Taxi Rank - Foster Place South (Off Dame Street)

Cookie_Monster

howiya wrote: »

Why should the City Council be responsible for providing more space for taxis to rank?

Exactly, if anything these spaces should have been left or turned into something useful like a bus stop, bus lane, cycle track, stop for the new bike scheme or similar. Putting in another unneeded rank just to pander to private business interests serves no-one

howiya

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Exactly, if anything these spaces should have been left or turned into something useful like a bus stop, bus lane, cycle track, stop for the new bike scheme or similar. Putting in another unneeded rank just to pander to private business interests serves no-one

Well my argument is that it isn't benefiting private business interests eg the Commercial Rate payers in the city.

I do agree that the rank in this area was sufficient. Other posters have referred to the need for ranks in other places. This most certainly was not one of them

Gumbo

howiya wrote: »

Get real

:rolleyes: what is wrong with the other spots?
just because 5 street spots are converted to a rank, people are up in arms?

what about business shops on Grafton Street, are they shouting for parking spots outside their doors?

we have nearly 30,000 taxis in Dublin and 580 taxi rank spots, you do the maths on that one.

Fosters place is a dead end cul de sac, its of no use to put a bus stop, or cycle lane or anything else in there really. Maybe when Trinity College Refurbish their building in there over the next year or so, we might see a revised and more vibrant Fosters Place, but for now its a taxi rank/loading bay, we just have to deal with it.

howiya

kceire wrote: »

:rolleyes: what is wrong with the other spots?
just because 5 street spots are converted to a rank, people are up in arms?

what about business shops on Grafton Street, are they shouting for parking spots outside their doors?

we have nearly 30,000 taxis in Dublin and 580 taxi rank spots, you do the maths on that one.

Fosters place is a dead end cul de sac, its of no use to put a bus stop, or cycle lane or anything else in there really. Maybe when Trinity College Refurbish their building in there over the next year or so, we might see a revised and more vibrant Fosters Place, but for now its a taxi rank/loading bay, we just have to deal with it.

There's nothing wrong with the other spots. However private motorists will prefer to use free spots which are most convenient to them in the same way taxi drivers do.

Yes Fosters Place is nothing. It is known as a place to park though. Now you can't do that anymore.

City Council complaining of not having revenue and at the same time giving up parking spaces to a taxi rank. You can't even get a taxi from Foster's Place so it serves no purpose to create 5 extra taxi spaces here.

I don't agree with the OP that he should be able to park here for free. I suggested that it should be pay and display 24 hours.

There may well be 30,000 taxis in Dublin but that is relevant unless you are suggesting that there should be ranks to facilitate each and every one of them as there will never be enough rank space in Dublin for all the taxis we have

penexpers

howiya wrote: »

A taxi sitting vacant at a rank for whatever length of time whether it be minutes or hours does not constitute a public service.

I think being available for hire is a public service.

howiya

penexpers wrote: »

I think being available for hire is a public service.

If a driver doesn't provide a service how can it be called a public service. You either provide a service to the public or you don't

Cookie_Monster

howiya wrote: »

Well my argument is that it isn't benefiting private business interests eg the Commercial Rate payers in the city.

I do agree that the rank in this area was sufficient. Other posters have referred to the need for ranks in other places. This most certainly was not one of them

private business as in Taxis I meant

Gumbo

howiya wrote: »

If a driver doesn't provide a service how can it be called a public service. You either provide a service to the public or you don't

which is exactly what a taxi is doing, its providing a service.

when a dublin bus leaves the first stop of a route, if nobody gets on in the first few stops, does it stop being a public service just because it is plying for hire??????????

howiya

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

private business as in Taxis I meant

Business is business. Only difference is that taxi drivers don't pay for the concessions they're being provided by the Council

howiya

kceire wrote: »

which is exactly what a taxi is doing, its providing a service.

when a dublin bus leaves the first stop of a route, if nobody gets on in the first few stops, does it stop being a public service just because it is plying for hire??????????

Huge difference in the licenses that Dublin Bus operate under and that of a taxi. Dublin Bus are licensed to provide a service on each route at the times specified in the timetable.

Taxis are not under such obligations and pick and choose the rank that they start from, hours they work etc.

