Sinn Fein, abstensionist policy, what's their logic?

dlofnep

Sorry, I had a figure of 26.0% instead of 25.8% - I was off by 0.2% - apologies.

Yes, the generals will certainly say alot. There are also Republicans not accounted for who do not vote for parties - such as Éirígí and the 32CSM. I believe there is a huge black hole there that people do not account for when it comes down to it. How much these people account for is up in the air, but I'm willing to suspect it's quite a few from what I've seen at parades and such.

So in truth, all we really get to see are Republicans who vote for parties who engage with the establishment. I guess we'll only know when the time comes.

gormdubhgorm

ei.sdraob wrote: »

considering that Ireland and UK are both members of European Union with free travel of goods, trade and people and full democratic rights for all

i find this nationalistic quest for reunification rather amusing

Is a nationalist quest more of a serious question now?

And should sinn fein enter westminster to sabotage May's government numerically?

A Little Pony

Is no logic to it. But more fool them. The DUP will be helping to run the place now from Westminster.

blanch152

lugha wrote: »

Sinn Fein are likely soon to be the biggest party but they still won't have anything close to an over all majority. Even with the SDLP the won't. And it's widely accepted that many people in the Nationalist camp, when push comes to shove, will opt for the status quo.
What happens if it fails? It will be held again automatically after 7 years and again after another 7 and so on. Still cannot believe the Unionist agreed to that, It all but guarantees a UI.

It won't be held automatically every 7 years - it is a minimum of 7 years. The same test needs to be applied by the Secretary of State. It really depends on the outcome. Say 52/48 to stay with the UK, then you will likely get another referendum after around 7 years. Say 90/10 to stay with the UK, then you won't see another referendum for 50 years.

oppenheimer1

Lads, this thread - while topical - is 7 years old.

Looking back there are some great contributors in this thread who sadly no longer post (at least under those handles).

Nekarsulm

Never say Never!

So it seems Sinn Fein are heading to Westminister to counter the DUP advantage!

Interesting times !

Edit. Unless I was looking at a fake site. Cannot see the newspaper article now.

NIMAN

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Never say Never!

So it seems Sinn Fein are heading to Westminister to counter the DUP advantage!

Interesting times !

Edit. Unless I was looking at a fake site. Cannot see the newspaper article now.

I think you must have been reading Waterford Whispers.;)

riffmongous

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

And should sinn fein enter westminster to sabotage May's government numerically?

No, I am not convinced yet that having the DUP in power will be a bad thing, the increased spotlight on the party might actually be a positive. I wonder if I am alone in being asked by English colleagues if the DUP really are the terrorist sympathising, anti- homosexual, anti- abortion party they read about on facebook.

Jayop

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That's solely down to there being more major unionist parties splitting the vote.

Incorrect. The Unionist total vote has now dropped below 50 percent with the nationalist, greens, pbp, Alliance making up slightly over 50 percent.

Jayop

Whoops, hadn't realized that post I quoted was so old. Wasn't there a very similar thread with the same title in the last few days?

LordSutch

If the DUP play this right, it could be the making of them in more ways than one. Firstly, I hope they modernise & ditch their anti gay stance, and secondly, I hope they deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland.

As I say, it could be the making of them as a 21st century progressive party > Unless of course they make a cock up in their "arrangement" with TM.

Re Sinn Fein;
Well having No voice at the table isn't a good start, so obviously Sinn Fein will lose out big time, whatever happens......

Jayop

Losing out is going well for them the last few years.

NIMAN

LordSutch wrote: »

If the DUP play this right, it could be the making of them in more ways than one. Firstly, I hope they modernise & ditch their anti gay stance, and secondly, I hope they deliver for all the people of Northern Ireland.

As I say, it could be the making of them as a 21st century progressive party > Unless of course they make a cock up in their "arrangement" with TM.

Re Sinn Fein;
Well having No voice at the table isn't a good start, so obviously Sinn Fein will lose out big time, whatever happens......

I can't see the DUP gaining much out of this....they will be more or less a silent partner, and it looks like there will be another election in the UK in the autumn (or before), according to most of the media experts.

blanch152

Jayop wrote: »

Losing out is going well for them the last few years.

Yes, they certainly seem to be making electoral gains on the back of it. However, this latest result and the facilitation of a Conservative/DUP coalition may upset things a bit.

The other point is that SF may be winning but is Northern Ireland? Look at West Belfast and the sterling efforts of its MPs over the years to bring it out of misery and poverty.

blanch152

NIMAN wrote: »

I can't see the DUP gaining much out of this....they will be more or less a silent partner, and it looks like there will be another election in the UK in the autumn (or before), according to most of the media experts.

Are they the same media experts who predicted that the FG/Independent Alliance government wouldn't last the summer (last summer that is)?

