ps3 and small claims court

Retr0gamer

I kind of feel sorry for the retailers in this matter since it's really the manufacturers fault in this case. Still it's better to stick up for your rights. They are there for a reason so best to use them.

Absolam

Has anyone actually managed to win this at the Small Claims Court? I don't mean a default ruling based on the retailer not turning up, but a judgement from the Judge with both parties present?

norrie rugger

Absolam wrote: »

Has anyone actually managed to win this at the Small Claims Court? I don't mean a default ruling based on the retailer not turning up, but a judgement from the Judge with both parties present?

Will be heading this way soon enough I imagine.
Started getting YLoD at the weekend:(

norrie rugger

Standing in Smyth's Blanch, at the moment. Fobbed my off to head office. The struggle begins

Slick50

Good luck dealing with Smyths, they seem determined to play hardball on this. The staff in the shops have no say, so it was always going to go to head office. If your going to the small claims court, be sure to explain why you are making your application to the court you choose. ie. which branch you bought your console in, or you could get your case refered to galway:o.

Butch Cassidy

norrie rugger wrote: »

Standing in Smyth's Blanch, at the moment. Fobbed my off to head office. The struggle begins

Best of luck.

norrie rugger

Email sent to smyths head office. Very polite but firm, not want to be seen as unreasonable just yet.

Norrie Rugger wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam
In December 2007 I purchased a Sony PS3, for almost €500, in your Blanchardstown Centre store.
Now 2.5 years later, this very expensive piece of equipment has failed. It is showing the Yellow fault indicator, that has become very common in units, from this time period.

An internet search shows thousands of such complaints.
My expectation of a reasonable life cycle of this expensive product is far more than 2.5 years. I have had a vast list of games consoles with which to base this expectation on, including the Sony Playstation/Sony Playstation 2/Sony Playstation Portable. These three Sony products alone lasted much longer than 2.5 years. In fact my launch model PS2 is still being used, in the National Children's' Hospital Tallaght, 8 years after purchase.

I went to the point of purchase to express my displeasure, at this unit failing, only to be met with a "we only give 1 year warranty" and a €160 "refurb model" was all that could be offered. I was also told that I had to contact Sony directly to take things further. I strongly disagree with these sentiments. I informed the store person that this "warranty" is only in addition to the rights that are already given to every Irish consumer and that store policy does not supersede legislation, in that I am entitled to a reasonable life span of my purchase, which as stated earlier should be more than 2.5 years, and that I made a contract with Smyths Toys not Sony. Upon this, the store person advised me to contact your customer phone line. From here, I was told that I must submit my complaint in writing, with proof of purchase.

Considering that I have purchased all of the mentioned consoles in a Smyths store, I am extremely dissatisfied with the reception that my complaint received. Electronic items are extremely expensive and, as such, I believe that they should last a respectable period.

I expect a reply within a reasonable time frame.



Kind Regards,
Norrie Rugger (names changed to protect the "innocent")

whiterebel

Brought a tear to my eye anyway, NR......:D


Good luck with it, We'll watch with interest.

noodler

Well put letter NR.

norrie rugger

whiterebel wrote: »

Brought a tear to my eye anyway, NR......:D


Good luck with it, We'll watch with interest.

Bastard thing has eaten my season 1 Star Trek Original Series Disc 2 BluRay!!

That is what is bringing a tear to my eye, that and boredom

Yellowledbetter

Best of luck NR,well put across

Slick50

norrie rugger wrote: »

Bastard thing has eaten my season 1 Star Trek Original Series Disc 2 BluRay!!

That is what is bringing a tear to my eye, that and boredom

I know it's a bitch, but isn't it funny how our beloved, mystical PS3s turn into "bastard things" just like that. I supose you've tried the turning off the power at the back and holding the eject button as you power back on, trick?

norrie rugger

Slick50 wrote: »

I know it's a bitch, but isn't it funny how our beloved, mystical PS3s turn into "bastard things" just like that. I supose you've tried the turning off the power at the back and holding the eject button as you power back on, trick?

Are you really serious?


Honest question

Slick50

Am I serious about what?

norrie rugger

Have I tried everything to get the disc out? Of course i have.

Slick50

OK, just when the red mist comes over the eyes in frustration, it's easy to forget the simplest/most obvious things.

Neilers74

Also had a bricked PS3 that I bought back in Mar 08. Rang Sony when it happened they said the usual line "out of warranty and €160 for a refurb".

Rang the NCA and was told sales contract is with the merchant rather then the manufacturer. Rang Smiths told they give a 1 warranty on top of Sonys Warranty. pretty pointless 2 X 1 warranties to cover the same thing at the same time. Ususal sales geniuses.

