The Defender thread

Stonewolf

So, as I roll a bit closer to my big purchase (Early September) I've a couple of questions.

Firstly, how are "number of seats" defined. I was looking at circe £6500 CSWs in the UK and many state 11 or 12 seats (depending on whether the middle seat is in place in the front). I'm not interested in the middle seat but ... a class B licence is 1 driver plus 8 passengers max which would be 9 seats. Do Defenders have only 4 belts in the rear bay (thus making it a 9 seater without the middle front)?

Secondly, Are there any big gotchas on importing? I notice from VRT.ie that it seems to be much much easier now. I checked the cost for a typical late 90's CSW and it stated the OMSP at a curiously undervalued 2000 euro ...

Overall the UK market seems to be exactly as good as I expected and is the place I'm most likely to buy from.

101sean

Defender OMSP was discussed way back down this thread, a definite advantage with older ones!

UK market 110 SWs were only ever 12 seaters up to 2007 for tax reasons, other markets they were 9/10 seaters. Not sure from what date but they have 12 seatbelts as well. Mine was a 12 seat CSW but only has 5 seats now, I wouldn't like to have been one of the six crammed in to the rear end! It's still shown as a 12 seater on the log book though as that's what the chassis number says it is.

Since 2007 they are only 7 seat as side benches are no longer allowed and all seats must have 3 point belts, 90 SWs are 4 seat.

A pre 2010 station wagon will incur 36% VRT I think as it's a passenger vehicle but that's offset by the low OMSP. When I moved over with a 7yo CSW I avoided €3200 VRT as I'd owned the vehicle for over 6 months, that was 5 years ago

Stonewolf

Yeah the late 90s stuff I was looking at is about 750 VRT and a grand in road tax.

How much of a problem is the 12 seats thing on a B licence? Can I just ditch one of the rear benches at the dealers and drive it home? Will it affect taxing (making it technically a bus for instance) or insuring? What about NCT and (in the event of a particularly unfriendly one) Gardai?

The Irish selection was pretty poor last time I checked so not being able to source from the UK might mean going for a different vehicle.

101sean

It's never bothered me having a 12 seater although I'm covered by my license. Insurance has never been queried and it's been declared to them as 5 seat.

Privately taxed (sob!) and is NCT'd no problem. The VRO office never even looked at it when I imported it. Bit different now with it being inspected by the NCT centre, remove the rear benches and seat belt rails if fitted and I reckon you'll be OK

paulmclaughlin

Hi guys.

I'm considering buying a 1991 Land Rover Defender 2.5TD/TDI and running it on vegetable oil/filtered used-chip oil. I was wondering has anyone done this before with this type of Defender and how it worked out for you?

Also the asking price is €2,000, which seems a wee bit low, anything I should look out for?

First time jeep buyer so need all the advice I can get...

Thanks,
Paul

101sean

1991 should be a 200Tdi and you can run them on veg oil or bio diesel.

Rust is the big killer, check the bulkhead thoroughly around the footwells, pillars and top corners. Also the rear crossmember, outriggers and front chassis legs.

The other problem is gearbox mainshaft wear, check for loud clunks on taking up drive (there's loads of slack anyway but it shouldn't clunk). It's unlikely to be on it's original gearbox anyway unless it's low miles.

2000 does sound a touch cheap but OK for a scruffy one you don't mind doing a bit of work to. Allow for the cost of a timing belt change if there's no proof it's been done.

If you haven't driven a Defender before it may come as a bit of a shock and you'll either love it or hate it, there's no inbetween

Spares are very cheap and there's lively market in S/H bits plus tons of advice as you can see from the length of the thread I've shifted your post in to

101sean

Here's what a mild bit of rust can do to a rear crossmember, this is on a 00 110, mine in fact. Took welding hammer to a pinhole and kept going :mad:

O.A.P

101sean wrote: »

Here's what a mild bit of rust can do to a rear crossmember, this is on a 00 110, mine in fact. Took welding hammer to a pinhole and kept going :mad:

Jesus Sean would you not stick a bit of chewing gum in and paint over it. Tomorrow will never get here you know.;)

SafeSurfer

I have noticed "Business Editions" of passenger Defenders and Discoveries, classified as commercial vehicles available from a number of dealers with the VAT reclaimable.

