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frozen water pipes

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2

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    #32
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The temp last night was -8 to -10 and the ground is generally frozen down about 200mm to 400mm in Galway now depending on whether the sun ever gets to it or not. The ground will start to thaw slowly from tuesday.

    The Irish building standards:( apparently only specify a depth of 300mm for water pipes which is 9 or 10 inches.

    Like I said, Woodies and B and Q have long hoses on reels 30m 40m or even 60m. Pool together to buy a long neighbourhood hose of 50m or 60m then fill up yeer attic tanks in sequence and arrange to keep filling them up every 2 or 3 days.

    Try to do so in daylight when it is sunny and safe to leave doors and windows slightly open and not freeze the kind neighbours who are kindly supplying water. Use open windows not open doors, lots of cold rats around nowadays :( If your neighbour is being an asshole tell them you are afraid a pipe may burst and flood their house too.


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    #33
    frisket
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭frisket


    Frankie Lee wrote: »
    I have the same trouble with frozen pipes somewhere between the mains and the house. I'm pretty certain our stopcock is free so the only other place we have brass is a t-piece out the back of the house under a couple of feet of concrete. I've tried a long shot of using a kerosene heater under a turf cover to try thaw it out. Otherwise I will be up **** creek with frozen pipes eventually bursting.
    My neighbours' water was frozen yesterday but mine wasn't, so I lent them a hose from my outside tap to fill their cold tank. Today I also have no water, so we've been tracing things back, trying to unfreeze the stopcock at the end of the drive with a blowtorch, to no effect. These are 60s houses in an estate in Cork city, so the mains from the stockcock to the house is likely deep.

    We also tried the flamethrower on the outside tap, to see if the heat would conduct back up the pipes to the inside stopcock in the kitchen, but that turned out to be pointless, as most of the pipework under the sink is new, and is all plastic. But the outside tap did do a lot of hissing and gurgling, and gave some steam, so maybe a little heat was travelling back up the column of ice in the pipes. I now have a fan heater under the sink in the kitchen to warm the whole thing and see if that has any effect. The pipework in the house seems to be unfrozen, so presumably if the main has frozen, there would still have been enough air or water expansion space up the pipework to prevent any bursts.

    Oh, and best wishes with the baby, Kitty :-)


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    #34
    RedLedbetter
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭RedLedbetter


    It looks like ours is frozen at the stopcock, but I cannot remove the WSC-R cover (see the round WSC-R cover on the left of http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/ORBITAL_DuctileIron_01.pdf). I can turn the keyhole 45 degrees, but although the cover shifts it will not come off altogether?

    Anybody any ideas? Major help!!!!


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    #35
    biffoman
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭biffoman


    RedLedbetter wrote: »
    It looks like ours is frozen at the stopcock, but I cannot remove the WSC-R cover (see the round WSC-R cover on the left of http://www.iplgroup.ie/assets/miscmedia/ORBITAL_DuctileIron_01.pdf). I can turn the keyhole 45 degrees, but although the cover shifts it will not come off altogether?

    Anybody any ideas? Major help!!!!
    i poured boiling water over mine.seemed to work for me.


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    #36
    manas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭manas


    Hi all,


    I have been having the same problem with frozen pipes since last Monday. We had called in a few plumbers and they said that there wasnt a whole lot we could have been doing, apart from pouring hot water on the main pipe gauge and top up the water level inside the house to keep the radiator and the hot water running.
    when is this weather going to improve
    M


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    #37
    frisket
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭frisket


    manas wrote: »
    when is this weather going to improve/QUOTE]
    Not for a week at least. Then a thaw, and back to freezing at the end of the first week of Feb for a few more days.


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    #38
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    Frozen water pipe means that someone made a s**y work building a house. Don't blame the weather.


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    #39
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Frozen water pipe means that someone made a s**y work building a house. Don't blame the weather.

    in some cases, yes.

    But not all, Irish building reg's don't cover down to -12 to -15 which is what we were getting there last week at night.


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    #40
    DD67
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭DD67


    biffoman wrote: »
    im gona fill my tank up from next doors tap.it means running a hose up to the attic.it should get us by for a few days and hopefully it will warm up a bit between now and then.fingers crossed.
    just saw what you posted.

