ps3 and small claims court

norrie rugger

Slick50 wrote: »

I dropped the origional claim, because some genius in the SCC office decided that I hadn't applied to the correct court, and forwarded it to Galway, who accepted it before I even got notification that it had been sent there. So as it had gone that far, I let it proceed until Smyths declared that they were "happy to let it go to court", if we are going to court I'm not travelling to Galway for it. So at this stage I have started a new case, it has been accepted at the origional court, and we are in the process of exchanging letters again. Don't think we will be exchanging as many letters this time, as I have pre-empted a lot of their bull from the first round. It's a pain, but we are nearly there. We seem to be at about the same point.

Any chance of sending my on these "bull" letters?

Slick50

In the small claims court, you can register a claim with the nearest court to
a: were the contract was made (were you buy )
b: were the company is based (in this case Galway)
c: were damage has been caused
So whoever recieved my origional claim, decided it should be heard in Galway. I may not have specified where I purchased my console, but surely a phone call should have been the first move, if there was any confusion.

Hi Norrie, from you posts, you've seen all their bull. Like their latest, insinuating that you must have caused some sort of damage, or that you were using the console in an unsuitable environment. Origionally it took them a few letters before they thought of that one, which was just wasting time as far as I'm concerned. So I have refuted that, and all their other excuses, in my first reply to their notice of contention.

wcarey1975

Just wanted to add in best of luck lads

yawnstretch

Yeah, best of luck. Down with these muth'fkahs!!!

norrie rugger

THIS CLAIM HAS BEEN SERVED ON THE RESPONDENT. AWAITING RESPONSE.


Current message, on the status screen

norrie rugger

Slick50 wrote: »

Hi Norrie, from you posts, you've seen all their bull. Like their latest, insinuating that you must have caused some sort of damage, or that you were using the console in an unsuitable environment. Origionally it took them a few letters before they thought of that one, which was just wasting time as far as I'm concerned. So I have refuted that, and all their other excuses, in my first reply to their notice of contention.

Haha

I have actually sent them a picture, of my entertainment set up.

Everything is spaced out and in an open 3 shelf stand.

Asked them to explain how a lack of ventilation can occur. They did not respond to that one

Varik

I have day one launch 60GB, and after finding my receipt turns out i spent a few cent short of €800. It is still working now and i've never had a problem but am getting worried has anyone gotten a good result from symths lately and what was the result.

Slick50

Smyths have been playing hardball on this so far, but then so did other retailers who have now changed their approach. There are no guarantees when anything goes to court, but other retailers didn't risk an actual hearing up to now, some bringing it to the court steps before caving. So we have yet to see if smyths will actually go that far either, or how a judge will view the case if he does have to settle it. Keep that receipt safe though...

norrie rugger

Update:

S.C.C. wrote:

THERE HAS BEEN AN INITIAL RESPONSE FROM THE RESPONDENT. IT IS ONE OF THE FIVE BELOW: NOTICE OF ACCEPTANCE OF LIABILITY, NOTICE OF DISPUTE OF CLAIM, COUNTER CLAIM, THIRD PARTY NOTICE, RESPONDENT HAS CONTACTED THIS OFFICE AND WISHES TO DISCUSS THE CLAIM. THE SMALL CLAIMS REGISTRAR WILL BE IN CONTACT WITH THE RELEVANT PARTIES IN DUE COURSE.

So it is at least moving along

noodler

Counter Claim - thats what my money is on!

They are going to take you to the cleaners for breaking their PS3 Norrie!

Elessar

norrie rugger wrote: »

Update:



So it is at least moving along

Let them come!

norrie rugger

So it could be that either Slick or myself are running as the Boards.ie test case.

Will keep you all posted as to the progress and comms

BArra

please do

yawnstretch

Good stuff.

Sick of these electronics companies breaking the rules we all learned growing up about goods being of merchantable quality.

Where's judge dredd when you need him?

I..AM...Du LAW!

Varik

yawnstretch wrote: »

Good stuff.

Sick of these electronics companies breaking the rules we all learned growing up about goods being of merchantable quality.

Where's judge dredd when you need him?

I..AM...Du LAW!

Isn't it the shops that are ignoring this.

norrie rugger

Varik wrote: »

Isn't it the shops that are ignoring this.

