TV Licence - ALL TV licence discussion/queries in this thread.

Sam Russell

KetchupKid wrote: »

Sorry, you missed my point. I can get Saorview if I want to, I just don't want it since I have no interest in RTE and therefore want to save the €160. Before the digital switchover all TVs were capable of getting RTE if you wanted it or not, this is no longer the case if you have a non-saorview TV. So if I don't have a Saorview TV, a Saorview box, Sky, UPC or a Ka Satelitte - I can't get RTE and I shouldn't have to pay the TV license.

If you want a TV without a licence you must either live elsewhere in a country that allows that - or campain politically for a change in the law. Good luck with that.

Bob24

Or if your old TV is only used for video games or waching DVDs - just sell it for cheap and buy are 27in computer monitor with speakers and HDMI input. I got one for 200 euros last year ad it works great as long as ou pick one with a panel technology optimised for high contrast and 1080p resolution. With the saving on the licence and selling your old TV it will pay for itself immediatly - and the scond year you will start saving on the licence. As long as it doesn't have a TV tuner you will not legally have to pay for a licence.

KetchupKid

Thanks for all the replies. I have 2 TVs, both are quite old CRT types, neither are flat screen, it’s pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain that they can’t get Saorview without some sort of a box, sky or cable. One is used for PS3 and DVDs and the other is used for FreeSat. Since the Saorview digital switch over, neither can or have been used for Saorview. I’ve never used RTE Player and I haven’t listened to any of the dire RTE radio in years and if I did, it is a TV licence and if my neighbour had no TV and 100 radios all tuned to RTE radio he wouldn’t have to legally pay for a TV licence. I know I can buy a cheap Saorview STB, but I consciously didn’t since if I had it I’d rarely use it and I didn’t want to have to pay the TV licence. The only RTE show I’ve watched in years is Love-Hate, but I bought the box set, so that’s been paid for and should be independent. If you say the price I paid for the box-set wasn’t enough because it’s subsidised by RTE, then by the same logic RTE should be charging more to people in the UK and US that bought Love-Hate.

“Part of the TV licence also goes to the making of movies and content that possibly show up on UK channels.”, I can’t think of any RTE show on UK channels, but if there was one the UK channel would have to pay RTE for it. As far as Irish people watching UK TV for free, that’s true, but currently it’s not illegal and just because I opt to watch free UK content doesn’t mean I should have to pay RTE. If the system were to change in the future then I would have to decide if I want to stop watching TV completely or pay for a UK TV license, but this isn’t the case, but that would also apply to those that watch both RTE and UK channels, they’d need to get both an Irish and a UK licence.

“The law says if you have a TV and whether or not it’s used for Saorview you require a TV licence” The law actually doesn’t mention Saorview specifically, but the whole intent of the law is to pay for RTE content. If I’m not watching RTE content I shouldn’t have to pay for it. As indicated, the law states:

"From the 24 October an analogue television set will need a set-top box to receive digital signals. An analogue television, with or without a set-top box, will still require a licence."
The definition of a Television set (Section 140 (1) of the Broadcasting Act 2009) " 'television set' means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not it’s used for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus."

So going by that definition the law includes all computers, laptops, tablets and smart phones even if the device is incapable of receiving any form of RTE broadcast for the sole purpose of funding RTE and their overpaid salaries. Also the law states “capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast”, well my TV is capable of receiving TV broadcasts, but it’s not capable of receiving any Irish TV broadcasts, maybe the law needs to be challenged and corrected. Oddly enough laptops and smartphones are capable of receiving Irish TV broadcasts but are currently over-looked, but my 15 year old TV which can’t receiving any Irish TV broadcasts isn’t.

Bob24 said “Or if your old TV is only used for video games or watching DVDs - just sell it for cheap and buy are 27in computer monitor with speakers and HDMI input. I got one for 200 euros last year”. Thanks for the suggestion Bob, but I don’t think anyone would buy my old TVs and thanks to all our new taxes I don’t have any spare cash for a new monitor and if I did buy one I’m sure it wouldn’t be long before they start going after computer owners to also pay the TV licence. To be honest, I don’t watch much UK TV either, but why should I throw out my old TVs to avoid paying RTE for something that I don’t want and don’t use.

