Part of a multipack, not for individual resale?

ScouseMouse

randomer wrote: »

As a matter of interest, how much do a store make when they sell a 10 or 20 euro mobile phone topup, without the surcharge?

It used to be about 10% So for a tenner, we got about 1 euro.

Then the cost went up so it erroded to 7%

Then it went up again and it dropped to 5%

Now its going up again and the commission will drop to about 3.5 % This is a reduction of about 70% over the last couple of years.

ANYONE SEE A PATTERN HERE?

I have to charge a surcharge. To not do so makes it unviable. On top of this, we get a rebate per year of about half of 1%.

Not worth it really.

The ususal excuse of "it brings customers into your shop" is crap. Most dont buy anything else!

Hogzy

superscouse wrote: »

The ususal excuse of "it brings customers into your shop" is crap. Most dont buy anything else!

True! I dont think iv ever gone into a shop to buy credit and come out with more than that. And TBH if shops have to charge more than 20 or 10 or 5 for credit then people simply wont buy credit in shops, you can go to an atm or online banking and get it commission free.

ScouseMouse

Hogzy wrote: »

True! I dont think iv ever gone into a shop to buy credit and come out with more than that. And TBH if shops have to charge more than 20 or 10 or 5 for credit then people simply wont buy credit in shops, you can go to an atm or online banking and get it commission free.

so be it then

We cannot sell stock for nothing !

Hogzy

superscouse wrote: »

so be it then

We cannot sell stock for nothing !

Its a shame really because mobile phone companies really are fleecing people!
Whether it be a customer or a shopkeeper.

rubadub

Hogzy wrote: »

The retailer is the one who lowers the price for purchases in bulk (ie the multipack), Why would the wholesaler sell 24 cans of the same product (whether multipack or not) at different prices. It doesnt make sense. There is always a discount when buying in bulk and thats what a multipack does it reduces your cost because you are buying more than one product.

A lot of assumptions there, and many retailers prey on people like yourself. There are several threads with people moaning about mulitpacks being more expensive than standard ones, people like yourself who say there is ALWAYS a discount are the ones being caught out by the smart retailers.

More often that not the mulitpacks of 2L coke bottles in my tesco are more expensive than if bought singly, I see people just pick them off the shelf, probably making the same presumptions.

Just go into musgraves and you will see that mulitpacks are often cheaper to the retailer, it is the manufacturer who is usually passing on this lower price.

Why would the wholesaler sell 24 cans of the same product (whether multipack or not) at different prices. It doesnt make sense.

It does make sense to me, if somebody went into dunnes to get christmas mixers in and was going to buy 4 bottles of particular drinks their mind might be changed if they saw a good value mulitpack. People tend to consume the bigger packs quicker too so they probably sell more in the long run. The manufacturer wants the retailer to still be able to make the same profits so offers it at a discount to them, hoping they will pass this on to the customer.

Hogzy

^ Fair enough i suppose

Ghandee

Having read various replies fom both sides of the divide, I feel it's time I put my oar in.
Granted, I feel every sympathy for the small shopkeepers in this country, and I'm sure Tescos and the likes must be a mighty thorn in your sides.
HOWEVER:
as a few folk from the "we can charge what we like party" have pointed out, things get damaged, multipacks get split etc etc. I for one won't argue against that, but to then say something like are we supposed to give them to staff etc?
Well the answer to that is, no. No of course not, but what you should NOT do is put it on the shelf next to the normal/non multipack items. How many times have we walked into a shop to see various things in a little bin or basket with reduced to clear written on it?
These usually include items approaching sell by dates etc. If a multipack is split or a can is bust/ crisp packet opened. Put these items on a reduced to clear bin! That's why no one ever complains about buying a marsbar a week past it's sell by date, when the consumer benefits directly!
Charging customers full value for things from multipacks singly, whilst may or may not be legal (I'm the first to admit I don't know!) only makes us resent spending money in these shops go begin with, and as a result isvtarring a lot of small honest businesses with thevsame brush as the sneaks who have robbed us blind during the boom, and who try to do it still!