The shops are followong Sony's official line

norrie rugger

Smyths wrote:

I dispute the claim because the console is 31 months old. The Warranty covers the console for 12 months against manufacturing faults. Therefore it is 19 months outside of the warranty.
The claimant hasn't verified that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fauly of the console. We feel that the console worked for 28 months perfectly and something must have happened to affect the performance.
We feel that this is a non-manufacturing fault so therefore we cannot replace the console free of charge. We are happy to offer a replacement refurbished console for €160 which is an out of warranty service Sony offer their customers.

This is the exact transcript, sent to SCC by Smyths.
OK those of you that offered help, can we start to take this appart.
I need to be able to send a coherent and correct reply to the SCC.

As stated previously I took a picture, of my entertainment set up. This shows a Nintendo Wii, which is 1 year older than PS3, a surround sound system (2 years older), a 42" TV (A year newer) and a PC (SEVEN years older)

I can also dig out a 20 year old TV and Atari 7800, Original model Game Boy, Megadrive from 1993, PS1, PS2 and PSP which are all in perfect working condition. I would imagine that this would establish that I know how to maintain my electrical goods and that for "Something to happen" would have happened to other items, especially the Wii sitting next to PS3.


Now we come to the fun bit. Sony/Retailers are refusing to publish the actual breakdown of faults that their "Non Specific Fault Indicator" indicates. They also use new models in their published reliability studies, as opposed to launch model 60 and 40 gig (I have 40). Is there anyone with good independant tech reports? anyone know the lads in console repairs?

Need the combined strenght of the boards community here.

Varik

norrie rugger wrote: »

Now we come to the fun bit. Sony/Retailers are refusing to publish the actual breakdown of faults that their "Non Specific Fault Indicator" indicates. They also use new models in their published reliability studies, as opposed to launch model 60 and 40 gig (I have 40). Is there anyone with good independant tech reports? anyone know the lads in console repairs?

The console repairs guys will be as independent as you'll get, from what i understand the ylod is either the less likely power supply or the more likely connections around the cpu and gpu with either the connections to/on the motherboard or the heat transfer between them and the heatsink.

The psu is unlikely, but mention that you do use a surge protector. The only thing that could change in its use is poor ventilation or a surge so show that neither is the case, the case could be used to show that no damage could have occurred by dropping it.

It may be helpful to show the changes made and the improvements of the newer ps3 as the cpu and gpu use more power and so create more heat. The 90nm archetecture which results in additional heat generation, and power consumption. if it was good to begin with why change (try to ignore the manufacturing cost).

Not sure if it would help or be possible but would a rehearing be possible after the console was repair by console repair or someone to prove the cause, i wouldn't think this would be allowed but who knows and you might claim the cost back.

Cheer up i sure the justice will prevail.

norrie rugger

Varik wrote: »

The console repairs guys will be as independent as you'll get, from what i understand the ylod is either the less likely power supply or the more likely connections around the cpu and gpu with either the connections to/on the motherboard or the heat transfer between them and the heatsink.

The psu is unlikely, but mention that you do use a surge protector. The only thing that could change in its use is poor ventilation or a surge so show that neither is the case, the case could be used to show that no damage could have occurred by dropping it.

It may be helpful to show the changes made and the improvements of the newer ps3 as the cpu and gpu use more power and so create more heat. The 90nm archetecture which results in additional heat generation, and power consumption. if it was good to begin with why change (try to ignore the manufacturing cost).

Not sure if it would help or be possible but would a rehearing be possible after the console was repair by console repair or someone to prove the cause, i wouldn't think this would be allowed but who knows and you might claim the cost back.

Cheer up i sure the justice will prevail.

I was thinking of putting in that Sony/retailers also refuse to allow people to detect the actual problems, by having an engineer inspect the console

Varik

norrie rugger wrote: »

I was thinking of putting in that Sony/retailers also refuse to allow people to detect the actual problems, by having an engineer inspect the console

can't hurt, if opening the PS3 would be possible when violating the warranty then maybe pay console repair to just have a look. was that quote about how something must have happened to affect the performance written by Smyths or Sony as it's quoted and was there a reply from Sony to Smyths that you know of?

johnny_adidas

maybe its the conspiracy theorist in me but id be careful what you say on a public forum that may or may not have been the case and add it to the actual facts in your evidence as it would be very easy for someone to come across this and tie it to your case (guess a username protects people form that though ??)

great to see you are pressing forward with it. watching this with great interest

RobBaxter

we're all shouting for you!

norrie rugger

Varik wrote: »

can't hurt, if opening the PS3 would be possible when violating the warranty then maybe pay console repair to just have a look. was that quote about how something must have happened to affect the performance written by Smyths or Sony as it's quoted and was there a reply from Sony to Smyths that you know of?

