Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Play to win?
Options
Comments
-
-
Btw regarding the thread title and the pic of David Sirlin posted there by dreddy I think his infamous article should be posted in case there's people here who've not read it : (Ry, Sairus)
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
@ rope
I watched your vid btw, to me it seemed you had the guy down. Seemed his style was all about attacking with some lk's then backing off and punishing hard if you made a mistake. Although maybe he was fucking up his links looking at how some of his c.lks went into standing lks. He kinda looks like what I'd look like when I **** up on stick. He's constantly jumping over you to try and break your charge and trying to build frustration out of you so you mess up and then he'll punish hard.
However you don't take the bate and stuff him quite a lot in that match and imo I reckon he was more frustrated then you in the end
LOL @ the cheeky attempt to land that ultra on you after a whiffed srk, he was totally banking on your frustration but in that match you were the more patient player.
I could see myself falling for his traps if I was on stick for sure. I need to be more like sim, meditate, then destroy them 0 -
-
Cunny-Funt wrote: »Btw regarding the thread title and the pic of David Sirlin posted there by dreddy I think his infamous article should be posted in case there's people here who've not read it : (Ry, Sairus)
Too long, not bothered
0 -
Cunny-Funt wrote: »Btw regarding the thread title and the pic of David Sirlin posted there by dreddy I think his infamous article should be posted in case there's people here who've not read it : (Ry, Sairus)
http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-part-1.html
Read it before, but that was back before I'd gotten into SFIV in any real way and it's completely applicable to me now
A lot of the ways that I play SFIV are governed by an invisible set of rules I've created. I don't like throwing more than twice in a row even if I can, if someone keeps on using unsafe jump ins I won't always shoryuken them continually.
This holds true when I'm playing, if I get 2 throws in a row, I'll usually make some joke about it to take away from the fact that I felt it was a cheap tactic. If I win on chip damage I do the same thing, apologize for it. When I get message over GFWL telling me "I'm cheap" or constantly "shooting bullets", even if I won that match I'll think I do need to train so I can win by other methods that aren't "cheap". I start feeling uncomfortable if I keep using TP to break my opponents charge, even if it's working and I'm winning I'll stop doing it.
Then there's my character choice. I like Akuma because I like the character, his look, his moveset and his range of options. Can I fully utilize all of them? No. Am I a safe enough player to not let his low health and stamina be an issue? No.
If I was playing to win I'd pick someone closer to my abilities. Someone slower, with better health, easier combos that do more damage... etc. If I was playing to win I'd use whatever tactics work and keep using them until they didn't work.
I guess when I think about it, the origin of this is from playing games with my friends when I was younger. I learned quickly that if I won a few games in a row my friends wouldn't want to play any more. I guess I reasoned that I wanted to play the game more than I wanted to win at the game so I would purposefully throw every 3rd or 4th match to keep my friends from quitting so they would feel like they where winning also. If they said a move was "cheap" or "unfair" I'd try to play them without using it to stop them from quitting if I persisted in using it.
It is like a mental block, I tell myself to train and learn more moves to stop using the cheap ones. But as soon as I learn a new move and it proves consistently effective I tell myself it must be cheap so handicap myself from using it more than once or twice in a match. In fact, the moves I try to use are probably the most unsafe and least rewarding but I feel if I win from using them it would be justified, and even if I lose the person I'm playing won't quit since they are winning.0 -
Advertisement
-
Too long, not bothered
Really? Its about you Ryan Nah but honestly its one of the most talked about and referenced articles in the sf community and I think you'd like it.
The terms scub mentality and play to win come up a lot in the general community and this article basically explains the thinking.
It helped my thinking with regards to elements of the game and removed my own bitterness to some things. This was early on when I 1st started playing 3s.
I think you might find it enlightening anyway man, or you might hate it but give it a try at least. You should find it an interesting read either way.L31mr0d:
the origin of this is from playing games with my friends when I was younger. I learned quickly that if I won a few games in a row my friends wouldn't want to play any more. I guess I reasoned that I wanted to play the game more than I wanted to win at the game so I would purposefully throw every 3rd or 4th match to keep my friends from quitting so they would feel like they where winning also. If they said a move was "cheap" or "unfair" I'd try to play them without using it to stop them from quitting if I persisted in using it.
I have a similar issue. I find I can't play at my best when I'm playing with people in 'real life' as I feel bad if I start beating them. Stemming from years of my mates refusing to play games with me as I'd beat them in it, so I automatically lower my game a bit, for fear of putting people off the game. I've a few friends who enjoy Street Fighter but won't go near it now cause I'm good at it.
I find I play best when facing someone online actually just cause I feel I can destroy the guy without having to worry as he's just a character on my screen and not someone sitting beside me. Playing competitively against people in real life is actually very very new for me. lol
With regard to what you said about playing to win, you'd pick a different character, I think that's taking it a bit far. I look at playing to win just as a way of getting me to think more positively when I encounter something I may think of as being 'cheap' I'll think:
"there's some way to beat this, I just have to find out how"
rather than "Feckin bullshit cheap ass bla bla bla". But I wont take it as far as playing a character I don't enjoy playing as, just to 'win'.0 -
-
-
Cunny-Funt wrote: »Really? Its about you Ryan Nah but honestly its one of the most talked about and referenced articles in the sf community and I think you'd like it.
The terms scub mentality and play to win come up a lot in the general community and this article basically explains the thinking.