Do the same rules apply, if for example I was to import a utility 110 Defender from the North or UK and convert it to a full passenger vehicle with back windows?

Does anybody now much about the new rules?

101sean

I believe it only applies to post 2010 vehicles and you'd still pay private road tax unless you can prove you have employees to fill all the seats.

SafeSurfer

I have had a 2005 registered 90 pick up for the past 5 years. Now because of having to taxi 2 small kids about it is no longer practical. In all that time it never missed a beat, started first time every time, great in snow and for general work.

I have been looking at changing to either a 110 station wagon, crew cab or utility wagon so I have room for the kids as well.

Then last night I had a bright idea that I could convert my pick up to a 90 station wagon and pimp it out a bit get some work done and really have a car for life.

I rang the CVO office and they seemed clueless, told me they could not give me a quote of what additional VRT I could expect to pay. They said only after conversion would this be calculated.

They said to check on the VRT website about the VRT due to import a similar vehicle and this works out at €2660, before any work, so this now seems like a non runner.

Has anyone any experience of converting a commercial defender to passenger?

101sean

It's a nut and bolt job, locate a safari roof, window side panels and a rear door, along with all the interior trim, take off truck cab roof and back and bin the tailgate and bolt all the new bits on.

I'd recommend a bulkhead removal bar and as it's for kids, a pair of Exmoor Trim front facing seats with 3 point belts (very expensive though)

You'd then need an assessors report (see posts a few pages back) and then go to the VRO office to be fleeced for the VRT and €1050 motor tax. Most conversions are the other way though.

There's a ready market for good 90s as they are scarce here, may be better off going for a Disco or a 110 Utility.

SafeSurfer

Just a quick question regarding rebuilding on a vintage chassis. Is there any issue with building a passenger vehicle on a vintage commercial chassis, or is this not a problem?

101sean

As the registration belongs to the chassis number here, no there isn't once it's registered as vintage. There are some genuinely rebodied early Range Rovers with Disco bodies but there's far more with just the chassis plates swapped, even seen a ZV registered Range Rover LSE :rolleyes:

The earliest 110s become vintage next year (if you could find a decent one)

Suckler

Just wondering if anyone here running a new Puma engine has experienced this:

Was driving recently when the engine would just begin to lose power and would barely drag itself along 60kmp/h with foot to the floor. Stop give it a few miutes then she's back 100%. It has started to do this intermittently recently and I'm stumped.

Though it might be cooling problem first; I'm driving it in the UAE where tempertures lately are 45 - 50 degrees. Another lad told me that if it's heating up, the electronics cut power before it does any damage and force it to slow down to cool off. This has only started in the last week or so, weather has been the same for since June. Temperature guage never goes above middle.

Someone else mentioned it might now be fuel pump on the way out?

SafeSurfer

I am searching for a defender to ferry the kids about, in place of my 90 pick up. I had considered getting a vintage chassis and rebuilding a passenger defender on to it but have looked at a few older models and there seems to be a lot of dodgy chassis about.

I have narrowed my choice to a 2002 crew cab 110 pickup or a 2006 Santana Utility. I have not driven either yet, just searched online. The 2002 defender has high mileage, the Santana has very low mileage but I am unsure about the engine in it, 2.8 I am told. Are the Santanas reliable? Do they hold there value in a similar way to defenders/

Any opinions appreciated.

101sean

Suckler, I've no experience of Puma engines (does sound like a self defence issue though) but there's a specific forum section here http://www.defender2.net/forum/index.php?sid=2f2ea6edbfc0aec69caef5aa6241b987

101sean

SafeSurfer

I wouldn't worry about high mileage on a Td5 as long as it has at least some early service history and appears to have been looked after. What mileage and money is on it? Overall condition especially the usual rust points is more important.

The Santana PS10 has an Iveco 2.8 engine (the current version of the vehicle is the Iveco Massif) and is more primitive than a Defender, leaf springs, part time 4x4, steel body, even more sh!te dash! There's no real dealer or parts support for them, they were sold in the UK by agri dealers and plant hire companies. Santana built Land Rovers under license in Spain until the 80s

Properly done vintage rebuild is fine but Revenue are getting cute to identity swaps, heard elsewhere of a Disco on ZV plates being impounded.

