WPP1 / WPP2

peterdaly

I spoke to my FAS Officer a while back as I was considering the WPP1, she was actually telling me its not a good system and most companies signing up are abusing the system. You could spend 9 months cold calling for a company and not get any training at all.

I think the idea people have mentioned in this thread of a company subsidising up to the minimum wage at least will work or also there should be some kind of Free Travelling Pass for public transport given to those participants.

28064212

peterdaly wrote: »

I spoke to my FAS Officer a while back as I was considering the WPP1, she was actually telling me its not a good system and most companies signing up are abusing the system. You could spend 9 months cold calling for a company and not get any training at all.

Only if you're a fool. Why would you spend 9 months doing that for free? Why not just walk out after 2 weeks?

peterdaly

28064212 wrote: »

Only if you're a fool. Why would you spend 9 months doing that for free? Why not just walk out after 2 weeks?

Losing Jobseekers benefit for leaving a job.

28064212

peterdaly wrote: »

Losing Jobseekers benefit for leaving a job.

You don't. First of all, it's not a job, the form you sign at the start specifically says you are not an employee of either the company or of Fás. Secondly, the company is required to give you relevant experience. If they're not, they're breaking the rules of the programme. You're entitled to leave at any point

jos22

can you apply for either wpp1 or wpp2 positions. only one I am interested in is wpp2 where as my education puts me in wpp1

28064212

jos22 wrote: »

can you apply for either wpp1 or wpp2 positions. only one I am interested in is wpp2 where as my education puts me in wpp1

Look under "Who is Eligible?" - http://www.fas.ie/en/WPP/Participants.htm

Dellywelly

Dellywelly wrote: »

I checked this with the IT people in FAS and while is may appear that there are more WPP than jobs there are not.

WPP advertised posts account for only 4-5 % of all posts advertised on this site since the programme was launched last year, a tiny propotion of all posts advertised.

The reason is that paid posts, jobs, fill very quickly, so they do not stay on the site for long. WPP posts do not fill as quickly and so they stay up longer on the site. I asked them how much longer and they said that as the programme was new and that many people did not know about it they left them up for 12 weeks. By contrast Jobs usually fill in a matter of a week or two.

They have more recently decided that they will advetise WPP posts for a max of 8 weeks from now on, and so they will be clearned down after that regarldess of whether they have been filled.

Makes sense. I gives people who are looking for placements enough time to see what is on offer. By offering this facility it does however make it look like there are more WPP than there really are, but I guess it is worth it to them if people get WPP posts that help them back into employment.

So there you go, mystery solved, there are not more WPP than jobs, never have been, and it looks very unlikely that they wll ever outstrip paid jobs.

jaysus thats some silly reasoning....."real jobs are filled up quickly" i.e there ARE more WPP jobs advertised than real jobs just like I wrote FFS

papachango

When most of the 'jobs' advertised now mean working for nothing via Work Placement Programmes (WPP), where are prospective employees going to look for paid work?
eg One of the biggest alcoholic drinks manufacturers advertise a WPP for a highly skilled and experienced Health and safety coordinator on the FAS website (Job reference - JB560144);
"Person Specification: The candidate will need to have strong OHS technical capabilities & experience, excellent communication skills and be a strong influencer/motivator at all levels of our business."

So experienced professionals are now EXPECTED to work for free in Ireland. I mean the new employees transport and lunch costs would not even be reimbursed via these WPPs. So they are not plausible for anybody to take up who has bills to pay, like a mortgage or a loan.
It is clear to see that the only real beneficiaries are the companies involved and the associated shareholders via reduced costs.
What are the only real alternatives to people looking for 'PAID EMPLOYMENT' in Ireland?
Are these WPP programmes designed to deliver a reduction in the live register via emigration and 'unpaid' employment?
Or are they designed to encourage mass emigration of talented Irish people?
What then for the knowledge economy?
Whats the point of WPPs? Please refrain from saying 'gaining experience'. As I have just shown that companies using the WPP are looking for candidates that already have 'Strong Experience' already.

What are your thoughts on the real reasons behind WPP?

28064212

Deleted User wrote: »

jaysus thats some silly reasoning....."real jobs are filled up quickly" i.e there ARE more WPP jobs advertised than real jobs just like I wrote FFS

Eh, no. Try reading it again.

