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Should all politicians wages be set at the minimum wage

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  • 11-01-2010 3:36am
    #1
    WexfordMusings
    Closed Accounts Posts: 170 ✭✭


    So,

    IBEC have been pushing for ages to have the minimum wage reduced so I think all politicians should have their wages matched to the minimum wage, I bet none of them would vote to lower the minimum wage then!

    Sean


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    #2
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Thats sure to get the cream of Irish politicians clambering to form the next government..........

    It will be good to be run by a politcal party formed from people who's choice of job was working on a till in a supermarket or running the country.


    Cue lots of Bullsheet along the lines of "better than what we have/mary harney is fat/Fianna Fail" etc etc.:rolleyes:


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    #3
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Just no, on so many levels.


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    #4
    EI111
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭EI111


    nesf wrote: »
    Just no, on so many levels.

    one simple explanation is that they would be much more easily tempted to corruption.

    It could possibly be one of the worst things to do and for much more reasons as nesf said, but the above is one simple reason


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    #5
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    WexfordMusings wrote: »
    So,

    IBEC have been pushing for ages to have the minimum wage reduced so I think all politicians should have their wages matched to the minimum wage, I bet none of them would vote to lower the minimum wage then!

    Sean

    I think he means if a politician gets 70€ p/h and they vote to decrease the minium wage by 10% then all the politicians then get 63€ p/h.

    I for one would be happy to pay more than they are on now if they where actually trained to do the jobs matching the portfolio they get.


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    #6
    koHd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭koHd


    Most of them have very tough and demanding jobs which they've worked and studied very hard to get. They also get abuse from Joe public for any cock up they may make. Don't be silly. Of course they shouldn't be on the minimum wage.


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    #7
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    EI111 wrote: »
    one simple explanation is that they would be much more easily tempted to corruption.

    It could possibly be one of the worst things to do and for much more reasons as nesf said, but the above is one simple reason

    Yeah it's the simplest reason for it. Low paid staff are the easiest to bribe and get away with it because the amounts involved can be so small. It also makes the person far less likely to care about losing their job since it's so poorly paid.

    Someone in a well paid job is much harder to bribe for the opposite reasons. It doesn't prevent bribery and corruption but it makes it less likely to happen and less widespread.


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    #8
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Zambia232 wrote: »
    I think he means if a politician gets 70€ p/h and they vote to decrease the minium wage by 10% then all the politicians then get 63€ p/h.

    I for one would be happy to pay more than they are on now if they where actually trained to do the jobs matching the portfolio they get.

    Or remove the "requirement"* for Ministers to be politicians and have them selected out of the professional classes. Still has many problems associated with political patronage etc but it's hard to argue against the idea of having someone well versed professionally in an area managing it.


    *Strictly non-TDs can be Ministers right now but it's almost never done so there is in effect a requirement for TDs to be nominated as Ministers.


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    #9
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    nesf wrote: »
    Or remove the "requirement"* for Ministers to be politicians and have them selected out of the professional classes.
    I'd go further, and argue for removing the possibility of Oireachtas members being ministers. There's pretty much no separation of powers between legislature and executive in this country.


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    #10
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'd go further, and argue for removing the possibility of Oireachtas members being ministers. There's pretty much no separation of powers between legislature and executive in this country.

    This would be my preferred option. Leave politicians to deal with local politics and leave the Governing to others. :p


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    #11
    Liam Byrne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    nesf wrote: »
    It also makes the person far less likely to care about losing their job since it's so poorly paid.

    As distinct from our current setup where they'll get pensions and benefits, etc, CONCURRENTLY WITH THEIR PAY even if they only do a job for a few months ?

    Surely that's as much of a disincentive to want to work hard to keep your job ?
    nesf wrote: »
    Someone in a well paid job is much harder to bribe for the opposite reasons. It doesn't prevent bribery and corruption but it makes it less likely to happen and less widespread.

    Jeez, I'd definitely hate to see our shower if they were easier to bribe and influence (not all bribing is monetary).

    I'd be happy if the condoning of ripping off the country was weeded out.

    But as for anyone who reckons you need to pay more in order to get decent people, yes, the "look at the current shower" comment IS a valid answer; an inept and incompetent government, and an opposition that can't even get THEM out or hold them to task.

    Pay the minimum wage and pay decent bonuses for things done really well.


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    #12
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    Ridiculous suggestion . .

    If the only guaranteed income in Dail Eireann is the minimum wage then . .

    a) we will struggle to get candidates who will even run for election

    b) none of our elected politicians will be educated to third level

    The result will be an entirely ineffective parliament. . and before anyone tells me thats what we have anyway . . . the argument is not a valid justification for making changes that will make the situation even worse. .

    If anything, we should be doing more to entice captains of industry into politics . .


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    #13
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    we outsourced everything else in this country,so why not!


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    #14
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    nesf wrote: »
    Just no, on so many levels.
    How do you measure market value of politicians? Most politicians I would say have negative value and should have to pay us instead for every hour the "work" as politicians.


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    #15
    97i9y3941
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭97i9y3941


    they get paid less in germany and they have a bigger population..


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    #16
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    nesf wrote: »
    This would be my preferred option. Leave politicians to deal with local politics and leave the Governing to others. :p

    Then who would select the Ministers, what would represent a quorum, from where would this quorum be drawn?
    Just playing Devil's Advocate, this would be a bit of a hornets' nest to get into.


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    #17
    hallelujajordan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,080 ✭✭✭hallelujajordan


    SLUSK wrote: »
    How do you measure market value of politicians? Most politicians I would say have negative value and should have to pay us instead for every hour the "work" as politicians.

