Only cold tap in kitchen working

sarachryan

Sorry if this is answered in other threads. I have looked though them and I am completely lost and getting panicky.
I am in Dublin on mains water and this morning all water in the house went apart from cold tap in kitchen. I have no ladder to get up into the attic and so I don't know what is happening with the tank up there.
I rang a few plumbers and they were very nice but said that there is nothing they can do. Have to wait for the thaw.

Is it safe to keep the gas heating on? And can I put on the washing machine?
Also is there something else I could do?

Pete67

It's likely that the tank or pipes in the attic have frozen. You can keep the gas heating on unless it is leaking and requires regular topping up. It's quite safe as the boiler will shut down to protect itself if the water level gets low.

You can run the washing machine, if it is filled from the mains water it will be fine, if filled from the tank in the attic it just will not proceed through its program normally.

One thing you can do is leave the hatch to the attic open slightly, this will allow some heat from the house to get into the attic and thaw the frozen pipes.

It would be worth locating the mains water isolating valve, it's usually a brass valve under the kitchen sink, just in case there is a leak in the attic when the pipes thaw out. You can turn off the water then and prevent water damage to the house. Don't leave the house unattended when you are trying to thaw the pipes in the attic.

Best of luck.

milltown

Similar here. Hot water everywhere in the house bar the kitchen tap. I also just noticed that the radiator in the kitchen is stone cold. That's the only rad not working. I'm guessing that although it's very close to the boiler it may actually be the furthest one in terms of the plumbing. I've bled it, no air in it. I've cracked open the pipes either end with a spanner and there's water there.

My understanding of central heating could be way off but if there was a block/freeze in the flow or return pipe, wouldn't it stop the rest of the rads heating too?

Heading up to the attic now to check my water tank. Anything else I should be looking at/for? Anything linking the two problems, or does it all just point to one or more frozen pipes?

I'm in Lucan btw. Wondering if there's any common geography at play here, i.e. the reduced water pressure in Lucan, Blanch etc.

sarachryan

Thanks a million Pete.

I thought I had identified the mains lever or whatever it's called and it was the gas.
I have looked everywhere. It isn't under the sink where you would think it would be.

I suppose I will have to get a plumber out to find it.

Is it a given that there'll be a leak if the pipes are frozen?

Pete67

Have another look under the sink - the mains valve should be there but it may actually be behind the back of the kitchen unit - between it and the wall. The kitchen installer usually drills a 3 inch hole in the back of the kitchen press to allow access to it.

If it's not under the sink it could be anywhere really, try utility room, garage etc, even in the hot press. You will know when you find it as the cold tap at the kitchen sink will not work when you close it.

sarachryan

I've looked and looked. There's nothing that you could even turn. I don't know what it looks like but even still there's nothing to turn.
I am so sorry for wasting your time with what must be a very basic question.

sfakiaman

sarachryan wrote: »

Sorry if this is answered in other threads. I have looked though them and I am completely lost and getting panicky.
I am in Dublin on mains water and this morning all water in the house went apart from cold tap in kitchen. I have no ladder to get up into the attic and so I don't know what is happening with the tank up there.
I rang a few plumbers and they were very nice but said that there is nothing they can do. Have to wait for the thaw.

Is it safe to keep the gas heating on? And can I put on the washing machine?
Also is there something else I could do?

The kitchen cold tap is normally connected to the mains water supply so you probably have a frozen pipe between the kitchen and the attic or the ballcock in the tank is frozen. Just because a pipe is frozen it doesn't mean it will burst but you should find where the stopcocks are before the thaw just in case. The water for the heating system is on a closed circuit except on very old systems so keeping the heat on should be no problem. If the washing machine is fed from the same pipe as the kitchen cold tap you should be able to use it, if not sure then don't. Just a point about the hot tank, if there is no hot water in the taps it doesn't mean there is no water in the tank. The hot outlet is at the top of the tank and needs flow from the cold tank in the attic to push it out. The hot water from the boiler passes through the hot tank in a coil without mixing with the domestic hot supply. Hope this helps

