All schools closed until weds

Sponge Bob

Announced by Batt O Keefe but no detailed info on education.ie bar that .

zagmund

Wouldn't have happened in our day.

But seriously, what's the story here ? I understand there are problems getting to schools, etc . . . but there have been problems getting to work for over a week at this stage. Why the differentiation between schools and the rest of the economy ? Meaning that they should have been on this a lot earlier.

z

anotherlostie

Actually they are closed until Thursday. Presume this is based on the heavy snow dumping we expect on Sunday over most of the country. Will look a bit silly if the South escapes again, though I don't know how bad the roads are down there already anyway.

spongeman

The problem is it is too icy, the snow is not the problem. Entrances to schools will not have been treated.

This country is gone to pieces.

amacachi

spongeman wrote: »

The problem is it is too icy, the snow is not the problem. Entrances to schools will not have been treated.

This country is gone to pieces.

My sister's school was open yesterday and today, they closed one entrance and treated the other one. There was no noticable dip in attendance, despite a fair number who travel in from the countryside. The other sister's school was closed yesterday but open today when they realised there was no need to stay closed.

corktina

up to 5" expected sunday /monday in Munster and Leinster.Im told this is due to a moisture laden airstream expected from the Gulf Stream which will fall as snow over frozen land masses, so i doubt the south will escape. Heavy snow in Munster is highly unusal im told. Certainlty ive seen nothing more than a smattering in 23 years

In my home town of Reading, they are predicting weather to equal 1947 (worse than 1963 ) and flooding to follow when it thaws...

dolliemix

They don't have enough salt to grit the roads so they're trying to keep people traveling to a minimum.

The difference between the general public going to work and schools being open is that there are thousands of children involved!

dixiefly

dolliemix wrote: »

They don't have enough salt to grit the roads so they're trying to keep people traveling to a minimum.

The difference between the general public going to work and schools being open is that there are thousands of children involved!

My thoughts exactly!

There was a strategic meeting today and I would reckon that one of the topics was to try and minimise travel and, allied to the safety card, this was the reason they made this decision.

irishangel

Link to department of education and science website

http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10876&sectionpage=12251&language=EN&link=link001&page=1&doc=47616

foggy_lad

what a shower of wasters! they cant grit the roads so they close all the schools meaning that many people will have to take time off work or pay huge amounts for child minding. poor decisions from ill-prepared and ill-informed fools!

parsi

Should have left it to local management / parents - our school was perfectly accessible and has a catchment area which has decent road conditions.

Now folk are faced with taking additional days off straight after the long Christmas spell and mid-term is still to come.

thetonynator

No school!!!

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

dolliemix

foggy_lad wrote: »

what a shower of wasters! they cant grit the roads so they close all the schools meaning that many people will have to take time off work or pay huge amounts for child minding. poor decisions from ill-prepared and ill-informed fools!

Right and if you get a phone call saying your child split his head open and the ambulance didn't make it on time..........

Nevyn

It's not just the roads, it is the cost and the amount of oil needed to heat the schools continuously while the kids are in there. Each school has a fix set budget for heating and can't go over it. Last year the schools had to do extra fundraising after the February cold snap.

parsi

Despite what everybody is saying the entire country isn't at a standstill.

Its not a second ice age.

Running is banned in most schools so there's sweet all chance of the kids cracking open their skulls...

dolliemix

parsi wrote: »

Despite what everybody is saying the entire country isn't at a standstill.

Its not a second ice age.

Running is banned in most schools so there's sweet all chance of the kids cracking open their skulls...

There have been over 4000 people admitted to hospitals in since Christmas week with broken limbs or fractures......and they weren't all running!

What makes you think you have to be running in order to fall?

irishangel

parsi wrote: »

Should have left it to local management / parents - our school was perfectly accessible and has a catchment area which has decent road conditions.

on the site it says

Minister O'Keeffe stressed that the decision will not affect the local decision-making powers of school boards of management.

but I doubt any schools board of management will take the risk if there is a risk to the welfare and safety of their pupils, staff and parents.

spongeman

Running is banned in most schools but that does not stop them from doing it.