The also said that the onus if on me to prove that there is a manufacturing issue with PS3. YLOD is rife with the old consoles. Have sent a letter of complaint to Smyths Customer Services, theres one for the "trade descriptions act". Will have to go to the Small Claims court if I don't hear back soon.

Anyone else have any luck ? Let us know only takes a couple of complaints to be successful in order for them to acknowledge the fault.

Post updates if you have had any luck.

Yellowledbetter

Neilers74 wrote: »

Also had a bricked PS3 that I bought back in Mar 08. Rang Sony when it happened they said the usual line "out of warranty and €160 for a refurb".

Rang the NCA and was told sales contract is with the merchant rather then the manufacturer. Rang Smiths told they give a 1 warranty on top of Sonys Warranty. pretty pointless 2 X 1 warranties to cover the same thing at the same time. Ususal sales geniuses.

The also said that the onus if on me to prove that there is a manufacturing issue with PS3. YLOD is rife with the old consoles. Have sent a letter of complaint to Smyths Customer Services, theres one for the "trade descriptions act". Will have to go to the Small Claims court if I don't hear back soon.

Anyone else have any luck ? Let us know only takes a couple of complaints to be successful in order for them to acknowledge the fault.

Post updates if you have had any luck.

Have a read back through this thread,their are a couple of good letters written by people who have had your problem(myself included) and they should point you in the right direction.
Best of luck with your conquest!!

whiterebel

Neilers74 wrote: »

Also had a bricked PS3 that I bought back in Mar 08. Rang Sony when it happened they said the usual line "out of warranty and €160 for a refurb".

Rang the NCA and was told sales contract is with the merchant rather then the manufacturer. Rang Smiths told they give a 1 warranty on top of Sonys Warranty. pretty pointless 2 X 1 warranties to cover the same thing at the same time. Ususal sales geniuses.

The also said that the onus if on me to prove that there is a manufacturing issue with PS3. YLOD is rife with the old consoles. Have sent a letter of complaint to Smyths Customer Services, theres one for the "trade descriptions act". Will have to go to the Small Claims court if I don't hear back soon.

Anyone else have any luck ? Let us know only takes a couple of complaints to be successful in order for them to acknowledge the fault.

Post updates if you have had any luck.

Have a quick search for blu-ray or death, and you will find a poll with over 300 votes. Not exactly the most scientific but could sway a judge in a close run case.

Gran Hermano

Link to the BBC Watchdog show on the PS3 YLOD and failures:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/09/playstation3_and_the_yellow_li.html

Slick50

Neilers74 wrote: »

Anyone else have any luck ? Let us know only takes a couple of complaints to be successful in order for them to acknowledge the fault.Post updates if you have had any luck.

I am currently waiting for a court date from the SCC, involving Smyths. In the "sale of goods and supply of services act 1980" it states that goods must be "as durable as is reasonable to expect", to be of merchantable quality. This is the point I will be pushing in my case, I don't know where sony or smyths are getting their burden of proof angle from. The judge will decide. Another large survey in england shows a far greater failure rate than sony will admit, they surveyed over 500,000 PS3 owners... see "http.//www.nofussreviews.com/survey-results-2010.php" Their survey shows a failure rate of 8% of all PS3s. With the 40gb and 60gb being responsible for 75-80% of failures, that gives them about a 15% failure rate, I'm pretty sure that puts them outside the acceptable failure rate figures. Probably why sony won't release break down stats for these models alone. Good luck dealing with smyths.

Butch Cassidy

Neilers74 wrote: »

Also had a bricked PS3 that I bought back in Mar 08. Rang Sony when it happened they said the usual line "out of warranty and €160 for a refurb".

Rang the NCA and was told sales contract is with the merchant rather then the manufacturer. Rang Smiths told they give a 1 warranty on top of Sonys Warranty. pretty pointless 2 X 1 warranties to cover the same thing at the same time. Ususal sales geniuses.

The also said that the onus if on me to prove that there is a manufacturing issue with PS3. YLOD is rife with the old consoles. Have sent a letter of complaint to Smyths Customer Services, theres one for the "trade descriptions act". Will have to go to the Small Claims court if I don't hear back soon.

Anyone else have any luck ? Let us know only takes a couple of complaints to be successful in order for them to acknowledge the fault.

Post updates if you have had any luck.

Good luck, keep at it. Make sure you quote the Sale of Goods and Supply act 1980 as Slick5o mentioned there.

In fact, you'd do well to check out this website - http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_knowrights.html

Just keep refering to your rights and don't take any hassle. The reason warranties are offered is to deter people from using the Sales Act which gives you some pretty strong rights actually.

norrie rugger

Smyth's reply below
SCC here I come

Smyth's wrote:

Hello NR,



Thank you for your e-mail.