Say (for example) there are 500 WPP jobs and 500 'real' jobs on the 1st day of the month and there are the same number of each at the end of the month. Real jobs fill up and get replaced much faster. Of the 500 real jobs at the end of the month, there might only be 50 from the 500 at the start of the month, which means there were 950 real jobs throughout the month. There might have only been 50 WPP jobs replaced, which means there were 550 WPP jobs throughout the month. So even though the figure at the end of the month shows 500 positions each, in reality there was nearly double the number of 'real jobs advertised

Ace2007

papachango wrote: »

When most of the 'jobs' advertised now mean working for nothing via Work Placement Programmes (WPP), where are prospective employees going to look for paid work?
eg One of the biggest alcoholic drinks manufacturers advertise a WPP for a highly skilled and experienced Health and safety coordinator on the FAS website (Job reference - JB560144);
"Person Specification: The candidate will need to have strong OHS technical capabilities & experience, excellent communication skills and be a strong influencer/motivator at all levels of our business."

So experienced professionals are now EXPECTED to work for free in Ireland. I mean the new employees transport and lunch costs would not even be reimbursed via these WPPs. So they are not plausible for anybody to take up who has bills to pay, like a mortgage or a loan.
It is clear to see that the only real beneficiaries are the companies involved and the associated shareholders via reduced costs.
What are the only real alternatives to people looking for 'PAID EMPLOYMENT' in Ireland?
Are these WPP programmes designed to deliver a reduction in the live register via emigration and 'unpaid' employment?
Or are they designed to encourage mass emigration of talented Irish people?
What then for the knowledge economy?
Whats the point of WPPs? Please refrain from saying 'gaining experience'. As I have just shown that companies using the WPP are looking for candidates that already have 'Strong Experience' already.

What are your thoughts on the real reasons behind WPP?

Look at the IBEC grad link courses...

papachango

Ace2007 wrote: »

Look at the IBEC grad link courses...

This does not answer any of the questions I posed. Just to reminde you;

"What are the only real alternatives to people looking for 'PAID EMPLOYMENT' in Ireland?"

Ace2007

papachango wrote: »

This does not answer any of the questions I posed. Just to reminde you;

"What are the only real alternatives to people looking for 'PAID EMPLOYMENT' in Ireland?"

well i've had an interview for a paid job last week and got a phone call 2day for a paid job, if you look enough you will find one.

you just read this

I applied to a WPP1 about a week ago and they rang me recently for a phone interview. The phone interview went pretty well (I thought). But at the end of it he said they had applications from people with 'more experience:mad: in the industry' and that they would be more likely to get the placement.


My question is, if you have experience why would you apply for an unpaid WPP?

robw017

If you are unemployed and have experience or not, you dont want to have a huge gap in your CV. Everyone says its easier to get a job, while in a job, so the person who will get that WPP job will most likely use it as a stepping stone to find pain work over the next few months, and most likely wont be there in the WPP job for the next 9 months.
I have a huge gap in my CV and find it very difficult to explain why I havnt found a job while at interviews.

maninasia

you just read this wrote: »

I applied to a WPP1 about a week ago and they rang me recently for a phone interview. The phone interview went pretty well (I thought). But at the end of it he said they had applications from people with 'more experience:mad: in the industry' and that they would be more likely to get the placement.


My question is, if you have experience why would you apply for an unpaid WPP?

So now the government is paying for employers to hire people with experience, what next?

28064212

you just read this wrote: »

I applied to a WPP1 about a week ago and they rang me recently for a phone interview. The phone interview went pretty well (I thought). But at the end of it he said they had applications from people with 'more experience:mad: in the industry' and that they would be more likely to get the placement.


My question is, if you have experience why would you apply for an unpaid WPP?

More than none is not the same as lots. Many people will have less than a year's experience, another 9 months is a great asset. Someone who has 4 or 5 years' experience is unlikely to be applying for the WPP

jos22

you just read this wrote: »

I applied to a WPP1 about a week ago and they rang me recently for a phone interview. The phone interview went pretty well (I thought). But at the end of it he said they had applications from people with 'more experience:mad: in the industry' and that they would be more likely to get the placement.


My question is, if you have experience why would you apply for an unpaid WPP?

at least you got a response I applied to few and got no replies from them

dan_d

Cool thanks.

Just found an ad for a job - one of the requirements was that you "must be goal orientated, with emotional resilience" among other things.