After all walking will result in falls.

#15

parsi wrote: »

Running is banned in most schools so there's sweet all chance of the kids cracking open their skulls...

Running is not banned in most schools.

bangersandmash

parsi wrote: »

Despite what everybody is saying the entire country isn't at a standstill.

Its not a second ice age.

Running is banned in most schools so there's sweet all chance of the kids cracking open their skulls...

Actually, judging by interviews made on the RTE Six One/Nine news this evening (and pure common sense), the main concern is regarding children walking or being driven to school early next week after the predicted extreme conditions on Sunday. The lack of grit in many areas will exacerbate the situation.

Even in many suburban areas of Dublin close to the city centre secondary roads and footpaths are very dangerous. Conditions are far worse outside Dublin. If your school is easily accessible, then you're lucky. There's no point arguing about supplies of salt and grit at this stage, so it sounds like the DoE decision was quite sensible.

I'd have to question the priorities of somebody concerned about the cost of childcare arrangements for 1-3 days, when the welfare of many children (and parents) is at stake.

parsi

bangersandmash wrote: »

Actually, judging by interviews made on the RTE Six One/Nine news this evening (and pure common sense), the main concern is regarding children walking or being driven to school early next week after the predicted extreme conditions on Sunday. The lack of grit in many areas will exacerbate the situation.

As mentioned - the roads to our school is clear. The yard is of such a size that running is prohibited. Our children are escorted to the gate. There's sweet all untreated area available to them at the best of times let alone during bad weather.

bangersandmash wrote: »

I'd have to question the priorities of somebody concerned about the cost of childcare arrangements for 1-3 days, when the welfare of many children (and parents) is at stake.

Question away my friend. I'd have to question a society where a brief winter spell causes such uproar and pure gob****e-edness. Grow up - the welfare of kids isn't at stake. If Batty was worried about kids welfare then he wouldn't be part of a government that puts the national flag at half-mast to mark the death of a dessicated cardinal. As a kid I only ever recall school being closed (and that was once) due to a severe snowfall.

Perhaps you don't realise the facts of the issue - many families have both parents working. Many families have taken days off for a fairly extended Christmas holiday. Many parents are now faced with 3 days extra. Many parents have also to deal with the requirements of the mid-term break. For most parents the new holiday year doesn't begin until after the mid-term break,

For many parents they are looking at taking holidays even though their local schools are perfectly accessible - that's what galls me. I'll be taking my kids for a long walk and we'll pass the school...

I'm looking at taking 1.5 days leave next week - the relevant teachers won't have this taken out of their leave but I can't ask m employer to give me a "bye".

bangersandmash

parsi wrote: »

As mentioned - the roads to our school is clear. The yard is of such a size that running is prohibited. Our children are escorted to the gate. There's sweet all untreated area available to them at the best of times let alone during bad weather.

Congratulations. You live in an area that isn't affected by the current weather, and where the yard is of an inadequate size. You're not necessarily representative of everyone in the country.

parsi wrote: »

Question away my friend. I'd have to question a society where a brief winter spell causes such uproar and pure gob****e-edness.

I don't disagree that the overall situation has been handled poorly, but what do you expect can be done at this stage?

parsi wrote: »

Grow up - the welfare of kids isn't at stake. If Batty was worried about kids welfare then he wouldn't be part of a government that puts the national flag at half-mast to mark the death of a dessicated cardinal.

Again, it depends on the area in which you live. Besides, how is your own personal grievance with the Catholic church remotely related to current events?

parsi wrote: »

Perhaps you don't realise the facts of the issue - many families have both parents working. Many families have taken days off for a fairly extended Christmas holiday.

Perhaps they should not have taken extended holidays? As I have said before, in many cases it will be a choice between the safety of children (and parents, and everyone else on the roads) and taking extra days holidays.

parsi wrote: »

I'll be taking my kids for a long walk and we'll pass the school...

