The Defender thread

Bearcat

MOffet, your going to have to bite the bullet at some stage re your concerns.....buying 2nd hand always carries a caveat but that's life. Your concerns on the td5 engine are unfounded IMO. A fantastic engine that will give years of service if correctly serviced......oil leaking into the looms were an early snag.

101sean

HD springs and shocks would make it sit higher and it does have SVO stickers but I think that's related to the unusual van build with no rear windows. A moderate lift up to 2" can be fine (mine is) but it does affect some.

The TD5 is a very good engine although the electronics scare a lot of owners. It should start instantly with no smoke or rattles and be pretty leak free, check for signs of a diesel leak on the drivers side rear. If the owner will let you, pull the red plug on the ecu under the drivers seat and check for oil in the plug. If it's been well looked after and has early service history you shouldn't find any. Otherwise OAP has covered most problems but also look at the door frames and footwells. Been up for sale for a while which is unusual for a clean Defender.

Mech1, that's a very clean late 300Tdi and it's reflected in the price (it's a dealer I reckon). There's a demand for them amongst the luddites scared of the Td5. Don't forget you could be paying 13.3% VRT on it. Read the above and OAPs post for what to look at. At that low mileage and no off road use, expect the hi/lo and difflock to be seized, easy to fix though.

Moffett

Well, I'm back from Land Rover Friday, and I looked at three defenders, all 110 TD5's. Initially I found the steering to be a bit vague, but this was the same across all 3, with the lifted one been a little worse, but perfectly driveable. Something you would get used to. The brakes also didn't seem great on any of them, but plenty to stop if you press hard enough! i found the TD5's to be quite quick, 60mph no bother to them at all.
First one, oil leak at the top drivers side, dripping down the back of the engine onto the center diff. All three of them had this leak, which looks like a rocker cover gasket but I don't know. Started first time from cold, a little smoke, but it was a cold day. Chassis was rusty in places but out riggers were all there etc. No rust in the foot wells. Some light rust round and about, ex english autority and badly painted white. Interior was not good!..it was the worst of the three as regards rust but was tested for nearly a year. It was also the cheapest, so maybe you do get what you pay for.
Second Defender. Above oil leak, also oil leaked on the passenger side of the engine, hard to see where from. Plastic cover on oil cap was broken off indicating that maybe it has been pulled on and off a bit. Owner swears it doesn't use oil and he never needs to top it between services. Also, coolant spilled around the coolant resivoir where he had topped it a few minutes prviously. This could be harmless enough pre sale top up but once again, I don't really know...the chasis had some rust but was better than the first by a long shot. The car had been waxoiled but alot of this had worn off over time. I spent a half hout under there with a torch and it's good and solid. The are poly bushes and double springs with Monroe shocks whick all look pretty new. Goes like a train! there are some bits of localised rust in the drivers side floor etc. The interior was rough and ready but pleasent. i really liked this Defender. If I had brought money it would be on the drive now. But I didn't for this reason. Owner was able to tell me the red plug was nice and clean under the drivers seat. Either he has had need to clean it, or is an enthusiast and has read about it on forums..and he seemed to know a bit about them. Seemed like a nice guy, but he brought it to a garage for us to view it and we never got to start it from cold. Low range box works, didn't lock the center diff on any of these cars as wasn't really near anything loose.
Third car, day 1 Irish. The chassis is like new, honestly. Body work was good, but with a few larger bangs. This car had sat for a long time and had to trun over a few times to start. Engine pulled well, but sounded a bit harsh in comapison to the other 2. Big dent on passenger door which refuse to open ( the lever was butchered on the inside ) and no seat belt holders, yet it flew through it's DOE last week?..this car is in a large dealership and there is not much interest in it among the staff. Probably be the sort of yoke that will sell itself. Gear linkage was a bit sloppy. Was reluctant to shift into 4th...and would semi engauge reverse, you'd have to declutch and push the lever again to get it to go in. Interior was nice and clean but smelled like a slatted shed. Sales man admitted they had washed it a few times and could not get rid of the smell.. AA will not insepct any of these unless I bring it to them. I think I want the second one, but I'm taking the weekend to mull it over. I forgot to test the wipers ont he first two. The wipers on the third do not self park, should they on a TD5?...any further advice you might have based on the above is more than welcome. I suppose I was a bit dissapointed in the condition of the one at the dealship as it wasn't any better than the other two bar the minty fresh chassis rails. It's the most expensive too. Also the second car had a bulkhead and was nicely shelfed out in the back. So all seemed to go well on the road, but all had oil leaks. This could be just a Land Rover thing.