Well something is clearly wrong with the law and I am prepared to test the system. I’ve always reluctantly paid my TV Licence, but now since the Saorview switchover and the fact my current licence has just expired, I am refusing to pay on the grounds I don’t use RTE services. I’ll be happy to test the system, because I shouldn’t have to pay for something that I am intentionally not using.

The Cush

KetchupKid wrote: »

I’ll be happy to test the system, because I shouldn’t have to pay for something that I am intentionally not using.

The TV licence is a tax for the posession of a TV set whether you use it to receive Irish TV channels or not. If it is broken or only has an analogue tuner it can be repaired or upgraded with a Saorview/cable/satellite STB to display a TV channel.

You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone but you do require a licence if the computer is used together with any other apparatus to receive a signal such as a STB.

KetchupKid

Hi Cush,

Thanks for your reply, but I think too many people are interpreting the law to allow for the incorrect inconsistencies in it. Where in the law does it state you have to pay your TV ‘Tax’ if the TV is broken? Yes a broken TV can be repaired or upgraded with a Saorview/cable/satellite STB to display a TV channel, but so can a laptop or you could just as easily go out and buy a Saorview TV. You also said, “You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone but you do require a licence if the computer is used together with any other apparatus to receive a signal such as a STB.”, where in the law is this stated and if so what about RTE Player?

At the end of the day, this “TV Tax” is used to pay the likes of Pat Kenny and Ryan Tubridy people that don’t watch these “Virtual superstars” shouldn’t have to pay for them.

runawaybishop

KetchupKid wrote: »

At the end of the day, this “TV Tax” is used to pay the likes of Pat Kenny and Ryan Tubridy people that don’t watch these “Virtual superstars” shouldn’t have to pay for them.

I don't drive in Kerry, why should I subsidise their roads with my tax?

The tv license is a public service tax, thats why.

STB

KetchupKid wrote: »

Hi Cush,

Thanks for your reply, but I think too many people are interpreting the law to allow for the incorrect inconsistencies in it. Where in the law does it state you have to pay your TV ‘Tax’ if the TV is broken? Yes a broken TV can be repaired or upgraded with a Saorview/cable/satellite STB to display a TV channel, but so can a laptop or you could just as easily go out and buy a Saorview TV. You also said, “You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone but you do require a licence if the computer is used together with any other apparatus to receive a signal such as a STB.”, where in the law is this stated and if so what about RTE Player?

At the end of the day, this “TV Tax” is used to pay the likes of Pat Kenny and Ryan Tubridy people that don’t watch these “Virtual superstars” shouldn’t have to pay for them.

You need a licence if you have a TV regardless of its capabilities. It is nothing to do with the ability to receive RTE. It is the item itself that is licensable.

This thread is full of similar stories. In your case you watch TV anyhow. It doesnt matter that it isnt RTE you are watching.

KetchupKid

runawaybishop wrote: »

I don't drive in Kerry, why should I subsidise their roads with my tax?

The tv license is a public service tax, thats why.

You don't drive in Kerry, but you do drive in Ireland, the Motor Tax is for all the roads. So if you only use RTE to watch Fair City and nothing else you'll still need to pay the "TV Tax" which also pays for Pat Kenny and Tubridy even if you hate them. But if you decide not to drive your car in Ireland then you don't have to pay motor tax, en if the car is still capable of driving. I've decided not to drive my TV on the Irish frequencies and not watch any RTE content and I can prove that it's not capable of receiving any Irish content, so why should I have to pay for the RTE content which overpays the Plank and Tubridy?

runawaybishop

KetchupKid wrote: »

You don't drive in Kerry, but you do drive in Ireland, the Motor Tax is for all the roads. So if you only use RTE to watch Fair City and nothing else you'll still need to pay the "TV Tax" which also pays for Pat Kenny and Tubridy even if you hate them. But if you decide not to drive your car in Ireland then you don't have to pay motor tax, en if the car is still capable of driving. I've decided not to drive my TV on the Irish frequencies and not watch any RTE content and I can prove that it's not capable of receiving any Irish content, so why should I have to pay for the RTE content which overpays the Plank and Tubridy?