Seriously, do you want a slap on the back? In many areas this would be completely irresponsible - just look at our over-subscribed A&E departments at the moment.

koHd

Well I've been lucky not to have bad slips when I've been walking slowly. Only just grabbed onto the nearest pole/tree/bush a fair few times to stop me goin. And the auld lad had a very bad fall while walking and was stuck in bed for a few days with hurt ribs. So you don't have to be running to fall in these conditions.

parsi

You fail to see my point. My point is about my situation. That is why I used words such as "my" and "our". That's why I never claimed to be "representative of everyone in the country".

Our school is unaffected by the weather - thankfully.

We don't need a diktat from on high to tell us that our school should close.

It will be quite difficult to gain sympathy from an employer when they know that the catchment area is not suffering.

Regarding the walk - as stated (it was quite clear) our area is safe - therefore taking the kids for a walk isn't "irresponsible". It is actually quite responsible in ensuring that they have freah air and exercise.

parsi

koHd wrote: »

Well I've been lucky not to have bad slips when I've been walking slowly. Only just grabbed onto the nearest pole/tree/bush a fair few times to stop me goin. And the auld lad had a very bad fall while walking and was stuck in bed for a few days with hurt ribs. So you don't have to be running to fall in these conditions.

We were discussing running in the context of a small enclosed school yard rather than an untreated lethal public footpath.

Then again as mentioned my local area is very clear of icy patches (thankfully because I'd slip as soon as see an icy patch) but obviously (it seems to need mention) I am not "representative of everyone in the country"

bangersandmash

parsi wrote: »

You fail to see my point. My point is about my situation. That is why I used words such as "my" and "our". That's why I never claimed to be "representative of everyone in the country".

The problem is that it's probably rather difficult to draw up a countrywide list of schools that are and are not open during next week, particularly given the uncertainty regarding weather conditions over the weekend. The sensible option is to close the school. If you want to bring your children for walks in whatever happen to be the conditions in your neighbourhood, that's obviously your prerogative. As discussed on RTE, the closure of schools is more to do with the problem of commuting to those schools, rather than any issue about school yards.

parsi

Or you could do as our school did - send the Kids home on Friday with a note to check the website on Sunday evening for updates. So if the snow bypasses Cork then all's OK.

I doubt that _every_ school needs to be closed.

I don't doubt that there are plenty that have to close.

corktina

from the practical point of getting on with ones job, its been a godsend that the schools havent been open since before xmas.At least that has meant a LOT less traffic. Ive driven hundreds of miles on icy roads since before xmas and have managed without drama.However it isnt the ice thats the hazzard, its the other motorists and the fewer of them the better just at the moment. (oh and dont tell me Cork has missed out on the bad weather....north cork is still fully frozen since before xmas...

howiya

On the brightside hopefully this will save the country money or will our gob****e government pay teachers for the extra days off?

musicfan

I don't understand this.

They were saying on the news last night that in the interest of safety for the kids that they were closing the schools.

What about the interest of all the adults that have to go to work?

Are they saying that the health and safety of kids is more important than us adults.

foggy_lad

parsi wrote: »

We were discussing running in the context of a small enclosed school yard rather than an untreated lethal public footpath.

Then again as mentioned my local area is very clear of icy patches (thankfully because I'd slip as soon as see an icy patch) but obviously (it seems to need mention) I am not "representative of everyone in the country"

most responsible schools would have kept children in during this weather so slipping in the yard would not be an issue

corktina wrote: »

from the practical point of getting on with ones job, its been a godsend that the schools havent been open since before xmas.At least that has meant a LOT less traffic. Ive driven hundreds of miles on icy roads since before xmas and have managed without drama.However it isnt the ice thats the hazzard, its the other motorists and the fewer of them the better just at the moment. (oh and dont tell me Cork has missed out on the bad weather....north cork is still fully frozen since before xmas...

more traffic will break down the snow and ice faster!

musicfan wrote: »

I don't understand this.