Bearcat

Great write up, thanks for your detail.....ropes gearboxes avoid.....they are clunky enough. Steering is vague in all of them says me......

Sean should have something to say on this

caprilicious

I'm a novice when it comes to Landrovers (I have a knack for buying knackered one's and the poor husband ends up fixing them ) so I'm probably the worst person to advise.

However reading your synopsis of the three you viewed, I think I would be leaning toward the second myself.

Second Defender. Above oil leak, also oil leaked on the passenger side of the engine, hard to see where from. Plastic cover on oil cap was broken off indicating that maybe it has been pulled on and off a bit.
Owner swears it doesn't use oil and he never needs to top it between services.
Also, coolant spilled around the coolant reservoir where he had topped it a few minutes previously. This could be harmless enough pre sale top up but once again, I don't really know...the chassis had some rust but was better than the first by a long shot.
The car had been waxoiled but alot of this had worn off over time. I spent a half hout under there with a torch and it's good and solid. The are poly bushes and double springs with Monroe shocks whick all look pretty new. Goes like a train! there are some bits of localised rust in the drivers side floor etc.
The interior was rough and ready but pleasent. i really liked this Defender. If I had brought money it would be on the drive now. But I didn't for this reason.
Owner was able to tell me the red plug was nice and clean under the drivers seat. Either he has had need to clean it, or is an enthusiast and has read about it on forums..and he seemed to know a bit about them.
Seemed like a nice guy, but he brought it to a garage for us to view it and we never got to start it from cold. Low range box works, didn't lock the center diff on any of these cars as wasn't really near anything loose.

I think if I was going back with a view to buy, I'd ask to meet him at his house so you could start it from cold. I'm not a fan myself of meeting people selling cars that have them already running.
I did recently when buying a scenic (because they guy lived in a rural location, he said it'd be handier to meet me than try give directions).
If I'd started it from cold I would have seen it was taking 2-3 attempts to get it going.
Thankfully it wasn't a major issue (engine full of coke/soot) and a good service has it running great.
However it could just as easy have hidden something costly like a faulty injectors, so was just lucky this time really.


Regarding him pointing out the plug, sounds like he could have been an enthusiast. I know when I sold any of my Capri's/Mini's the first thing I did was point out what are typically the problem area's (sills/engine mounts/sunroof surround in Capri's) so the potential buyer could see that the usual problems weren't present on my car

That was really disappointing of the one in the dealerships being in such rag order. Sounds like they're not pushed about selling it one way or other! That or they're hoping including the warranty will sell the vehicle itself.

It still fascinates me the rust you get on chassis' of such relatively new Landrovers, you would think after years of designing them, they'd build the chassis to last a bit longer!
My last Capri was a 30 year old & the underbody was in fantastic condition, not a bit of rust!

Moffett

My second ever car was a Capri!....was also good underneath having lived most of it's life in Ireland. It's getting the bodywork done down the road by the guy who bought it off me, will be nice to see it out and about again. I kept it for 14 years. I would never sell a car to someone with an undisclosed fault but it would seem that I'm in the minority. The seller seemed like a gentleman, but at the end of the day I don't know him from Adam. The one in the garage was not that bad, just not as good as the money would suggest in comparison to the others. The second seller also rang me back to see how I got on at the garage, so he does want to sell the car...and it would seem i want to buy it. I'm trying to sort someone to look it over which is proving surprisingly difficult. I can't afford another bad yoke. I've been having a bad run of late, but I'm till not just about to step into a ford fiesta if you get me!

101sean

Sounds like you had a good day and have checked all the right stuff.

Steering is a touch vague, but no more. If it wanders, panhard rod bushes or the steering box are worn. Td5 goes really well as you've found, the one that was a bit harsh could be faulty MAF sensor or worse, no way of telling without plugging it in.

Oil leak from top rear of the engine is rocker box gasket, they go hard and there's a big semicircular cut out in the cover. Could be sign they've changed the injector loom but reused the old gasket (there's 2 types as I found out the hard way!) They shouldn't have anything more than slight leaks, modern defenders are relatively dry! :eek:

Ex authority ones do end up a bit rough but will have been well serviced, can be a good buy if you want a base vehicle to make your own.

