WPP1 / WPP2

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

So many things wrong with that statement.

• First of all, an increasing ratio wouldn't show that, since the total amount of 'real' jobs could well still be increasing
• It doesn't take into account the fact that 'real' jobs would have a much higher rate of turnover than the WPP positions, many of which have been on the site for months
• A company advertising a WPP position is no indication of whether they would be advertising a permanent position if it didn't exist
• If a company would have been advertising a permanent position if it didn't exist, it doesn't take into account the very high probability that they would take on the participant at the end of the placement
• It doesn't even consider what the stats are for other jobs sites which would be overwhelmingly dominated by 'real' jobs

rubbish, a ratio because its a RATIO automatically accounts for increases or decreases in overall jobs figures.

At what % would you be happy that WPP jobs have replaced real jobs? 75%? 100% ? would you agree if it were at 100%?

You some joker are you trying to take on people for your own business under the WPP scheme? Is that why your defending this scam throughout the thread? Or are you a troll?

Someone works for you and helps you make a profit they share in the profit by being paid - anything else goes against this simple rule

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

rubbish, a ratio because its a RATIO automatically accounts for increases or decreases in overall jobs figures

So of the 5 things I pointed out that were wrong about you using that stat as 'proof', you picked one of them. And still got it wrong. It's a ratio of one type of job to another, not to a possible number of total jobs. If there were 1,000 real jobs and 1,000 WPP positions on the list today, and 10,000 of each tomorrow, there would be 9000 new 'real' jobs, yet the ratio would still be 1:1.

Deleted User wrote: »

At what % would you be happy that WPP jobs have replaced real jobs? 75%? 100% ? would you agree if it were at 100%?

If it were at 3:1 or higher, that may be indicative of something, but would certainly not be proof of anything due to dozens of other factors that you just completely ignore.

Deleted User wrote: »

You some joker are you trying to take on people for your own business under the WPP scheme? Is that why your defending this scam throughout the thread? Or are you a troll?

Actually, I'm a graduate who got a great opportunity through the WPP, and now am almost certain of a full-time position at the end of the placement. What's your experience with the WPP? Or are you just attacking it with no basis in reality and popping up with ridiculous statements like "it's legalised slavery"?

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone works for you and helps you make a profit they share in the profit by being paid - anything else goes against this simple rule

Simple rule? Defined by who? So you think that every unpaid internship or work experience placement in the world is useless and should be stopped? I'm doing it because I get experience which, at this stage in my career, is more valuable in the long-term than money

Metal Head Hunter

OK can someone please help me out with this cause i'm just a bit confused!I'll be graduating at the end of the month, with (hopefully) a 1st in a Business Management course from NUIM (definitely at least a 2-1). Now can someone please tell me:

(1) Do I have to wait until graduation (september time) to apply for a WPP1 job?

(2) If I just went straight into a WPP1 job i'd get paid nothing right?In order to earn any money i'd have to sign up for jobseekers allowance as soon as I finish my exams yeah, and then i'd continue getting that allowance throughout the placement.

(3) And finally....what exactly would I be getting a week in total then anyways?I'm a 20 year old male who doesn't live with the parents by the way in case that matters.

Also just to weigh in on the discussion, while I think it sounds like a good oppurtunity I really think people on the scheme should be on at least minimum wage (i.e the company adds to your dole or whatever in order to bring it up to minimum hourly rate) and also that anyone with experience shouldn't be allowed to apply, otherwise it defeats the point of the scheme. Thanks for any help with my questions that anyone can give!

28064212

Metal Head Hunter wrote: »

(1) Do I have to wait until graduation (september time) to apply for a WPP1 job?

No, you can apply as soon as you leave college

Metal Head Hunter wrote: »

(2) If I just went straight into a WPP1 job i'd get paid nothing right?In order to earn any money i'd have to sign up for jobseekers allowance as soon as I finish my exams yeah, and then i'd continue getting that allowance throughout the placement.

