Buying a 2010 Honda Civic 5dr (should I be worried)

Damien360

The old man is buying a new car.
A: It must be new 2010. Too many ex-rentals he feels.
B: Must have road tax of 156 or lower.
C: Must be a hatchback.
He wants petrol but I might be able to change that. On the other hand he does tiny mileage. Less than 10000km per year. It will be a town car.
E: Preference is for japanese cars only.
F: Importing from UK would be just crap for him so thats out.

Willing to spend close to 24000 not including the scrappage.

He has a 14yr 1.3L starlet for scrappage with the NCT due in March so that is his deadline. He is definitly buying. Wanted to put money down next week but I asked him not to yet until I can talk to a few dealers near me and I might see if I can drive one also.

He was set on the Toyota Corolla but sat in it and it was too big for him. It also had 447 road tax for the petrol. I bugged colm here on boards for a while as he was really set on one last year before the old man changed his mind.

He sat in the Honda Civic 5dr and loved it. Did'nt drive it yet due to weather. He is looking at the 1.4 petrol (only 83bhp but look what he is coming from). He was quoted 23275 by main dealer in Galway City. When asked about cash price, only 1000 came off that price. With the scrappage of his car the discount was 2500. I cannot figure if he is looking at the 1.4DSi or the Vtec SE-S 1.4 version and he is'nt sure either. Online the honda site gives prices of 21,751 and 22,300 respectively. Straight away this dealer is trying to rob him so I intend getting him away from this guy. On CBG site the dealers are looking for 23500 for a 09 with 3 miles in Cork.

What is the correct pricing for this car? Should he be getting much more on a cash deal ? Are the dealers taking the mick with the scrappage scheme and just upping their prices to account for this ?

Help please

colm_mcm

1000 doesn't sound great discount for a petrol car.


Also, re: the NCT on the Starlet, he only needs to have passed or failed the NCT to qualify (€50) so don't lt that influence you too much.

Tipsy Mac

He should drive a couple of diesel cars, he probably has an image in his mind of rattling tractor engines when he hears the word diesel but the modern diesels are a world away from this.

si_guru

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

He should drive a couple of diesel cars, he probably has an image in his mind of rattling tractor engines when he hears the word diesel but the modern diesels are a world away from this.

Agreed.. Has he tried a Fiesta?

Gumbo

Damien360 wrote: »

Online the honda site gives prices of 21,751 and 22,300 respectively. Straight away this dealer is trying to rob him so I intend getting him away from this guy. On CBG site the dealers are looking for 23500 for a 09 with 3 miles in Cork.

i wouldnt jump straight to the conclusion that he is being robbed. Doesnt all the online price guides exclude delivery and related charges? so straight away you have to add on maybe 750-1000e.

Honda Website wrote:

*Delivery and related charges not included.

nice cars though. best of luck OP.

Damien360

It has to be jap really.

I just spotted online a 2.2L diesel version of this 2010 in Cork for 24900 and it says it includes a 2500 trade in allowance. Does that include scrappage scheme when they quote this normally.

BrianD3

That is an appalling price, compare that price to prices being advertised for the Octavia, Cee'd, i30, Megane, Bravo and probably others. And before anyone tries to imply that the Civic is a "premium" car with faultless relaibility - that may be true of some Hondas but the evidence is that the current generation Civic hatch is one of the least reliable cars in its class since it was introduced - both Which? magazine (UK) and the ADAC (Germany) say that.

squod

Damien360 wrote: »

E: Preference is for japanese cars only.

This sets my blood boiling sometimes, why japanese? How many japanese cars have won as many awards, been as reliable in general, had the ride and handling as good as a Focus?

Damien360

squod wrote: »

This sets my blood boiling sometimes, why japanese? How many japanese cars have won as many awards, been as reliable in general, had the ride and handling as good as a Focus?