Who writes these things? To me, that means you get bawled out of it every other day! How on earth do they think anyone will apply for a job that's described like that?! (and no, it's not well paid and it does require a high level of education and experience)

Surveyor11

28064212 wrote: »

Someone who has 4 or 5 years' experience is unlikely to be applying for the WPP

I am soon to be unemployed, I have applied for the few jobs that are out there with no success to date. (Eng Degree, several post-grads & chartered with two professional bodies). I fired off a CV about a WPP on the off chance, and guess what had a call back offering me 'work experience'. Now, I have 16 years experience, and am totally open to new learning and experience, but considering a WPP with a government agency (yes, even the government is using this way as a cheap hiring mechanism) where I work for free, it really is sad what we've come to - not only are employers getting free labour, but our own government as well (there are at least 3 state funded agencies on FAS looking for WPP candidates). But, anything to keep me in the market and 'employed' can't be a bad thing, eh?:cool:

28064212

Surveyor11 wrote: »

I am soon to be unemployed, I have applied for the few jobs that are out there with no success to date. (Eng Degree, several post-grads & chartered with two professional bodies). I fired off a CV about a WPP on the off chance, and guess what had a call back offering me 'work experience'. Now, I have 16 years experience, and am totally open to new learning and experience, but considering a WPP with a government agency (yes, even the government is using this way as a cheap hiring mechanism) where I work for free, it really is sad what we've come to - not only are employers getting free labour, but our own government as well (there are at least 3 state funded agencies on FAS looking for WPP candidates). But, anything to keep me in the market and 'employed' can't be a bad thing, eh?:cool:

You have 16 years experience, what is the difference between that and 16 years and 9 months? I know I wouldn't be near the WPP with that amount of experience, unless it was in a new area I had no experience in. I don't understand what you have to gain from it?

donkey balls

Surveyor11 wrote: »

I am soon to be unemployed, I have applied for the few jobs that are out there with no success to date. (Eng Degree, several post-grads & chartered with two professional bodies). I fired off a CV about a WPP on the off chance, and guess what had a call back offering me 'work experience'. Now, I have 16 years experience, and am totally open to new learning and experience, but considering a WPP with a government agency (yes, even the government is using this way as a cheap hiring mechanism) where I work for free, it really is sad what we've come to - not only are employers getting free labour, but our own government as well (there are at least 3 state funded agencies on FAS looking for WPP candidates). But, anything to keep me in the market and 'employed' can't be a bad thing, eh?:cool:

as my aul man says a man willing to work for nothing will never be out of work:D who in their right mind would work for nothing with years of experience in their field i know i would'nt.

Surveyor11

I know, it's unbelievable that I'll be working for free at this stage of my life. As you may see from my username, the industry I worked in has collapsed. There are no jobs available, I mean nada - so my qualifications and experience are useless. The choices I have are pretty slim - emigrate (which I don't want to do), retrain (which I am actively pursuing) or try and keep myself busy in a WPP. I also have a few other things going (aprt-time work), not ideal when you have a mortgage and kids, but them are the breaks as they say. If you had of said to me 3 years ago that I would be breaking down someone's door to work for free, I'd have said you're mad. But them are the times we live in, as it goes.

robw017

If you do take up a WPP position, how do you collect your SW payment? Surely they would make it easier for ye and set up a direct debit. I heard that you have to sign on by post.

gollem_1975

robw017 wrote: »

If you do take up a WPP position, how do you collect your SW payment? Surely they would make it easier for ye and set up a direct debit. I heard that you have to sign on by post.

from my experience , eventually DSFA will arrange to pay it into your bank account by direct debit.

however you may need to approach them several times before they set this up for you (bring along your letter from Fas and your bank details ).

My "employer" was fine with me taking off early one day a week to collect my JSB (and to sign on)

jos22

gollem_1975 wrote: »

from my experience , eventually DSFA will arrange to pay it into your bank account by direct debit.

however you may need to approach them several times before they set this up for you (bring along your letter from Fas and your bank details ).

