The Frontline: Statist Ireland and the Big Chill

Permabear

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i57dwun4yb1pt8

and you know why this is ?

because the government are the prime example of a molly coddled bunch of parasites with a gigantic sense of entitlement -

they set the example - and people follow it .

AJ STYLES

i agree donegalfella, but sadly this is the dominant mindset in the country which is only further propagated by this leftist media we have.

it will be hard to reverse this sense of entitlement.

lugha

donegalfella wrote: »

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I think it was clear from about 1 minute into the show that Kenny wanted a whinge show. Perhaps these get better ratings or something. But I agree, it was a bit depressing listening to all the moaning.

gnxx

I thought that the guy who suggested that people clear paths in front of their own property was an arrogant ****.

On Thursday, John Gormley stated that individuals could not be sued if somebody slipped on a path that somebody made an attempt to clear. I wouldn't believe or trust Gormley. If somebody was sued, you could imagine Gormley stating "well that was the advice I had at the time".

Also, people didn't have the time to clear footpaths. Retail sector returned to work on the 26th and many businesses reopened soon afterwards. People were suffering commutes of over 5 hours on top of a full working day.

We pay considerable taxes -- both national and local. We should expect that the paths should be cleared with the guys who have equipment, funding and manpower.

I've never heard such rubbish in all my life.

sceptre

gnxx wrote: »

On Thursday, John Gormley stated that individuals could not be sued if somebody slipped on a path that somebody made an attempt to clear. I wouldn't believe or trust Gormley.

You'd be right not to. If Gormley said that, he's got it completely wrong (and probably backwards)

silverharp

gnxx wrote: »

We pay considerable taxes -- both national and local. We should expect that the paths should be cleared with the guys who have equipment, funding and manpower.

I've never heard such rubbish in all my life.

You have never been to Germany then, you get fined if you dont clear the path, and they dont wait for a fall. The Homer Simpson slogan of "cant someone else do it " doesnt always work

southsiderosie

I can understand wanting the government to clear the roads and to keep areas in front of government buildings clear of ice and snow. But do people really think the government should shovel out in front of their homes and businesses? Hm. Times like these I feel very American.

It actually doesn't take that long to shovel, and it's a grand reason to get out of the house - you warm up pretty quickly, and it's good exercise.

There aren't any enterprising teenagers out looking for shoveling jobs? Given the state of the job market, hey it's a way to make some decent pocket money.

Dan_B

A lot of the criticism is OTT but the least I thought I could expect was:
Main roads kept clear.
Public transport kept running.
Paths cleared around bus and train stops / stations.
None of this was done.

Government and local authorities get a fail on this one.

FlutterinBantam

This in my opinion throws the spotlight on the ridiculous length of the Xmas break.

The whole country, particularly the public sector shuts down for ten days and nobody seems to be in charge if things go pear shaped.

I agree with DF that we depend far too much on 'others' to do what we should do for ourselves.

We were caught out badly here, and this debacle showed the paucity and amateurishness of Govt. both at local and national level.

Made a total pig's ear of the whole thing.

RedPlanet

southsiderosie wrote: »

There aren't any enterprising teenagers out looking for shoveling jobs? Given the state of the job market, hey it's a way to make some decent pocket money.

No, you won't find a single one.
Why?
Since people have this absurd expectation that the Council should do it, they'd be mad to pay some kid money for it.

Pyridine

i agree donegalfella, but sadly this is the dominant mindset in the country which is only further propagated by this leftist media we have.

LOL!!!!!

You guys crack me up!! Here was I looking out the window all depressed about the weather than I read this!! Tony O'Reilly a leftist!!! LOL!!!!!

ednwireland

well our neighbours got grit sand and gravel we did the roads near me (4wd tractors are great) so we could get out cant understand why people in estates didnt get out and clear pavements.
we just went down the grit store and got it (ok in country areas you have more access to 10 ton trailers etc)

and the one thing the council should have done is provide grit to people who wanted to do something.

our roads were treacharous from the 18th december (and still are at the moment but getting more passable )

as far as the people complaining about falling, i was out in my work shoes no bother not slipping (much) on ice put on the hiking boots i was all over the place.