No point arguing with him on that. He is on his 3rd or 4th starlet. Not one has given him trouble and he kept them ages. Cried when he put his first one in to the scrap yard in Galway and next day in his new one, the old one overtook him with a bunch of yobs in it. It was a silver one with lots of rust on the boot and a ZM reg on it. Ah the memories !

Gumbo

squod wrote: »

This sets my blood boiling sometimes, why japanese? How many japanese cars have won as many awards, been as reliable in general, had the ride and handling as good as a Focus?

its the OP's choice, its his money. so you should take a chill pill before all this boiling blood sends you to an early grave.

si_guru

Damien360 wrote: »

It has to be jap really.

I just spotted online a 2.2L diesel version of this 2010 in Cork for 24900 and it says it includes a 2500 trade in allowance. Does that include scrappage scheme when they quote this normally.

The Civic is British right? And the Corolla is Polish.....

Zonda999

Damien360 wrote: »

(only 83bhp but look what he is coming from).

Not sure here but wouldnt a 97 starlet 1.3XLi have 82bhp?

si_guru wrote: »

The Civic is British right? And the Corolla is Polish.....

The Civic is British alright, built in Swindon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Corolla_(E140)

Wikipedia says Turkey

European models are built in Turkey.

BrianD3

With him doing such low mileage he would get the full 7 year warranty on a Kia Cee'd. And based on the prices quoted, he'd get the car cheaper than a British built and potentially unreliable Civic. Should at least consider it.

zziplex

A 97 starlet would of lost alot of horses over the years lol,

Did he consider any mazda cars? Decent motors imo.

JHMEG

Civic 2.2 diesel is €156 road tax and is quite a decent car. The quickest of the Civics after the Type-R and gets over 50 mpg.

Japanese is understandable. They still have the reliability thing to themselves.

si_guru

BrianD3 wrote: »

With him doing such low mileage he would get the full 7 year warranty on a Kia Cee'd. And based on the prices quoted, he'd get the car cheaper than a British built and potentially unreliable Civic. Should at least consider it.

Good idea. You can't ignore that warranty - especially if you plan to be a long term owner. I had a KiaC'eed as a rental car.. 1.6CRDi is great.

r3nu4l

si_guru wrote: »

The Civic is British right? And the Corolla is Polish.....

Meh, A lot of so-called 'Irish' beef was actually born and raised abroad, shipped here, killed here, butchered and packaged here and is suddenly 'Irish'.

If the civic was designed by Honda (a Japanese company) to their specifications, then it's Japanese imo. It's mostly robots building them anyway so 'quality' doesn't suffer in that regard...

RandomAccess

The 2.2 cdti would be my preference.
Supposed to be quiet, and has good power rating with really surprisingly low co2. When the new road tax scheme came in, it went to the top of my list of cars to consider.

Must give it a try and see is it really as quiet as they say.

Vikings

Diesel Yaris?

He might only ever need to top it up once!

biggus

The closest thing to what your dads generation would feel is a modern Corrolla is the current model Kia Rio. Not Japanese I know but built in South Korea with 7 year warranty. Petrol or diesel Saloon or hatch. Save him a bundle too €12800 new. A word of warning the Diesel is prob too quick for him (seriously 110 bhp)

Midnight_EG

Get him the VTEC, let him have some fun :P

Tea 1000

squod wrote: »

This sets my blood boiling sometimes, why japanese? How many japanese cars have won as many awards, been as reliable in general, had the ride and handling as good as a Focus?

All of them would be as reliable as a Focus, handling in the Focus is very good, but over rated. Awards are a load of crap in the car world mostly.
As for the comment on the Civic being the bottom of its class for reliability, utter tripe.

Tea 1000

RandomAccess wrote: »

The 2.2 cdti would be my preference.
Supposed to be quiet, and has good power rating with really surprisingly low co2. When the new road tax scheme came in, it went to the top of my list of cars to consider.

Must give it a try and see is it really as quiet as they say.

