Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
O2 Wireless only €950 for 3 months
Comments
-
Cheers lads for the 2 cents worth.
(yis all owe me 200 euro worth now)
Now you're charging them for giving their 2 cents worth instead of them chrging you? Yer not gonna pay your bill that way
Seriously though, some fecking bill. Any reason you went with the mobile route? Actually, looking at their site. Do you use the dongle for your phone, text etc? Cos they charge extra for that it seems:
http://www.o2online.ie/wps/wcm/myconnect/O2/More+info/O2+Clear+Broadband+Other+Charges?lbW=590&lbH=4000 -
-
-
-
Join Date:Posts: 26427
Right so let’s look at a few facts. I did sign the contract and they’re sticking to it perfectly. But here’s the real problem...
8 bits to a byte, 1024 bytes to a kB, (I can actually count in binary but let’s keep it simple), 1000000 bytes in a megabyte. How many bytes in a Gb anyone?
Why are you even getting into kb?
O2 clearly charge 2c per MB not kb1000000000 bytes in a gigabyte therefore 10Gb is 10000000000. So if you want to find out how much more you are charged for every Gb over you are you have to multiply 1000000 by .02 and then multiply the answer by 10000.
1024MB in a GB for a start
So 1MB is charged at 0.02c = 20.48c per GBNow if I start off with 10GB = €19.99 then how much will 1 Mb cost me? I just don’t even have to try I can see the 10 from 10GB and I can see the 20 from €19.99 so I know there’s a 2 or a .2 or a .02 in the answer.
1MB is 0.02c
The 10GB cap was part of the 19.99e package excess is charged at 0.02c,
You can't try and work out some new system to suit your needs.
Fact is 1MB is 0.02c so 1GB is 20.48cSo does anyone see the real problem here? Could anyone here realistically be bothered to tell me how much 1 mb would cost? With all them zeros it’s real easy for the decimal point to slip one place now isn’t it?! So anyone see the sucker punch coming yet?.. 2 cents for a megabyte sure isn’t that the same as €20 for 10GB?
I don't know what crazy months you use but 1GB is 20.48c,Now contract or now contract, justice is fairness. This isn’t fairplay. If a court delivers justice then there is some hope for my fight.
Honestly I think my best chance for a outcome is to start some fires like this about the place and make them want to shut me up.
Its not a con, its not illegal, its nothing dodgy.....these charges are pretty much standard among "Mobile Broadband" in Ireland
Vodafone Ireland saysA monthly data download allowance of 10 gigabytes (GB) applies. Usage in excess of 10GB per month is charged at 2c (VAT Inc.) per megabyte.
Meteor has similar information...their site is down for mainatnce at the moment though so I can't copy/past itas for the excess charges while it can be claimed they are unfair and almost criminal to ask 2cent/kb the simple answer is that these charges are not criminal(yet) and you have been advised of them at the time you signed up and also the charges are readily and easily accessible on the o2 website so you can not reasonably claim ignorance of them!
O2 do not charge 2c per kb, they charge 2c per MB
[/QUOTE]All O2 Broadband Plans have a data usage limit and a charge of 2c per MB applies for all usage in excess of the data usage limit on your plan.0 -
Advertisement
-
Join Date:Posts: 26427
What is the difference between a mobile broadband connection and a mobile phone? Personally I see them as being more or less the same.
Thats because they are, data transfers on a mobile network are more costly then that of a cable or ADSL network. A mobile network was never really meant for a replacement of cable or ADSL.With my mobile, if I exceed my minutes I pay for all additional calls. Why should this be any different for mobile broadband users?
It isn't really
I'm on Meteor Bill Pay Lite and I pay a flat fee for 60min worth of any network min and free meteor texts, I fully understand that I will incur call charges once I go outside of these free minThere is a big difference between mobile broadband and fixed line or cable broadband. The number of users online in a given area has a much greater effect for mobile broadband that it does for fixed line or cable broadband. As far as I understand the cap is designed to prevent users from monopolising the connection in a given area and affecting other users.