All from Smyths as far as the response is concerned

I am not going to accept a refurb for €160 anyway, so will ask console repair to take a look.
Anyone got contact details?

Varik

norrie rugger wrote: »

All from Smyths as far as the response is concerned

I am not going to accept a refurb for €160 anyway, so will ask console repair to take a look.
Anyone got contact details?

The repairs don't last, a partial/full refund would be the best outcome or a new slim. You don't have BC but if/when it's me i will be trying for a full refund even if i got a replacement the BC would be missing so it won't be equivalent.

RobBaxter wrote: »

we're all shouting for you!

and at Smyths.

Elessar

So if I understand this correctly, they want you to show it was a manufacturing fault?

Simple, bring it with you to court, or to the registrar and demonstrate that it's not working. If there's no obvious damage to the unit, what else could it be?! I'd ring the court and ask could you do this.

Your response should be in the line of "Manufacturers warranty is in addition to and not a replacement of, my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. Under the Act, goods must be of merchantable quality and last for a reasonable amount of time. I believe that it is reasonable to expect a €600 games console to last longer than it has in my case. There is no damage to the unit nor has the unit ever been damaged in the past. It is a well documented manufacturing fault. I am requesting either a refund, repair or replacement from the retailer."

Something to that effect. It would greatly help your case if you could get an independent report from a console repair company stating it is a manufacturing fault. You still have a good chance without it though.

norrie rugger

Elessar wrote: »

So if I understand this correctly, they want you to show it was a manufacturing fault?

Simple, bring it with you to court, or to the registrar and demonstrate that it's not working. If there's no obvious damage to the unit, what else could it be?! I'd ring the court and ask could you do this.

Your response should be in the line of "Manufacturers warranty is in addition to and not a replacement of, my statutory rights under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980. Under the Act, goods must be of merchantable quality and last for a reasonable amount of time. I believe that it is reasonable to expect a €600 games console to last longer than it has in my case. There is no damage to the unit nor has the unit ever been damaged in the past. It is a well documented manufacturing fault. I am requesting either a refund, repair or replacement from the retailer."

Something to that effect. It would greatly help your case if you could get an independent report from a console repair company stating it is a manufacturing fault. You still have a good chance without it though.

Agreed, is there any repair company that you can think of, who would do this though?

Retr0gamer

I wouldn't go letting a console repairs company go opening the console. It could be argued that the damage was caused by invalidating your warrantee and opening the console up. I know you opened it after it broke but they will argue this and it'snot going to help your case. Talk to the console repairs guys, use the digital foundry article I posted since they are really experts in this area and also if you want something that the judge will understand and knwo about you can use the BBC watchdog program about the YLOD problem. Opening the console is the wrong way to go because smyths and sony then willnot take it back and do not legally have to because it could be seen as a Terms of Service violation.

norrie rugger

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I wouldn't go letting a console repairs company go opening the console. It could be argued that the damage was caused by invalidating your warrantee and opening the console up. I know you opened it after it broke but they will argue this and it'snot going to help your case. Talk to the console repairs guys, use the digital foundry article I posted since they are really experts in this area and also if you want something that the judge will understand and knwo about you can use the BBC watchdog program about the YLOD problem. Opening the console is the wrong way to go because smyths and sony then willnot take it back and do not legally have to because it could be seen as a Terms of Service violation.

What I was hoping to do was use the Digial Foundry article, also have the Console Repair guys give a general report on the failures, that they have seen, and to state to the judge/registrar that I could not get my console inspected (for a manufacturing fault) as Smyths would then refuse to take the console back at all

yawnstretch

Be nice if we could figure out how to give you a little present for your efforts.

It's people like you that protect us all.

Retr0gamer

Another problem is that Sony won't give an official statement on what the cause of the YLOD is. It's very obvious it's an overheating or power supply issue so maybe try and get a statement from the console repair guys about what causes the YLOD error.

Another thing that might be worth mentioning is that Microsoft extended the warrantee for overheating problems that cause the RROD to 3 years but as well as that even if the console is out of that 3 year warrantee they will replace the console for free as well as if the warrantee was still in effect. My 360 was 3 years and 6 months old when I got my RROD a few months ago and they still replaced it for nothing.

As the warrior poet Chuck D once said: 'Fight the power!'