My "employer" was fine with me taking off early one day a week to collect my JSB (and to sign on)

a friend who took one of the offers was the same the employer allowed them off to sign on/ collect JSA. according to the fas tho you .your local welfare office will arrange to allow to to sign on via post. for the duration of the placement

Wetbench4

my other half is working in a wpp program at the moment as a legal exec. I'm working full time and we have two kids. I earn about 40k myself so the dole office says that she is only entitled to €10.70 a week. We are absolutely screwed money wise and don't know what to do.
After the mortgage comes out we are left with €300 between 4 people and our youngest is only 14 months and needs nappies and baby food etc. She only started about a month ago on the basis that she would receive full dole, but 10euro a week is a disgrace. She has a degree in law but no experience and this is the closest she can get to a proper law job(one that pays) at the moment. The wpp lasts 9 months and the employer says there is a good chance she will be taken on after the 9 months but he could be just saying that.
There is more money going out than coming in, with us both having to keep a car on the road, esb, heating, tv licence, back to school, television, phone, childminders etc.I had to get a loan from the credit union to pay our outstanding heating bill so i have to pay that back weekly too. We've made so many cutbacks that we're not really living anymore.
Have the social welfare made a mistake here or are they correct with their smelly ten euro? Why cant people get the full dole if they are working 40 hours a week for nothing? We both have old cars too, not the 09 and 10 cars i see pulling up outside the dole office. My car is 96 and hers is 00. Some days i feel like driving my 96 car in through the front doors of the dole office. We are completely stuck and can only keep this up for a month or two. We are currently in the process of appealing the social welfares decision which knowing those lazy, rude, ignorant bastards, will take about 4 months. What do we do??

gollem_1975

jos22 wrote: »

a friend who took one of the offers was the same the employer allowed them off to sign on/ collect JSA. according to the fas tho you .your local welfare office will arrange to allow to to sign on via post. for the duration of the placement

signing on is every 3 months now, so its possible DSFA will have sorted out sign on via post for me. I work fairly close to the local office so I'm happy enough to get the time off to do it in person when the time comes.

the_syco

Wetbench4 wrote: »

What do we do??

Google the place your OH is working in, and see has it had any vacancies in the last while, and also get your OH to check in the office, if anyone get sacked lately. See is there actually a chance of her getting hired (someone left and she was taken on) or no chance (someone was fired for your OH to do free work)?

sickle

Wetbench4 wrote: »

.
Have the social welfare made a mistake here or are they correct with their smelly ten euro? Why cant people get the full dole if they are working 40 hours a week for nothing?

The WPP scheme doesn't entitle you to full dole, you just get whatever you are normally entitled to. (eg I am currently entitled to nothing from the welfare because my partner earns too much :rolleyes: so I'd get no money if I took a WPP job)
If she is getting any sort of jobseekers payment she could apply for CE scheme jobs (over €200 for 19hrs work) or the back to education (which will bump her up to full dole payment)

Mini850

Wetbench4 wrote: »

my other half is working in a wpp program at the moment as a legal exec. I'm working full time and we have two kids. I earn about 40k myself so the dole office says that she is only entitled to €10.70 a week. We are absolutely screwed money wise and don't know what to do.
After the mortgage comes out we are left with €300 between 4 people and our youngest is only 14 months and needs nappies and baby food etc. She only started about a month ago on the basis that she would receive full dole, but 10euro a week is a disgrace. She has a degree in law but no experience and this is the closest she can get to a proper law job(one that pays) at the moment. The wpp lasts 9 months and the employer says there is a good chance she will be taken on after the 9 months but he could be just saying that.
There is more money going out than coming in, with us both having to keep a car on the road, esb, heating, tv licence, back to school, television, phone, childminders etc.I had to get a loan from the credit union to pay our outstanding heating bill so i have to pay that back weekly too. We've made so many cutbacks that we're not really living anymore.
Have the social welfare made a mistake here or are they correct with their smelly ten euro? Why cant people get the full dole if they are working 40 hours a week for nothing? We both have old cars too, not the 09 and 10 cars i see pulling up outside the dole office. My car is 96 and hers is 00. Some days i feel like driving my 96 car in through the front doors of the dole office. We are completely stuck and can only keep this up for a month or two. We are currently in the process of appealing the social welfares decision which knowing those lazy, rude, ignorant bastards, will take about 4 months. What do we do??

I feel for ya,

Sort of in the same situation but not as bad. Other half gets 80 quid a week from social welfare (because of my earnings) working on a wpp scheme working 40 hours a week as an accounts administrator. We have no kids to worry about but she feels worthless atm. She has a decent standard of education, but cannot get a job. Looks as though ya need to know someone to get in somewhere these days. Cant imagine how your OH feels getting 10 quid!!!!

If your doing a wpp scheme, you should at least get your full dole, otherwise whats the point? Its a ridiculous situation.