Thats pretty much it alright,However, on a more positive note. If you put your case to the company, and are a little more "I understand I did wrong, but I didn't realise what I was doing" I am sure you will be able to get a partial refund, maybe 50%? If you take a more aggresive approach I think you will get no where.
I'd also agree with this suggestion, I've heard many a user put their hands up and still request that the bill is excessive. In some of the cases I've heard the telecoms provider has reduced the bill.
I wouldn't recommend an overly aggressive approach to O2 in relation to this as you have to look at it this way:
- If your overly agreesive 1st off they will view all charges as valid, 2nd off they will want them paid and 3rd and most of all they know that because your agreesive and pissed off you'll likely leave O2 at the end of it all.
- If you take a less aggressive approach they will often likely reduce the charges in favor of keeping you some-what happy as a customer and thus retaining you as a customer
By reducing the bill both partys get the best of both worlds,0 -
Hi all.
Cabaal I really appreciate your determination to tear holes in my argument. It's already highlighted my failure to make myself clear on some issues. I'm thinking in the forum I'm talking more casually and leaving it open for some assumptions on your end. Time constraints and all that I can't really sit and type a legally tight document. Still though keep it coming.0.02c per MB works out at 20.48 per 1GB, NOT 20e per 10GB.
Yup when you really sit down to it that's what it works out at. However there's a clear strategy to misleading you to think otherwise.
The problem is in your case is because you'#ve been caught out you don't wish to fullfill your commitments under the T&C's.
That's yet to be determined. Someone else claimed there system is buggy. Don't worry I'll keep everyone in touch with the outcome.
O2 could not provide the Terms & Conditions in a clearer manner then this, its in plain english.Its not hidden or hard to understand.
I hugely disagree. The idea of that ridiculas math example was to show the lengths that people would have to go to to know for sure what exactly the charge is. The fact that they sell in GB but add a clause in MB is to be quite deliberately confusing, assuming people know what a GB or MB even is. Remember we're dealing with the big business sharks here of a faceless company.
A more proper approach would be something like this to begin with; The €20 monthly fee includes 10GB of transfer allowance, after that consumers are charged at the rate of €200 per 10GB transferred. Consumers are biolled at a per megabyte rate rounded to the nearest 2cent.
As I said that little discrepency of moving the decimal place is the scam.
Which I'd have to argue is a deliberate get out clause for this very purpose. Btw helpdesk Mary was very well versed about this too. Seems to be a potent tool they have there.
To be perfectly honest O2 is the very ISP I've seen in the UK or Ireland that posts a quick breakdown of its Terms & Conditions in this manner.
As I keep saying and trying to demonstrate, it's misleading to Joe Soap.You can't pick and choose parts of a Terms & Conditions, its either all or nothing and if you don't agree with the Terms then you shouldn't have accepted them.
I didn't think you could buy Granola here either but sure enough my wife turned up with a pack today and there I was thinking all this time you could only get muesli.Right you can be disappointed by my remarks all you want but class action suits DO NOT exist in Ireland so you ranting on about them means nothing
Call it what you want, a demonstration even, but a group of offended people taking an action against a company is what I'm on about. Please don't tell me I have to get out a dictionary to be clear on this point with you. Group of people in the same both going to court to argue this is not ok.
I'm really not so sure. I think you do have to be clear about your pricing. I know in a pub your price list has to be stuck to the wall. I think tagging in supermarkets is mandatory but I could be mixing up my country borders there.First of lets talk facts, O2 have done nothing illegal so saying they swindled you out of this money is misleading.Would I use O2's services, yes I would like any "Mobile Broadband" provider O2 like Meteor, Three or Vodafone reserve the right to charge for excessive usage.
On the basis that I understand this very basic fact I would use services belong to any of the above providers if I had to.
If however I used say 15GB on a 10GB package and I got charged then I only have myself to blame, I'd be annoyed with myself but I'd learn from it and move on and watch my usage in future
Right but you'd expect to pay €40 instead of €20 right? Or do you still claim that paying €120 is fair and acceptable?
