E-Cigarettes - The original thread

Oh_Noes

mb123 wrote: »

The pharmacist and owner who is refusing to stock them.I smoke myself so I was interested in the reason he wouldn't recommend them and those are the reasons he gave me.In fairness the company that were supplying them didn't deny this.

That is interesting. If it was actually a valid claim and had been proven by studies or an official policy of a medical body I'm sure it would be readily available and widely cited all over the place.

Probably best not to take that pharmacist too seriously.

mb123

It is readily available info,I updated my post.And I do take what a pharmacist says seriously they are health professionals and generally don't refuse to stock money making items without good reason.

mewso

mb123 wrote: »

The pharmacist and owner who is refusing to stock them.I smoke myself so I was interested in the reason he wouldn't recommend them and those are the reasons he gave me.In fairness the company that were supplying them didn't deny this.
Also just found this: FDA’s Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis—part of the agency's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research—analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of e-cigarette samples.

One sample was found to contain diethylene glycol, a toxic chemical used in antifreeze. Several other samples were found to contain carcinogens, including nitrosamines.

There are known issues with PG in terms of alergic reaction but nothing serious. The FDA study has been criticised on more than one occasion. For example no comparrison was done with NRTs which contain similar amounts of diethylene glycol.

More studies are needed and by independent groups that have no agenda one way or the other but it is essentially inaccurate to say they cause smoking related diseases since it's not smoking for starters and there is 0 evidence that they cause any kind of disease.

wingnut32

Ive seen some stuff floating around about the carcinogens in the eliquid, thing is the level is a 1000 times less than a real cigarette in the quoted reports.

mb123

I agree mewso, more unbiased independent studies do need to be carried out to determine the side effects etc of e cigs, my original query was about the control of your intake of nicotine? Is there any way to tell how much nicotine you are consuming? Has anybody reduced their nicotine intake per day as a result of vaping?

nesf

mb123 wrote: »

I agree mewso, more unbiased independent studies do need to be carried out to determine the side effects etc of e cigs, my original query was about the control of your intake of nicotine? Is there any way to tell how much nicotine you are consuming? Has anybody reduced their nicotine intake per day as a result of vaping?

It's impossible, without blood tests, to know your nicotine intake either from smoking or vaping. What we can work with is measured averages which show far lower nicotine levels from vaping as opposed to smoking. As such if you used an e-cigarette as often as you smoked you'd expect to be taking in less nicotine overall. You can't know for certain though, you might buck the trend and not follow the average.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

well i was smoking 20 fags a day about 8 months ago, if I went an hour without a cigarette I got cranky as hell and the urge to smoke was ****ing strong.

now i'm on 11mg nicotine juice (started on 24mg), and a few times now I've had to go do stuff and forgot to bring my e-cig. I was fine for 5-6 hours without it, I wanted a smoke once for about ten seconds but just shrugged it off and waited until I got home . I use my e-cig alot because I enjoy the flavours, and I still enjoy the little bit of nicotine but as it stands it's the habit that keeps me vaping more than the nicotine.

mewso

mb123 wrote: »

I agree mewso, more unbiased independent studies do need to be carried out to determine the side effects etc of e cigs, my original query was about the control of your intake of nicotine? Is there any way to tell how much nicotine you are consuming? Has anybody reduced their nicotine intake per day as a result of vaping?

I think pharmacies are looking at it the wrong way though if they want to sell e-cigs as a giving up aid. Yes it's highly probably that most people who use e-cigs stop smoking but the evidence is anecdotal at best and the e-cig business has already gotten in trouble for selling itself as a quit aid. It's an active policy now to describe them as a smoking alternative.

I am sure plenty of people here have reduced nicotine levels wheras there will also be plenty like me who have settled on a nicotine level they are happy with and sticking with it as it will remain so much healthier than smoking anyway.

Pharmacies can't really claim they are a quit aid as it's not proven so they are better off selling it as a healthier alternative.

mb123

Thanks for the feedback,I only smoke around 10 a day so think i'll just try one of the traditional nrt methods because i just want to give up completely.Vaping seems like a better alternative for people who smoke a lot and just can't seem to give up any other way. Is a pity that proper studies haven't been carried out though, would like to know long term effects of using them even just to give people the pros and/or cons when they come in to me looking for them.

angecork

Hi all, new to all this, just joined boards today so I could post as I've been reading this thread the last few days, (there's alot to get through) Just basically need to know a few things, I smoke 20 - 30 john player a day, I have ordered a Joye ego t starter pack from Vapour Ireland, expecting it tomorrow, I also ordered the 50ml menthol, really need to know how many extra batteries and attomisers I should order and which ones would be best, having read how they can give up all of a sudden I really dont want to be stuck without anything for any period of time, this is my last chance to give up so hope it works!

nesf

mb123 wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback,I only smoke around 10 a day so think i'll just try one of the traditional nrt methods because i just want to give up completely.Vaping seems like a better alternative for people who smoke a lot and just can't seem to give up any other way. Is a pity that proper studies haven't been carried out though, would like to know long term effects of using them even just to give people the pros and/or cons when they come in to me looking for them.