Correct.

Metal Head Hunter wrote: »

(3) And finally....what exactly would I be getting a week in total then anyways?I'm a 20 year old male who doesn't live with the parents by the way in case that matters.

According to this, €100. You may be eligible for other benefits though

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

So of the 5 things I pointed out that were wrong about you using that stat as 'proof', you picked one of them. And still got it wrong. It's a ratio of one type of job to another, not to a possible number of total jobs. If there were 1,000 real jobs and 1,000 WPP positions on the list today, and 10,000 of each tomorrow, there would be 9000 new 'real' jobs, yet the ratio would still be 1:1.

If it were at 3:1 or higher, that may be indicative of something, but would certainly not be proof of anything due to dozens of other factors that you just completely ignore.

Well your not doing anything with maths in it are ya :rolleyes:

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

Well your not doing anything with maths in it are ya :rolleyes:

So you have no argument for any of the points I made? Please feel free to point out the flaw in my maths. And while you're at it, see if you can address any of the other points I made about your 'conclusive' statistic

28064212

28064212 wrote: »

So you have no argument for any of the points I made? Please feel free to point out the flaw in my maths. And while you're at it, see if you can address any of the other points I made about your 'conclusive' statistic

its really as simple as an increasing ratio

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

its really as simple as an increasing ratio

It's really not, and just saying the same thing over and over doesn't make it so

Richy06

Quick question or two for ye....

I've just finished college, with which I should get a 2-1 in Audio & Video Production (with the emphasis on video mainly) and I am in the process of applying for a WPP1 position in Dublin.

I have moved home to Cork from where I was in college and am living with my parents. I understand you keep your social welfare payments if you get the position, but seeing as how I am living with my parents and am 23 (24 in September), my payments will be significantly reduced.

However, the position I am applying for is in Dublin. I would have to move to Dublin obviously but the 90 odd euro a week I would likely get would not be sufficient to survive in Dublin, but I could do it on the full payment. My min question is; would my means and payment from the social welfare be reassesed, considering they will have changed?

I posed this question to some staff in the FAS office in Cork and the Social Welfare office in Cobh (where I live and will be making my claim) and got conflicting answers.
The FAS guys seemed to think I wouldn't have my means reassessed and the Social Welfare (who really didn't seem to have a clue as to what I was wondering) said I would of course be entitled to having my means and payments reassessed.
So now I don't know what the hell to think!

I have a meeting with the employer on Friday in Dublin, he seems interested.
For the record, I think this is a pretty good opportunity as this kind of position is something that would have been very hard to come by in the line of work I want to go into.
Thanks in advance for any replies.

28064212

Richy06 wrote: »

I posed this question to some staff in the FAS office in Cork and the Social Welfare office in Cobh (where I live and will be making my claim) and got conflicting answers.
The FAS guys seemed to think I wouldn't have my means reassessed and the Social Welfare (who really didn't seem to have a clue as to what I was wondering) said I would of course be entitled to having my means and payments reassessed.
So now I don't know what the hell to think!

The Welfare Office is most likely to be right. Fás don't have anything to do with your payments other than allowing you to keep them on the WPP, your means test is nothing to do with them

Richy06

Yeah that's what I was thinking myself. Hopefully it all goes well!
Massive opportunity that in all likelyhood I would have been waiting a while to get otherwise.

eclectichoney

28064212 wrote: »

The Welfare Office is most likely to be right. Fás don't have anything to do with your payments other than allowing you to keep them on the WPP, your means test is nothing to do with them

This is spot on and something so many people (not doing the wpp) don't seem to get. People have it in their head you get some training allowance from Fas like with their other programmes etc. Fas have nothing to do with the payment - they basically just arrange the placement and couldn't care less whethere or not you qualify for JA - that's completely separate and done by SW. And unsurprisingyl, I have found there is no communication between both organisations! :rolleyes:

Good luck with it

clarelad

is anyone here doing WPP being paid by their employer?

baloonatic

Hi All,

My company in park west (Dublin) are offering a 6month internship in the accounts dept under the WPP1 Scheme. We're offering really good experience but haven't been able to find the right candidate. If anyone's interested shoot me a PM.