I think challenging it is taking responsibility rather than ducking my head in the sand and moaning that they took my money decietfully.So rather then take personal responsibility you want to challenge it, fair enough youy are entitled to.
You have two options
- Small claims court
- Get a solicitor and got to court....good luck with this option :rolleyes:
The small claims court is an obvious choice. It costs €15 and thanks to the help of your kind self and others here to trash it out I might have a .1% chance. Depends on the definition of justice.
Don't horror stories put you off shopping somewhere? Isn't that what this forum is about? Telling other people where to avoid. Aren't you the mod here? (Just asking)Your belief that people will stay away from O2 is misguided, they most you';ll get O2 to do is perhaps reduce your bill.
Thank you, and that includes morally too. Think about people sueing the cigarette companies. Most if not all of your argument (where relevent such as not including megabytes etc) applies but still people successfully sue them for getting cancer.*if* a company is doing something wrong then consumers have every right to challenge it.
Not nearly. I know when I'm using the phone. I know what a minute of talktime is. I can keep a mental track of how much I've been yakking away on the phone. As with the ESB bill, my car, beer and so on but not with a internet connection. That is a big part of my point. How much TV did you watch last month? Now if you gave me a number for that it would be wierd. I don't have a harddrive full with movies etc. I browse the internet in the modern way. Looking at educational videos, a bit of rugby, skype. You can't (easily) track it especially over 3 PCs. The company did not act responsibly in alerting the consumer to the level of their consumption and I believe they have a duty to do so. It would happen at a restaurant "eh excuse me sir, I don't mean to bother you but your bill is already at €800 is that ok?" Is it normal for a bloke to repeatedly spend €20 for months and then rocket up to €600? They have a duty to the consumer I just haven't found it in legal terms yet.In your case however its equal to a mobile phone company charging you for phone calls you made and then you complain about it.....pointless complaint.
Hey be nice to VaPz. He comes accross as nice and well meaning ;0)VaPz really?
He's admitting to streaming rugby online this is not just browsing websites
Also O2 charge for "usage" this includes uploads and downloads so it all counts
Yes I am well aware of that. To answer that question; I used kb to highlight how deep the numbers, more in particular the zeros can get.Why are you even getting into kb?
O2 clearly charge 2c per MB not kb1024MB in a GB for a start
So 1MB is charged at 0.02c = 20.48c per GB
Yes I did prelude that by saying I wanted to keep it simple and not count in binary (0001, 0010, 0011, 0100, 0101...) so for the sake of easy practical reading I stayed clear of 1mb = 1048576 bytes and all the knock on implications and went with the more familiar simple 1000000 option.
Tedious to have to point that out now really but lesson learned.
Yes I think here you have the numbers out of context... Or I failed to make it clear that I was trying to demonstrate what assumption would be made by the consumer and how you would arrive there. I'm not sure exactly which passage you copied that from.1MB is 0.02c
The 10GB cap was part of the 19.99e package excess is charged at 0.02c,
You can't try and work out some new system to suit your needs.
Fact is 1MB is 0.02c so 1GB is 20.48c
Aye and 38Gb is €586.61. I know. And a lot more people will be shocked to find that out if we don't tell 'em. I didn't sign up for any nasty shocks.I don't know what crazy months you use but 1GB is 20.48c,
(I'm assuming typo and you mean maths)
I absolutely disagree. It definately is a slight of hand con. It's completly dodgy and sleezy underhanded behaviour. It's the natural reaction of most people to say "wtf? 900 for 3 months!". It's utterly unexpected and I'm hoping someone will point me in a clear direction, maybe consumer affairs, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal.Its not a con, its not illegal, its nothing dodgy.....these charges are pretty much standard among "Mobile Broadband" in Ireland
[/quote]
Now I'll try and clear the point of this bit up again...8 bits to a byte, 1024 bytes to a kB, (I can actually count in binary but let’s keep it simple), 1000000 bytes in a megabyte. How many bytes in a Gb anyone? 1000000000 bytes in a gigabyte therefore 10Gb is 10000000000. So if you want to find out how much more you are charged for every Gb over you are you have to multiply 1000000 by .02 and then multiply the answer by 10000.