Pete67

It should look something like this, often fitted in a black plastic pipe:

sarachryan

You're very decent Pete to go to the trouble to post that pic. There's definitely nothing like that under the sink or under the stairs but I'll keep looking around. I wouldn't put it past the builder to have put it in behind some press or something.

sarachryan

sfakiaman wrote: »

The kitchen cold tap is normally connected to the mains water supply so you probably have a frozen pipe between the kitchen and the attic or the ballcock in the tank is frozen. Just because a pipe is frozen it doesn't mean it will burst but you should find where the stopcocks are before the thaw just in case. The water for the heating system is on a closed circuit except on very old systems so keeping the heat on should be no problem. If the washing machine is fed from the same pipe as the kitchen cold tap you should be able to use it, if not sure then don't. Just a point about the hot tank, if there is no hot water in the taps it doesn't mean there is no water in the tank. The hot outlet is at the top of the tank and needs flow from the cold tank in the attic to push it out. The hot water from the boiler passes through the hot tank in a coil without mixing with the domestic hot supply. Hope this helps

Thanks a mill Sfakiaman. I probably need to find a way to get up into the attic

manster

Same here. No hot water from kitchen sink. On the other side of the wall is the outside tap and no water from that either. Washing machine also not filling. Rads are only luke warm but it's been that case all week.

Opened the attic door to leave hot air in. Not sure what else to do

sarachryan

Did a full check. Looked everywhere for something looking like the pic Pete posted. Nothing under the sink. nothing under the stairs.
Is there any other likely place?
Would it be in the hotpress i.e. where the hot tank is?

I'm v worried that if I can't turn it off the pipes are more likely to burst.
This is desperate. I know people have it worse though.

suitseir

Can this tap also have a red "wheel" under the sink?

Pete67 wrote: »

Have another look under the sink - the mains valve should be there but it may actually be behind the back of the kitchen unit - between it and the wall. The kitchen installer usually drills a 3 inch hole in the back of the kitchen press to allow access to it.

If it's not under the sink it could be anywhere really, try utility room, garage etc, even in the hot press. You will know when you find it as the cold tap at the kitchen sink will not work when you close it.

strombone

yes, suitseir, it can be a red and shaped like a wheel. Turn it off (i.e. stop the flow of water into the house from the mains) and the kitchen sink cold tap won't run.

I'm not a plumber by the way, and have no real knowledge of how it all works, but I've been through this in the past.

FWIW, the type of tap/valve whatever shown in the pic posted above is a better quality (more durable) version of the red wheel. When we had our problem with our connection, the plumber who fixed it advised 'upgrading' our "red wheel"to the type as posted in the pic above.

Sarach - I don't know how many people who get frozen pipes within their house necessarily get a leak afterwards, but I know for sure it's not all. Since your kictchen tap is still running, it's connected to the mains, so, to find your connection point try to trace or map out which direction the cold pipe under your kitchen sink might run along on its way to an external wall, since at some point it hooks up with the mains coming in from outside. hope this helps. also, you don't necessarily need a ladder to get up into an attic - a high stable chair/table and you can push up the door and lift yourself/clamber in. Bring a torch - have someone else there to keep your chair/table stable and to help push you up and hand you up the torch. Do it during daytime as it'll be very dark up there if there's no electric light up there.

Pete67

The 'red wheel' valve is a gate valve, fine for general purpose isolation, but they tend not to seal completely when closed, and are not as durable as the type shown above, which is known as a stopcock. It provides a watertight seal under mains water pressure, and is also less likely to sieze up over time. For that reason they are the preferred option for mains water isolation.

If it cannot be found, you should be able to shut off the water to your house by opening a small metal cover in the pavement outside the boundary of the property. There will be a stopcock underground but you will need a key to operate it. These are available in hardware shops.

suitseir

Thanks Strombone. I just thought for sarachryan that they may have the red wheel as described, instead of the tap as pictured.