I agree, my analogy sucked. I should have thought about it more You still have to pay though because its a public service broadcaster. Yo might not like this (i agree with you personally) but thats the way it is currently. To get it changed you'd need to lobby your TD.

KetchupKid

STB wrote: »

In your case you watch TV anyhow. It doesnt matter that it isnt RTE you are watching.

The law is flawed if it requires someone with a TV that is incapable to watch RTE content to pay for RTE content. Just as a car that doesn't drive on Irish Roads doesn't have to pay Irish motor tax to maintain the Irish roads. Meanwhile, computers that are capable of watching Irish RTE content don't necessarily have to pay the "TV Tax".

The Cush

KetchupKid wrote: »

The law is flawed if it requires someone with a TV that is incapable to watch RTE content to pay for RTE content.

Recent Dáil question on this

412. Deputy Dominic Hannigan
asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if a person cannot obtain a Saorview signal to their analogue television do they still have to pay the television licence; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [56559/12]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Pat Rabbitte): The requirement for a TV licence is set out in the Broadcasting Act 2009. This Act requires everyone who possesses a TV capable of receiving TV signals to have a TV licence.

In this regard those who possess a TV in Ireland must have a TV licence regardless of whether they are using the TV to receive SAORVIEW, or not.

It is worth noting that TV licence holders in Ireland are not required to use SAORVIEW and indeed about 80% of TV households use a pay TV service or access the Free to air UK satellite channels.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2012121800082?opendocument&highlight=TV%20LICENCE#WRS01950

KetchupKid wrote: »

but I think too many people are interpreting the law to allow for the incorrect inconsistencies in it. Where in the law does it state you have to pay your TV ‘Tax’ if the TV is broken?

This from the Citizens Information website

If your household, business or institution possesses a television or equipment capable of receiving a television signal, you are required by law to have a television licence. Even if the television or other equipment is broken and currently unable to receive a signal, it is regarded as capable of being repaired so it can receive a signal and you must hold a licence for it.

KetchupKid

Hi Cush – thanks for the post. It’s nice to see there was an official answer on this, although I still feel Pat Rabbitte’s wrong and his logic is flawed. I never liked him anyway. I’m still not going to bother to get a STB or pay the licence and if the TV inspector comes around I will stick to my guns and on the grounds of civil disobedience I will still fight my case and if the justice system in this country was fair I would win, since the intent of the fee is to pay RTE something I can prove I don't use.

runawaybishop

KetchupKid wrote: »

Hi Cush – thanks for the post. It’s nice to see there was an official answer on this, although I still feel Pat Rabbitte’s wrong and his logic is flawed. I never liked him anyway. I’m still not going to bother to get a STB or pay the licence and if the TV inspector comes around I will stick to my guns and on the grounds of civil disobedience I will still fight my case and if the justice system in this country was fair I would win, since the intent of the fee is to pay RTE something I can prove I don't use.

In fairness, no. You shouldn't win as the law is crystal clear.

The Cush

KetchupKid wrote: »

I’m still not going to bother to get a STB or pay the licence and if the TV inspector comes around I will stick to my guns and on the grounds of civil disobedience I will still fight my case and if the justice system in this country was fair I would win, since the intent of the fee is to pay RTE something I can prove I don't use.

Another recent Dáil question on TV licence evasion - http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2013011600092?opendocument#WRCC01850

Surge in jail terms linked to TV licences
121 women are sent to jail for failing to pay TV licence fines

KetchupKid

runawaybishop wrote: »

In fairness, no. You shouldn't win as the law is crystal clear.