Dublin Bus provide a public service regardless of the number of passengers as per their license

penexpers

howiya wrote: »

If a driver doesn't provide a service how can it be called a public service. You either provide a service to the public or you don't

Being available for hire is a service.

howiya

penexpers wrote: »

Being available for hire is a service.

To who? If a dry cleaner is open five days a week but I never ask them to do my dry cleaning then they never provide me with a service.

Taxis while licensed to provide a public service are similar in that they only provide that service when asked to by a patron.

Contrast their license terms to that of Dublin Bus, Flybus, Swords Express etc. These services are required to provide a bus at a certain time on a certain route. This is an example of a public service.

A taxi driver who can decide whether he wants to work or not at any given time (and rightly so) is not providing a public service.

The service he/she provides is motivated by their own self interest as with any other business.

penexpers

howiya wrote: »

To who?

The public?
By being open for business a dry cleaners is providing a service to the public. It's the same for any service providers, taxis included. By being available to provide the service, they are providing a service.

Take another example, I've only been to see my Doctor once in the past year, but she's still provided me with a service for the whole year by being available for appointments. I wouldn't be able to avail of the services of the Doctor if my Doctor wasn't available for appointments, same way I could never hire a taxi if they weren't available for hire.

Victor

howiya wrote: »

Nothing in what you have said contradicts anything I have said. A taxi is a licensed PUBLIC service vehicle as you say. However there is no obligation to the public attached to this license. People can call a leopard a tiger but it's till a leopard.

A taxi sitting vacant at a rank for whatever length of time whether it be minutes or hours does not constitute a public service. It is only when the driver takes a fare that he/she is engaged in providing a public service.

I disagree. Some redundant capacity is immensely useful. Knowing that I can go to the rank and find a taxi is much better than hoping for one.

howiya wrote: »

Yes the original poster's argument of wanting to stop and buy a coffee is a weak one (regardless of the strength of the coffee). My point is that businesses pay Commercial Rates and if potential customers of that business want to park nearby without getting clamped then they should be able to.

And they can. there are hundreds of spaces in the Temple Bar and Andrew's Lane car parks and hundreds more in other side streets. However, if we all wanted to park int he city centre, I imagine there would be a problem and that problem needs to be regulated. How do you propose to regulate it?

It was only November when the council made it's pay and display areas free in a bid to boost trade in the city for the Christmas period.

A meaningless sop to a small number of business that cost he council hundreds of thousands of euro.

The point is on street parking is important to businesses whether you think it is or not.

No, its a subsidy that proprietors and management types demand for themselves and certain customers.

howiya wrote: »

Why should the City Council be responsible for providing more space for taxis to rank?

Because (a) its the council's road (b) the law says this is a power that councils have.

Spook_ie

howiya wrote: »

If a driver doesn't provide a service how can it be called a public service. You either provide a service to the public or you don't

The fact he's there to provide the service to the public makes it a public service, if you avail of it or not is irrelevant, like buses/ambulances/garda or fire engines we don't all avail of their public services but they are there all the same..

HotSwap

dereko1969 wrote: »

this whole thread is so that some numpty can park for free right beside where he drinks his awful coffee on a sofa so he can pretend he's monica from friends, jesus wept.

taxipete has explained that it's more beneficial for nearly everyone (apart from you) that taxis aren't continuously driving around the city centre plying for trade. i'm not the biggest fan of taxi drivers but this is a non-issue.

No need for personal attacks. Get over that fact that my initial argument was a bit silly, I did not know that this thread was going to be popular and that a lot of people would be posting.

HotSwap

I have already proposed a solution, you should make it necessary to hold a particular permit for certain busy ranks. They have already done this with the airport rank.

This way you could make the ranks smaller as you would only have a subset of drivers that can use the rank.

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

I have already proposed a solution, you should make it necessary to hold a particular permit for certain busy ranks. They have already done this with the airport rank.

This way you could make the ranks smaller as you would only have a subset of drivers that can use the rank.

Preposterous, totally preposterous. The airport is a private site for them to do as they so wish; a public street is just that; a public street.

By the way, you made a point about you paying more road tax than a taxi. While you are correct in the road tax rate, I feel the €100-€150 a week I contribute in taxes and excises via my fuel bill more than makes up for the deficit.