Also the complete shutdown of public services between christmas and new year (and no doubt most of the week before and after, shows we cant do this and they need to make sure that emergency numbers are there.

the only thing that did cross my mind is that the army should be on standby to deliver food and fuel to people in country areas (i'm sure plenty of parts of meath and kildare were hard enough to get to) as they have all terrain vehicles

but i agree with people doing things for themselves i was gritting my drive on sunday afternoon

gnxx wrote: »

We pay considerable taxes -- both national and local. We should expect that the paths should be cleared with the guys who have equipment, funding and manpower.

I've never heard such rubbish in all my life.

i've never heard such rubbish either, sorry but how much council tax do you pay ? the only local taxes in this country are motor tax and business rates, do you reallly think councils have the manpower to go round clearing every estate, when i was a kid everyone was out clearing the paths when it snowed.
maybe i'm just odd not expecting the council to do everything (and i'm not irish)

and as far as i can see the show was a winge fest

dan_d

Didn't see the programme, but totally agree with Donegalfella. Any other country we wouldn't even be discussing this - but we excel at mé féin-ism in this country (an Irish phrase for a peculiarly Irish problem)
Fair enough we don't get much weather like this and we've been caught out on the grit situation. But honestly - wouldn't kill most people to clear their own paths, and what on earth did people feel Noel Dempsey's return was going to do for them?
Main roads should have been kept clear and bus routes aswell. If we ALL had to clear our footpaths, the likelihood of suing may in fact have reduced.
I've said it before - socially, we're years behind the rest of Europe. We're like a 12 yr old in a room full of adults. Kinda heading for maturity but still with the characteristics and selfishness of a small child. Why shouldn't we clear the paths? If we're living life in such fear of suing, we should never set foot outside the door. As for finding the time - they find the time in every other country in the world to clear worse snow. We have no excuses and we've embarassed ourselves - again.

spank_inferno

I 100% agree with DonegalFella.
We are so molly-coddled in this state we can hardly do anything for ourselves.

Taking my road as an example (wicklow town).
Everywhere is on a hill, so its hard to get around.

The council left plenty of 1 tonne bags of sand at various points along the non-essential roads. They worked on many of them themselves.
Some places were too steep & icy for the trucks to get up so the residents did it themselves.

Last week my father finding it too icy to get his van down the hill, called into work and spent the next 5-6 hrs completely sanding the entire 300-400 meter road they live on. With a shovel and wheel-barrow he thinks he spread the bulk of a tonne himself.

result: Clear access for all.

People need to wake up.
The council cant be everywhere
They don't have infinite resources.
The good lord gave us two arms to use ourselves.
.... so use them

imme

OP, maybe you might give your definition of Statism, in reference to the thread title. I think it would help clarify the title.

lugha

Dan_B wrote: »

A lot of the criticism is OTT but the least I thought I could expect was:
Main roads kept clear.
Public transport kept running.
Paths cleared around bus and train stops / stations.
None of this was done.

Government and local authorities get a fail on this one.

To the best of my knowledge the main roads were kept open. But the issue of roads in Dublin last Wed and the way it was handled on the program was interesting. O Cuiv gave to my mind a very satisfactory explanation as to the cause of the chaos. Essentially the snow, freeze and rush hour traffic came in quick succession, so there was really nothing that could be done. This is life. Sometime sh*t happens and it's nobody's fault. But the whinge brigade were not having this. They even had the laughable suggestion that it might have been possible to persuade everybody not to use the roads for a couple of hours.
I don't know if it is peculiarity of the Irish alone but we have this utter incapacity to accept that sometimes, unforeseen events will happen and it doesn't have to be anybody's fault.

Permabear

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imme

donegalfella wrote: »

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I was just struggling to understand the title, were you trying to say that Ireland (state) is statist and then go on to talk about this in relation to recent events. Were you trying to say that the Irish (people) are statist not necessarily that Ireland is statist (which it isn't) and then go on to raise the issue of Irish peoples' reaction/response to recent events. I trust you'll understand my question.

imme

sceptre wrote: »

You'd be right not to. If Gormley said that, he's got it completely wrong (and probably backwards)

well which is it?, wrong or backwards? (backwards?, what does this mean)

Permabear

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ei.sdraob

DaDumTish wrote: »

and you know why this is ?

because the government are the prime example of a molly coddled bunch of parasites with a gigantic sense of entitlement -

they set the example - and people follow it .

who elected the government?

imme

donegalfella wrote: »

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oh yeah it's enormous:eek:, huge welfare state:rolleyes:, our government regulates and raises taxes, wow that's so different from other countries, 'normal' countries. We must be an exceptional country, quick somebody get on to the Guinness Book of Records, Ireland is a statist country:eek:, I'm in shock.