Is this right? Could someone check this for me? I want to use it as an argument.
That's what you have to know and have to do to figure out the deal they're giving you. And that's the easy numbers version, if you like use your own (Cabaal's) version of 1024mb to a gig. Now if you can't see that as a scam then you're just trying to wind me up.
Cabaal you can't honestly tell me after seeing their initial offer of 10GB for €20 that you figured out at a glance the next 10GB would be €200. They've worked hard to keep you from noticing that by burying it in the small print and changing the pricing format.
What I've tried to demonstrate is how someone that is good at math like me and has huge experience in this field can be caught out. So what chance has a busy single mum of 3 got? Or your aunt Jamima? Or my mate the the digger truck driver that can't find the apostrophe on the keyboard?
Now you repeatedly pointing at 2 lines on the contract, and me defending it is starting to sound like a broken record don't you think?
So tell me Cabaal, if you were the judge presiding over this case how would you rule?
I guess it boils down to this.... Is €950 a fair charge for 3 months internet?
Cheers.0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
Join Date:Posts: 26427
Yup when you really sit down to it that's what it works out at. However there's a clear strategy to misleading you to think otherwise.
Its clear you can't do basic maths and logic so there's no point in me explaining in detail what 1GB is charged at, I've explained this numerous times.
Its far from misleadingThat's yet to be determined. Someone else claimed there system is buggy.
Pure speculation unless you have facts to back it up, also any such iossues would have to be proved as a cause for your case.I hugely disagree. The idea of that ridiculas math example was to show the lengths that people would have to go to to know for sure what exactly the charge is.
So using basic multiplication is considered complex maths?
2c charge per 1MB, 1024MB in 1GB.....oh yeah I can see how thats crazy complex....its up there with Stephen Hawkings type stuff :rolleyes:The fact that they sell in GB but add a clause in MB is to be quite deliberately confusing, assuming people know what a GB or MB even is. Remember we're dealing with the big business sharks here of a faceless company.
Once again Eircom, Vodafone, Perlico, UTV etc etc do the same thing and reserve the right to charge per 1MB when you go over the cap.
Its not misleading, its not anti-competitive, its not illegal, its not dodgy and Comreg will confirm this.
Anyway in your case you have already clearly shown through your work and what you used the connection for that you understand what 1MB is and what 1GB is, so yopur hardly confused.A more proper approach would be something like this to begin with; The €20 monthly fee includes 10GB of transfer allowance, after that consumers are charged at the rate of €200 per 10GB transferred. Consumers are biolled at a per megabyte rate rounded to the nearest 2cent.
Sure yeah suggest that to O2 as feedback...that however doesn't affect your specific case.As I said that little discrepency of moving the decimal place is the scam.
Which I'd have to argue is a deliberate get out clause for this very purpose. Btw helpdesk Mary was very well versed about this too. Seems to be a potent tool they have there.
Yeah sure right :rolleyes:As I keep saying and trying to demonstrate, it's misleading to Joe Soap.
Its only an issue if "Joe Soap" eg: You didn't bother to read the T&C's before hand, as with any T&C's for any service if the customer has a query regarding a section they should query this with the company.
Only an idiot signs up to a contracted financial commitment without reading its Terms.
Simple question would you sign up to a bank loan without reading its Terms?I didn't think you could buy Granola here either but sure enough my wife turned up with a pack today and there I was thinking all this time you could only get muesli.
Call it what you want, a demonstration even, but a group of offended people taking an action against a company is what I'm on about. Please don't tell me I have to get out a dictionary to be clear on this point with you. Group of people in the same both going to court to argue this is not ok.