HotSwap

Hamndegger wrote: »

Preposterous, totally preposterous. The airport is a private site for them to do as they so wish; a public street is just that; a public street.

At least i'm trying to come up with some ideas. So, whats your solution, just keep building ranks until there is nowhere to park in the city?

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

At least i'm trying to come up with some ideas. So, whats your solution, just keep building ranks until there is nowhere to park in the city?

Once again, there is plenty of parking in Dublin city centre; does the fact that your blessed space was always free not tell you that there is a surplus of space? However there is no escaping that there is a clear need for additional taxi rank space in Dublin both in terms of expanding and adapting some of the ranks that are there as well as adding new ranks in places that are prominent and likely to be frequented by the general public.

Like Vicar Street. Like Nassau Street. Like Harcourt and Camden Street. Like the O2 etc etc

Victor

HotSwap wrote: »

At least i'm trying to come up with some ideas. So, whats your solution, just keep building ranks until there is nowhere to park in the city?

40,000 parking spaces in the city centre, 580 rank spaces in the whole city.

AlekSmart

Taxis while licensed to provide a public service are similar in that they only provide that service when asked to by a patron.

Howiya does raise a somewhat interesting point here.

Several times in the recent past I have had people telling me of Taxi drivers refusing to take their business because it apparently was not in the direction which the Taxidriver wanted to go at that time.

Two of these people lived in Bray whilst the third was from Rush.

I was always of the understanding that a Taxi plying for trade was OBLIGED to take whatever fare offered irrespective of whether it suited the Driver or not.

What IS the actual legal position on plying for hire,as if the TaxiDriver has a veto over the procedure,then surely the entire Industry is better described as a Private Hire business ?

Are my informants just unlucky or is there a problem there ?

howiya

AlekSmart wrote: »

Howiya does raise a somewhat interesting point here.

Several times in the recent past I have had people telling me of Taxi drivers refusing to take their business because it apparently was not in the direction which the Taxidriver wanted to go at that time.

Two of these people lived in Bray whilst the third was from Rush.

I was always of the understanding that a Taxi plying for trade was OBLIGED to take whatever fare offered irrespective of whether it suited the Driver or not.

What IS the actual legal position on plying for hire,as if the TaxiDriver has a veto over the procedure,then surely the entire Industry is better described as a Private Hire business ?

Are my informants just unlucky or is there a problem there ?

Taxi drivers have the right to refuse to carry a passenger requesting to travel in excess of 30km from the point of pick-up. A driver may also refuse a passenger who is disorderly.

Interestingly while on the Taxi Reg site I found out that you can pick any car at the rank you wish to travel in. Have often avoided sh1t cars when flagging a taxi down on the road but would imagine this would cause a row at a rank

HotSwap

howiya wrote: »

Interestingly while on the Taxi Reg site I found out that you can pick any car at the rank you wish to travel in. Have often avoided sh1t cars when flagging a taxi down on the road but would imagine this would cause a row at a rank

I usually pick the nicer cars alright. I don't see why I should sit in a crappy old car when I can get home in a modern Merc for example. and I usually never use ranks, mainly because sticking out my hand at any time on any street in dublin will get me a taxi in just a few moments.

But I will have to encourage my friends, family and co workers not to use ranks anymore. I would encourage people to hail taxies from the street if they disagree with what has happened with this rank, and what could happen with other ranks.

And guys there are a lot more cars than taxies, so clearly there is need for more parking in dublin than rank space. And most of these parking spaces are privately owned, are any of the multi story car parks owned by DCC?

parsi

howiya wrote: »

T

Interestingly while on the Taxi Reg site I found out that you can pick any car at the rank you wish to travel in. Have often avoided sh1t cars when flagging a taxi down on the road but would imagine this would cause a row at a rank

I've done it on a few occasions without problem. I don't see why the guy with the nice clean polished car shouldn't be picked just because yer man in his clapped out jap import is ahead of him.

HotSwap

parsi wrote: »

I've done it on a few occasions without problem. I don't see why the guy with the nice clean polished car shouldn't be picked just because yer man in his clapped out jap import is ahead of him.

This makes the whole rank thing irrelevant, you don't have to go for the car thats first in the queue, so really there is no point for them to be queueing.

