Women in shackles whilst giving birth!

Esmeralda34

Has anyone seen BBC News tonight? Perhaps many of you are already familiar with this, but I certainly was not.

Female prisoners in America are shackled whilst giving birth!! Is that not appalling? I am so shocked that in this day and age women are shackled during labour. It's like a terrible sinister tale from the dark ages...

On top of that America has less than 5% of the world's population yet has a quarter of the world's prisoners!!

Perhaps I need to go to bed!

I just really cannot fathom how it can be justified to keep a lady prisoner shackled in the throes of labour. Where do they think she's going to run to?!

Tristram

They are prisoners, they don't share the same rights as citizens.

Tristram

The kid should have rights if it aint illegal

old_aussie

Esmeralda34 wrote: »

Female prisoners in America are shackled whilst giving birth!! Is that not appalling? I am so shocked that in this day and age women are shackled during labour. It's like a terrible sinister tale from the dark ages...

I just really cannot fathom how it can be justified to keep a lady prisoner shackled in the throes of labour. Where do they think she's going to run to?!

Because some of them criminal bitches KILL their baby, and more people than you get upset because they KILLED their own baby at birth.

That's why they are shackled.

OR would you prefer they kill their own baby and then we do something about it?

Hey, the horse has bolted, better shut the gate now.

Justsaying

lady prisoner ??

callig

The NYT has the story of one victim of this practice

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/opinion/14wed3.html?_r=1

Alcatel

On the one hand we say it's terrible when it's a female prisoner.

On the other hand, I recently pointed out the case of the Irish priest in Florida who stole a few million from the parish - when RTE interviewed him he was in an orange jumpsuit, shackled at hands and legs, with an armed guard standing behind him. I suggested too that we ought to treat, for example, corrupt politicians and bankers, indeed, most criminals I would say, the same way.

The idea was applauded.

Nodin

Esmeralda34 wrote: »

Has anyone seen BBC News tonight? Perhaps many of you are already familiar with this, but I certainly was not.

Female prisoners in America are shackled whilst giving birth!! Is that not appalling? I am so shocked that in this day and age women are shackled during labour. It's like a terrible sinister tale from the dark ages...

On top of that America has less than 5% of the world's population yet has a quarter of the world's prisoners!!

Perhaps I need to go to bed!

I just really cannot fathom how it can be justified to keep a lady prisoner shackled in the throes of labour. Where do they think she's going to run to?!

In all honesty, it must have been a slow news day as thats nothing new.

Rather unfortunately there'd many all for it over here, regardless of the fact is doesn't seem to work as any form of deterrent.

Bottle_of_Smoke

callig wrote: »

The NYT has the story of one victim of this practice

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/14/opinion/14wed3.html?_r=1

That's pretty horrific alright. Perhaps could handcuff one ankle to something and have an armed guard in the room or something

Voipjunkie

Esmeralda34 wrote: »

Has anyone seen BBC News tonight? Perhaps many of you are already familiar with this, but I certainly was not.

Female prisoners in America are shackled whilst giving birth!! Is that not appalling? I am so shocked that in this day and age women are shackled during labour. It's like a terrible sinister tale from the dark ages...

On top of that America has less than 5% of the world's population yet has a quarter of the world's prisoners!!

Perhaps I need to go to bed!

I just really cannot fathom how it can be justified to keep a lady prisoner shackled in the throes of labour. Where do they think she's going to run to?!

I would imagine it would depend on the level of danger that the woman is seen to pose to medical staff etc.
If she is in prison for not paying a fine that would be different from someone who had committed a number of murders for example. If I was a doctor or nurse and dealing with someone who had stabbed someone to death in an unprovoked attack I think i would like to see shackles when she was in the same room as sharp medical instruments.

Tristram

Tristram wrote: »

They are prisoners, they don't share the same rights as citizens.

In the case of the lady in the New York Times article, it caused her a significantly increased amount of pain and stress. This can cause the baby to get into distress and could result in death.

The babies are innocent and their health should not be compromised.

nesf

If the woman is very violent and a danger to staff at the birth then it's pretty reasonable for them to be shackled unfortunately.

FTA69

What's she going to do like? Pull a legger in the middle of a prison hospital half way through child-birth for f*ck's sake?