Shelflife

Gucky if for example a retailer buys a multipack of say coke , its the exact same as a regular coke apart from the (part of a multi pack) label. what harm has been done to the consumer?
they have got what they wanted at the usual price, the retailer manages to eek another few cents to pay his costs and believe me there are alot of small shops out there that are struggling to pay wages banks etc.

if however the multipack product is smaller and its being sold for the same price then that i disagree with.

thatsa spicy

Shelflife wrote: »

Gucky if for example a retailer buys a multipack of say coke , its the exact same as a regular coke apart from the (part of a multi pack) label. what harm has been done to the consumer?
they have got what they wanted at the usual price, the retailer manages to eek another few cents to pay his costs and believe me there are alot of small shops out there that are struggling to pay wages banks etc.

if however the multipack product is smaller and its being sold for the same price then that i disagree with.

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

As somebody who drinks a lot of coke, I can assure you that the multi-pack cans are definately of lower quality than the individual cans that should be on display. They don't taste as strong as the coke from indiviual cans/ bottles. Similarly, you should never buy a 2 litre botte that has the yellow labbelling telling you its part of a multi-pack; it is more diluted than usual.

That's complete and utter BS and all in your head. It's the exact same product. Do you really think there is a seperate production run of diluted coke to make it cheaper to produce ? lol

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

You're imagining it.

ScouseMouse

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

You have convinced yourself its different - but its not.

Its your imagination.

thatsa spicy

Both of you, how much coke do yous drink?

Ive been drinking, I regret to say, 2-litre bottles of the stuff 4 or 5 times a week for years and years and because of this I really can taste when the stuff is weaker than usual.
The coke from the individual 2-litre bottles that you find in the supermarket tastes better than the coke found in the 2-litre bottle found in the twin-pack (or triple-pack). It is not in my head; on more than one occasion I've been handed a glass of the twin pack stuff and have correctly judged it to be from a twin pack bottle.

I've also, on many occasions, purchased 6-can packs, 12-can packs and 24-can packs (where each individual can has a yellow ring around the top of the can, with the words "not to be sold as part of a multi-pack" written on it).
Now, I have also purchased 24-can slabs from garages....these are the cans that the shops put in the fridge...the individual cans that sell for approx 1 euro each....the ones that dont have any yellow multipack label on them. The individual cans from the garages, taste sweeter and generally nicer than the ones from the 24-can multi packs from the supermarkets.

I appreciate why you might say it's all in my head; after all, how many people say that coke is nicest, firstly, out of a glass bottle, then a can, then a plastic bottle? Most people would say this in my experience, and this is actually all in the head in my coke-experienced opinion. I think in this case it is because
1. glass bottle= nostalgia...smaller amount of coke implies nicer
2. can = you can't close it so you drink it before it goes flat
3 bottle= goes flat if you don't drink it quick enough

So yeah...and it pisses me off when I see a shop trying to get away with selling multi-pack cans or twin pack 2-litre bottles of coke as though they are not from a multi-pack/ twin-pack.


Please, somebody confirm to me that they agree that the multi-pack cans and twin pack 2-litre bottles are of lower quality than the individual cans/ 2-litre bottles!!

thatsa spicy

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

That's complete and utter BS and all in your head. It's the exact same product. Do you really think there is a seperate production run of diluted coke to make it cheaper to produce ? lol

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

jor el

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Untrue...it tastes weaker, absolutely and definately.

Taste is subjective though.

On the issue at hand, it's not illegal for the retailer to open and sell multipack products individually. However, it's probably against the producer/supplier's wishes, in which case they could potentially refuse to supply the retailer in future. The supplier takes part of the price hit on multipack items, as does the retailer (if there is a price reduction on the multipack, that is), and if the retailer is breaking them up and selling them at full cost then the supplier is at a loss. They probably wouldn't be too happy about that, but whether they'd actually do anything or not is another thing all together.

It's doubtful that any wholesale provider would refuse business, especially in the current climate. They might just ask the retailer to not do that in future, if even that.

astrofool

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

So you think a crisp company has two seperate manufacturing lines, as in, two sets of chipping machines, two sets of cooking machines, two sets of flavouring machines so they can make smaller packets? Do you even realise what it costs to set up a production line like that, and how ridiculous that would be? They cook and prepare the crisps the same way, at the end, the machine which sorts them is set to a different weight per item, and is fed in smaller/bigger bags to suit.

For coke, the only difference will be between can/plastic/glass as the coke will react with all slightly differently, and very very slightly alter the taste as a result.

All coke going into bottles has the same dilution, is fed off the same product, using the same water. The labelling happens as a seperate process once bottled, so it's just chance that determines if a batch is multipack or not.

