WPP1 / WPP2

jimbob29

I saw a Wpp1 job i liked on the fas website last Friday but today i can't find it, does that mean the job is gone?

gollem_1975

jimbob29 wrote: »

I saw a Wpp1 job i liked on the fas website last Friday but today i can't find it, does that mean the job is gone?

more than likely...if you managed to get the contact details contact the company directly.

gollem_1975

Mini850 wrote: »

If your doing a wpp scheme, you should at least get your full dole, otherwise whats the point? Its a ridiculous situation.

you're missing the point... WPP is intended as a work placement program.

in the past you would not be able to do a work placement program and keep your DSFA payment ( whatever that is JSB, JSA etc. ) as you had to be available for work and looking for it.

WPP is not intended as a subsidy to employers (though there could well be examples of employers using it to get staff without having to pay wages or PRSI) or a work-for-dole scheme.
Nobody is forced to do a WPP scheme its a free choice ( as far as anything in life is a free choice I suppose )

Nurse Who

sickle wrote: »

The WPP scheme doesn't entitle you to full dole, you just get whatever you are normally entitled to. (eg I am currently entitled to nothing from the welfare because my partner earns too much :rolleyes: so I'd get no money if I took a WPP job)
If she is getting any sort of jobseekers payment she could apply for CE scheme jobs (over €200 for 19hrs work) or the back to education (which will bump her up to full dole payment)

Sickle, the problem with the CE scheme is that it is limited in availability and would probably not offer a law graduate an opportunity in their area. While they do come in handy, IF YOU CAN GET ONE, alot of these schemes do not offer great work experience in the areas where a person would be best placed given the skill set that Wetbench4 OH seems to have! Also in relation to the back to Education...his OH has a law degree, so already has probably been through at least 4 years of an education already and wants to use that degree.

I think that it's unfair that people have to go through working 40 hrs a week for no money...are there not anti-slavery laws in the modern world? Plus there are no regulatory instruments in place to ensure that after the wpp period is over the company cannot ditch the person who worked for that time and go back to FAS advertising the placement under the same scheme again...it's fas promoting slave labour, think about it!

Nurse Who

gollem_1975 wrote: »

you're missing the point... WPP is intended as a work placement program.

in the past you would not be able to do a work placement program and keep your DSFA payment ( whatever that is JSB, JSA etc. ) as you had to be available for work and looking for it.

WPP is not intended as a subsidy to employers (though there could well be examples of employers using it to get staff without having to pay wages or PRSI) or a work-for-dole scheme.
Nobody is forced to do a WPP scheme its a free choice ( as far as anything in life is a free choice I suppose )

I don't think that Wetbench 4 is complaining about the wpp itself-obviously his OH wants to work, but think about it, if they have kids aren't there childcare costs and other costs involved in doing the wpp that are not being considered by either the dole or fas...

gollem_1975

Nurse Who wrote: »

I don't think that Wetbench 4 is complaining about the wpp itself-obviously his OH wants to work, but think about it, if they have kids aren't there childcare costs and other costs involved in doing the wpp that are not being considered by either the dole or fas...

There are costs and opportunity costs associated with all actions.

If it was costing them more in Childcare costs,transport to have one parent on the WPP then me personally, I wouldn't be doing the WPP.

When a couple with 2 children earning 40k, childrens allowance , €520 pa in JSA and 2 cars are struggling then I would be think the logical thing to do is for one of the parents to be in the home full-time (get rid of the second car, no more childcare payments).. but to be honest they need professional help not advice from amateurs like myself.

WPP is not a panacea to unemployment

tbh I don't think there is going to be any improvement in unemployment figures until wages come down.

robw017

As far as I know if you are in a WPP scheme, you are still on the live register. Just the govt has another statistic to have a good news story saying that 'although 450k people are on the dole, xx% of those are in WPP schemes which is a route to employment.'

in relation to Wetbench4, the WPP scheme does state taht is has nothign to do with the DSFA claims. The OH should after making herself a useful part of the company, talk to them and ask if there is a realistic opportunity of a paid contract within a reasonable timeframe.

Nurse Who

gollem_1975 wrote: »

There are costs and opportunity costs associated with all actions.

If it was costing them more in Childcare costs,transport to have one parent on the WPP then me personally, I wouldn't be doing the WPP.

When a couple with 2 children earning 40k, childrens allowance , €520 pa in JSA and 2 cars are struggling then I would be think the logical thing to do is for one of the parents to be in the home full-time (get rid of the second car, no more childcare payments).. but to be honest they need professional help not advice from amateurs like myself.