    You don`t necessarily have to run the hose up to your attic if you have an outside tap connect the hose from your neighbours to your tap you also need to turn of the mains at your stop cock.

    Turn on your neighbours tap and the water will force its way up into your tank via your outside tap, save you from messing about with running hoses through your house.

    But if your pipes are frozen in your house it might not get through but it would help get things thaw out your pipes.


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    #41
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    DD67 wrote: »
    You don`t necessarily have to run the hose up to your attic if you have an outside tap connect the hose from your neighbours to your tap you also need to turn of the mains at your stop cock.

    Turn on your neighbours tap and the water will force its way up into your tank via your outside tap, save you from messing about with running hoses through your house.

    But if your pipes are frozen in your house it might not get through but it would help get things thaw out your pipes.

    PLEASE - don't do this.
    If you have ruptured pipes due to the freezing, you will have a major leak on your hands.:eek:


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    #42
    chizzle82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭chizzle82


    I have water in the cold tap in the kitchen but nothing in the hot tap or both taps upstairs in the bathroom.
    I thought if my water was frozen the cold tap would freeze first?
    Am a bit confused!


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    #43
    RedLedbetter
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭RedLedbetter


    I called up the company that manufacture the lids for the meter box (WSC-R) and they say just to keep trying as it's probably jammed! Great! Poured boiling water over, hit it a few smacks of a hammer to loosen..... nothing. Still just turns a bit but no lift.

    This morning however our outside tap is working - but should your outside tap run off the mains directly or off the tank also?


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    #44
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    off the mains.


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    #45
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    chizzle82 wrote: »
    I have water in the cold tap in the kitchen but nothing in the hot tap or both taps upstairs in the bathroom.
    I thought if my water was frozen the cold tap would freeze first?
    Am a bit confused!

    that would be because the pipe feed to your cold tap in the kitchen come direct from the mains feed to the house (whereever it enters your property) and the rest of the taps may come fro the attic which could be frozen.


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    #46
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    So it's pretty much thawed here at ground level and still no mains water. Is there any chance the pipe's still frozen or is it definitely burst? Any telltale signs of a burst pipe? Hoping to get a plumber tomorrow.

    If it's a mains leak on our property will the council want to know?


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    #47
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    It'll still be frozen as the ground underneath the surface will still be frozen for a few days probably. Try digging a hole in the garden and see.


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    #48
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    We gave a dig of about a foot to the flower bed that the pipe runs under and it was grand.


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    #49
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    If it's a mains leak on our property will the council want to know?

    No.


    Re; get a plumber - when he comes out and surveys the issue, ask him for a price to fix it first before he sets to work.
    That way he'll not charge you what he likes once the job is done.;)
    They are CLEANING up @ present.


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    #50
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Yeah, it'll be up to our landlord to pay so I'll pass him on your advice. I'm sure he knows a plumber who owes him a favour IYKWIM!

    It's funny in an estate of 20 houses only two of us have been affected and we were both here all through the cold snap and using our supply, both went last Wednesday.


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    #51
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Ye have shallow pipes, if sub 450mm ( the Homebond depth) at any point then tell the developer to come back and ensure they are the right depth or you will see them in court for the considerable cost of fixing it.


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    #52
    niceirishfella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,538 ✭✭✭niceirishfella


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    tell the developer to come back

    like they will care? Even if they are still in business.


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There is a small river coming out of Wellpark onto the main road.

    Hopefully it doesn't freeze.


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    #54
    frisket
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭frisket


    chizzle82 wrote: »
    I have water in the cold tap in the kitchen but nothing in the hot tap or both taps upstairs in the bathroom.
    I thought if my water was frozen the cold tap would freeze first?
    Am a bit confused!

    I was under the impression that the law requires that the kitchen cold tap (ONLY) is always connected directly to the incoming main and does *NOT* go through the cold tank. Therefore if you have cold water running from your kitchen tap, it's not the water main that's frozen, it's your pipework in the house, most likely in the attic where the tank it. This is much easier to fix: just heat your house and attic more.

