interestingly its my understanding that Israel (the major victim of the '72 Olympics) was very determined to carry on as well.

LuckyLloyd

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I guess we have to disagree on this - I'd be 100% in the 'the show must go on' grouping. Interestingly its my understanding that Israel (the major victim of the '72 Olympics) was very determined to carry on as well.

The show goes on for political reasons, a show of national will / national determination / blah, blah. I can only speak of my personal experience when I've had deaths in the family / major personal events - but sport goes way down the back burner in such situations. Israel may have been determined to carry on, but I can't imagine the families were too pleased.

I think the tournament is tainted now. I am normally a huge fan of the ANC, and would have watched the games with interest. But I shall not be bothering now.

ArmaniJeanss

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The show goes on for political reasons, a show of national will / national determination / blah, blah. I can only speak of my personal experience when I've had deaths in the family / major personal events - but sport goes way down the back burner in such situations. Israel may have been determined to carry on, but I can't imagine the families were too pleased.

Different strokes for different folks.
My Dad died just after midnight on a Friday evening when I was 11. At 10AM on the Saturday morning I was getting togged out for my DDSL U12 game.
It seemed (and still seems 25+ years later) the correct thing to do. Others may see it as strange.

So I think the Togolese government should have left it up to the players, and if 11..14 of them were willing to play on then they should have been allowed.

flahavaj

I would be of the opinion that the tournament going ahead sends a message that terrorism does not work, that sport endures in even the most trying of circumstances.

I'd also agree however that the decision was and should be down to the players and management of the team rather than that of the Togolese government. Everyone reacts to tragedy in a different way, where some would want to play on to honour the memory of those who died, others would find it distasteful. Either decision is necessarlily correct IMO, it is totally down to those invloved to call it as they see it. No one else should make that call on their behalf.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

ArmaniJeanss

Talk of the Togo team returning after a 3-day period of mourning.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/10/01/10/SOCCER_Togo_Nightlead.html&TEAMHD=soccer

Hopefully FIFA, CAF and the opposing teams would agree to a rejig of the tournament to enable this if its what the players want.

Though (and I'm just throwing this out there) it would mean either a) an extra couple of days having to be added to the competition or b) some players, (Togo and also their group opponents) having to play maybe 4 games in 8/9 days, neither of which may not go down too well in amongst certain club managers.

Dempsey

I think Wenger's comments about the tournament needing to go ahead to not let the terrorists win is right. And I think once the Togo team have grieved, they'll want to be playing in that tournament to honour those who were killed. If they cant compete, I think it will stick long in their memory as a regret or unfinished business.

Spiritoftheseventies

This from former Irish under 20 Richard Sadlier from his column in yesterdays Sindo. talks a lot of sense.

It is a joy to be a professional footballer, and an honour to represent your country. It is a unique lifestyle, but even so, there are some things you just never expect to have to deal with.

The African Cup of Nations is due to begin today. On Friday, as the Togo team bus was crossing the border into Angola from the Republic of Congo, they were ambushed by rebels, said to be acting on behalf of the Front for the Liberation of the Enclave of Cabinda.

Machine guns opened fire for over a half an hour, injuring several people. Tragically, three are reported to have died: the team's assistant coach, their press officer, and the bus driver.

The knee-jerk reaction seems to be to call into question the wisdom of hosting this year's World Cup in South Africa. The same concerns were raised in 1999 prior to the commencement of the U20 World Cup finals in Nigeria. I was there as part of the Ireland squad, and from the moment we landed, we couldn't help wondering why the hell it was staged there at all.

Upon our arrival, we were not allowed leave the airport by the police because it was after dark. Though they were fully armed, they said they were not prepared to accompany us along the main highway to our hotel. The area was notorious for attacks similar to that which occurred on Friday, and apparently we would not have been expected to complete the short journey unscathed. We stayed at the airport hotel for the evening as a result.

During our stay, we were not allowed to leave the hotel under any circumstances. The Saudi Arabian, Mexican and Australian squads were staying in the same place as us, so armed guards were stationed at each end of every hotel floor.

We were given police escorts everywhere. Initially, it seemed excessive travelling to training each day with sirens blaring and police vans in front and behind us, but when we learned of the risks involved, we quickly understood.