You also imply the multipack is weaker, i.e. inferior product. This is of course you incorrectly presuming that there would be a cost difference and they would save money by making the multipacks cheaper. This is of course crap, adjusting the machine to make it weaker would erode any cost saving, and the actual cost of liquid coke to manufacture is too small for it to make a difference either way.

Pacing Mule

thatsa spicy wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? The crisp manufacturers obviously have a different production line for multi-pack bags of crisps which almost always contain less crisps than the individual bags that you buy in a newsagents.
Nobody can deny that unless their eyes don't fcuking work.

That's because most multi pack crisps are smaller in weight = less crisps per pack. As has already been explained there is a big difference between packaging into different size bags versus changing the product completely. Different sizes are available in most brands - take cornflakes there is not a seperate production run for 1kg, 750g and 500g packs with a 4th one for the mini one serving pack too.

For what it's worth I am a huge fan of Coke Zero myself so much so that I could tell the difference in taste between the various bottling plants, be it imported from outside of Ireland or from a UK source or indeed a different taste again for european production. Last year production of our coke moved to NI and the taste changed slightly. I could tell the difference between what was old stock and the new stock. I'm just wondering is this what you picked up on and have mistakenly labelled as being the difference between the multi packs.

thatsa spicy

Sorry, I wasn't thinking properly with regard to the whole "production line" thing. Obviously coke and the crisp companies are not going to have 2 completely sepreate production lines running from start to finish to produce 2 almost similar products; what I'm suggesting is that the product which is to be sold as part of a multi-pack is then put through a further process....coke is diluted somewhat and crisps are put into smaller bags.

I simply wont believe that multi-pack coke is no different to indivdual can coke because I can taste the difference..its not just in my head!

thatsa spicy

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Last year production of our coke moved to NI and the taste changed slightly. I could tell the difference between what was old stock and the new stock. I'm just wondering is this what you picked up on and have mistakenly labelled as being the difference between the multi packs.

Just read this...this may be the case but Multi-pack cans bought in the republic also taste diluted!

But 2-litre twin-pack bottles bought up north taste very unlike individual 2-litre bottles bought in the republic...these are far sweeter

thatsa spicy

astrofool wrote: »

So you think a crisp company has two seperate manufacturing lines, as in, two sets of chipping machines, two sets of cooking machines, two sets of flavouring machines so they can make smaller packets? Do you even realise what it costs to set up a production line like that, and how ridiculous that would be? They cook and prepare the crisps the same way, at the end, the machine which sorts them is set to a different weight per item, and is fed in smaller/bigger bags to suit.

I assumed this of course but you're correct, I ddn't make it obvious in my post.

rubadub

I have a habit of examining nutritional information on stuff, I never noticed a change in coke's carb/sugar content here, if it was diluted its carb content would be lower unless they upped the sugar and lowered the flavour or something. In the use they will use corn syrup so it could be different tasting, but I have always heard coke go out of their way to have their drinks taste identical around the world. Corn syrup is less sweet so they would use more to get the same sweetness, this would alter the density and it would taste "thicker". You could test 2 bottles with a wine hydrometer if you are really that interested.

If cans were chilled differently their might be a difference too, if buying a single can it is more likely to be very cold, than an off the shelf multipack.

BTW Mutlipack 2L's are usually more expensive than single 2L bottles in tesco.

You would have to do proper blind tasting, a lot of it is in peoples heads, in the beer forum a bunch of beer connoisseurs tasted various stouts blind and were unable to tell the difference of most, when most would swear blind they could tell beamish from guinness.

LaughOrDie

randomer wrote: »

Red bull says on the can that it gives you wings. I drank five cans and didn't get any wings.

Am I supposed to report them?

I drank 5 cans and got the scuts!

Ghandee

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

For what it's worth I am a huge fan of Coke Zero myself so much so that I could tell the difference in taste between the various bottling plants, be it imported from outside of Ireland or from a UK source or indeed a different taste again for european production. Last year production of our coke moved to NI and the taste changed slightly. I could tell the difference between what was old stock and the new stock. I'm just wondering is this what you picked up on and have mistakenly labelled as being the difference between the multi packs.