Everyone should make sure to tell everyone they know about this rule. It might improve the standard of taxis in the city. I would even go so far as to hand out flyers at the rank, thats how annoyed I am at this whole thing.

Gumbo

HotSwap wrote: »

This makes the whole rank thing irrelevant, you don't have to go for the car thats first in the queue, so really there is no point for them to be queueing.

Everyone should make sure to tell everyone they know about this rule. It might improve the standard of taxis in the city. I would even go so far as to hand out flyers at the rank, thats how annoyed I am at this whole thing.

aghh just go get coffee somewhere else will you.............this rule has been around for years.

by your opinion then, whats the point of having private parking spots in the city.....you should just get the bus in then you wouldnt need a parking spot, end of, complication avoided.

you should very much like a victor meldrew type person judging by the content of the posts, it was 4 parking spots or there abouts :rolleyes:

howiya

HotSwap wrote: »

This makes the whole rank thing irrelevant, you don't have to go for the car thats first in the queue, so really there is no point for them to be queueing.

Everyone should make sure to tell everyone they know about this rule. It might improve the standard of taxis in the city. I would even go so far as to hand out flyers at the rank, thats how annoyed I am at this whole thing.

Bit extreme there but whatever helps you pass the time of day

HotSwap

kceire wrote: »

aghh just go get coffee somewhere else will you.............

I dont think so.

Why don't the taxi drivers face the fact that there is not as much demand for them as there was in the last 5 years. There is no longer need for this many taxis and rank spaces, its simple supply and demand.

The ranks were only useful on friday and saturday nights where there were people queueing for taxis. People can get a taxi anywhere in the city at any time now, ranks are not needed.

kceire wrote: »

this rule has been around for years.

Yeah, and now i'm going to tell people about it, and hopefully they will tell other people.

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

I dont think so.

Why don't the taxi drivers face the fact that there is not as much demand for them as there was in the last 5 years. There is no longer need for this many taxis and rank spaces, its simple supply and demand.

The ranks were only useful on friday and saturday nights where there were people queueing for taxis. People can get a taxi anywhere in the city at any time now, ranks are not needed.

Yeah, and now i'm going to tell people about it, and hopefully they will tell other people.

All this bitterness and malcontent over the loss of 5 parking space that you use for about 20 minute a month for a mug of coffee. You were not concerned enough about the loss of spaces for bus lanes, Dublin bikes, loading bays, bus stops etc etc but for the few minutes you want it, it's a disgrace that warrants a campaign that doesn't address those who made the change.

You really are a petulant trolling NIMBY.

Victor

HotSwap wrote: »

People can get a taxi anywhere in the city at any time now

Not really, there is still a problem in suburban areas where there aren't enough ranks or taxis cruising. It would be useful for every (meaningful) crossroads to have a small rank instead of every taxi in the city cruising from Camden Street to O'Connell Bridge and back.

And if there are so many taxis (and indeed many buses, trams and trains), why the need to drive to College Green? Its not as if carrying a cup of coffee is anything like the weight of a week's shopping.

Taxipete29

HotSwap wrote: »

I dont think so.

Why don't the taxi drivers face the fact that there is not as much demand for them as there was in the last 5 years. There is no longer need for this many taxis and rank spaces, its simple supply and demand.

The ranks were only useful on friday and saturday nights where there were people queueing for taxis. People can get a taxi anywhere in the city at any time now, ranks are not needed.



Yeah, and now i'm going to tell people about it, and hopefully they will tell other people.

Taxi drivers are well aware of the reduced demand for their service.

If its about supply and demand then there should be alot more rank spaces because demand vastly outstrips supply.

Your comments mean you either have an axe to grind with taxis or you just have no concept of planning or transport. Either way, I have tried to explain it to you, but since you dont want to listen I will take no further part in this conversation.

HotSwap

Victor wrote: »

Not really, there is still a problem in suburban areas where there aren't enough ranks or taxis cruising. It would be useful for every (meaningful) crossroads to have a small rank instead of every taxi in the city cruising from Camden Street to O'Connell Bridge and back.

There is a taxi rank at Crumlin Childerns Hospital near to where I live. There are NEVER any taxis at this rank, this is probably because taxi drivers think they would be waiting too long at the rank because of its low demand, and because they think that the best fair they will get it into town 8 - 9 euro.