WPP is not a panacea to unemployment

tbh I don't think there is going to be any improvement in unemployment figures until wages come down.[/QUOTE

Why do you think that a family of four would be able to manage on that amount of money? If he is on 40k p/a then he is probably getting taxed at the higher tax band of 41%, that is net income of 23600k, and that doesn't include deductions for rent/mortgage, living expenses, utilities.
At least his OH doing the WPP shows a willingness to work and strive to get out of the situation they are in...and don't forget that the money they have after tax is to support 4 people, not one...so it's no easy thing to do!! Sometimes I wish that people would give a qualified opinion instead of being so begrudging to a families situation!!!

NatWW

Sure it doesnt make sense to do a WPP when you're not being paid but still have to send the kids to the creche. Im pretty much in the same situation here, not entitled to anything from the dole, husband and I struggling mad to make ends meet but Im still considering doing a WPP even though sending my little one to the creche will cost me 1000 euro a month.

From an outsiders point of view it might seem easier for the wife to stay home with the kids instead of doing the WPP but then, how are we supposed to get some work experience by staying home and raising the children?

Im currently changing careers and nobody will employ me because I have no practical experience in my new field. Then again, it always come to the same question How can I get experience if nobody is willing to employ me in the first place? Its a vicious cycle...

So yeah, it seems that sometimes the WPP is the only solution to add a bit of substance to the CV and hope that the experience gained might one day come in useful to get a paid job.

Staying home with the kids wont help me get a job down the line...

Its a tough call alright...

gollem_1975

Nurse Who wrote: »

Why do you think that a family of four would be able to manage on that amount of money? If he is on 40k p/a then he is probably getting taxed at the higher tax band of 41%, that is net income of 23600k, and that doesn't include deductions for rent/mortgage, living expenses, utilities.
At least his OH doing the WPP shows a willingness to work and strive to get out of the situation they are in...and don't forget that the money they have after tax is to support 4 people, not one...so it's no easy thing to do!! Sometimes I wish that people would give a qualified opinion instead of being so begrudging to a families situation!!!

how are you calculating the net income?
by my calculations http://www.irishtaxcalculator.com/ net income is 33k +

I'm doing a WPP myself so I definitely think there is potential long-term value in doing one ( the short term value is that you are keeping busy )

However If a family can't afford to have someone out doing a WPP then they don't need someone on boards.ie to tell them (that they should consider not doing a WPP)

gollem_1975

NatWW wrote: »

Sure it doesnt make sense to do a WPP when you're not being paid but still have to send the kids to the creche. Im pretty much in the same situation here, not entitled to anything from the dole, husband and I struggling mad to make ends meet but Im still considering doing a WPP even though sending my little one to the creche will cost me 1000 euro a month.

From an outsiders point of view it might seem easier for the wife to stay home with the kids instead of doing the WPP but then, how are we supposed to get some work experience by staying home and raising the children?

Im currently changing careers and nobody will employ me because I have no practical experience in my new field. Then again, it always come to the same question How can I get experience if nobody is willing to employ me in the first place? Its a vicious cycle...

So yeah, it seems that sometimes the WPP is the only solution to add a bit of substance to the CV and hope that the experience gained might one day come in useful to get a paid job.

Staying home with the kids wont help me get a job down the line...

Its a tough call alright...

12,000 p.a. to let someone else mind your kids so you can do a WPP ?! imo you are NOT "struggling" if you can afford to do that.

personal question - would you like to be in the home looking after the kids full-time or would you prefer to have your own career ?

theres an old saying which goes something like "nobody on their deathbed wishes they could have spent more time in the office".

Nurse Who

gollem_1975 wrote: »

how are you calculating the net income?
by my calculations http://www.irishtaxcalculator.com/ net income is 33k +

I'm doing a WPP myself so I definitely think there is potential long-term value in doing one ( the short term value is that you are keeping busy )

However If a family can't afford to have someone out doing a WPP then they don't need someone on boards.ie to tell them (that they should consider not doing a WPP)

Can I ask you a personal question? Do you have kids, a dependant or a mortgage? Would you like to stay at home or use your skills? You say that you are doing a WPP also, so why are you telling wb4 that his oh should give up the wpp? I am sure that they are struggling even if she wasn't doing it and as I said in my previous post she has spent 4 years getting an education, so why should she waste it??

Using that calculator, it comes in at 31k!