Steve

HIB

Had to post this ... quite cross:mad:
I saw this on the FAS website. This company in Cork (Glantreo) want a chemist trained to PhD level to research for them, for free, for nine months.
So I take it the grand government plan is to create a knowledge 'economy' where the 'best and brightest' work for free?


Source: Employer / Job created on :- 20100520 / Job Updated on :- 20100520 Research Chemist (WPP1)

Job Reference: JB548889Description:
Area of activity offered: the candidate will join Glantreo s dynamic Silica Research Group. The group has expertise in developing novel materials for HPLC. The work will involve the preparation of porous silica materials, HPLC testing, materials characterisation and optimisation. Elements of experience offered: silica synthesis; reaction scale-up; reaction kinetics; reactor design; HPLC; process modelling; project management; technology transfer. Person specification: PhD in Chemistry or BSC Chemical Engineering; good laboratory skills; excellent presentation and communication skills. No. of Jobs:1Contract type: Other / Full TimeDays per week: -Hours per week: 38Daily Hours: -Start date: To be advised End date: 9 months from start

28064212

HIB wrote: »

Had to post this ... quite cross:mad:
I saw this on the FAS website. This company in Cork (Glantreo) want a chemist trained to PhD level to research for them, for free, for nine months.
So I take it the grand government plan is to create a knowledge 'economy' where the 'best and brightest' work for free?


Source: Employer / Job created on :- 20100520 / Job Updated on :- 20100520 Research Chemist (WPP1)

Job Reference: JB548889Description:
Area of activity offered: the candidate will join Glantreo s dynamic Silica Research Group. The group has expertise in developing novel materials for HPLC. The work will involve the preparation of porous silica materials, HPLC testing, materials characterisation and optimisation. Elements of experience offered: silica synthesis; reaction scale-up; reaction kinetics; reactor design; HPLC; process modelling; project management; technology transfer. Person specification: PhD in Chemistry or BSC Chemical Engineering; good laboratory skills; excellent presentation and communication skills. No. of Jobs:1Contract type: Other / Full TimeDays per week: -Hours per week: 38Daily Hours: -Start date: To be advised End date: 9 months from start

So in other words, they want to take on someone with no practical experience and train them for research in a commercial environment, at a time when the chances of a recent graduate getting a job are, at best, slim. Do you understand what the WPP is for? Or for that matter, what PhD or BSC means?

HIB

28064212 wrote: »

So in other words, they want to take on someone with no practical experience and train them for research in a commercial environment, at a time when the chances of a recent graduate getting a job are, at best, slim. Do you understand what the WPP is for? Or for that matter, what PhD or BSC means?

Yes. PhD means that you have 3-4 years of research experience. PhD students identify their own research goals, design appropriate experiments, carry out these experiments and publish the results in peer reviewed journals. Quite a few PhD students patent portions of their work. So, they do have at least 3 years practical experience. Most actually have four.

28064212

HIB wrote: »

Yes. PhD means that you have 3-4 years of research experience. PhD students identify their own research goals, design appropriate experiments, carry out these experiments and publish the results in peer reviewed journals. Quite a few PhD students patent portions of their work. So, they do have at least 3 years practical experience. Most actually have four.

And many of them have no idea what any of that is like in a commercial setting. Commercial research is completely different to academic research.

Besides, if the position is of no value to a PhD qualified researcher, they won't apply for it

billybigunz

baloonatic wrote: »

Hi All,

My company in park west (Dublin) are offering a 6month internship in the accounts dept under the WPP1 Scheme. We're offering really good experience but haven't been able to find the right candidate. If anyone's interested shoot me a PM.

Steve

I wonder why? Maybe if you paid a wage you might find somebody decent. Getting many monkeys applying?