With very little room to manoeuvre because of the security restrictions, it was incredibly boring. I picked up the local newspaper one afternoon and read with horror of an attack which had happened the previous day on the stretch of road we were due to travel on when we first arrived at the airport. A group had been ambushed, robbed and killed. Their bodies were dismembered and decapitated.

For a variety of reasons, that tournament in Nigeria was one of the most memorable experiences of my life. It was chaos from start to finish. I remember hearing the Nigerian team bus was attacked by locals following a poor result. The team bus was stoned as they left the ground. When the locals realised there weren't enough stones to go around, those without showed remarkably quick thinking by urinating into their empty drinks containers and throwing them instead.

Manchester City's Emmanuel Adebayor was on the Togo bus when it was attacked, and several other Premier League players are due to compete over the next few weeks. Every manager questioned has put the wellbeing of their players before anything else, and hoped that regardless of how the remainder of the tournament is affected, they return safely.

Togo withdrew their squad yesterday, and called for other countries to do the same. As for the suitability of South Africa to host the World Cup, it is ignorant to assume that events in one part of a continent have any bearing on another.

However, Phil Brown, who has two of his players in Angola at the moment, was quick to link the two. As the search for the phantom woman he saved from suicide a few months ago continues, the Hull City manager once again opened his mouth without engaging his brain.

Though London has been the target for terrorist attacks on many occasions, I've never once heard Brown raise fears about bringing his players there.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/war-games-spark-flood-of-ignorance-2007179.html

cournioni

The Question is, Did Adebayor run the length of the bus to celebrate in front of the Gunners?


















Apologies... Couldn't resist.

Spiritoftheseventies

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

The Question is, Did Adebayor run the length of the bus to celebrate in front of the Gunners?


















Apologies... Couldn't resist.

thats poor man.

BaZmO*

bayviewclose wrote: »

This from former Irish under 20 Richard Sadlier from his column in yesterdays Sindo. talks a lot of sense.



http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/war-games-spark-flood-of-ignorance-2007179.html

Not sure what point Sadlier is trying to make other than having a go at Phil Brown.

Spiritoftheseventies

BaZmO* wrote: »

Not sure what point Sadlier is trying to make other than having a go at Phil Brown.

Point he was making that to question whether World Cup in South Africa should still go on in light of what happened is a bit silly. the two destinations are miles apart. But was a bit intrigued by that remark about Brown and that phantom woman. Did he save her from suicide or not??

That_Guy

According to Eurosport commentators, if Togo don't show up for their scheduled match then they'll be disqualified.

Mitch Connor

According to the BBC, Togo have asked to play after 3 days of mourning, but CAF has rejected their request.

That_Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

According to the BBC, Togo have asked to play after 3 days of mourning, but CAF has rejected their request.

I think they're foolish to not allow them to play considering what happened. I'm still not sure how they're altering their group with only three teams in there.

It'd make sense from an organisational point of view to allow them play instead of confusing people (me) by making changes to the group/tournament with the loss of one team.

Mitch Connor

That_Guy wrote: »

I think they're foolish to not allow them to play considering what happened. I'm still not sure how they're altering their group with only three teams in there.

It'd make sense from an organisational point of view to allow them play instead of confusing people (me) by making changes to the group/tournament with the loss of one team.

whichever 2 teams top the group of 3 via points and GD surely?

That_Guy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

whichever 2 teams top the group of 3 via points and GD surely?

Yeah perhaps. I just get confused easily.... Don't mind me.

leninbenjamin

Mitch Connor wrote: »

According to the BBC, Togo have asked to play after 3 days of mourning, but CAF has rejected their request.

RTÉ have ran with that aswell. Seems to be based on comments from Togo's sports minister. If true it could turn into a PR mess, and do CAF a lot of damage.

Vampireskiss

Maybe the FAI should ask FIFA if Ireland can take Togo's place:D

GLaDOS

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Maybe the FAI should ask FIFA if Ireland can take Togo's place:D

What an original idea

Spiritoftheseventies

Incredible lack of sensitivity displayed by CAF to disqualify Togo for failing to fulfil their first fixture. Word was Togo wanted three days of mourning and then were prepared to play game.
Thought FIFA would have stepped in there to make a judgement on affair. Very sad for football when it comes to this

kinaldo

Togo have been reinstated to the Cup of Nations which has now been switched to odds years in an effort to combat the poor performances of African nations during World Cup years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/africa/8682511.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/africa/8685251.stm