    It's nothing to do with cold taps freezing before hot taps: it's to do with whichever tap (only ever one, AFAIK) that is connected directly to the main, which I believe is the kitchen cold tap -- but I may be wrong on this: ask a plumber. If the water main freezes, you get no cold water out of the kitchen tap (you also get no water at all out of anything else once the cold tank has been run dry). If you still have water from the kitchen cold tap, the problem is not in the water main but elsewhere in the house, or you have a very odd plumbing arrangement, or I'm out of date :-)


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    #55
    frisket
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭frisket


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    It's funny in an estate of 20 houses only two of us have been affected and we were both here all through the cold snap and using our supply, both went last Wednesday.
    My neighbour reckoned that the first people to freeze were those whose driveways had been renewed/resurfaced/gravelled/paved/tarmac'd in the Time of Plenty, because that disturbed the ground, made it more porous, so water was able to seep in and freeze. Those of us in 60s estates with crappy 60s concrete drives untouched for 40 years have ground underneath like iron, and probably bone dry. Eventually, of course, everyone froze, but the newer driveways were the first to go and the last to unfreeze.

    Pure speculation, but based on observation, he reckons.


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    #56
    WooPeeA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭WooPeeA


    niceirishfella wrote: »
    in some cases, yes.

    But not all, Irish building reg's don't cover down to -12 to -15 which is what we were getting there last week at night.
    Yes but there's a rule that says that you never install any water pipe less then 2 ft underground. Otherwise the pipe might get frozen even with -1 outside which happens nearly every winter to someone...


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    #57
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    WooPeeA wrote: »
    Yes but there's a rule that says that you never install any water pipe less then 2 ft underground.

    2 foot ( 600mm) is common sense but is it really an actual rule or published building regulation ?? I was looking at a house today where the top of the stopcock was within 2mm of the hatch. The body of the stopcock ( and the pipe) is no more than 100mm down. The pipe is at 130mm down within 18 inches of the outside wall just beside the path.

    They have homebond and intend claiming off it if the builder does not fix the whole thing straight away. They also intend to set the council enforcement section on the builder .


    Homebond specifies 450mm deep at the outer wall of a house and a synthesised document ( composite of practice from regulations and laws etc ) HERE also specifies 450mm for the underground section outside the house.

    Service pipes and fitings
    The Water Section must approve the diameter of the service pipe in advance. The
    service pipe shall be laid without mechanical joints from the boundary box to a stop
    valve inside the house and contained within a 50mm duct along the entire length
    with 450mm minimum cover to finished ground level.


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    #58
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    frisket wrote: »
    My neighbour reckoned that the first people to freeze were those whose driveways had been renewed/resurfaced/gravelled/paved/tarmac'd in the Time of Plenty, because that disturbed the ground, made it more porous, so water was able to seep in and freeze. Those of us in 60s estates with crappy 60s concrete drives untouched for 40 years have ground underneath like iron, and probably bone dry. Eventually, of course, everyone froze, but the newer driveways were the first to go and the last to unfreeze.

    Pure speculation, but based on observation, he reckons.

    New estate here, reckon the pipe is under the front flowerbed which would be a similar situation.


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    #59
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    After the big freeze of 1963 they generally put pipes deep in the rest of 1960s


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    #60
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    2 foot ( 600mm) is common sense but is it really an actual rule or published building regulation ?? I was looking at a house today where the top of the stopcock was within 2mm of the hatch. The body of the stopcock ( and the pipe) is no more than 100mm down. The pipe is at 130mm down within 18 inches of the outside wall just beside the path.

    They have homebond and intend claiming off it if the builder does not fix the whole thing straight away. They also intend to set the council enforcement section on the builder .


    Homebond specifies 450mm deep at the outer wall of a house and a synthesised document ( composite of practice from regulations and laws etc ) HERE also specifies 450mm for the underground section outside the house.

    Same here stopcock is not at homebond level, will be telling the landlord to claim off it because I know this estate is a homebonded one


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    #61
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    Same here stopcock is not at homebond level, will be telling the landlord to claim off it because I know this estate is a homebonded one

    Write to the planning department and ask for an enforcement order against the builder too. When an estate is built 2 things happen.

    1. an engineer undertakes to ensure compliance with regulations, this is a matter of record with the planning section and ALSO the water department who have a signed copy of a connection request to the public supply.

    2. a bond is paid in in case the council has to do the work themselves aftewards.,

    If the builder will not complete step one like they should have then the council calls in the bond and does the work with the money. Galway is full of planners with absolutely feck all to do nowadays except issue enforcement proceedings against non compliant builders and calling in bonds where they do not comply.


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