Our apologies for the delayed response to your query. During this time we have investigated this for you. This has been discussed this with our Software Head Buyers, Sony as well as the Blanchardstown Store Manager.



In Smyth’s Toy Stores, all software consoles/hardware are covered for 30 days directly with us and for one year with the manufacturer, unless otherwise stated. This means that if manufacturing problems arise within 30 days, Smyth’s will either repair/replace/refund within 30 days of the item being purchased, provided that the fault is a manufacturing fault. Outside of this 1 month period we offer our customers a refurbished unit, assuming the customer has not voided their warranty. Outside of the year guarantee, the alternative we offer our customers is to purchase a refurbished console at a set charge.



At this time the offer of a refurbished console for the set charge of €160 is still available to you. This is a service that we offer to our customers who are outside of their warranty period or if the fault is not covered under warranty (i.e. if it’s a non-manufacturing fault).



The yellow light fault indicator is not a specific fault; it is an indication that there is a problem with the console. The claims made on online forums and website have been widely disputed, including the allegations made on the Watchdog report.



Your console worked for 30 months without any problems; so we feel that something must have happened within that time to cause a failure. The reason why we only offer 1 year guarantee is that we feel should a fault occur outside of this time; it is a non-manufacturing fault.

A non-manufacturing fault is something which is not an inherent fault of the product or a manufacturing flaw. Some of the possible causes would be due to accidental damage, negligence, abuse or misuse (including, without limitation, failure to use this product for its normal purpose and / or in accordance with instructions) or storage in an unsuitable atmosphere (eg: in a dusty area, humid or unventilated area).



It has not been verified to either us the retailer, with whom your contract remains, or the manufacturer that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fault. The burden proof is on the customer to proof this outside of the 6months after purchase.



Our obligations as a retailer are to provide you, the consumer, with a form of redress where they have an issue redressed with the product they have purchased. This can take the form of offering repair, refund or replacement. The retailer is not obliged to let the consumer choose which method of redress is offered, and the retailer does not have to be the direct provider of the redress.



If issues arise and we direct you to the manufacturers’ care line, this is seen as a perfectly acceptable means of redressing the issue you have with your product. Should you wish to contact Sony yourself directly, their number is 0818 365 065 or alternatively you can log onto their website www.ie.playstation.com.



We trust that you now understand the reason that we cannot offer you a refund or a replacement free of charge at this time. We would like to clarify that we are indeed redressing your query, by offering a replacement at a small charge. This is at a charge because, as of yet it has not been verified to us that there is a manufacturing fault present.



We trust that this letter clarifies our warranty cover, store procedures and the reasons that we cannot offer you this replacement free of charge at this time.



We regret to inform you that we are unable to pursue this matter further or reverse the decision made for the reasons above.



Our apologies for any inconvenience or disappointment that this may cause,

Regards,
xxxxx

Elessar

norrie rugger wrote: »

Smyth's reply below
SCC here I come

Haha, I hope you opened a case straight away! An interesting read. I would write a long and concise reply detailing their errors and attach a copy of the SCC case number.

Neilers74

I got the same generic letter from Smyths too this afternoon. SCC for me too.

norrie rugger

Elessar wrote: »

Haha, I hope you opened a case straight away! An interesting read. I would write a long and concise reply detailing their errors and attach a copy of the SCC case number.

Yeah she basically has accused me of doing something to damage the console.

I also love the way that she states that it is the shops decision in which of the (refund, replace, repair).


Now I will have to get someone who knows these issues, better than me, to help me write a reply.

Once I get that I will have the case brought at the SCC.
I could be the boards test case it seems

whiterebel

norrie rugger wrote: »

Yeah she basically has accused me of doing something to damage the console.

I also love the way that she states that it is the shops decision in which of the (refund, replace, repair).


Now I will have to get someone who knows these issues, better than me, to help me write a reply.

Once I get that I will have the case brought at the SCC.
I could be the boards test case it seems

Good luck with it, NR. You could ask consolerepairs if they have an idea of how many PS3's they have fixed, what is the fault etc? Despite Sony'f insistence its a generic fault code, it seems to be the same fix for all of them

Retr0gamer

You should gather up as much info as you can about the YLOD being caused by a manufacturing error, that error being that the console is not designed properly to take it's operating temperature causing warping of the motherboards and detachment of the connectors for te GPU. This is a very good one to start with:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-system-failure-article

Best of luck guys. I'm sure you will win if you take it to court and maybe it will result in another class action suit against Sony and Microsoft.

FunnyStuff

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

The reason warranties are offered is to deter people from using the Sales Act which gives you some pretty strong rights actually.

What?????? Dont be ridiculous

norrie rugger

FunnyStuff wrote: »

What?????? Dont be ridiculous

I think that he means is that the Vendors are using the "Warranties" to bash people over the head with, expecting that people will accept this