Nekarsulm

NIMAN wrote: »

I think you must have been reading Waterford Whispers.;)

No, not WWN, but it was something from The Scotsman, speculating that because the entire group of Sinn Sein MP's were heading to London today to visit "their Offices there" that they were possibly going to break tradition and neutralise the DUP/Con. pact.

Seth Brundle

SINN Fein’s seven MPs will fly into London today to take up their Commons offices – sparking Tory fears they may try to wreck the Prime Minister’s wafer thin majority.

The Sun can also reveal the Irish Republican party have refused to rule out taking their seats for the first time to vote through a Labour Queen’s Speech if Jeremy Corbyn offered them a referendum on unifying Ireland.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/


Edit: just to clarify, I've no idea if it's true given the source. I'm just relaying the message.

blanch152

kbannon wrote: »

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3786046/sinn-feins-mps-fly-to-london-to-take-up-their-westminster-offices-sparking-fears-they-will-wreck-plans-for-a-tory-dup-majority/


Edit: just to clarify, I've no idea if it's true given the source. I'm just relaying the message.

If true, it would make Gerry Adams a liar once again. He was on radio several times in the immediate aftermath of the election saying they wouldn't be taking up their seats. Went quiet all of a sudden though.

Jayop

Calls for them to take their seats.... Calls them liars if they do....

Yep

StringerBell

Jayop wrote: »

Calls for them to take their seats.... Calls them liars if they do....

Yep

Both are mutually exclusive tbf

People have called for them to take their seats, true.

Adams and others have again reiterated they will not be taking their seats, not last year, now, in the aftermath of the election. If they do indeed then take their seats they will have made liars of themselves.

Don't see the issue?

Jayop

I agree that they would have lied if they had taken their seats, but I also see it as ironic that one of the people who has done the most mouthing on here saying they should take their seats takes the first opportunity to say he would be a liar if he did.

Anyway, the source here is the fecking Sun. It's more scaremongering from them and a weak attempt to link Corbyn and Labour with SF to take the heat of their tory masters.

Jayop

FFS did anyone even read the article??

It's based on this...

The party confirmed that its MPs will travel to Westminster for the House of Commons induction day for newcomers and will sign up for office space, register for staff allowances and expenses – despite their century-long policy of abstention in the UK Parliament.

They've always taken office space so there's literally no story here at all. Pure rubbish.

A Little Pony

Sinn Fein won't be taking seats.

Some one said DUP should become progressive. Maybe in time as they are doing so they are flirting with more moderation. Maybe they could look to contest elections in specific seats in Englnd if they want to expand and become more moderate that way.

Straight Talker

They won't take their seats in parliament, yet the shinners will have no problems with accepting their wages as sitting members of parliament.:D

FrancieBrady

Good and reasonable analysis of abstentionism policy here: http://eamonnmallie.com/2017/06/forming-executive-dup-difficult-now-sinn-fein-danny-morrison/

NIMAN

Jayop wrote: »

FFS did anyone even read the article??

It's based on this...



They've always taken office space so there's literally no story here at all. Pure rubbish.

And expenses!

NIMAN

Straight Talker wrote: »

They won't take their seats in parliament, yet the shinners will have no problems with accepting their wages as sitting members of parliament.:D

AFAIK they don't get their MP salary if they abstain.

I think they cam claim expenses and such like for assistants and offices, travel etc.

FrancieBrady

NIMAN wrote: »

And expenses!

Why wouldn't they if they are doing constituency work?

Jayop

NIMAN wrote: »

AFAIK they don't get their MP salary if they abstain.

I think they cam claim expenses and such like for assistants and offices, travel etc.

It's in their accounts exactly what they claim and they're entitled to it given they run offices over there.

A Little Pony

FrancieBrady wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

And expenses!

Why wouldn't they if they are doing constituency work?

But they don't represent them on actually making change via voting in the HoC.

Jayop

Voting in the house would not represent their constituents nor would it make any difference. They didn't get elected to vote over there.

Seth Brundle

Jayop wrote: »

Voting in the house would not represent their constituents nor would it make any difference. They didn't get elected to vote over there.

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

Jayop

kbannon wrote: »

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

They'd have no say in any of that anyway so I don't know why it makes a difference other than a stick to beat them with.

In what way did the SDLP ever have a say on taxation issues? The few votes they had would never have made any difference on a single budget passed since they were first elected to Westminster.

blanch152

kbannon wrote: »

Thats a cop out. By staying out of the HoC they have no say on taxation and other legislative aspects that affect everyone in NI. They are supposed to represent their constituents, not just those who voted for them.

A related point is that the failure to take up their seats in the House of Commons and represent all their constituents demonstrates that they have no serious interest in uniting the people of Northern Ireland and that they are more interested in preserving and promoting sectarian division.

Seth Brundle

Jayop wrote: »

They'd have no say in any of that anyway so I don't know why it makes a difference other than a stick to beat them with.