I am in Galway and a lot of my neighbours are without water. So far, I am fine. I have water. My outside tap which is right outside my kitchen window is not working so I wrapped it in a towel wrung out in boiling water and covered it over. It loosened the tap (which is brass, I think) but no water. I intend to remove the towel in about an hour and wrap it up in a blanket and turn it on a little to allow for flow when the thaw comes. Hopefully, I won't have any problems.

strombone wrote: »

yes, suitseir, it can be a red and shaped like a wheel. Turn it off (i.e. stop the flow of water into the house from the mains) and the kitchen sink cold tap won't run.

I'm not a plumber by the way, and have no real knowledge of how it all works, but I've been through this in the past.

FWIW, the type of tap/valve whatever shown in the pic posted above is a better quality (more durable) version of the red wheel. When we had our problem with our connection, the plumber who fixed it advised 'upgrading' our "red wheel"to the type as posted in the pic above.

Sarach - I don't know how many people who get frozen pipes within their house necessarily get a leak afterwards, but I know for sure it's not all. Since your kictchen tap is still running, it's connected to the mains, so, to find your connection point try to trace or map out which direction the cold pipe under your kitchen sink might run along on its way to an external wall, since at some point it hooks up with the mains coming in from outside. hope this helps. also, you don't necessarily need a ladder to get up into an attic - a high stable chair/table and you can push up the door and lift yourself/clamber in. Bring a torch - have someone else there to keep your chair/table stable and to help push you up and hand you up the torch. Do it during daytime as it'll be very dark up there if there's no electric light up there.

SeaFields

Sorry to hijack this thread but I've the exact oppoiste problem to OP. My kitchen cold tap is the only one not working. Does that mean pipe coming from outside is frozen? All other taps in house work but obviously all coming from the attic tanks. Neighbours either side still have running water

Again sorry to hijack but i asked elsewhere and it hasn't been answered yet and my father is tarted to panic about pipes bursting. Any solutions if I'm right in my prognosis?

sarachryan

I don't have either kind of tap under the sink. There are about three of those red taps up around the hot water tank.

I'm here in the house on my own. Did everything I could to get into the attic but no go. Think I might have to see if I can convince the plumber to come tomorrow.

Managed to open the attic cover and shined a torch around from my chair. Could only see a tiny bit cause I wasn't near enough but could see that there was no insulation. None whatsoever!! After paying my builder to do that when the house was done up. Can't believe it. I left the attic opening open to see if some of the heat from the room would go up into the attic. Thought it might help.

suitseir

There are two cold water entrances to the average house. One at the sink, the other to the attic. In your case, the one to the attic could be fine. Turn on the cold water tap in the bathroom for a few seconds and see if it is running. If it is, then the water to the attic is fine. Is your outside tap, if you have one, on the outside wall linked onto your cold water tap in the kitchen? That may be frozen. Try covering the outside tap, if you have one and wait for thaw. If the cold tap in bathroom is working at least you can use your loos and shower....

SeaFields wrote: »

Sorry to hijack this thread but I've the exact oppoiste problem to OP. My kitchen cold tap is the only one not working. Does that mean pipe coming from outside is frozen? All other taps in house work but obviously all coming from the attic tanks. Neighbours either side still have running water

Again sorry to hijack but i asked elsewhere and it hasn't been answered yet and my father is tarted to panic about pipes bursting. Any solutions if I'm right in my prognosis?

suitseir

If your house is in an estate, as in similar to the one next door!, maybe ask them which one of the taps is the correct one to turn of.....

sarachryan wrote: »

I don't have either kind of tap under the sink. There are about three of those red taps up around the hot water tank.

I'm here in the house on my own. Did everything I could to get into the attic but no go. Think I might have to see if I can convince the plumber to come tomorrow.