It helped my thinking with regards to elements of the game and removed my own bitterness to some things. This was early on when I 1st started playing 3s.
I think you might find it enlightening anyway man, or you might hate it but give it a try at least. You should find it an interesting read either way.
Yeah I hear "scrub" misused so much.
A scrub is not a poor player. It simply doesn't mean that.
An awful player who is willing to learn is not a scrub.
An awesome player who has made up rules about what is cheap and how his opponents play IS a scrub.
I like to think of scrubbishness as anytime you get pissed off with your opponent. You should simply consider how you defeat what they are currently doing. This is the way you get better. You can play a hundred hours and if you're playing by your own self decided rules you may never get better.
We're all guilty of being scrubby sometimes.
(Note- this doesn't count for simple broken game mechanics, distracting the other player, etc.)0 -
Ry's never played SF2 or has ever seen SFAlpha [omg, whos this guy character, OMGZ], so dont waste your time helping a lost cause
This is a good example of why your post count is rearing on 5000.
"Quantity over quality" is obviously your ethos when it comes to using boards.
Essentially, you're a boards "scrub" if the quality of your post is anything to go by vs the Quantity. 0 -
Advertisement
-
-
I actually did read the article Conor and I was just pulling your leg
I appreciate you calling me a scrub or bringing light to it but tbh Doom asked the question based on my appreciation of that "Dagger_G" Guile player and the fact that usually I don't like matches against Guiles and I answered him.
I think you've the wrong idea how I feel about it. I fully acknowledge the validity of using any tactic to win. That's fine but my point is I don't have to like it!? I'm not saying it's cheap or broken, I'm just saying I personally don't enjoy having to deal with it from so many Guile players online win or lose.
As Doom said we're all guilty of being scrubby and by that I think he means we all get frustrated being caught out by a repeated tactic or set play that's difficult to navigate our gameplay around, correct me if I'm wrong there Brian.
Also in an effort to draw some kind of valid point from Farz's trolling. I am new to Fighting games so I would admit I am definitely still wrapped up in the wrong "Scrub" mentality. The fact I'm a really bad loser is also a catalyst that helps me fall into it. I do acknowledge it though and seek to mend it 0 -
-
-
Man this article is sounding more and more impressive with every page I'm skimming through here XD Will have to give it a gawk after this post.
And to answer a question from way back, I've only been to one of the tourneys and a couple of the casuals. Said tourney was one of the first ones - only the core 16 characters where chooseable (Not sure if it's still like like, but eh).
If there's a casual or somesuch on this Saturday I might take a waltz down.
Yar, I can totally understand that, the brother I mentioned that I honed my no-more-than-2-moves-in-a-row game on has long ago fallen by the wayside as I've gotten much better than him. It makes playing him and most of my other friends very awkward as I have to throw matches to keep it interesting.I have a similar issue. I find I can't play at my best when I'm playing with people in 'real life' as I feel bad if I start beating them. Stemming from years of my mates refusing to play games with me as I'd beat them in it, so I automatically lower my game a bit, for fear of putting people off the game. I've a few friends who enjoy Street Fighter but won't go near it now cause I'm good at it.
0 -
Ryan no no I wasn't calling you a scrub at all. The 'its about you' comment was just to entice you into reading it. My reasoning for wanting you to read it stems from how many of our discussions on things that annoy you about the game reminded me of myself when I started. Reading that article early on helped me alter how I perceived things in the game.
The other reason being that article helps to understand the general SF communities attitude to a lot of things.
Basically if your into SF you should know about it as its referenced all the time.I actually did read the article Conor and I was just pulling your leg
Right, I'm gonna get my gen to low lk you to oblivion next time so -_-
hehe :P0 -
As Doom said we're all guilty of being scrubby and by that I think he means we all get frustrated being caught out by a repeated tactic or set play that's difficult to navigate our gameplay around, correct me if I'm wrong there Brian.
Exactly right.
God, you're going to hate when we do eventually fight
0 -
-
Also in an effort to draw some kind of valid point from Farz's trolling. I am new to Fighting games so I would admit I am definitely still wrapped up in the wrong "Scrub" mentality. The fact I'm a really bad loser is also a catalyst that helps me fall into it. I do acknowledge it though and seek to mend it
my point if obvious, guile is a prime street fighter character, hes been there from the start [if one considers sf2 the start], calling a well established character, broken[cheap], specially on the 4th series [with several previous editions and reincarnations] makes no sense.So by this logic half of Top Japanese players suck? xD
jk
i do hope you are joking, go watch some sf2/ssf2/t compeition videos. Plus its nothing to do with Rys skill level, read above.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
Doctor DooM wrote: »Exactly right.
God, you're going to hate when we do eventually fight
lol! Yeh to be fair, I'm sure you'll teach me a lesson but in essence it'll most likely be through proving me correct that you do it
I know that's not very fair to say at all really but honestly I wouldn't mind so much that style of play coming offline where things are all square it's mainly just online that I tire of it because I spend so much time there. If anything I'd welcome a high quality standard of it from someone in person so that I may practice against it properly to see what I could do to maybe combat it.Cunny-Funt wrote: »I reckon the next grudge match should be ryan and farz. Cept ryan plays as chun li and farz plays as guile :eek:
Man that grudge match has been played to death over and over at this stage. 0 -
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av7m_Pgt1S8
Advertisement