Crystal clear to who, a blind fortune teller??
If the law was so clear it would have a clear definition of what a TV is, currently the definition does include computers and smart-phones that can view TV, but everyone says you don't need a licence for them, but they expect someone with a broken TV to get a licence, all to pay Pat the Plank and Ryan the little nerd their bloated salaries..

Bob24

KetchupKid wrote: »

Crystal clear to who, a blind fortune teller??
If the law was so clear it would have a clear definition of what a TV is, currently the definition does include computers and smart-phones that can view TV, but everyone says you don't need a licence for them, but they expect someone with a broken TV to get a licence, all to pay Pat the Plank and Ryan the little nerd their bloated salaries..

Have a look here: http://www.anpost.ie/AnPost/GeneralTemplates/FAQ.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b24D68E6B-0B76-48A7-A11E-ADE6D4D02F8A%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fAnPost%2fFAQs%2fTV%2bLicence%2bFAQsOld%2ehtm&NRCACHEHINT=Guest#DigitalQuestion

The definition of a Television set (Section 140 (1) of the Broadcasting Act 2009)

"television set" means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its used for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus.


Not saying wether it is morally right or wrong, but I think your old TVs are clearly included in this definition. And a judge will not make a moral call either, they will just look at the law and see on which side you are ...

zg3409

If you want to test the system ring the TV licence section and ask them to visit and show them around your home and explain your moral problems. Then update this thread. However in court you will probably be fined 500 Euro in addition to having to get a TV licence. If you do not pay the fine you will be jailed like the rest.

You could update the thread after getting out of jail, I think you don't need a TV licence in prison, but updating boards.ie might be difficult.

Sam Russell

zg3409 wrote: »

You could update the thread after getting out of jail, I think you don't need a TV licence in prison, but updating boards.ie might be difficult.

You still would need a TV licence if you still have a TV in your home (which you cannot watch because you are in prison). Being absent does not absolve the requirement.:)

Get a licence, it will be cheaper in the long run.

STB

KetchupKid wrote: »

You also said, “You do not require a television licence to watch television on your computer or mobile phone but you do require a licence if the computer is used together with any other apparatus to receive a signal such as a STB.”, where in the law is this stated and if so what about RTE Player?

Section 140 of the Broadcasting Act

“ television set ” means any electronic apparatus capable of receiving and exhibiting television broadcasting services broadcast for general reception (whether or not its use for that purpose is dependent on the use of anything else in conjunction with it) and any software or assembly comprising such apparatus and other apparatus;

zg3409 wrote: »

If you want to test the system ring the TV licence section and ask them to visit and show them around your home and explain your moral problems. Then update this thread. However in court you will probably be fined 500 Euro in addition to having to get a TV licence. If you do not pay the fine you will be jailed like the rest.

You could update the thread after getting out of jail, I think you don't need a TV licence in prison, but updating boards.ie might be difficult.

Now thats sarcasm.

Capt'n Midnight

KetchupKid wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. I have 2 TVs, ... and the other is used for FreeSat.

Game Over

If you can receive broadcast TV signals then you need a license for that device. And they've been collecting that revenue since before the founding of the state.


There might be some fuzzy areas but if you have a screen of less than 7 inches diagonal or is portable and runs entirely on batteries (and you can't even watch using a charger) and that would have to include the Freesat receiver.

Johnboy1951

KetchupKid,
when reading the definition of the TV apparatus, pay special attention to the use of "broadcast".

To be capable of receiving a broadcast signal there is a tuner involved.

To receive "TV" over the internet does not require a tuner.

The law does not distinguish between different tuners ..... so it appears that a device with a tuner capable of receiving the old analogue signal is treated the same as one with a modern tuner capable of receiving digital transmissions.

Now that all (?) analogue broadcasts have been switched off, it is my belief that TV sets with old tuners (as stand-alone devices) *should* not be subject to licence ---- but they are, because there is no distinction made in the law.

A change to the law to include the word 'current' when referring to broadcast signals or something similar, would be in order in my view.