In what way did the SDLP ever have a say on taxation issues? The few votes they had would never have made any difference on a single budget passed since they were first elected to Westminster.

You're making excuses to justify their not representing their constituients within a parliament that directly affects them.

Hurling Hereford

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Lets not knock it as the Stormont set up is a hell of a lot better than the violence and murder that preceded it.

Here, here! Sadly, I think if the Troubles were to start all over again in the 6 counties, I doubt if too many people here in the Republic would 'lose too much sleep over it'. Like they did for the years of the Troubles in the 6 counties.

FrancieBrady

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

Here, here! Sadly, I think if the Troubles were to start all over again in the 6 counties, I doubt if too many people here in the Republic would 'lose too much sleep over it'. Like they did for the years of the Troubles in the 6 counties.

Yeh, the view was always easier to enjoy if you look the other way.
Shocking how callous people are being about the peace, May is dicing with a lot of dangers.

Hurling Hereford

ei.sdraob wrote: »

considering that Ireland and UK are both members of European Union with free travel of goods, trade and people and full democratic rights for all

i find this nationalistic quest for reunification rather amusing

surely we have bigger issues (on both sides of the current border) to worry about and spend energy on

anyways since Sinn Fein would still remain an insignificant party in a united Ireland as per calculations earlier, unite away

We'll have to wait and see. Who knows, you might get a 'little shock'

A Little Pony

I must admit I do laugh at the veil threats of violence. Who is going to bring the war back in Ulster? Absolutely no excuse for it and if Sinn Fein want to influence and represent nationalist voters then get involved by going to Westminster.

Hurling Hereford

dlofnep wrote: »

That's your democratic right. You're entitled to vote for who you want to vote for.

I agree with you. Some people forget we live in a Democracy in this country of ours. Our country may not be perfect, but thankfully it is a Democracy

Hurling Hereford

ei.sdraob wrote: »

of course
and i will vote when time comes


by hanging around like a bad smell SF are not helping this unification "cause"

So what would you 'like' Sinn Fein to do, pray tell?

blanch152

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

So what would you 'like' Sinn Fein to do, pray tell?

You really shouldn't ask questions like that:)


(1) All members of Sinn Fein who have committed terrorist acts to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(2) All members of Sinn Fein who have facilitated or otherwise assisted kangaroo courts to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(3) All members of Sinn Fein who had knowledge of acts of child abuse and who did nothing to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(4) All members of Sinn Fein who were also members of the IRA to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(5) All members of Sinn Fein who were involved in criminality (including smuggling in South Armagh to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(6) Sinn Fein to issue an apology to all the victims of the IRA for pursuing an unnecessary terrorist campaign

(7) Sinn Fein to dissolve and disband and the remaining fund of Sinn Fein to be handed over to IRA victim groups.

Hurling Hereford

blanch152 wrote: »

You really shouldn't ask questions like that:)


(1) All members of Sinn Fein who have committed terrorist acts to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(2) All members of Sinn Fein who have facilitated or otherwise assisted kangaroo courts to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(3) All members of Sinn Fein who had knowledge of acts of child abuse and who did nothing to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(4) All members of Sinn Fein who were also members of the IRA to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(5) All members of Sinn Fein who were involved in criminality (including smuggling in South Armagh to hand themselves over to the PSNI and the Gardai and make full confessions and face the rigour of the law

(6) Sinn Fein to issue an apology to all the victims of the IRA for pursuing an unnecessary terrorist campaign

(7) Sinn Fein to dissolve and disband and the remaining fund of Sinn Fein to be handed over to IRA victim groups.

I take it you're having a 'jolly good time' in the Dáil Bar along with your 'fellow' Blueshirts? Btw I will ask any questions I want, mo chara

FrancieBrady

A Little Pony wrote: »

I must admit I do laugh at the veil threats of violence. Who is going to bring the war back in Ulster? Absolutely no excuse for it and if Sinn Fein want to influence and represent nationalist voters then get involved by going to Westminster.

The DUP will live to regret rowing in with the Tories. I have seen some feeble attempts to cling to power in my time but May's has to be the most pathetic in a long long time.

Eventually the snotty mainstream media will take on board what happens on social media. I believe not just the young now get their opinion and news predominately from there. I know I read a far far wider range of opinion than I ever did when it was Telly and print.
Labour won this election by astutely using SM to get their message out and landed punch after uncontested punch on May, and the media never seen the result coming.
The media has generally ignored the absolute revulsion at May taking onboard the DUP. The amount of comment on it on SM is extraordinary.
I think it is brilliant, the DUP haven't done a thing and they are reviled for what they stand for.
They risk having nowhere to turn to, no sympathetic ear come a border poll, because most Brits are gonna say, good riddance.

ancapailldorcha

Hurling Hereford wrote: »

I take it you're having a 'jolly good time' in the Dáil Bar along with your 'fellow' Blueshirts? Btw I will ask any questions I want, mo chara

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