For the last time there is no such thing as a class action suit in Ireland, you can play word games all you want and make pointless examples but there is no such thing.I'm really not so sure. I think you do have to be clear about your pricing. I know in a pub your price list has to be stuck to the wall. I think tagging in supermarkets is mandatory but I could be mixing up my country borders there.
How is o2 not clear?
- Its on their website
- Its in there T&C's
- Its in their shops
- They pretty sure they provide you with written details with your package upon sign-up
What do you want them to do visit your house and read it to you?Right but you'd expect to pay €40 instead of €20 right? Or do you still claim that paying €120 is fair and acceptable?
Not even sure what stuff your ranting on about hereI think challenging it is taking responsibility rather than ducking my head in the sand and moaning that they took my money decietfully.
The small claims court is an obvious choice. It costs €15 and thanks to the help of your kind self and others here to trash it out I might have a .1% chance. Depends on the definition of justice.
Your dodgying your commitments under the T&C's,
So if the ESB bill you for 200e which is a legit charge you thinking challenging it is taking responsibility?Don't horror stories put you off shopping somewhere? Isn't that what this forum is about? Telling other people where to avoid. Aren't you the mod here? (Just asking)
Legit horror stories yes
Stories twisted due to the extremely poor understanding of the poster do not and that is clear from this thread.
I'm not a mod of this forum.Thank you, and that includes morally too. Think about people sueing the cigarette companies. Most if not all of your argument (where relevent such as not including megabytes etc) applies but still people successfully sue them for getting cancer.
Ok lets make more non-sensible rants, you've just insulted anyone who's got lung cancer from smoking by comparing it to an ISP charging for a legit service...wow.
:rolleyes:Not nearly. I know when I'm using the phone. I know what a minute of talktime is. I can keep a mental track of how much I've been yakking away on the phone.
You can do the same with data transfers, lots of apps and tools that allow you to do this. In addition if your downloading a 1GB file you know for a fact your downloading this much data.
Ignorance is not a legit legal defenseYes I think here you have the numbers out of context... Or I failed to make it clear that I was trying to demonstrate what assumption would be made by the consumer and how you would arrive there. I'm not sure exactly which passage you copied that from.
An incorrect assumption regarding the charges could only be made if the customer can not do maths, thats the only way they could come to the conclusion that 10GB is 20eI absolutely disagree. It definately is a slight of hand con. It's completly dodgy and sleezy underhanded behaviour. It's the natural reaction of most people to say "wtf? 900 for 3 months!". It's utterly unexpected and I'm hoping someone will point me in a clear direction, maybe consumer affairs, but I'm pretty sure it's illegal.
Until you prove anything as fact its not illegal, saying it is at this stage is nonsense and very foolish and certainly doesn't help your case.That's what you have to know and have to do to figure out the deal they're giving you. And that's the easy numbers version, if you like use your own (Cabaal's) version of 1024mb to a gig. Now if you can't see that as a scam then you're just trying to wind me up.
Its not a scam, its O2 charging for a service they provided.
Its not different to O2 charging 20c per min if you call from one of their mobiles.Cabaal you can't honestly tell me after seeing their initial offer of 10GB for €20 that you figured out at a glance the next 10GB would be €200. They've worked hard to keep you from noticing that by burying it in the small print and changing the pricing format.
They make this information extremely clear, its certain not "hidden", I've already clearly shown you how easy you can access it.
If you believe that the next 10GB is another 20e then your extremely foolish for assuming such a thingWhat I've tried to demonstrate is how someone that is good at math like me and has huge experience in this field can be caught out.
This is misleading and you know it,
You started this thread saying what experience you have doing websites and photos, then you tried to play the fool saying you didn't know what 1MB was. Then you got caught out.Now you repeatedly pointing at 2 lines on the contract, and me defending it is starting to sound like a broken record don't you think?
You pretending to play the fool is also getting tiring.So tell me Cabaal, if you were the judge presiding over this case how would you rule?
Depending on your attitude I'd either look for you to pay the whole thing or perhaps 50/60% of it. They are valid charges after all.
At the end of the day if you didn't like the pricing structure you should have never used the service.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement