Sending out an SOS.- Pool and its future

Spiritoftheseventies

Given the talk about Hicks Jr and Spirit of Shankley's apparent role in his subsequent demise think this subject needs further discussion given the debate on pool super thread over the past few days.

Kess73

To be honest I don't see how it merits it's own thread. It can be discussed in the super thread, and anyone looking for information on the Spirit Of Shankly supporters union can find it in spades on their own website.

There are bigger issues at stake than the Hick jnr email, and a dedicated thread is just asking for other past SOS issues to get dragged up again.

CHD

How can you moan about Liverpool threads then set yourself up for more annoyance by starting this. Slap yourself.

Spiritoftheseventies

Kess73 wrote: »

To be honest I don't see how it merits it's own thread. It can be discussed in the super thread, and anyone looking for information on the Spirit Of Shankly supporters union can find it in spades on their own website.

There are bigger issues at stake than the Hick jnr email, and a dedicated thread is just asking for other past SOS issues to get dragged up again.

agree there but seeing its such a big issue at the moment I think it merits a seperate thread on its own. Will be the major debating point of 2010 Im sure.

Kess73

bayviewclose wrote: »

agree there but seeing its such a big issue at the moment I think it merits a seperate thread on its own. Will be the major debating point of 2010 Im sure.

Hardly a major debating point. The son of one of the owners reacts badly to an email after having umpteen emails sent to him by people over a period of time, and he resigns after one of those who was emailing him puts the emails into the public domain and into the media. All we would need is one big purchase or one big sale for this event to become an afterthought.

Something like whether Rafa keeps his job or not come the summer is a bigger talking point, and one done to death, and when the summer finally rolls around, then we will have one of the major talking points of 2010 for LFC.

I think it is a subject that if it gets too much attention, will reflect badly on the fans as much as Hicks jnr.

Also drawing too much attention to it could backfire if the same email campaign starts with his replacement, as it will get exposed as a cheap tactic.

My main concern is that it will deflect attention away from the bigger off pitch problems at the club and cause things like the lies regarding the new stadium, plus the lies about the debt to take a back seat.

ziggy

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Spiritoftheseventies

ziggy wrote: »

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Not sure. But they are going to play a major role I think this year. Already there is talk of a boycott and I think if Rafa is messed any further re transfer funds they will start to vote with their feet.

Bandit12

How dare you start a thread on boards about LFC that does'nt belittle Rafa,his signings,zonal marking,his record etc..

Kess73

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There was a peaceful but vocal protest at the ground that day.

Some people did go after a car that they thought had the owners or relatives of the owners in it. As to whether the car shakers were SOS or not is another story. A few versions of the story are floating about, so what actually happened will not doubt vary depending on who tells it. But it will not be as bad as naysayers would have you believe, nor will it be as whiter than white as some would like to think.

Some may have been members of SOS, but they would be a mindless minority that are being weeded up as time goes by, and some may have been idiots who were non members who joined in on the act of stupidity.

I know events like that do not reflect well on the SOS, but I can safely say that those who have that kind of thing in mind are becoming less in number as the months go by, as the SOS themselves will not want such actions to deflect away from the core issues.

Bandit12

bayviewclose wrote: »

Not sure. But they are going to play a major role I think this year. Already there is talk of a boycott and I think if Rafa is messed any further re transfer funds they will start to vote with their feet.

I suggested a boycott of a premier league game on RAWK last season and was laughed out of the thread. Seems the idea is gathering pace on the site now. I said it then and i'll say it again, it will take the selling of Torres for the average day tripper/sofa fan to realise that the club is in huge trouble and then it will be to late. It's in all probability to late already.

hello_there_jim

you really need to stop makin these threads...a post whore i think..

Kess73

Bandit12 wrote: »

I suggested a boycott of a premier league game on RAWK last season and was laughed out of the thread. Seems the idea is gathering pace on the site now. I said it then and i'll say it again, it will take the selling of Torres for the average day tripper/sofa fan to realise that the club is in huge trouble and then it will be to late. It's in all probability to late already.

Lack of revenue is the only thing the owners will understand to be honest. It is a tactic that will have some short to medium term pain for the fans too, as it would be a case of who cracks first.

It is also a risky tactic as it could mean even less funding for the club in the short to medium term, which would mean even less in terms of new players and could make a top four finish become a pipedream for a number of seasons.

The other side of that coin is that it could encourage the owners to cash in, and a new owner would get a club that would suddenly get extra cash coming in as the fans came back in terms of buying merchandise etc.

Spiritoftheseventies

hello_there_jim wrote: »

you really need to stop makin these threads...a post whore i think..

No this topic IMO deserves a discussion. A bit off topic that and hello there Jim by the way.

Chardee MacDennis

anfield can sell out twice over for a lot of premier league games, a boycott wont do it unless 90% of the season ticket holders arent showing and making the place look empty and even then the loss of revenue from season ticket holders alone wouldnt be enough to push the owners into any drastic decisions.

Spiritoftheseventies

BastardPrince wrote: »

anfield can sell out twice over for a lot of premier league games, a boycott wont do it unless 90% of the season ticket holders arent showing and making the place look empty and even then the loss of revenue from season ticket holders alone wouldnt be enough to push the owners into any drastic decisions.

Yes but its the mid week games they are struggling to fill. Will be curious to see what they get at the Reading game on Wednesday if it goes ahead.

The Muppet

Kess73 wrote: »

Lack of revenue is the only thing the owners will understand to be honest. It is a tactic that will have some short to medium term pain for the fans too, as it would be a case of who cracks first.

It is also a risky tactic as it could mean even less funding for the club in the short to medium term, which would mean even less in terms of new players and could make a top four finish become a pipedream for a number of seasons.

The other side of that coin is that it could encourage the owners to cash in, and a new owner would get a club that would suddenly get extra cash coming in as the fans came back in terms of buying merchandise etc.

It's suicide TBH. What sort of message will it send to sponsors and prospective investors/buyers, it'll hardly add to the appeal . It would cut revenue and permanenty tarnish the image of the club and its supporters. It's madness to even consider such action.

Protests should be focused at the Yanks and designed to get maximum media attention.

keane2097

Isn't this the topic that's been talked about on the Liverpool thread for days?

Surely that's the natural place to continue the conversation rather than making everybody repeat themselves in here?

Chardee MacDennis

keane2097 wrote: »

Isn't this the topic that's been talked about on the Liverpool thread for days?

Surely that's the natural place to continue the conversation rather than making everybody repeat themselves in here?

we're used to repeating everything ad nauseam in the liverpool super thread...

mayordenis

After this weeks little entrapment episode I think I won't be renewing my membership with SOS - I support the fundamental ideal of being rid of the current owners, however I have no interest in the naivety and at times biggotry shown by the "union".

keane2097

BastardPrince wrote: »

we're used to repeating everything ad nauseam in the liverpool super thread...

lol

Headshot

mayordenis wrote: »

After this weeks little entrapment episode I think I won't be renewing my membership with SOS - I support the fundamental ideal of being rid of the current owners, however I have no interest in the naivety and at times biggotry shown by the "union".

do you think i was a set up Denis ?

Mr Alan

mayordenis wrote: »

After this weeks little entrapment episode I think I won't be renewing my membership with SOS - I support the fundamental ideal of being rid of the current owners, however I have no interest in the naivety and at times biggotry shown by the "union".

wat a load of bollox.

the guy who emailed Hicks was doing so off his own back as many of our fans have over the last couple of years.

he discussed his response online on TLW a site he frequents (which would be among the LEAST militant Liverpool sites online), the union became aware of it, it became news, union demanded he resign. he did.

how can you view that as anything but good?

and wat bigotry are you refering to?

Kess73

Headshot wrote: »

do you think i was a set up Denis ?

I am a member of SOS also, and I would defo agree with Denis in that it was a pretty obvious setup that Hicks jnr was to naive/stupid/arrogant to avoid.


There was a campaign of emails being sent over and over, not just by some SOS members though, and Hicks jnr eventually took the bait and responded like a fool. People may say that it was just emails being sent by concerned fans to express their fears, but no doubt Hicks jnr and others were receiving hundreds if not thousands of mails, and I would imagine not all of them were well thought out. Whether the person that Hicks replied to was totally innocent in all of this we will never know for sure, but it is fair to say that his email was the straw that broke this particular camel's back.

He still should not have reacted though. But I don't think anyone can say that the campaign of emails had no other motive other than to express concern.

Some may think it a low tactic, myself included, but it did garner a result of sorts. Whether that result will have positive or negative repercussions in the future, only time will tell.

kryogen

Mr Alan wrote: »

wat a load of bollox.

the guy who emailed Hicks was doing so off his own back as many of our fans have over the last couple of years.

he discussed his response online on TLW a site he frequents (which would be among the LEAST militant Liverpool sites online), the union became aware of it, it became news, union demanded he resign. he did.

how can you view that as anything but good?

and wat bigotry are you refering to?

what have you achieved with the "victory" of the guy resigning from the cushy position daddy gave him?

it wasnt exactly one email was it either? he harrased the guy and he reacted unfortunately, or fortunately i guess for those who like hollow pr victorys maybe?

do you support the people who have made death threats against the owners? who have attacked cars when they think they might be in them?
who send email after email of abuse and baiting until they get the reaction they have been looking for so much?

this whole story reminded me of a kid in from my school days who used to keep flicking the lad in front of hims ears, despite repeated polite requests for him to stop he didnt, and when the boy in front eventually turned around, and rightly flattened him with a punch, he goes crying to the teacher


EDIT: i agree with everything Kess has said above, he probably said it in a much better way then i

Kess73

mayordenis wrote: »

After this weeks little entrapment episode I think I won't be renewing my membership with SOS - I support the fundamental ideal of being rid of the current owners, however I have no interest in the naivety and at times biggotry shown by the "union".

Interesting choice of words there.

When you say bigotry, are you referring to some of what has been said/done towards the owners or are you referring to what went on at an end of season SOS party?

Mr Alan

do we even know for sure if this fella was a member of SOS?

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

do we even know for sure if this fella was a member of SOS?

No idea if he is. But when the SOS got the info and ran with it and demanded the Hick jnr resign, they did so in the name of everyone who is a member, such is the way a union works, and as such I can understand why Denis is disgusted by it.

Mr Alan

kryogen wrote: »

do you support the people who have made death threats against the owners?

nope. but the Union has never done anything like this? it seems anything negative that happens involving Liverpool fans is attributed to them.

kryogen wrote: »

who have attacked cars when they think they might be in them?

attacked? no dont support that.

do however support them blocking the lads entrance to Anfield as happened within the last couple of weeks.

kryogen wrote: »

who send email after email of abuse and baiting until they get the reaction they have been looking for so much?

it wasnt email of abuse after abuse, it an email of an article followed by an innocent question. do you not think if this lad was threatening Hicks Jnr, the union would have ran with it (they recd screen shots & copies of all emails before they released their statement or forwarded it to the media), or indeed Hicks & Co. would have not just released the threatening emails this guy sent them to discredit him & justify Hicks Jnr response.

loads of fans email Hicks & Co. have done so myself in the past.

Spiritoftheseventies

Mr Alan wrote: »

do we even know for sure if this fella was a member of SOS?

Without a ball being kicked, a section of Liverpool's fans will remember Jan 10 as the date of yet another famous victory in Anfield's long, illustrious history. As one put it: "One down. Three to go."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/6969370/One-down-three-to-go-say-angry-Liverpool-fans-after-Tom-Hicks-Jnr-resigns-from-board.html


Spirit of Shankly - One down, three to go, say angry Liverpool fans after Tom Hicks Jnr resigns

Even in an era when supporters are left feeling like little more than cash-cows, milked by remote foreign owners, with no say in their club's future, the departure of Tom Hicks Jnr from Liverpool's board after sending an obscene email to a fan which read, "Blow me, ----face. Go to hell. I'm sick of you", the general public can have an effect, it seems.

Just as the Premier League has given rise to a sense of impotence among supporters, so it has mobilised them as never before. Fans left feeling isolated from increasingly distant clubs have organised themselves. The internet has spawned volumes of rebel groups, none more so than at Anfield.


It is here that some distress enters the equation. Hicks Jnr's departure was not engineered by a mass show of strength from the stands. Rather, it emanated from Spirit of Shankly, the club's supporters' union, a highly organised group who picked up Hicks Jnr's slip of the thumb, alerted the media, prepared statements and quickly brewed the storm. Within hours, the fans had spoken.

Or so it appeared. To many Liverpool fans, SOS no more speak for them than knee-jerk callers to television and radio phone-ins. They are the mouthpiece for the vocal minority. They only presume to echo the thoughts of the silent majority. Their leaflets are ignored. Their protests attract, at most, a few thousand.

At Elland Road this season, the travelling fans cheerfully baited Leeds fans with the name of Peter Ridsdale. The irony was lost on them. The majority of fans, like Liverpool's owners, dismiss SOS as an extremist hard-core, unelected, unaccountable, and one that has no mandate to demand the resignation of directors or the departure of owners. All that matters to most, as elsewhere, is what happens on the pitch. Anyone who disagrees is viewed as an obsessive crank.

That is always the perception of fans' groups, whether at Newcastle, Brighton, Leeds or Manchester United. All of those clubs, though, would attest that, sometimes, the vocal minority needs to be heard. Long after the prospectors, trying to mine the seam of gold supposed to run beneath all clubs, depart, the fans endure. SOS and their ilk simply seek to ensure they do not need to endure more than necessary.

This an interesting article here and again asks the question just how popular SOS are. What is clear is they ran a very effective campaign. Hicks and Gillette Im sure will have their PR working overtime to avoid another repeat of what happened in terms of the E mail but dont see any let up from SOS to be honest.

Kess73

bayviewclose wrote: »

Without a ball being kicked, a section of Liverpool's fans will remember Jan 10 as the date of yet another famous victory in Anfield's long, illustrious history. As one put it: "One down. Three to go."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/6969370/One-down-three-to-go-say-angry-Liverpool-fans-after-Tom-Hicks-Jnr-resigns-from-board.html


Spirit of Shankly - One down, three to go, say angry Liverpool fans after Tom Hicks Jnr resigns




This an interesting article here and again asks the question just how popular SOS are. What is clear is they ran a very effective campaign. Hicks and Gillette Im sure will have their PR working overtime to avoid another repeat of what happened in terms of the E mail but dont see any let up from SOS to be honest.

One word describes the bit in bold.

Hyperbole.

Mr Alan

Are people really trying to say that Hicks Jnr, who is one of the directors of LFC should be allowed to send a correspondance to a fan with that content? if i did that in work i'd be sacked. and so should he have been.

Spiritoftheseventies

Kess73 wrote: »

One word describes the bit in bold.

Hyperbole.

yes agree in away. they are playing to the gallery now with that sort of talk. Up to the local papers not to be stirring up the situation. End of the day its just going to put ogg future buyers if a certain element have been seen to run the owners out of town this way.

monkey9

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are people really trying to say that Hicks Jnr, who is one of the directors of LFC should be allowed to send a correspondance to a fan with that content? if i did that in work i'd be sacked. and so should he have been.

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

kryogen

monkey9 wrote: »

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

Your right, Benitez is weak for not physically throwing him out himself

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

Are people really trying to say that Hicks Jnr, who is one of the directors of LFC should be allowed to send a correspondance to a fan with that content? if i did that in work i'd be sacked. and so should he have been.

I don't think anyone is saying he should reply to anyone in the manner that he did, and nobody is saying that he was not stupid, naive, and maybe arrogant in how he replied.

If the person he replied to was genuine and was not pestering him on a regular basis with mails, then Hicks jnr has not got a leg to stand on, but it does look like this is the payoff for a continued campaign, and that is what I think is leaving a bad taste in the mouths of many.

So in my opinion; should Hicks jnr, a man in a position of authority at the club, have resigned for the way he replied? Hell yes, I don't think there was any other outcome there.


Do I think it was a cynical campaign designed to provoke such a response from him or any of the others? Yes I do think so, and as such it feels a very hollow victory, if a victory at all.

Kess73

monkey9 wrote: »

If a board member of any company said that to a customer, they'd be out on their ear.

Shankly would be spinning in his grave and if it happened on his watch, he'd have forcibly removed Hicks Jnr himself!!

It's great to see fan power make a difference at the club.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc_XSdOLFSU

The great man would be spinning in his grave at a lot of things I think, and not just at the owners. That is the great pity in all of this.

The general cause is right I feel, but some of the tactics used and some of the battles fought, have blurred the lines somewhat.

Liverpool are in big big trouble financially and the next year or two could prove to be pivitol.

Until new investment is found the club may possibly have to sell our best players and buy sub-standard replacements which could see us drop out of the top 4, even top 6.

David Moores has a lot to answer for.

noodler

I wish I was as self-righteous as my fellow pool fans.

Thread not needed.

Kess73

Kess73 wrote: »

The great man would be spinning in his grave at a lot of things I think, and not just at the owners. That is the great pity in all of this.

The general cause is right I feel, but some of the tactics used and some of the battles fought, have blurred the lines somewhat.

Some of the tactics are frankly embarressing tbh.

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

I don't think anyone is saying he should reply to anyone in the manner that he did, and nobody is saying that he was not stupid, naive, and maybe arrogant in how he replied.

Do I think it was a cynical campaign designed to provoke such a response from him or any of the others? Yes I do think so, and as such it feels a very hollow victory, if a victory at all.

"Maybe" arrogant? are you for real?

where are you getting this was a persistant harrasment by this fella, or a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?

Headshot

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

Bandit12

kryogen wrote: »

Your right, Benitez is weak for not physically throwing him out himself

Kess73

Mr Alan wrote: »

"Maybe" arrogant? are you for real?

where are you getting this was a persistant harrasment by this fella, or a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?