Nurse Who

Gollem, from the reply that you left for Nat WW, you really are not approving of people who are trying to better their lives anyway they can!!! As she said, she needs to fill a gap in her cv and get experience in her new career. A number of women, including myself, actually enjoy both being out at work and also with their kids...if a person enjoyed work before they had kids then a lot of the time, they still want to work after children and over the last 20 years with inflation both adults in the household have had to work...where have you been?

gollem_1975

Nurse Who wrote: »

Can I ask you a personal question? Do you have kids, a dependant or a mortgage? Would you like to stay at home or use your skills? You say that you are doing a WPP also, so why are you telling wb4 that his oh should give up the wpp? I am sure that they are struggling even if she wasn't doing it and as I said in my previous post she has spent 4 years getting an education, so why should she waste it??

Using that calculator, it comes in at 31k!

I'm not on here looking for advice. I'm giving it. whether someone wants to take it or not thats up to them..its free advice, i'm just telling it like I see it.

I thought I made myself clear enough.. if people are claiming to be struggling & that they can't afford to be doing a WPP then I don't think they should be doing it.

I see the value in doing a WPP long-term but if the problem is day to day financial survival then doing a WPP should not be a priority.

jos22

finally heard back from the places I tried. they said they need people with more experience . :mad:

got to love grad work placement program that wants experienced people not grads

jimoc

jos22 wrote: »

finally heard back from the places I tried. they said they need people with more experience . :mad:

got to love grad work placement program that wants experienced people not grads

Ring Fas Head Office and ask to speak to the co-ordinator of the WPP program and make a complaint. The idea behind this programme is to give people experience working in an area, not for the employer to get free workers.

AnnyHallsal

jimoc wrote: »

Ring Fas Head Office and ask to speak to the co-ordinator of the WPP program and make a complaint. The idea behind this programme is to give people experience working in an area, not for the employer to get free workers.

Do.

jkjhngk

jimoc wrote: »

Ring Fas Head Office and ask to speak to the co-ordinator of the WPP program and make a complaint. The idea behind this programme is to give people experience working in an area, not for the employer to get free workers.

well surely that depends, if you have a degree in business and go for a job for a chemical grad student you can't really blame them for not taking you on.

kilburn

I have just spent the last hour reading the previous 32 pages on the topic, as I am interested in taking one up.

Firstly, some people here really should read the other posts before asking the same questions over and over and over again.

Secondly lads, please try to be civil with each other, life is to short for petty squabbles and spats.

Thirdly, can we get more people who are actually doing the WPP to regularly update how it is going for them. This would be invaluable to others.

My own point of view, I believe that if you want to gain experience it is a perfect programme for you, if you cant afford to do it simple dont even consider it.

I do, however, have a question ! If you take a wpp and you are receiving a full JA payment. Can you take up a part time eveing position or a weekend job to supplement your income without being penalised? Has anyone any experience of this.

28064212

kilburn wrote: »

Thirdly, can we get more people who are actually doing the WPP to regularly update how it is going for them. This would be invaluable to others.

Not much for people who are happy with it to update. In my case: started, was getting good experience, company was happy with me, hired me as a permanent employee at the end of the placement.

kilburn wrote: »

I do, however, have a question ! If you take a wpp and you are receiving a full JA payment. Can you take up a part time eveing position or a weekend job to supplement your income without being penalised? Has anyone any experience of this.

No experience with it, but you will be penalised for it. The WPP is completely outside the Welfare department. There is no difference between the conditions of JA whether you're on the WPP or not, except for those specifically related to the WPP position (namely that you can work in that position and still receive the dole). The means test will be the same as if you weren't on the WPP

mossyc123

Am starting a WPP myself soon. On Jobseekers Benefit since Late August.

Apparently in order to keep your benefit you need to be in receipt of benefit for at least 3 months before you take up the WPP. (Not sure why, probably to encourage people to exhaust all options in terms of getting off benefits before they decide on going for a WPP)

Anyone know if I could get away with keeping my Jobseekers Benefit. Would the Dept Social Protection find out about my placement if i didn't tell them?!

robw017

Did you get a letter from FAS telling you its starting?
FAS office look after teh paperwork for hte wpp. But you have to say how long you are on the dole for, so maybe not if you lie. it wud be more likely that they wud disqualify you for not being eligible if you said you are claiming since mid aug. I wud head to the DSFA office and tell them that yer starting anyway. They need to change your sign on in person, to by post, and change your JB post office pick up to EFT.
Took them 20mins to sort it out for me cause they didnt really know how to use their system.

mossyc123

robw017 wrote: »

Did you get a letter from FAS telling you its starting?
FAS office look after teh paperwork for hte wpp. But you have to say how long you are on the dole for, so maybe not if you lie. it wud be more likely that they wud disqualify you for not being eligible if you said you are claiming since mid aug. I wud head to the DSFA office and tell them that yer starting anyway. They need to change your sign on in person, to by post, and change your JB post office pick up to EFT.
Took them 20mins to sort it out for me cause they didnt really know how to use their system.

Have went a slightly different way about it myself. Contacted employers directly with a proposal to take me on under the WPP so sort of waiting for the firm who agreed to take me on to sort everything with FAS (although its taken 2 weeks so far and the position still hasn't been approved / advertised!).
FAS lady has been fairly sound about it, very eager to get people on to the scheme. Contacted the DSP herself with a hypothetical about my situation. She reckons i'm OK to proceed with the WPP but wouldn't be able to keep the Jobseekers Benefit. Might chance my arm keeping the welfare but i'll probably just let them know and appeal if/when the payments are revoked.
Thanks!

gollem_1975

mossyc123 wrote: »

Have went a slightly different way about it myself. Contacted employers directly with a proposal to take me on under the WPP so sort of waiting for the firm who agreed to take me on to sort everything with FAS (although its taken 2 weeks so far and the position still hasn't been approved / advertised!).
FAS lady has been fairly sound about it, very eager to get people on to the scheme. Contacted the DSP herself with a hypothetical about my situation. She reckons i'm OK to proceed with the WPP but wouldn't be able to keep the Jobseekers Benefit. Might chance my arm keeping the welfare but i'll probably just let them know and appeal if/when the payments are revoked.
Thanks!

if you are on JSB you are entitled to get it for about 13 months afaik ( and I suspect JSB is going to be cut in December ) so if you don't get a job at the end of the 9 months WPP you still (under the current regime) can claim JSB for another 9 months or so.

hold onto your JSB if you can.. even if it means telling the employer that you can't start the job until you've been on it for another month ( they're getting you for nothing they can wait another month)

alternatively just keep signing on..i.e. don't tell DSFA that you've started your WPP until you've been signing on for 3 months ( you only have to sign on every 3 months anyway so I don't see a problem there)

robw017

mossyc123 wrote: »

Have went a slightly different way about it myself. Contacted employers directly with a proposal to take me on under the WPP so sort of waiting for the firm who agreed to take me on to sort everything with FAS (although its taken 2 weeks so far and the position still hasn't been approved / advertised!).
FAS lady has been fairly sound about it, very eager to get people on to the scheme. Contacted the DSP herself with a hypothetical about my situation. She reckons i'm OK to proceed with the WPP but wouldn't be able to keep the Jobseekers Benefit. Might chance my arm keeping the welfare but i'll probably just let them know and appeal if/when the payments are revoked.
Thanks!

Well they kinda have no grounds to take the JB away from you since you wont be getting paid in the WPP. Im sure you cud jst 'volunteer' at the firm for the 6 weeks until you are eligible for the WPP like. Volunteer work isnt frowned upon while on SW assistance whether its JB or JA.

gollem_1975

robw017 wrote: »

Well they kinda have no grounds to take the JB away from you since you wont be getting paid in the WPP. Im sure you cud jst 'volunteer' at the firm for the 6 weeks until you are eligible for the WPP like. Volunteer work isnt frowned upon while on SW assistance whether its JB or JA.

you'd think that but you MIGHT be wrong in assuming that..

The WPP is very much a new kid on the block.

previously (in principle anyway, i'm not sure how it was applied in practice) you had to be actively seeking work in order to get unemployement assistance or unemployment benefit ( now known as JSB and JSA )

therefore if you were doing an unpaid internship or voluntary job you were not entitled to claim JSA or JSB.

robw017

Well I was doing voluntary work, told my local office and they said its fine as long as I wasnt getting paid.
It didnt stop me from applying for jobs and attending interviews.

gollem_1975

robw017 wrote: »

Well I was doing voluntary work, told my local office and they said its fine as long as I wasnt getting paid.
It didnt stop me from applying for jobs and attending interviews.

again, I suspect this could be a new development or else a response to the fact that DSFA have more to worry about now with 450,000 on the live register to be chasing up people doing voluntary work when they should be looking for work (full-time)

but if this has always been the case then I stand corrected.

mossyc123

At this rate it'll be a fair while till the Placement starts anyway so the 3-month thing mighn't even be an issue. Will take it as it comes anyway, thanks for the input lads.

eclectichoney

gollem_1975 wrote: »

again, I suspect this could be a new development or else a response to the fact that DSFA have more to worry about now with 450,000 on the live register to be chasing up people doing voluntary work when they should be looking for work (full-time)

but if this has always been the case then I stand corrected.

Afaik, you can do voluntary work for up to three days per week without it interfering.