Lough Gur Frozen

LB6

zuroph

ABEasy wrote: »

Christ, I only wanted to put up a few pics of a frozen lake. We all know the dangers of being on ice, don't need the PC brigade lecturing us. If someone wants to take risk, it's there business (as long as they're not putting anyone else in danger). So please lay off the what ifs?

I don't even know if you walked on it yourself, or brought your kid, I was talking about the people in the photo out in the middle of the Lake.

topper75

I'd like if all the people worried about ice breaking were with me at Cratloe yesterday. I'd simply challenge them to break the ice. End of their argument. It couldn't be done for love nor money without some seriously heavy tools.

You can't go onto every lake every day though. For instance, I wouldn't walk out gingerly on Cratloe today as there has been a small bit of a thaw. Lake needs to be of a relatively stagnant/small size too and best to stick to the areas you know to be shallow. Loughrea, where the Independent writes about, is much bigger. But yesterday in Cratloe the entire thing was rock solid to I'd say about 4/5 inches maybe more - no danger in that. Once in a lifetime chance.

Itsdacraic

All the ninny's giving out would wreck your head.

If you are careful about what you are doing it's a great experience.
I had to break up ice in a decent sized pond at the weekend (after spending a while fooling around on it), 5 or 6 belts of a sledge and hardly a stir on it.

iguana

topper75 wrote: »

I'd like if all the people worried about ice breaking were with me at Cratloe yesterday. I'd simply challenge them to break the ice. End of their argument. It couldn't be done for love nor money without some seriously heavy tools.

Water in a lake isn't all the same. There are rocks, twigs, branches and plants which change how the water is, cause ripples and air bubbles in the water and through the ice. This will mean the ice could be 6 inches thick in most places and full of air bubbles in some areas which will crack as soon as a bag of sugar lands on in. Yet these patches will look the exact same from the surface. I've seen sections of Lake Michigan where the ice was about 18" thick but there were holes in parts of it.

Two people fell through the ice at Loch Gur last week. And all over the world people die from this every year. It's cold in Ireland now, but it's not actually so cold that it's safe to go on frozen waterways.

homerhop

We are all told not to drink too much yet go into an A&E at the weekend and see all the fools puking on themselves or lying there with a broken bone from falling.
We are told not to speed....need I say more on that one.
Come Halloween I am sure some of the posters here will be looking for fireworks even though they are illegal and we are told of the damage they can do.
Anyone out there posting smoke? think of the hospital staff that have to deal with ye in years to come because your lungs cant clear the fluid that has built up in them along with the risks of cancer to the smoker and people around them from 2nd hand smoke....oh wait we are advised not to smoke it may cause cancer.

I dont think a single poster here has lived their lives where they have done something they are advised not to do but the halo brigade here is just a bit over the top.

Itsdacraic

iguana wrote: »

Two people fell through the ice at Loch Gur last week. And all over the world people die from this every year. It's cold in Ireland now, but it's not actually so cold that it's safe to go on frozen waterways.

Link?

swim

Maybe some food for thought about the dangers of ice!! It only takes a tiny amount of water for someone to drown.

Ice Safety
The CEO of Irish Water Safety, John Leech is advising parents to supervise their children over the next few days until the current spell of hard weather moves away. His best advice is to stay off the ice.
Children will be tempted to play on the ice where it has frozen over on many canals, ponds, lakes and flooded areas. Playing on the frozen edges of a pond, lake or canal is perilous as ice can be quite thick in one area yet it can be much thinner within the same area.
Previous hard spells of weather have ended in tragedy where young children have fallen through the ice and drowned. The CEO is advising parents of young children to be aware of their whereabouts over the next few days to ensure they do not fall through the ice.
Ice-related drownings can occur when the rescuer gets into difficulty attempting to rescue another person or a family pet. Whereas a pet will often manage to scramble to safety unaided, regrettably, the owner may not.