They were saying on the news last night that in the interest of safety for the kids that they were closing the schools.

What about the interest of all the adults that have to go to work?

Are they saying that the health and safety of kids is more important than us adults.

those darling children that are now out of school will be outdoors anyway throwing lumps of ice encrusted snow at the few passing motorists trying to make their way to and from work! and very few of them will end up with broken limbs! theyt would be much safer in school!

dowlingm

While the decision makes sense, a lot of people are going to have problems with childminding etc. for those three days if their private sector employers don't see things the same way.

The Minister should make it clear that the three days will be made up for at the end of the school year.

dolliemix

dowlingm wrote: »

While the decision makes sense, a lot of people are going to have problems with childminding etc. for those three days if their private sector employers don't see things the same way.

The Minister should make it clear that the three days will be made up for at the end of the school year.

And how would that help with the child minding for this week?

#15

foggy_lad wrote: »

those darling children that are now out of school will be outdoors anyway throwing lumps of ice encrusted snow at the few passing motorists trying to make their way to and from work! and very few of them will end up with broken limbs! theyt would be much safer in school!

We must have bad parents in this country.

#15

dowlingm wrote: »

While the decision makes sense, a lot of people are going to have problems with childminding etc. for those three days if their private sector employers don't see things the same way.

The Minister should make it clear that the three days will be made up for at the end of the school year.

Schools are not childminding services though.

Is it just in Ireland that parents complain about having to mind their own children?

dowlingm

dolliemix - those were two separate points (the second being that children's education year is short enough as it is) but since you ask it means working parents would not lose out on a net basis by having to arrange childcare now and for three summer days they already expected to.

#15 - school is not a childcare service but when kids aren't in school they have to be supervised. With the coming economy many stay-at-home parents may have to seek employment to keep their families solvent, as two lower incomes try to match one previously higher one.

parsi

#15 wrote: »

Schools are not childminding services though.

Is it just in Ireland that parents complain about having to mind their own children?

You seem to be missing the point - it's all grand and fine for Batty to close the schools. The teachers will still get paid. However working parents will have to make arrangements to deal with the fact that their children will not be at school .

Parents will have allocated their leave for Christmas, in-service days, early-closing and mid-terms - now with an additional three days most peoples holiday allowances will be stretched to cope. It's not a trivial issue.

loyatemu

there's a serious thaw going on here (north wicklow) and Met.ie is forcasting 7 degrees for Wednesday - this shutdown is starting to look a bit hasty.

foggy_lad

loyatemu wrote: »

there's a serious thaw going on here (north wicklow) and Met.ie is forcasting 7 degrees for Wednesday - this shutdown is starting to look a bit hasty.

serious thaw on in carlow also. will the decision be reversed? i would think that once those free holidays have been given to teachers they will not give them up without a mighty fight!

dolliemix

dowlingm wrote: »

dolliemix - those were two separate points (the second being that children's education year is short enough as it is) but since you ask it means working parents would not lose out on a net basis by having to arrange childcare now and for three summer days they already expected to.

#15 - school is not a childcare service but when kids aren't in school they have to be supervised. With the coming economy many stay-at-home parents may have to seek employment to keep their families solvent, as two lower incomes try to match one previously higher one.

parsi wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point - it's all grand and fine for Batty to close the schools. The teachers will still get paid. However working parents will have to make arrangements to deal with the fact that there children will not be at school .

Parents will have allocated their leave for Christmas, in-service days, early-closing and mid-terms - now with an additional three days most peoples holiday allowances will be stretched to cope. It's not a trivial issue.

So what do you suggest?

Open the schools and double the amount of admittances into A & E?

The children's welfare will always come first. So for while, it might be inconvenient for you, but at least we know that accidents are being prevented. Put it this way - the school stays open, a child falls and splits their head. Due to already stressed emergency services and dangerous road conditions, the ambulance doesn't make it on time...

Parents have to deal with these exceptional situations when they arise. They're your children. Your sense of entitlement stops when health and safety is involved.