In the Accord it is, although the gap has closed. In the Civic it's not just as quiet, they had to modify it slightly for the smaller engine bay in the Civic.

BrianD3

Tea 1000 wrote: »

As for the comment on the Civic being the bottom of its class for reliability, utter tripe.

Really? So you know more than the ADAC, a motoring organisation that has collected data on thousands of callouts and actual breakdowns.
2005 - Civic 9th out of 13 cars for reliability
2006 - Civic 11th out of 13 cars
2007 - Civic 13th out of 13 cars
2008 - Civic 12th out of 12 cars

And then there's Which? magazine which has collated data on reliability. It generally praises Honda but in 2009 had this to say:
"Notably, Japanese medium cars the Honda Civic (87%), Nissan Qashqai (87%) and Toyota Auris (86%) all disappointed in the new-car reliability rankings this year"

And in 2007 had this to say:
"There is just one surprise from Honda – the latest Civic has a poor reliability rating of only 82 per cent. Owners have reported problems with the fuel system, steering and suspension"

So based on this it is fair enough to say that the current Honda Civic is a relatively unreliable car that if the prices quoted to the OP are correct, is priced way above its more reliable competitors.

pburns

biggus wrote: »

The closest thing to what your dads generation would feel is a modern Corrolla is the current model Kia Rio. Not Japanese I know but built in South Korea with 7 year warranty. Petrol or diesel Saloon or hatch. Save him a bundle too €12800 new. A word of warning the Diesel is prob too quick for him (seriously 110 bhp)

Nah, the first of the decent Kias was the C'eed. 7 year warranty as well. It's very, very similar to a Auris, I'd actually have one in preference.

It should suit him to a T if he can be convinced they are as reliable as Japs. I'm surprised he likes the Civic with it's space-age styling and useless reverse visability.

The 1.4D in the Toyota is a great little engine BTW.

Tea 1000

BrianD3 wrote: »

Really? So you know more than the ADAC

Yep!

JHMEG

pburns wrote: »

The 1.4D in the Toyota is a great little engine BTW.

When put alongside the 2.2 in the Civic, which has similar economy and road tax, it looks kinda pathetic. The 2.2 blows it into the weeds, naturally.

gibbon75

r3nu4l wrote: »

It's mostly robots building them anyway so 'quality' doesn't suffer in that regard...

Well,it did suffer somehow in Swindon

jimmycrackcorm

pburns wrote: »

Nah, the first of the decent Kias was the C'eed. 7 year warranty as well. It's very, very similar to a Auris, I'd actually have one in preference.

It should suit him to a T if he can be convinced they are as reliable as Japs. I'm surprised he likes the Civic with it's space-age styling and useless reverse visability.

The 1.4D in the Toyota is a great little engine BTW.

I drove the sister in laws Ceed - it's an absolutely fantastic car. If the jap cars were so reliable - why wouldn't they offer a 7 year warranty also?

Just tell him that kia is owned by Toyota and all the jap cars for europe eg. nissan / honda etc are made by ex British Leyland workers in the UK

TBH he sounds like Victor.....

pburns

JHMEG wrote: »

When put alongside the 2.2 in the Civic, which has similar economy and road tax, it looks kinda pathetic. The 2.2 blows it into the weeds, naturally.

I doubt it has similar economy but similar tax band and way more power - that's impressive. Many Irish buyers will be scared away by the fact it's a 2.2 though, some people go way OTT about economy and put in in front of all other factors (such as performance).

I don't consider the current Civic hatch to be a high point for Honda. Brave styling, but a bit too gimicky and aging quickly. Also, ride is supposed to be rock hard and there are visability issues (not a huge deal I admit).

I think the saloon is probably an liitle known gem - Jap built, softer suspension setting, quite handsome. Unfortunetely most of them seem to be bloody hybrids:mad:, with the 2.2d it's a great all-rounder.

colm_mcm

depending on the type of driving you do, the Civic could well do better.

kona

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Just tell him that kia is owned by Toyota and all the jap cars for europe eg. nissan / honda etc are made by ex British Leyland workers in the UK

TBH he sounds like Victor.....