Know the dangers of ice
Ice Factors
Many factors affect ice thickness including: type of water, location, the time of year and other environmental factors such as: Water depth and size of body of water. Currents, tides and other moving water. Chemicals including salt. Fluctuations in water levels. Logs, rocks and docks absorbing heat from the sun. Changing air temperature. Shock waves from vehicles traveling on the ice.
Ice Colour
The colour of ice may be an indication of its strength. Clear blue ice is strongest. White opaque or snow ice is half as strong as blue ice. Opaque ice is formed by wet snow freezing on the ice. Grey ice is unsafe. The grayness indicates the presence of water.
Did you know ice thickness should be: 15 cm for walking or skating alone 20 cm for skating parties or games 25 cm for snowmobiles.
Never go out on ice alone and especially at night.
When you are with others on ice Rescuing another person from ice can be dangerous. The safest way to perform a rescue is from shore. Use your Mobile. Call for help at 999 or 112 and ask for the Emergency Services. Give your precise location, the number of people in difficulty and any conspicuous building or landmark nearby. Check if you can reach the person using a Ringbuoy and rope, long pole, items of clothing or branch from shore – if so, lie down and extend the pole to the person. If you cannot reach them then pass out something that will float e.g. a ringbuoy, empty water proof container e.g. oil, milk containers. Instruct the casualty to keep still to maintain their heat and energy; If you go onto ice, wear a PFD and carry a long pole or branch to test the ice in front of you. Bring something to reach or throw to the person (e.g. pole, weighted rope, line or tree branch). When near the break, lie down to distribute your weight and slowly crawl toward the hole. Remaining low, extend or throw your emergency rescue device (pole, rope, line or branch) to the person. Have the person kick while you pull them out.
Move the person to a safe position on shore or where you are sure the ice is thick. All casualties should be taken to hospital even if they appear to be unaffected by their ordeal as they will be suffering from hypothermia.
If you get into trouble on ice and you're by yourself Call for help. Resist the immediate urge to climb back out where you fell in. The ice is weak in this area. Use the air trapped in your clothing to get into a floating position on your stomach. Reach forward onto the broken ice without pushing down. Kick your legs to push your torso on the ice. When you are back on the ice, crawl on your stomach or roll away from the open area with your arms and legs spread out as far as possible to evenly distribute your body weight. Do not stand up! Look for shore and make sure you are going in the right direction.

h3000

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Link?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/warning-over-frozen-lakes-after-girl-falls-through-ice-2008213.html

Second last paragraph

h3000

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Considering the entire country has been walking on lakes for the last two weeks and no one has drowned yet, maybe it's not actually that dangerous? Probably because most people have enough cop on to not go put in lakes where the ice is thin or the water deep.

What I and I think a lot of other posters are referring to is the people out towards the middle of the lake in the first photo. The water is quite deep there and IF the ice was weak they would have ran into a lot of trouble.

No one has drowned thankfully but there have been a few close calls.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/warning-over-frozen-lakes-after-girl-falls-through-ice-2008213.html

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I'm convinced some people spend their lives measuring how dangerous any day is is, and to me, that's no sort of living at all. Life without risk, even moderate, walking on shallow lakes ones, is no life at all.

I agree, I love a bit of risk myself. I have done quite a bit of rock climbing and mountaineering, I have done a bit of motor racing and I get into the car with my gf . Believe it or not I have walked on frozen lakes too (Glenstal) but make sure I am only two or three feet away from lake bank.
Those people in the middle of the lake are stupid though.

ABEasy

h3000 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/warning-over-frozen-lakes-after-girl-falls-through-ice-2008213.html

Second last paragraph

That's cork not limerick.

h3000

ABEasy wrote: »

That's cork not limerick.

independent.ie wrote:

Meanwhile, gardai warned of the dangers on frozen Lough Gur in Limerick over the weekend. Last week, two Cork teenagers escaped tragedy when they plunged through the ice in separate accidents at the Lough.

They were from Cork but at Lough Gur.

RonMexico

Sometimes I read threads like this and wonder why bother warning idiots, let them find out the hard way.

Don't you just love how after a week of snow suddenly people become experts on frozen lakes etc.

It isn't even that bloody cold here ffs, go somewhere like The Rocky Mountains or Wisconsin in the winter and you will know what real cold is like.

Oh and there is a big big difference between a shallow pond and standing 50metres from the shore on Lough Gur.

Itsdacraic

h3000 wrote: »

They were from Cork but at Lough Gur.

No, it happened at The Lough. A very popular lough in Cork city.

h3000

independent.ie wrote:

Meanwhile, gardai warned of the dangers on frozen Lough Gur in Limerick over the weekend. Last week, two Cork teenagers escaped tragedy when they plunged through the ice in separate accidents at the Lough.

Itsdacraic wrote: »

No, it happened at The Lough. A very popular lough in Cork city.

Fair enough so. Just badly written by the reporters.

Itsdacraic

h3000 wrote: »

Fair enough so. Just badly written by the reporters.

Or badly interpretted

zuroph

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Or badly interpretted

Well the lack of a capital on "The Lough" would cause trouble. seems weird that The Irish independent would single out Lough Gur for warnings nationally, then in the same breath mention a different lough.

Kess73

RonMexico wrote: »

Sometimes I read threads like this and wonder why bother warning idiots, let them find out the hard way. Don't you just love how after a week of snow suddenly people become experts on frozen lakes etc.

It isn't even that bloody cold here ffs, go somewhere like The Rocky Mountains or Wisconsin in the winter and you will know what real cold is like.

Oh and there is a big big difference between a shallow pond and standing 50metres from the shore on Lough Gur.