I think this is a good idea, but I don't think there is any point because they will all be empty.

Hamndegger wrote:

All this bitterness and malcontent over the loss of 5 parking space that you use for about 20 minute a month for a mug of coffee. You were not concerned enough about the loss of spaces for bus lanes, Dublin bikes, loading bays, bus stops etc etc but for the few minutes you want it, it's a disgrace that warrants a campaign that doesn't address those who made the change.

You really are a petulant trolling NIMBY.

Bus Lanes = Good Idea (And you can park and drive in them after 19:00)
Dublin Bikes = Great Idea (Most of these are not on the road, and the ones that are are taking up < 2 parking spots)
Loading Bays = Needed to keep the city running (and you can park in them after 19:00)
Bus Stops = These are all fairly well established

I really don't think you should resort to personal attacks, I have been civil at all times and I would appreciate the same from you.

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

There is a taxi rank at Crumlin Childerns Hospital near to where I live. There are NEVER any taxis at this rank

Funnily enough, I pass this rank several times a week and there is always cars at it daytime and most evenings. I'd love to find a rank that is always empty daytime and busy, so too would the other 13,000+ taxis in Dublin

HotSwap wrote: »

I really don't think you should resort to personal attacks, I have been civil at all times and I would appreciate the same from you.

You may call it an attack but your whole issue here is based on your want to access a parking space for a few minutes a month when you have literally thousands of other parking spaces to hand and sod those who this move benefits; that's exactly what I mean by you being a trolling NIMBY.

HotSwap

Hamndegger wrote: »

You may call it an attack but your whole issue here is based on your want to access a parking space for a few minutes a month when you have literally thousands of other parking spaces to hand and sod those who this move benefits; that's exactly what I mean by you being a trolling NIMBY.

I'm not the only person that parked in these spaces, and clearly there are other people that are annoyed about this issue.

Whatever your reason, it was not necessary.

HotSwap

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Taxi drivers are well aware of the reduced demand for their service.

If its about supply and demand then there should be alot more rank spaces because demand vastly outstrips supply.

Your comments mean you either have an axe to grind with taxis or you just have no concept of planning or transport. Either way, I have tried to explain it to you, but since you dont want to listen I will take no further part in this conversation.

Thanks for your input.

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

I'm not the only person that parked in these spaces, and clearly there are other people that are annoyed about this issue.

Sure there is...

HotSwap wrote: »

Whatever your reason, it was not necessary.

:cool:

dereko1969

Hamndegger wrote: »

Like Vicar Street. Like Nassau Street. Like Harcourt and Camden Street. Like the O2 etc etc

Vicar Street is in bad need of a taxi rank, It would make life so much easier for everyone and would stop the Garda's ridiculous crusade against taxi drivers slowing down going past it.

HotSwap

Hamndegger wrote: »

Funnily enough, I pass this rank several times a week and there is always cars at it daytime and most evenings. I'd love to find a rank that is always empty daytime and busy, so too would the other 13,000+ taxis in Dublin

First of all, we are not talking about during the day time. I was out for a drive around town this evening to have a look at some of the ranks, here are my findings:

• Crumlin Children's Hospital: Empty
• Crumlin Shopping Center: Empty
• South Quays West: 5 Taxis Queueing at the back of the rank
• Westin Hotel: Empty
• Stephens Green (Hotel): Empty
• Parnnell Street (Bennys Burger): Empty
• O'Connell Street (Side of Pennys): Empty
• North Quays West: 1 Taxi (No Driver)
• D'olier Street: Empty
• North Quays East: Empty
• St Andrews Street: 2 Parked cars
• Foster Place South: 50% Full, none of the new spaces in use

To me it seems that the problem is not that there are not enough rank spaces, but that there are not enough ranks in PRIME locations. All the drivers want to be in the Dame Street of O'Connell Street rank. The ones above are ignored.

I think this should be a case of use it or loose it, and these ranks, for sunday evening at least, are not needed and should be changed into disk parking.

I did not get any pictures this evening, but I will check back for the rest of the week to see how much demand there is for these ranks on other evenings.