I personally don't think the academic year is too short, but thats a different topic.

When the journey to and from school is dangerous for the majority of children in the country - the fact that you may have to re-arrange a child-minder is trivial imo.

parsi

I don't have a sense of entitlement. Like many other parents I'm out there with the committee fundraising to cover the shortfall in the schools.

What I do want is notice taken that school events do have a ripple effect. If Batty wants to close the schools why not also inform us that those days will be made up at mid-term break ?

ardmacha

why not also inform us that those days will be made up at mid-term break ?

In a week when the Minister of Transport refused to amend his holiday plans to reflect the weather, why do you think that teachers should have to amend their holiday plans to reflect the weather? One rule for the elite?

loyatemu

ardmacha wrote: »

In a week when the Minister of Transport refused to amend his holiday plans to reflect the weather, why do you think that teachers should have to amend their holiday plans to reflect the weather? One rule for the elite?

not just the teachers, a lot of families would have holiday plans for the mid-term that can't be easily changed. Perhaps in-service days could be used to makeup the shortfall.

In any case, forcing all schools to stay closed until Thursday looks ridiculous now, many places will probably be ice-free by Tuesday.

dolliemix

parsi wrote: »

I don't have a sense of entitlement. Like many other parents I'm out there with the committee fundraising to cover the shortfall in the schools.

What I do want is notice taken that school events do have a ripple effect. If Batty wants to close the schools why not also inform us that those days will be made up at mid-term break ?

Well, you would have been doing even more fundraising when the injury claims started coming in...

You can't make plans for mid-term at this stage. There's not enough notice. A lot of schools do their school trips during the mid-term. Teachers accompany them (voluntarily :eek:). How would you get those teachers covered?

There's plenty of other reasons I'm sure that principals would have to deal with and that, those of us, not involved in managing a school, would even think about.

And if you're going to respond - that you have to get a childminder at short notice this week - there's no comparison between managing a school and being responsible for the welfare of hundreds of children and organising your own two or three children for a few days.

corktina

snoowing fairly heavily here fellers....talk of thaw could be premature...

#15

foggy_lad wrote: »

serious thaw on in carlow also. will the decision be reversed? i would think that once those free holidays have been given to teachers they will not give them up without a mighty fight!

Have you a sensible or intelligent contribution to make?

Do you realise that many young teachers want to be in schools, working? Teachers employed on a substitute basis do not get paid for these days. They want to work, but can't.

highlydebased

corktina wrote: »

snoowing fairly heavily here fellers....talk of thaw could be premature...

Same here...Roads are just as bad if not worse than previous evenings today

Kastiel

Am in Clare and it's been heavy snowing all day, the worst my area has seen so far.

parsi

dolliemix wrote: »

A lot of schools do their school trips during the mid-term. Teachers accompany them (voluntarily :eek:). .

At no expense to themselves :rolleyes: . But that's a different discussion for a different forum.

My point is not about child minding. Indeed it's not about teachers holidays. It's not about early closing for holidays. It's about having to realise that schools are an integral part of our systems. Suddenly shutting down that part of the system will have an effect on the rest of the system. It's the lack of planning inrelation to the side-effects that has gone into this decision that's the problem.

If the INTO go ahead with industrial action (their CEC met yesterday) then we'll be faced with this all over again.

dolliemix

parsi wrote: »

At no expense to themselves :rolleyes: . But that's a different discussion for a different forum.

I'm not going to even read the rest of your post based on the above statement.

DWCommuter

Met Eireann have over elaborated on the weather forecast. The Government committee called it based on the weather. It now transpires that many many schools will be safe and accessible. If they worked at weekends they could get a lot of schools back tomorrow morning. But they are currently chewing some nice beef and enjoying some kind of Pat Short comedy effort on the box so not tonight Josephine!

The closure was a good call based on predicted weather patterns and an example of a Government making decisions. (for a change) However Tuesday was a bit late for a review. The monitoring should have been continuous and "standby" the key word.