Maybe you should actually pay attention to what I have written in this thread and stop trying to be the superfan all the time. You have being following me about like a bitchdog in heat the last few days looking for something to feign outrage at.


"Maybe arrogant, are you for real?" LMAO.

Clutching at straws there. Yes maybe he was arrogant in his reply, but if he was it cost him, hardly something for you to be jumping up and down with.


"Are you for real?" It gets funnier the more I read it.



"Persistant Harrassment"

A lot of people have picked up on the fact that there was more than one email, hell even the guy himself said so in an interview that he had sent a number of mails asking about the club finances, and not just one email. I have also said that the guy himself may have shown no malice in his emails, but that it was fair to say that his email was the one the broke the camel's back.

What was wrong with that comment? Nothing because the reaction of Hicks jnr proved that it was the email that caused him to snap. The lack of offensive content is irrelevant.



"a planned thing by SOS? or are you simly inventing this?"

Are you trying to say that there was no campaign to get people to send mails to a list of email addresses? Hmm gee I wonder why was there lists of emails addresses on most of the liverpool fc fansites.

Gee I wonder why you yourself sent email to Hicks jnr, something you mention on this thread?

It must be a mass delusion as a number of Liverpool fans on this thread and the superthread seem to think there was a campaign to encourage supporters to email their concerns to the owners and other club officials. I guess the all must be "simly inventing " it. As for who organised it? Well I cannot say, can you?

I could not give a rat's ass that you have a problem with me, and unlike you, I have given polite and non sarky replies to your posts in this thread, even when I disagree totally with you.

So in future if you have a problem with me, send a pm and we can hash it out there rather than doing it through the forums and boring everyone else.

If you disagree with me or have a different view on a subject, then articulate what you think in a non "are you for real?" (still funny btw) manner, and I will be happy to treat you in the same manner and show you the same respect.

Personally I hope you chose the option of debating your opinions and sending a pm if you have a problem, as you can be an interesting poster at times, even when you say things I disagree with. Hell I might even buy you a pint at the SOS end of season party.


The ball is in your court.

The other options are to simply ignore me or not bother to reply to me.

Kess73

Headshot wrote: »

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

Whatever gives you that idea?

You should see how bad it gets when marmite is the topic of discussion.

Spiritoftheseventies

Headshot wrote: »

it seems the SOS divides alot pool fans

how many active members do SOS have ?

I think you would have to question some of their tactics. Understand they are at the coalface of this dispute and feel their club is under threat but again feel there was a bit of harassment against Hicks Jr. He was wrong to reply in the way they did but just feel it leaves a bit of sour taste in the mouth.

ziggy

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Headshot

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

give us the low down

Mr Alan

Kess73 wrote: »

Clutching at straws there. Yes maybe he was arrogant in his reply, but if he was it cost him, hardly something for you to be jumping up and down with.

what i am blown away by.....is that a board member at LFC replied to a fan "idot", when presented with an article abot debt/transfers. then when questioned on it he replied, "blow me ****face" ....... and you say MAYBE it was an arrogant response?!

A lot of people have picked up on the fact that there was more than one email, hell even the guy himself said so in an interview that he had sent a number of mails asking about the club finances, and not just one email.

exactly, the guy said there was two afaik. "idiot" was the response to his first one. i'm sure hicks & co have recd loads over the last couple of years, that is no excuse. perhaps he sent more than that over a period of months/years, again thats totally fair enough.

I have also said that the guy himself may have shown no malice in his emails, but that it was fair to say that his email was the one the broke the camel's back.

fair enough, then he should have arranged for them to be dumped into a junk mail folder, something that could have been easily done i'd imagine.

Are you trying to say that there was no campaign to get people to send mails to a list of email addresses? Hmm gee I wonder why was there lists of emails addresses on most of the liverpool fc fansites.

i have never witnessed an organised campaign to mail Hicks or anyone. i have seen email addresses online on message boards, but ones nothing to do with SOS.

Gee I wonder why you yourself sent email to Hicks jnr, something you mention on this thread?

i actually mailed Hicks before i was a member of SOS.

As for who organised it? Well I cannot say, can you?

no one organised it imo. it was simply fans voicing their grievances in a perfectly normal & acceptable way by contacting the people concerned.

ziggy

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Mr Alan

the email is horrendous.

this union rep said that "hicks got what he deserved?" re: the incident in the pub? i sincerely doubt it, if so i'll be mailing the union to complain.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.