    Your Dail Eireann full of people who are willing to pay for the privilege to sit there (i.e. empty) will be very effective at running the country . .


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    #18
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Fred83 wrote: »
    they get paid less in germany and they have a bigger population..

    lets outsource our Governing to Germany so :D


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    #19
    RiverWilde
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭RiverWilde


    What we really need to do is halve the number of TD's, get rid of the expenses and pay them a fixed (but decent) salary. Every penny they spend should be accountable right down to the paper clips at the office.

    Riv


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    #20
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    bmaxi wrote: »
    Then who would select the Ministers, what would represent a quorum, from where would this quorum be drawn?
    Just playing Devil's Advocate, this would be a bit of a hornets' nest to get into.
    It seems to work fine in the US.

    The Taoiseach is elected by the Dáil. The Taoiseach appoints ministers with industry and/or academic qualifications, who then face a Dáil ratification process.


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    #21
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    SLUSK wrote: »
    How do you measure market value of politicians? Most politicians I would say have negative value and should have to pay us instead for every hour the "work" as politicians.
    I actually believe I have a reasonable metric for this one. If the political class are doing their job correctly, average or median wage in the country should be at a reasonable level.

    So: link TD's salary to a small multiplier of the avereage/median wage for the preceeding year.

    In a year when the politicians have done a good job and the average member of Irish society is better off, they'll be better off. When they screw up, they share the pain. Obviously you won't attract the right calibre of person to politics at minimum wage (most likely the majority of those elected would be the verywealthy who could afford to work at that salary) so you apply a multiplier that takes the remuneration on offer to a reasonable level to reduce corruption and attract talent.


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    #22
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Sleepy wrote: »
    ...link TD's salary to a small multiplier of the avereage/median wage for the preceeding year.
    Isn't that a recipe for political policies that will encourage rampant wage inflation?


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    #23
    rasper
    Registered Users Posts: 795 ✭✭✭rasper


    Political positions should be one of the highest paying in the land, however it should also be one of the most ruthless career wise meaning if you f**k up and squander taxpayers money then like every other business you are gone , this does not mean sidewas promoted to the Seanad or other lucrative chairs. It means left in the benchs and hopefully voted out the following election, obviously far more severe measures for corruption.
    However the Irish voter has proved themselves time and time again to be too corrupt or immature to act with responsibilty


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    #24
    3DataModem
    Registered Users Posts: 3,998 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Sleepy wrote: »
    So: link TD's salary to a small multiplier of the avereage/median wage for the preceeding year.

    Jesus that's insane. The wage inflation in the lower grades in the public sector would be crazy...


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    #25
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Isn't that a recipe for political policies that will encourage rampant wage inflation?
    What use would it be to them? Wage inflation will inevitably lead to general inflation.


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    #26
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Sleepy wrote: »
    What use would it be to them? Wage inflation will inevitably lead to general inflation.
    With a multiplier, they will still come out in front.


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    #27
    SLUSK
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭SLUSK


    Politicians should not be rewarded for destroying their countries and economies, therefore almost every politicians doesn't deserve one single cent in salary. Cut back on politics, why do we need politicians anyway?


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    #28
    Sleepy
    Registered Users Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    With a multiplier, they will still come out in front.
    Good point, so the formula would need to be more complex than (Median Salary) x Multiplier. I'm sure a better economic mind than mine can come up with a formula for doing this properly but it would certainly seem to me that median wage would be a good starting point for working out what to pay our politicians.

    Or has anyone a better idea of how to pay politicians for performance? I'd contend that whatever the metric is, it would have to be based in some way on the average financial well-being of the citizens of the state.


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    #29
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    It seems to work fine in the US.

    The Taoiseach is elected by the Dáil. The Taoiseach appoints ministers with industry and/or academic qualifications, who then face a Dáil ratification process.

    How would this differ from the system in use?
    Presumably the Taoiseach would be elected by the largest party / coalition in the Dáil, he would then go on to appoint Ministers in the same way that he appoints members of committees, quangoes etc. and the process is ratified by the largest coalition in the Dáil.
    More jobs for the boys, just with more power.


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    #30
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Or has anyone a better idea of how to pay politicians for performance? I'd contend that whatever the metric is, it would have to be based in some way on the average financial well-being of the citizens of the state.
    I propose a performance review system. Every few years, their employers (that's us) review their performance and decline to renew their contract if we are not satisfied. Oh wait .... :pac:
    Everybody hates to hear this, especially when we're in a slump, but we do live in a democracy, we do have full control over who rules us, but we continue to make terrible selection decisions.
    I say pay them well, but have full accountability for modest expenses.


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    #31
    Alcatel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 217 ✭✭Alcatel


    lugha wrote: »
    I propose a performance review system. Every few years, their employers (that's us) review their performance and decline to renew their contract if we are not satisfied. Oh wait .... :pac:
    Everybody hates to hear this, especially when we're in a slump, but we do live in a democracy, we do have full control over who rules us, but we continue to make terrible selection decisions.
    I say pay them well, but have full accountability for modest expenses.
    We live in a republic, not a democracy. To be anal about it and to make a point - hands up who in the room thinks that if any other Irish political party were in power today, the problems would go away? The fatcat salaries at the top, for example. Keep any party in power for a few years and they'll all be at it.

    In order to change this you need a complete change in how Ireland runs. But in a country where the majority of people would do the same (take the fat salaries) if they had the chance and the position, it's difficult to get a mass movement to make any real changes.


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