Managed to open the attic cover and shined a torch around from my chair. Could only see a tiny bit cause I wasn't near enough but could see that there was no insulation. None whatsoever!! After paying my builder to do that when the house was done up. Can't believe it. I left the attic opening open to see if some of the heat from the room would go up into the attic. Thought it might help.

sarachryan

suitseir wrote: »

If your house is in an estate, as in similar to the one next door!, maybe ask them which one of the taps is the correct one to turn of.....

Good plan!!

Pete67

You don't need to turn it off yet - you still have water at the kitchen sink. You just need to know where to turn it off quickly if necessary!

If there really is no insulation in your attic, it is unlikely that you have frozen pipes up therem unless there was no heat in you house at all for several days. The rising main supplying water to the tanks in the attic may be frozen though especially if is is routed near an outside wall.

sarachryan

You're all great to answer my really annoying questions.

Went into neighbours, scared the living daylights out of them. Neither knew where mains were. Made me feel a little less stupid but not much use.

sarachryan

Pete67 wrote: »

You don't need to turn it off yet - you still have water at the kitchen sink. You just need to know where to turn it off quickly if necessary!

If there really is no insulation in your attic, it is unlikely that you have frozen pipes up therem unless there was no heat in you house at all for several days. The rising main supplying water to the tanks in the attic may be frozen though especially if is is routed near an outside wall.

So the tank fills from a separate pipe to the one that routes the water coming out of the tap in kitchen?
That would explain it so.

Pete67

sarachryan wrote: »

So the tank fills from a separate pipe to the one that routes the water coming out of the tap in kitchen?
That would explain it so.

It depends on how the original plumber installed the pipes when the house was built. The most common scheme is for the mains water supply to be in 1/2 inch hydrodare (thick wall black plastic pipe, outside diameter 3/4") underground, rising up through the floor inside the house under kitchen sink to a stopcock which should isolate all water supples to the house. From the stopcock it continues all the way to the attic to fill the tank(s) but with a T fitting to supply cold water directly to the kitchen sink.

There may be houses with separate supplies to kitchen and attic but it is not good practice. If you can at all get someone to have a look in the attic and see what is going on there.

sarachryan

Pete67 wrote: »

It depends on how the original plumber installed the pipes when the house was built. The most common scheme is for the mains water supply to be in 1/2 inch hydrodare (thick wall black plastic pipe, outside diameter 3/4") underground, rising up through the floor inside the house under kitchen sink to a stopcock which should isolate all water supples to the house. From the stopcock it continues all the way to the attic to fill the tank(s) but with a T fitting to supply cold water directly to the kitchen sink.

There may be houses with separate supplies to kitchen and attic but it is not good practice. If you can at all get someone to have a look in the attic and see what is going on there.

Will do.
Thanks Pete.

suitseir

sarachryan wrote: »

Good plan!!

Sorry that didn't work.....maybe try the neighbours at the other side of you! or across the road from you....someone is bound to know!

Jeez, lovely weather to look at but I will welcome back the rain....at least we wouldn't be having all this hassle.

sarachryan

suitseir wrote: »

Sorry that didn't work.....maybe try the neighbours at the other side of you! or across the road from you....someone is bound to know!

Jeez, lovely weather to look at but I will welcome back the rain....at least we wouldn't be having all this hassle.

It is lovely to look at all right. Anyway, showers are over rated.

sarachryan

Update -

This morning the tank filled. I could hear it gushing away in the attic. Then I had normal water for about 30 mins. Then it was gone again.
With help, I managed to get up into the attic today.
There are two tanks if that makes any sense. One seems to feed into the other. There was some ice in one but it wasn't blocking anything.
Fed an electric rad up there and that has been on for hours.
Used gentle hairdryer on pipes and poured luke warm water into the tanks.

After a few hours there is a trickle of water coming into the tank.
The cold in the kitchen tap has remained constant.

Onwards and sideways...