The second one sounds good and been well looked after, TBH I wouldn't worry too much about it presented warm but I'd still insist on seeing a cold start before buying. Coolant wise, mine always has a trace of pink around the cap but it doesn't use any! Double springs sounds a bit odd unless it carried heavy loads, new springs are cheap anyway if you had to change them.

The third one I'd avoid. Irish from day 1 probably means it's never been serviced and the DOE sounds dodgy.

tinofapples

Wasn't the 3rd car (The dealership one) in Al Hayes ? IMO they don't pay an awful lot of attention to tidying up used cars.

Moffett

Yeah it was Al Hayes, I din't want to mention incase I sounded negative as the staff were helpful, they just didn't expect anyone to view the car that day as far as I could make out. The amount of stock that they carry it would be hard to know about any of it. It is the biggest car dealers I have ever been in, here or abroad. If you want a particular car they probaly have one.

tinofapples

Moffett wrote: »

Yeah it was Al Hayes, I din't want to mention incase I sounded negative as the staff were helpful, they just didn't expect anyone to view the car that day as far as I could make out. The amount of stock that they carry it would be hard to know about any of it. It is the biggest car dealers I have ever been in, here or abroad. If you want a particular car they probaly have one.

Yeah some yard wedged with stuff. That's the new yard,the old was amazing in a way and an enviromental diasaster as well but you just wouldn't know what you might find down there albeit musty and mouldy. Fields of yokes.

Suckler

Had a test drive of a 2009 Defender 110 last night. Its a Manual diesel which is rare for this part of the world where everything else is V6 / V8 petrol Automatic. Have to say I loved it though. Very tempted to seal the deal!

101sean

Ooooh, very tasty.

Suckler

Suckler wrote: »

Had a test drive of a 2009 Defender 110 last night. Its a Manual diesel which is rare for this part of the world where everything else is V6 / V8 petrol Automatic. Have to say I loved it though. Very tempted to seal the deal!

Think I'm gonna bite the bullet! Had a good look at it, new clutch done before christmas, snorkel, roof rack, jackall and steering guard fitted, only one minor bump on the back corner ( Chequer plate is gonna cover it anyway). just under 90K Kilometres on the clock is just over 55K miles so she's nicely warmed up. The six speed manual is tasty enough at higher speeds, even the other half was surprised by it's poke!

101sean

Go for it!

caprilicious

Very nice motor Suckler, looks nice and tidy

Moffett, any closer to making a decision yet or are you going to have a look at a few more?

Moffett

No closer...I feel bad about the silver one, but somebody mentioned head and heart earlier on. The seller did not meet me at his house. The car has no sevice history. It's been for sale for nearly as long as he's had it. It seemed well priced yet noone else has jumped. It would seem either he is short of money or in a rush to get rid. As I said, seemd like a gentleman, but I can't afford to take the chance. I understand that any engine could go bang at any time, but at least I can say I did my best to buy sensibly and not from the side of the road. The one in Portumna has too many issues that I don't think they will acknowledge as problems. The wipers don't work, the passenegr door doesn't open the seatbelt hoders are broken etc. etc. I'm unsure if there is anyone with the correct set of skills in the garage to access or repair it. I'm going to ring these guys, this car was advertised with 'engine problems' for a time but is now advertised 'engine rebuilt'...
http://www.jnewmanmotors.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=687159
It's probably well out of my price range, if it is, I'm back to the drawing board. If anyone knows of a good Defender in the range of 4-6k please post a link. Would like it to be TD5 2000 on......I'll keep ye informed...even if I end up in a Tranist.

Bearcat

Moff, keep chipping away.....as mentioned previously a good td5 will last you a life time. My puma defender sounds like a transit as it is but there's a lovely growl off those 5 potters.

101sean

I suspect that one has had a hard life.

Hopefully you'll find a decent one.

caprilicious

It's pretty tatty interior for a 2005 from what I can see in the pics. I know they're built to be a workhorse, but we've had Defender's 10 years older than that that looked tidier!
I know the interior is only a small factor when it come's to owning a Landy but when you're spending a few grand on it you want your comfort too!

At least you're not stuck for it in a hurry so you can take your time to look out for one.

Have you had a look in the UK at all or is the VRT working out too dear on them?