What a load of bull****.

1. Any BL car that you have driven will have been assembled in Ireland, they were imported in CKD form,

2. So what if kia are owned by Toyota? So what if VAG own a **** load of companies? Still doesnt mean a kia is a toyota.

A Octavia != Passat
A leon != Golf.

LOL at the poster whos blood boils when people dont consider cars that aint Jap. This forum is flooded with people moaning about how their BMWs and VWs and Fords have expensive parts failing after low miles. Mostly with Diesel engines too.

Havnt seen many complaints about Jap cars:rolleyes:

biggus

Problem is with "jap " cars built in Britain

Bee

BrianD3 wrote: »

That is an appalling price, compare that price to prices being advertised for the Octavia, Cee'd, i30, Megane, Bravo and probably others. And before anyone tries to imply that the Civic is a "premium" car with faultless relaibility - that may be true of some Hondas but the evidence is that the current generation Civic hatch is one of the least reliable cars in its class since it was introduced - both Which? magazine (UK) and the ADAC (Germany) say that.

The hatch is the British built one

The saloon is Asian built and it is a world away in reliability from the hatch!

bijapos

€1000 discount for a cash buyer! FFS!! Its no wonder so many dealers are in trouble.

Had the same experience when looking at a new car for my parents 3 years ago, they only ever got new Polo's, every 4 years, regular as clockwork, paid cash, and then the local VW dealer decides no discount. Grand so, says I, shopped around and got a decent €2400 discount (no trade in). This was in Jan 2007 when sales were booming. Local dealer has gone to the wall since but with their attitude its no wonder.

If he only does 10,000km per year, then he doesn't honestly need a diesel, won't save him a huge amount. I don't know how old he is but get him to try out various cars, my parents settled on a Golf Plus because its bigger doors and slightly higher seat make it a bit easier for them to get in and out of.

Also if he intends keeping the car for a good few years the Kia sounds the best option, either way I'd go for a cheaper car as there's a lot more depreciation on a €23,000 car over 10 years then on a €14,000 one.

JHMEG

Bee wrote: »

The hatch is the British built one

The saloon is Asian built and it is a world away in reliability from the hatch!

The hatch isn't unreliable. Relatively speaking it's not as reliable as the previous model hatch, which was 1st in its class, and also built in Britain.

colm_mcm

kona wrote: »

What a load of bull****.

1. Any BL car that you have driven will have been assembled in Ireland, they were imported in CKD form,

2. So what if kia are owned by Toyota? So what if VAG own a **** load of companies? Still doesnt mean a kia is a toyota.

A Octavia != Passat
A leon != Golf.

LOL at the poster whos blood boils when people dont consider cars that aint Jap. This forum is flooded with people moaning about how their BMWs and VWs and Fords have expensive parts failing after low miles. Mostly with Diesel engines too.

Havnt seen many complaints about Jap cars:rolleyes:

He's not claiming any of the above, he's telling the OP to say this to convince his dad


I don't think where a car is built makes much difference. Certainly on Toyotas it doesn't - design and parts determine that - workforce and quality control seems to be consistent.

kona

colm_mcm wrote: »

He's not claiming any of the above, he's telling the OP to say this to convince his dad

Why the hell would you lie to your Dad so he buys a car he doesnt want??

colm_mcm wrote: »

I don't think where a car is built makes much difference. Certainly on Toyotas it doesn't - design and parts determine that - workforce and quality control seems to be consistent.

Very true.

colm_mcm

In this case the dad wants a Japanese car, but some cars like the Tiida or Suzukis or Mazdas aren't really Japanese cars as they share their roots with European models or are designed and built in Europe.

Damien360

Thanks for all the replys so far.