Lol, don't get me started on coke zero next!
Why is it, that in same shop, coke and diet coke are both €1.79 for 2litre bottles but coke zero is €2.79?
before any of the defenders of the small retailers attack me, multipack (2x2lire) coke, diet coke, AND coke zero are 3.40? Cans of all the coke are the same price?
My summary is: coke zero is getting really popular and is seen as a healthier alternative (in my opinion it's the nicest coke) so, even though it couldn't cost more to make as proven in the cans, the shops are charging us more fir the most popular!
Hence, rip off!

astrofool

It's not rip off, it's supply and demand, buy the cheaper product. They're not tricking you in any way, nor are they charging an extortionate price for it.

The only difference between single and multi pack 2l bottles is the label machine gets fed a different label.

Ghandee

astrofool wrote: »

It's not rip off, it's supply and demand, buy the cheaper product. They're not tricking you in any way, nor are they charging an extortionate price for it.

The only difference between single and multi pack 2l bottles is the label machine gets fed a different label.

Spar American Cola. .29c for 3ltr bottles for me from now on so.
Hicup, burrrrrrp, vomit:D

animaal

I don't think this is as simple as "you get what the packaging says, so no problem".

I know of a particular pub where common practice was for the owners refill the glass coke/7up bottles from the big 2l bottles. Now, it's in order to evade income tax, and that's wrong. But leaving that aside, is it a rip-off for the customers? The customer is getting whatever volume and ingredients are displayed on the bottle. However, I'd feel ripped off. If I wanted a "splash" from a 2l bottle, I'd expect to pay less for it.

astrofool

animaal wrote: »

I don't think this is as simple as "you get what the packaging says, so no problem".

I know of a particular pub where common practice was for the owners refill the glass coke/7up bottles from the big 2l bottles. Now, it's in order to evade income tax, and that's wrong. But leaving that aside, is it a rip-off for the customers? The customer is getting whatever volume and ingredients are displayed on the bottle. However, I'd feel ripped off. If I wanted a "splash" from a 2l bottle, I'd expect to pay less for it.

In this case the owner is not selling a sealed bottle of coke straight from the supplier, and is selling it as if it is (does he re-cap the bottle?), this isn't a rip off, it's illegal. (how does this avoid income tax?)

However, the dispensers you see in McD or BK are even cheaper than the 2l bottles, and DO have mixing issues (the gloop is mixed with fizzy water on the way into the cup), this can cause taste differences. Many pubs use these.

animaal

astrofool wrote: »

In this case the owner is not selling a sealed bottle of coke straight from the supplier, and is selling it as if it is (does he re-cap the bottle?), this isn't a rip off, it's illegal. (how does this avoid income tax?)

However, the dispensers you see in McD or BK are even cheaper than the 2l bottles, and DO have mixing issues (the gloop is mixed with fizzy water on the way into the cup), this can cause taste differences. Many pubs use these.

This pub owner did recap the bottles. The caps didn't get very bent coming off, so they seemed to pop back on easily enough.

It avoids income tax because the revenue cooperate with the drinks wholesalers - or at least that's what the pub owners believed. you can't claim to have sold 100 soft drinks if the revenue knows you bought 200 from the wholesaler. So they bought 2l bottles in supermarkets instead. They could underdeclare the amount they were selling.

Anyway, as you are also saying, I would have felt ripped off if I was a customer. But I think there isn't a big difference between this and reselling multi-packs. A pub routinely opens the drinks for customers, so the customer is never sold a sealed product anyway.

katkin

Rulmeq wrote: »

I have to take you up on the rip-off part, against my better judgment, because I always get dogs abuse when I say this, but because we are in a capitalistic market there is no such thing as a rip-off. If you feel that you are being charged too much, you are free to shop elsewhere, if you also feel that there aren't enough alternatives then you are also free to set up in direct competition with them. The only people being ripped off are those who are willing to be.

Of course there is a rip-off going on in Ireland, but it's happening in the non-capitalist portions of the market, the only sectors where prices aren't falling are in the sectors provided by government or government related monopolies. In an era of deflation it is abhorrent that prices are increasing in these sectors.

Meh, I'm going to regret hitting submit on this

In fairness you are right. I don't think its ok to charge exorbitant prices and shops like this take advantage of their local positions, not everyone has a car or has time to face big crowds in larger supermarkets, but ultimately you have a good point, no one makes us shop there. I still have no sympathy for them though and don't think they should get away with stunt pulling like selling off multipacks individually.

LeBash

Gucky, the real question is, why coke zero when your eating crisps and a mars icecream.

If you say taste, we all know your a liar