The kid should have rights if it aint illegal

It? Nice bit of compassion there kid.

97i9y3941

if you have nat geo channel and watch the america's hardest prison series you woundnt be surprised with all this,i have to admire the american system,they treat the prisons like factories,more people arrive and they take them in regardless,no matter the crime what ever you sentenced for thats it,as for women given birth,san francisco has the same rules,women regardless if they are pregnant or not are sentenced there is no hold up in sentenceing...

carolmon

nesf wrote: »

If the woman is very violent and a danger to staff at the birth then it's pretty reasonable for them to be shackled unfortunately.

Do you really think it's reasonable for a woman to have her legs shackled together whilst giving birth?

If it was a safety issue there are other ways to restrain a person, handcuffs etc.

nesf

carolmon wrote: »

Do you really think it's reasonable for a woman to have her legs shackled together whilst giving birth?

They are shacked separately to the side of the bed according to the NYT article, not shackled together.

carolmon

nesf wrote: »

They are shacked separately to the side of the bed according to the NYT article, not shackled together.

Whether together or to separate sides of the bed it's completely inhumane and unnecessary, if she had to be restrained (which I don't believe) why not by the hands?

Strikes me as state torture, and i don't throw that term out loosely or to get a rise, it's just my natural reaction as a woman who has experienced childbirth, it's strikes horror into me and I'm sure it was also traumatic for the medical staff.

nesf

carolmon wrote: »

Whether together or to separate sides of the bed it's completely inhumane and unnecessary, if she had to be restrained (which I don't believe) why not by the hands?

In the woman from the NYT's case, as a non-violent offender, I find it hard to believe she needed to be shackled down but if you believe in general that all women in prison wouldn't need to be restrained then you really don't appreciate just how violent and dangerous some inmates can be.

carolmon

nesf wrote: »

In the woman from the NYT's case, as a non-violent offender, I find it hard to believe she needed to be shackled down but if you believe in general that all women in prison wouldn't need to be restrained then you really don't appreciate just how violent and dangerous some inmates can be.

Did you even read my post?
I said if it was deigned that they needed to be restrained then why not by the wrists?

It's vital to be able to move your legs/ pelvis during childbirth, medical opinion states that the practice of shackling a woman's legs increases the risk to mother and child.

As for restraining IMO I don't believe it's required during childbirth cos I've yet to hear of a woman making the great escape in the middle of delivering a child!

nesf

carolmon wrote: »

Did you even read my post?
I said if it was deigned that they needed to be restrained then why not by the wrists?

Because leaving the legs free would give them the ability to kick at the healthcare staff. There are women out there who are messed up enough to actually do something like this during childbirth and it is utterly unreasonable to expect heathcare staff to be put in a position where they could be injured in these situations. They have a right to be protected from the prisoner.

guppy

In the US the stirrups are very normal, even for non-prisoners. It's probably not even seen as something odd.

guppy

guppy wrote: »

In the US the stirrups are very normal, even for non-prisoners. It's probably not even seen as something odd.

Stirrups are not shackles? I'm sorry, but what on earth are you talking about?

If there are women that are so dangerous that they can't be allowed to be unshackled during childbirth, why don't they deliver the babies by Cesarean Section?

Like Carolmon I too have gone through childbirth and this practice really makes me feel physically sick. And I agree, I would consider it torture.

Hillel

nesf wrote: »

They are shacked separately to the side of the bed according to the NYT article, not shackled together.

Well, that's all right then. :mad:

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

, why don't they deliver the babies by Cesarean Section?
.

Force operations on preganant women eh? Well thats fair.........



Did these women think of their babies when doing whatever they did to get locked up?

Prisoners of both sexes are far too protected and mollycoddled in western society.

nesf

Hillel wrote: »

Well, that's all right then. :mad:

Well, if you consider the options when giving birth legs spread is a whole lot better than ankles tied together which was my point. I wasn't condoning it or anything in that woman's case only pointing out the reality of the report.

Rev. BlueJeans

Indeed, having witnessed a couple myself, as have many of you I'm sure, legs shackled together would be a sheer impossibility.

The welfare of the staff and the child is utmost, and as such any and all precautions should be taken.