O.A.P

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I am searching for a defender to ferry the kids about, in place of my 90 pick up. I had considered getting a vintage chassis and rebuilding a passenger defender on to it but have looked at a few older models and there seems to be a lot of dodgy chassis about.

I have narrowed my choice to a 2002 crew cab 110 pickup or a 2006 Santana Utility. I have not driven either yet, just searched online. The 2002 defender has high mileage, the Santana has very low mileage but I am unsure about the engine in it, 2.8 I am told. Are the Santanas reliable? Do they hold there value in a similar way to defenders/

Any opinions appreciated.

No they dont. A copy or fake will alway be just that.
Either get into Landrovers or dont, not half arsed
There are a lot of landrover fans out there and most will help a fellow fan out if they can.
Its something that needs to be experinced to be appreciated.
Find someone that knows about landrovers to help you look.
Good luck.

tinofapples

Hi all , after 2 maybe 3 weeks of inactivity was gonna bring my 110 to the bog the other day but couldn't get her to "find" gear with the 4x4 in H. If I stick it into L she will move, have I done something wrong ? My last drive was outta the bog in not too bad conditions which I thought didn't necessitate L range.

tinofapples

Anyone any thoughts on my problem ?

Rovi

N = Neutral, so it's not surprising that it won't drive anywhere:


Between slippage/wear and tear in the H-N-L-Diff Lock linkage, wear and tear on the selector rods, and slack/movement as gearbox/engine mounts wear out (or fall apart!), the transfer box gear selection system is notorious for going out of adjustment and giving selection problems.

Try getting it moving (slowly!) in low range and slipping it from L to H, experimenting with double de-clutching and slipping the main gearbox into Neutral too.
It COULD be something broken inside the transfer box, but it's much more likely to be a linkage/selector rod/gearbox mount problem.
You'll likely have to open the centre seat panel or possibly even remove the transmission tunnel to get a good look and sort it out.
You CAN fiddle with this stuff from underneath, but you need triple-jointed wrists and a good knowledge of the component layout as much of it is out of sight.

SafeSurfer

101sean wrote: »

I believe it only applies to post 2010 vehicles and you'd still pay private road tax unless you can prove you have employees to fill all the seats.

Thanks Sean for the reply. Due to the N1 classification of the 110 5 seat station wagon would it be possible to purchase a post 2010 model one in England and bring it in for the 200 euro VRT rate?

Also if the VAT can be reclaimed on them here, then on production of an Irish VAT number could a UK dealer export them ex VAT?

101sean

SafeSurfer - The answer to both those questions should be yes but I'd check with the Revenue first!

Tinofapples, been away for the weekend at a show but Rovi is spot on. The linkage is a wobbly collection of levers and pins which need to be spot on for the Hi/Lo and difflock to work. There's also nylon top hat washers on all the pivots to take the slop out, these go missing. It's easiest to actually lift out the transmission tunnel to get at it all.

Suckler

101sean wrote: »

Suckler, I've no experience of Puma engines (does sound like a self defence issue though) but there's a specific forum section here http://www.defender2.net/forum/index.php?sid=2f2ea6edbfc0aec69caef5aa6241b987

Cheers Sean, have been looking through that forum for answers already, Thought it might've been a cooling issue.

Had the diagnostics on it last week, Fault code of Turbo overboost / under boost?
Reset it and went away, drove perfectly for 500 odd kms, then did the same thing. If I'm driving and she starts to lose power I can knock it off, restart it ans away she'll go again. Back in the garage today to try and sort it. :mad:

SafeSurfer

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I have decided that a 110 sw is the vehicle for me, just makes sense with kids and buggies etc. The 90 does not have a great deal of space and lifting kids and car seats from the rear seems like a bit of a pain.

I have seen a 2009 7 seat puma 2.4 litre for sale on autotrader in England. It is XS spec, fully loaded with all the goodies for £14k plus VAT, 75,000 miles.

I checked the the co2 emissions and they are 291 meaning an annual road tax bill of €2258!! So thats a non runner.

I could however buy the 2009 puma bring it in without VRT, pick up say a 1987 110 defender on Irish plates for about 3 grand, galvanise the sh1t out of the chassis and transfer the puma body on to it. It would mean paying €1050 annual road tax until 2017, when it would be classified as a classic, road tax of €50, cheap insurance etc.