You still seem to relating a statist outlook (of the individual) with the de facto position of us being a statist country (you say Ireland is such).

sceptre

imme wrote: »

well which is it?, wrong or backwards? (backwards?, what does this mean)

Backwards is something that is the wrong way around. It's a common word down our way. Or assways as we sometimes say in different variants. Wrong, of course, is incorrect. The two are distinct but not mutually exclusive. And assuming that gnxx remembers Gormley's statement correctly, Gormley's both wrong and has it backwards (ie, you can and a reversal works well). As distinct from backward, which I don't believe him to be but I don't know. I included it as an emphasis redundancy to be honest, I sometimes do that. It's a side-discussion tbh, PM might have worked better.

Dan_B

lugha wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge the main roads were kept open. But the issue of roads in Dublin last Wed and the way it was handled on the program was interesting. O Cuiv gave to my mind a very satisfactory explanation as to the cause of the chaos. Essentially the snow, freeze and rush hour traffic came in quick succession, so there was really nothing that could be done. This is life. Sometime sh*t happens and it's nobody's fault. But the whinge brigade were not having this. They even had the laughable suggestion that it might have been possible to persuade everybody not to use the roads for a couple of hours.
I don't know if it is peculiarity of the Irish alone but we have this utter incapacity to accept that sometimes, unforeseen events will happen and it doesn't have to be anybody's fault.

I didn't say the main roads weren't kept open, I said clear, and they clearly where not. And indeed some roads where closed completley.Dublin bus terminated service completley twice and ran limited service for several days.
Bus eireann maintained most service, albeit delayed.
The weather was forecast so where is the unforseen circumstances?
Eamonn O Cuiv's explanantion was we have insufficent supplies for grit and it's nobodys fault, then it never is with this government.
How anybody outside the public service could find his explanation safisfactory defies belief.

No salt, no salt, no salt was his cry for anyone who missed it.

imme

donegalfella wrote: »

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DF who are you talking about the 'lone voice guy'?
Do you mean Declan Power (Security Analyst) who was up on the platform with P Kenny and E O'Cuiv. He spoke coherently and convincingly. He gave a good overiew of events. He wasn't treated derisively by Pat Kenny imo. He spoke good old fashioned common sense. He didn't say that people can do everything for themselves, I'm not saying that you said he did btw.

re. the people vowing to vote or FG night time round, some might also vow to vote for Amhrán Nua next time round:D.

ei.sdraob

Dan_B wrote: »

Eamonn O Cuiv's explanantion was we have insufficent supplies for grit and it's nobodys fault, then it never is with this government.

is there some "green hippie" reason as to why sand from beaches cant be used?

and anyone else remember the guy on RTE news few days ago, standing in front of a mountain of "certified" grit saying come and get it, and that no one is buying it of him??

lugha

Dan_B wrote: »

I didn't say the main roads weren't kept open, I said clear, and they clearly where not.

And how would you suppose the government, or anyone else, would keep the roads clear? Issue a King Canute type command to forbid the snow to fall?

Dan_B wrote: »

Eamonn O Cuiv's explanantion was we have insufficent supplies for grit and it's nobodys fault, then it never is with this government.
How anybody outside the public service could find his explanation safisfactory defies belief.

No salt, no salt, no salt was his cry for anyone who missed it.

Yes, we were short of salt. But if we had bought massive stock piles of the stuff last Summer, you can be sure that the same whinging would be going on then about wasting money.
And in the case of the Dublin freeze up, that it notwith O Cuiv said. He said that the freeze coincided with rush hour so it was not possible to get out and grit the roads. In other words, one of these things that happen and cannot be avoided.

lugha

ei.sdraob wrote: »

is there some "green hippie" reason as to why sand from beaches cant be used?

and anyone else remember the guy on RTE news few days ago, standing in front of a mountain of "certified" grit saying come and get it, and that no one is buying it of him??

I heard someone (can't recall who) saying that what he was offering was not suitable (can't recall why it was not suitable either come to think of it )

Dan_B

lugha wrote: »

I heard someone (can't recall who) saying that what he was offering was not suitable (can't recall why it was not suitable either come to think of it )

Are you related to Bertie Ahern

lugha

Dan_B wrote: »

Are you related to Bertie Ahern

I'd say we're all related to him somehow.