Ham'nd'egger

HotSwap wrote: »

First of all, we are not talking about during the day time. I was out for a drive around town this evening to have a look at some of the ranks, here are my findings:

• Crumlin Children's Hospital: Empty
• Crumlin Shopping Center: Empty
• South Quays West: 5 Taxis Queueing at the back of the rank
• Westin Hotel: Empty
• Stephens Green (Hotel): Empty
• Parnnell Street (Bennys Burger): Empty
• O'Connell Street (Side of Pennys): Empty
• North Quays West: 1 Taxi (No Driver)
• D'olier Street: Empty
• North Quays East: Empty
• St Andrews Street: 2 Parked cars
• Foster Place South: 50% Full, none of the new spaces in use

To me it seems that the problem is not that there are not enough rank spaces, but that there are not enough ranks in PRIME locations. All the drivers want to be in the Dame Street of O'Connell Street rank. The ones above are ignored.

I think this should be a case of use it or loose it, and these ranks, for sunday evening at least, are not needed and should be changed into disk parking.

I did not get any pictures this evening, but I will check back for the rest of the week to see how much demand there is for these ranks on other evenings.

Oh yes, damning and conclusive evidence on a Sunday night to win back 5 parking spaces for your occasional caffeine buzzes from an impartial and reliable source :rolleyes:

HotSwap

Hamndegger wrote: »

Oh yes, damning and conclusive evidence on a Sunday night to win back 5 parking spaces for your occasional caffeine buzzes from an impartial and reliable source :rolleyes:

I only said they should be changed back for Sundays so far. We will see what happens on other nights of the week. I am not being unreasonable, I am looking at the evidence that I see.

And please, going for a coffee was only one example, other people use them for different reasons, if thats all you can say to counter my arguments there is not much point in posting.

And I'm going to post photos tomorrow, don't worry.

Victor

HotSwap wrote: »

I think this should be a case of use it or loose it, and these ranks, for sunday evening at least, are not needed and should be changed into disk parking.

Oh come on. I was out earlier and there is about 5cm of snow and slush everywhere and it had started raining. The area was utterly deserted as people thought better than to go out in this weather.

HotSwap

Victor wrote: »

Oh come on. I was out earlier and there is about 5cm of snow and slush everywhere and it had started raining. The area was utterly deserted as people thought better than to go out in this weather.

Thats why i'm going to check every evening this week.

Spook_ie

You'd do far better checking over a 2-3 month period

Jan is notoriously slow in the biz. Also it is ****e weather
Feb Slow until 14th then might get a busy weekend for chinese NY/VN combined
Mar Nothing much til 17th.

So give us a 100 photo dossier taken at the same time each night and we'll believe yah and I don't mean 4.30/5.00 am either when everyone ( including the taxidrivers ) have gone home

dolliemix

Not sure if this has been mentioned already. I've only read the first page. It's too late to read all seven pages.

You can park at Fitzwilliam Square / Merrion Square/ Stephens Green after seven for free and use Dublin Bike to get you from a to b

HotSwap

dolliemix wrote: »

Not sure if this has been mentioned already. I've only read the first page. It's too late to read all seven pages.

You can park at Fitzwilliam Square / Merrion Square/ Stephens Green after seven for free and use Dublin Bike to get you from a to b

There were limited spaces in all these places this evening. But yeah, its a good plan if there is parking available. Thanks dolliemix.

Spook_ie wrote:

So give us a 100 photo dossier taken at the same time each night and we'll believe yah and I don't mean 4.30/5.00 am either when everyone ( including the taxidrivers ) have gone home

I'll see what I can do. That sure will be good for when I show up at the review in DCC.

I feel some delegation will be warranted - rankwatch.com perhaps.

Terrontress

I am very familiar with the Foster Place rank that the OP talks of. It could hardly even be called a rank. It's just somewhere for drivers to sit before going on to the rank. They have a system of flashing their headlights to let people know who is next to move on to the rank.

I can understand the extension of actual taxi ranks to accomodate more cars but with Foster Place it's just parking spots near to ranks. And having six more places, not on a rank, is not going to do all those taxis any good.

I reckon they should leave Foster's place as open parking. If the taxis wish to go in and flash their lights then they can. If someone wishes to use it to go to a gig or use a local business then fine. Putting on a restriction is counter-productive.