I am not worried about resale value as I would like to keep it for 10 + years

Is this a runner or the stupidest thing you ever heard?

stock>

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I have decided that a 110 sw is the vehicle for me, just makes sense with kids and buggies etc. The 90 does not have a great deal of space and lifting kids and car seats from the rear seems like a bit of a pain.

I have seen a 2009 7 seat puma 2.4 litre for sale on autotrader in England. It is XS spec, fully loaded with all the goodies for £14k plus VAT, 75,000 miles.

I checked the the co2 emissions and they are 291 meaning an annual road tax bill of €2258!! So thats a non runner.

I could however buy the 2009 puma bring it in without VRT, pick up say a 1987 110 defender on Irish plates for about 3 grand, galvanise the sh1t out of the chassis and transfer the puma body on to it. It would mean paying €1050 annual road tax until 2017, when it would be classified as a classic, road tax of €50, cheap insurance etc.

I am not worried about resale value as I would like to keep it for 10 + years

Is this a runner or the stupidest thing you ever heard?

As we don't have a points system here for vintage vehicles the chassis is the key part, if you have a 1983 110 (not a Defender) chassis and log book it appears that you can build what you like as long as it is certified for insurance purposes.
Don't forget that the rules changed in 1985 as regards commercial and rear seats. As I see it you have a couple of options
A restored series 3 from the UK with 200/300tdi engine and parabolic springs,
Early 110 and build it to your spec but not a ringer...for me that would be a 200/300 tdi spec as there would be no ECU headaches to worry about.
A Range Rover and fit a diesel engine from a discovery as long as it is a vintage RR that is.........

I will warn you there is a huge amount of work in a rebuild even transferring to a chassis................


As an additional thought one could guy the likes of this
Rangie classic

and fit an ES 300tdi spec disco body and engine to it.........

Mycroft H

Rovi wrote: »

N = Neutral, so it's not surprising that it won't drive anywhere:


Between slippage/wear and tear in the H-N-L-Diff Lock linkage, wear and tear on the selector rods, and slack/movement as gearbox/engine mounts wear out (or fall apart!), the transfer box gear selection system is notorious for going out of adjustment and giving selection problems.

Try getting it moving (slowly!) in low range and slipping it from L to H, experimenting with double de-clutching and slipping the main gearbox into Neutral too.
It COULD be something broken inside the transfer box, but it's much more likely to be a linkage/selector rod/gearbox mount problem.
You'll likely have to open the centre seat panel or possibly even remove the transmission tunnel to get a good look and sort it out.
You CAN fiddle with this stuff from underneath, but you need triple-jointed wrists and a good knowledge of the component layout as much of it is out of sight.

It's a common problem on Defenders that never move out of the H on the transfer box where the mechanism becomes stiff and the linkages can't handle the torque required to move between the ranges and end up splitting.

They can be replaced from the hatch in the cab but you need the flexibility and the size of a small child

SafeSurfer

I have been trying to use Revenue's online VRT calculator to estimate the VRT on importing a 110 sw 2011 from the UK. All 110 since 2011 have an N1 light goods designation but the online calculator only gives me 2 options for body type, van or crewcab. The VRT on these for a 2011 import is around €2,643.

I will have to ring the office for clarification.

SafeSurfer

101sean wrote: »

SafeSurfer - The answer to both those questions should be yes but I'd check with the Revenue first!

Tinofapples, been away for the weekend at a show but Rovi is spot on. The linkage is a wobbly collection of levers and pins which need to be spot on for the Hi/Lo and difflock to work. There's also nylon top hat washers on all the pivots to take the slop out, these go missing. It's easiest to actually lift out the transmission tunnel to get at it all.

It seems the answer to reclaiming VAT is yes but the VRT is €2643. A much higher spec is available in the UK. I have been quoted €45,000 including VAT for a new 110 5 seater here with some "extras" metallic paint, ABS, upgraded seats etc. The very base model, with 4 wheels and a steering wheel, even a tow bar is extra, costs €35,000 including VAT.

Do you think it would be an option to buy the basic model, with maybe metallic paint and improve it, eg upgrade seats etc over time?

Only being offered 5 to 6k on a mint 05 pick up with alloys etc.