Similarly, a combination of devices, providing a display and a tuner, are subject to licence.
A laptop with a USB DTT dongle, connected to an aerial, plugged in is also subject to the licence.
The laptop without tuner is not.
The dongle with out laptop is not (not capable of displaying).

To sum up .... the licence is for possession equipment and nothing else.
If the equipment is capable of doing as specified in the law then it/they are subject to licence.


So to avoid a licence while still be legally able to watch films, videos etc you would need to ensure you have no tuners capable of receiving broadcast TV signals of any type.

I would like to see that part of the law changed to capable of receiving current broadcast signals ... in other words omitting signals that are no longer in use. This would allow the use of older TVs as monitors without the requirement of a TV licence.

Pawwed Rig

The UK law is clearer in that you need a device capable of receiving live TV signals before you need a license.

cjay0512

Hey Guys,

Moved into a rented house last February. There was a TV licence at the premises until end of May 2012 (previous renter).
We never renewed the licence and the TV licence man called yesterday, thank god there was nobody home. Anyway so my question is does he know how long we've been living there, Can I just buy a licence now to last me until Feb 2014 or will I have to pay the arrears from last May?

Any help much appreciated

Thanks

Ciara

leeomurchu

cjay0512 wrote: »

Hey Guys,

Moved into a rented house last February. There was a TV licence at the premises until end of May 2012 (previous renter).
We never renewed the licence and the TV licence man called yesterday, thank god there was nobody home. Anyway so my question is does he know how long we've been living there, Can I just buy a licence now to last me until Feb 2014 or will I have to pay the arrears from last May?

Any help much appreciated

Thanks

Ciara

If you haven't held a tv licence in your name at the premises then you can just apply for a new licence from today.

If you have then get one in your partners name.

No need to back date anything

Pawwed Rig

If you bought one now they wouldn't bother you anymore as once a license is listed at an address it won't flag for follow up.
I have never heard of them chasing arrears so wouldn't worry too much about it.

Bob24

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

If you bought one now they wouldn't bother you anymore as once a license is listed at an address it won't flag for follow up.
I have never heard of them chasing arrears so wouldn't worry too much about it.

And anyway they can only document the fact that you have a TV from the day of the inspection (they have no way to prove that you had one before the day the inspector saw it).

If you buy a licence now and the inspector doesn't have to show up again, I think from their perspective you will still be a good citizen ;-)

zg3409

Personally I don't put my own name on the licence. The reason is, if I forget to pay it for some reason, or I move out etc, when then inspector arrives he will not have a name to bring to court. Once you have a licence in a name, it's a name they can bring to court.

They can't bring "the householder" to court, but I do have an up to date licence.

ps200306

I'm sick of wasting my time on telly (especially Irish telly). From now on I will only watch recorded or downloaded content. I've cancelled the Sky contract, and will be removing the Sky STB and three TVs from the house. I'll replace them with a decent monitor with no tuner -- I need a new PC monitor anyway.

All well and good -- I now do not need a TV license. It's due for renewal at the end of this month. How do I let them know I have no TV anymore? There's no sign of any info in An Post's FAQs.

Do I send them a registered letter? When the inevitable reminders start coming I want evidence that I told them before my current license expired. Especially since I have no intention of taking down the Sky dish off the house, and I have another broadband satellite dish, so it looks like a TV addict's house.

Bob24

ps200306 wrote: »

How do I let them know I have no TV anymore? There's no sign of any info in An Post's FAQs.

I did the same thing a few years ago - so it might be different now - but at the time I called the TV license office to tell them I had no more TV. They sent out a form to fill and sign where you declare there is no TV in your house. Never heard of them again after returning the form, so I guess they marked me as "no TV".
I assume they might still come and check whether you are telling the truth, but given that they have a signed declaration with your name they shouldn't send you any letter requiring you to pay.

Pawwed Rig

ps200306 wrote: »

I have no intention of taking down the Sky dish off the house, and I have another broadband satellite dish, so it looks like a TV addict's house.

If you have a dish that is receiving equipment and you need a licence.

Yes the law is dumb