Bearcat

A good place on the east coast to purchase driving lamps for my defender ?

banjolin

Looking at all the things that go wrong with defenders reminded me that I have an oil leak coming from the centre of my rear drivers side wheel. I took it to the garage a little while ago and the mechanic (experienced with Landies) said there was nothing major. They charged me for a new dust cover. Said some seal or other on the axel tended to weep (not leak, weep) and it was very common.

It may be common but its only recent with mine, a 2005 TD5 with 65k miles. I'm guessing the oil finds its way out there because I park with the left side on the kerb. I just checked it again and it is definitely leaking again. Is this really a common issue or is someone blowing wind up my khyber pass? I can't imagine the garage not wanting to fix it if there was something that needs a bit of work. I have read horror stories about whole hubs needing to be replaced.

101sean

If it's weeping from the hub drive member it's only a minor thing and I wouldn't panic. There is an internal seal on later axles to stop the diff oil getting to the hubs which are grease lubricated, some owners deliberately wreck the seal to improve lubrication of the bearings. LR fitted them to later ones in a vain attempt to stop complaints about leaks :rolleyes:

If it's weeping behind the hub, the hub oil seal is gone. Defender hub bearings and seals are a piece of cake to change and cheap with it. With a Td5 you need to throw away the bearing spacer and stake nut and reinstall the hubs with two lock nuts as God intended

The hub drivemember and half shaft splines sometimes wear as well and you may need to factor in new ones of them, again cheap as chips.

http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=10286

O.A.P

The oil seal in the hub is leaking and I have the same problem although on the other side . Its only a matter of replacing the seal and I bet he had'nt one in stock .
He is right in that it is a common enough problem and its nothing major, I have not bothered about mine for six months but then mine is only weeping I suppose.
The wheel barings are supposed to be packed with grease and maybe oil flowing through them can wash it out which in turn will cause them to over heat and fail. Get the seal next time your servicing it, its two hours work tops (an hour for a mechanic). In the meantime keep a close eye on that wheel.
What Sean said ^^^^^^^^^^^

banjolin

Thanks lads. Reassuring. I'll let it sit till tomorrow to settle and have the wheel off to see exactly where it is coming from. Been trawling through exploded diagrams of hub and axel assemblies and to be honest I shouldn't be messing with the dark arts. Though I'm sure as it gets older these little "issues" will be more frequent and a bit of knowledge wouldn't go astray.

101sean

You'll need to learn sometime or you're going to end up poor paying others to do it!

The beauty of a Defender, Disco 1 or Series Land Rover is that they are very simple and easy to work on. Even if you're not confident, there's plenty of advice like in that link or someone to help.

If you're not sure about the leak when you get the wheel off, take a picture and post it up.

banjolin

Thanks. Will do.

At the moment my problem is space and time. Nowhere to work and cos its my only car I can't afford to have it up on blocks while I tinker with it. But a Haynes manual might be a good start.

Mind you, I could end up poor anyway. It cost me 90 yoyos to fill it the other day and road tax will 1005 this year, so it could end up on blocks sooner than I think. When I look at the cost of ownership I get a 1000 yard stare and start to rock over and back.:eek:

101sean

I know the feeling!

O.A.P

101sean wrote: »

I know the feeling!

Is your 110 not commercial? If not I would push the 101 around the yard if it needed moving.
What a f---ing way to end the life of machines you care about, is it ever going to get better or are we doomed to burn all the bigger engines?

101sean

My 110 is a station wagon, need the seats so I cop the €1050 road tax. It was my choice made when I moved here in the good times, not sure I can keep it up! A number of LR owners I know are switching to Freelanders or cars for everyday and keeping a commercially registered 90/110/Disco for playing in.

Thankfully the 101 is vintage but I'm getting choosy which shows I take it to as it does 12mpg :eek:

O.A.P

101sean wrote: »

My 110 is a station wagon, need the seats so I cop the €1050 road tax. It was my choice made when I moved here in the good times, not sure I can keep it up! A number of LR owners I know are switching to Freelanders or cars for everyday and keeping a commercially registered 90/110/Disco for playing in.

Thankfully the 101 is vintage but I'm getting choosy which shows I take it to as it does 12mpg :eek:

I have been following your work on the 101 on a different forum and its made me a fan of them, so if I ever win big on the lotto its next after the unimog.