Normally I would agree with you on what you just said, but letting them find out the hard way means that our emergency services have to put their lives at risk to try and get people from the water.

h3000

Itsdacraic wrote: »

Or badly interpretted

:)
No I don't think so, I had never heard of The Lough in Cork city before so when I read it as below it looked like they were referring to Lough Gur

independent.ie wrote:

Meanwhile, gardai warned of the dangers on frozen Lough Gur in Limerick over the weekend. Last week, two Cork teenagers escaped tragedy when they plunged through the ice in separate accidents at the Lough.

Maybe if they wrote it like this it would have made more sence.

Meanwhile, gardai warned of the dangers on frozen Lough Gur in Limerick over the weekend.
Last week, two Cork teenagers escaped tragedy when they plunged through the ice in separate accidents at The Lough in Cork city.

RonMexico

Kess73 wrote: »

Normally I would agree with you on what you just said, but letting them find out the hard way means that our emergency services have to put their lives at risk to try and get people from the water.

Oh I agree with you, it is just incredible the way people ignore these warnings from EXPERTS and put other peoples lives in danger. The old "ah sure it looks grand, they just want to spoil our fun" moronic attitude.

concussion

The people who let their children loose on a frozen lake (as opposed to the large puddle which is what the one in Cratloe essentially is) are the same people who will be ringing Joe Duffy complaining of the lack of warning signs and rescue personnel at the lake after they have to drag one of their sprogs out. In fact, it's probably the County Council's fault for not restricting their access.

wylo

RonMexico wrote: »

Don't you just love how after a week of snow suddenly people become experts on frozen lakes etc.

so the people giving out about it have better 'expertise' I suppose?

There are things that people do every day which are just as dangerous like the list the other poster made. Just this is the current one thats cool to give out about. The same people standing at the side of the lake watching on and giving out probably drove there and probably went a few km over the speed limit.

We use our jugdement when standing on the lake and decide to take the risk, just like you do when you go hiking or do anything else any way slightly risky.

We may as well stop people swimming at a beach, because that is more dangerous, statistically.

Mc Love

wylo wrote: »

so the people giving out about it have better 'expertise' I suppose?

The people like the Gardai, the emergency services, irish water safety. Is that enough 'expertise', for you?

wylo

sparkysrovers wrote: »

The people like the Gardai, the emergency services, irish water safety. Is that enough 'expertise', for you?

not being smart, but theyre hardly gonna say the opposite tbf.
Also that is to help prevent people that do stupid things like stand on thin cracking ice during a thaw.

concussion

People going swimming can judge conditions at a beach and make a decision to go in based on their experience (and no doubt helped by all the County Council signs about where to avoid)

People going hiking can look at the weather forcast and decide what kit they need to bring, look at a map to decide what places to avoid and, once more use their experience to decide what places are worth attempting with the conditions at hand.

Irish people have fcuk all experience with icy conditions, have no way of knowing how thick the ice is without drilling a sample, have no idea if it is uniformly thick all round (it isn't) and have been warned not to go out on it yet some people think it's an acceptable risk to venture out. Off you go, don't say you weren't warned or go off and sue someone for negligence if you do break through.

Your last point is hilarious, in the context of this discussion...more people are killed annually in car crashes than by mountain accidents and drownings, perhaps we should ban driving?

Mc Love

wylo wrote: »

not being smart, but theyre hardly gonna say the opposite tbf.
Also that is to help prevent people that do stupid things like stand on thin cracking ice during a thaw.

i know not being smart either, but if you have a deathwish - hope you had a nice life. I dont think I would have any sympathy for anyone that fell through ice on a lake when warned by the emergency services/respective authorities

topper75

sparkysrovers wrote: »

Is that enough 'expertise', for you?

All credit to expertise. However, I am pushing 14 stone and danced all over the shaggin thing yesterday - even the very middle was rock. I was determined to make cracks and failed. If 'they' are right, I should have gone down shouldn't I?

Believe me - I was right bewildered by it all. It was like walking across limestone flags. Never thought I would see such a thing in Ireland nor such minus temps. It's there to be enjoyed. Live a little.

wylo

concussion wrote: »

Your last point is hilarious, in the context of this discussion...more people are killed annually in car crashes than by mountain accidents and drownings, perhaps we should ban driving?

Thats my very point, I was being sarcastic.

concussion

topper75 wrote: »

even the very middle was rock. I was determined to make cracks and failed.

While you'll probably get away with being on a frozen lake, this has got to be the stupidest thing I've read so far.

ylo - this is only because there are a huge number of people swimming every year. The majority of people will heed warnings and stay away from frozen lakes, resulting in a very low (hopefully zero) fatality incidence and a correspondinly low amount of accidents. People will then put this forward as evidence of how safe walking on frozen lakes in barely sub-zero temperatures is. Don't you love statistics?

utick

concussion wrote: »

. Off you go, don't say you weren't warned or go off and sue someone for negligence .

QUOTE]

seeing as how none of them have sued or said they werent warned what are you complaining about