It is Jap or nothing based on his own very good experiences.

My concern was the silly pricing by the dealer. 1000 off for a cash buyer is old school crap when dealer did'nt have to work to sell the car (another fool will be along soon after).

I was thinking that the heavy clutch of a diesel might be a bit much for him and therefore the petrol would be better. His neighbour has one for the last 2 years (not sure what engine) and says it is the best car he has bought and loves it. The old man is doing more and more research and this looks definite. I just want the best price for him.

The Kia Ceed is a great engine but the interior is very poor and marks badly. Brother-in-law has one and one kid makes mince meat of the interior. Personally I like the SW version of the Ceed but that would be too big for the old man. And it ain't Jap so it is a non-runner.

He sees the surveys every year and the Honda is the only runner for reliabilty of the Toyota (not matter how percieved that repuatation is here). Strange he has'nt spotted the Subaru Impreza diesel. Now that would be funny seeing him in a car complete with a scoop on the bonnet. Bit out of his price range I think and road tax is 302.

colm_mcm

how big a car does he actually need?

something like a Yaris 1.33 Luna would be a good idea as they're quite nippy (100bhp, 6 speed) tax is €104 and they're very good on fuel. AFAIK they get aircon now and the Luna has a nicer interior.

Given that he kept his last car so long, maybe a car without a DMF, particle filter, turbo, high pressure pump, sensitive injectors etc would be an idea.

Damien360

colm_mcm wrote: »

how big a car does he actually need?

something like a Yaris 1.33 Luna would be a good idea as they're quite nippy (100bhp, 6 speed) tax is €104 and they're very good on fuel. AFAIK they get aircon now and the Luna has a nicer interior.

Given that he kept his last car so long, maybe a car without a DMF, particle filter, turbo, high pressure pump, sensitive injectors etc would be an idea.

He hated the Yaris from the day it came out. He thinks it is a womans car. That from a man driving a starlet. He was all on for an auris also but the toyota dealer would'nt play ball and give him a decent price at all and the tax on the 1.4 was not 156. He used to deal with Tom Hogan motors all the time. The guy remembered his name every time he arrived, even though he was only there to service his car. Dad always claimed the first car Hogans ever sold as a toyota dealer was the car he sold him but I am not sure how true that it is. He was loyal to that dealer every single time he bought a new car.

He is setting his heart on the honda.

colm_mcm

The Auris is coming with the new 1.33 engine and Stop-Start system, (same as Urban Cruiser) it's been out in the UK for yonks now. It qualifies for €156 tax as well.

AFAIK Toyota in Ireland will have these quite soon but there are better options out there for the money.

Damien360

The UK is offered the 1.4Dsi (83bhp petrol) and a 1.4 Vtec (100bhp) with lower emmisions. Is that not offered to us here ?

b1964

the current civic was first released at the end of 2005,a new model will probably be out in 2011,value may drop sharply when new model is released.

Damien360

b1964 wrote: »

the current civic was first released at the end of 2005,a new model will probably be out in 2011,value may drop sharply when new model is released.

Not an issue as the car will be kept for many years.

colm_mcm

the SE-S has the VTEC engine. the SE is DSi

EPM

I'd usually get slaughtered for this but I might just get away with it...how about a nice low mileage 09 Tiida hatch. No one wants them so he'll save a packet on a new car and it should last well.

I feel dirty now...

Damien360

EPM wrote: »

I'd usually get slaughtered for this but I might just get away with it...how about a nice low mileage 09 Tiida hatch. No one wants them so he'll save a packet on a new car and it should last well.

I feel dirty now...

Shame on you !!! LOL

Damien360

colm_mcm wrote: »

the SE-S has the VTEC engine. the SE is DSi

Just checked the Honda site. They quoted bhp on DSi and NM for the Vtec. Did'nt realise it was not just a spec difference.

colm_mcm

nah, their 0-60 and emissions figures are different. not just a spec difference.