HIB

28064212 wrote: »

And many of them have no idea what any of that is like in a commercial setting. Commercial research is completely different to academic research.

Besides, if the position is of no value to a PhD qualified researcher, they won't apply for it

I don't believe that's true. Whether the research is for commercial or academic purposes, the methods employed are the same. Besides, much research carried out under the 'academic' umbrella in Ireland is conducted with a view to commercialisation.

I do hope that nobody qualified to PhD level applies for this position, as frankly I think they would be grossly underselling themselves. However, if enough companies like Glantreo are allowed to offer positions like this, then I can imagine all graduate schemes in this country becoming work placement schemes.

Ace2007

billybigunz wrote: »

I wonder why? Maybe if you paid a wage you might find somebody decent. Getting many monkeys applying?

lol if i lived any near this place i would apply, 6 month work experience leads to a greater chance of getting a job, 6 months dole doesn't take up much space on a CV.

shoegirl

esween wrote: »

the outright winner in this programme is the employer as they get staff (whether this is a graduate or experienced worker) for up to nine months for nothing!!!!

I am seeing a glut of ads from companies that regularly hire entry level grads paying 18k to 22k now hiring on this for free. I really don't think this is what the scheme was intended for - it was meant for companies that otherwise wouldn't be hiring at all, not companies who want to save on salaries but who otherwise would be paying them.

28064212

shoegirl wrote: »

I am seeing a glut of ads from companies that regularly hire entry level grads paying 18k to 22k now hiring on this for free. I really don't think this is what the scheme was intended for - it was meant for companies that otherwise wouldn't be hiring at all, not companies who want to save on salaries but who otherwise would be paying them.

Regularly? Do you by any chance mean pre-recessionary times? Before the WPP, I had applied for numerous grad programs that I would have easily gotten into before the recession hit. Every one of them either massively scaled back recruitment, or cancelled their intake programme completely. Saying they would be hiring if it wasn't for the WPP is, at best, a complete guess

shoegirl

28064212 wrote: »

Regularly? Do you by any chance mean pre-recessionary times? Before the WPP, I had applied for numerous grad programs that I would have easily gotten into before the recession hit. Every one of them either massively scaled back recruitment, or cancelled their intake programme completely. Saying they would be hiring if it wasn't for the WPP is, at best, a complete guess

No, these are generally companies with high staff turnovers, they are also hiring at mid career level but still paying the same salaries. All that has changed is they are still hiring the same proprotions but entry level are now all WPP grads working for free rather than a low entry wage.

clarelad

is anyone here doing WPP being paid by their employer?

jimoc

clarelad wrote: »

is anyone here doing WPP being paid by their employer?

If you are being paid by your employer then they aren't WPP positions or else its under the table since you can't have a contract of employment in a WPP position.

clarelad

has anyone here managed to get full time paid employment at the end of their 6/9 month placement?

Ianmicks

hey everyone, has anyone who has not been on the dole for 3 months been able to get into a WPP1 and keep their social welfare ??

maninasia

shoegirl wrote: »

No, these are generally companies with high staff turnovers, they are also hiring at mid career level but still paying the same salaries. All that has changed is they are still hiring the same proprotions but entry level are now all WPP grads working for free rather than a low entry wage.

Very predictable really, the companies get to try out all new recruits for free for 9months. If they aren't working out didn't lose any money and on to the next one... That is the best scenario. The new recruit who did have a shot at entry level pay for the first year is now getting only dole money.
The worst scenario is they just keep turning over free staff. The government doesn't have a clue.

Jimmy848484

Hi all

I've been working in a WPP1 scheme job for the past 2 months. I recently received a letter from Social Welfare informing me that my JSA will be exhausted soon (in about 10 weeks). I thought I would be allowed to retain my JSA for the duration of my placement? Does anyone know if this is the case? I cannot really afford to keep the job and be on JB. I have all the expence associated with a job but I won't have the means if I lose my JSA.