Main cons are: it's not really a quitting method. People have quit with them but most from what I can see just switch from smoking to vaping. Vaping is certainly better for you than smoking, so from a harm reduction standpoint this is a good thing but if you want to quit and not pick up a new hobby then traditional NRT might be the best bet. That said, the issue for me was that I enjoyed smoking and nicotine addiction which made it immensely difficult for me to quit using NRT whenever I tried in the past.

The other possibility is that you could be one of the small number of people allergic to PG (can't remember the spelling of the full name off the top of my head) and have some uncomfortable reactions to it (think hay fever like symptoms with rashes/hives/etc). But you can just change to vegetable glycerol and get around this problem though.

Oh_Noes

angecork wrote: »

Hi all, new to all this, just joined boards today so I could post as I've been reading this thread the last few days, (there's alot to get through) Just basically need to know a few things, I smoke 20 - 30 john player a day, I have ordered a Joye ego t starter pack from Vapour Ireland, expecting it tomorrow, I also ordered the 50ml menthol, really need to know how many extra batteries and attomisers I should order and which ones would be best, having read how they can give up all of a sudden I really dont want to be stuck without anything for any period of time, this is my last chance to give up so hope it works!

You should be alright for batteries for the foreseeable future so it's probably best not to order any additional ones yet. You'll get two atomisers with the starter kit so you should be good to go for a while and if one gives up then you can use the other one. The few Irish websites that supply that stuff usually deliver next day if you order before lunchtime or so. Your starter kit should ideally keep you going for a while so don'y panic. Best of luck and I hope you get off the smokes.

mewso

Almost forgot my ProVari arrived last week. Some pics:-

nesf

mewso wrote: »

Almost forgot my ProVari arrived last week. Some pics:-

Enjoy the voltage dialing goodness. Honestly, I could never go back to a regular e-cig for anything other than LR attys now.

Esel

mb123 wrote: »

Also just found this: FDA’s Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis—part of the agency's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research—analyzed the ingredients in a small sample of cartridges from two leading brands of e-cigarette samples.

One sample was found to contain diethylene glycol, a toxic chemical used in antifreeze. Several other samples were found to contain carcinogens, including nitrosamines.

Did you find the above on Wikipedia?

If so, you should really have quoted the full paragraph:

Food and Drug Administration

In May 2009, the Food and Drug Administration (USFDA) Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis tested the contents of 19 varieties of electronic cigarette cartridges produced by two vendors (NJoy and Smoking Everywhere). Diethylene glycol was detected in one of the cartridges manufactured by Smoking Everywhere. In addition, tobacco-specific nitrosamines (TSNAs), known cancer-causing agents, were detected in all of the cartridges from one brand and two of the cartridges from the other brand. The study found that the actual nicotine levels did not always correspond to the amount of nicotine the cartridges purported to contain. The analysis found traces of nicotine in some cartridges that claimed to be nicotine-free. Further concerns were raised over inconsistent amounts of nicotine delivered when drawing on the device. In July 2009, the FDA issued a press release discouraging the use of electronic cigarettes and repeating previously stated concerns that electronic cigarettes may be marketed to young people and lack appropriate health warnings.

The Electronic Cigarette Association said that the FDA testing was too "narrow to reach any valid and reliable conclusions.” Exponent, Inc., commissioned by one manufacturer to review the FDA's study in July 2009, objected to the FDA analysis of electronic cigarettes lacking comparisons to other FDA-approved nicotine replacement therapy products where similar levels of TSNA were detected. Exponent concluded that the FDA's study did not support the claims of potential adverse health effects from the use of electronic cigarettes.

Here's the link. There are cites in the above paragraph on that page.

Imo, there are a lot more dangerous chemicals in the air we breathe every day (in cities and towns at least).

angecork

Oh_Noes wrote: »

You should be alright for batteries for the foreseeable future so it's probably best not to order any additional ones yet. You'll get two atomisers with the starter kit so you should be good to go for a while and if one gives up then you can use the other one. The few Irish websites that supply that stuff usually deliver next day if you order before lunchtime or so. Your starter kit should ideally keep you going for a while so don'y panic. Best of luck and I hope you get off the smokes.

Thanks, arrived this morning so cant wait to try it, seems fairly big and heavy but i suppose thats just a matter of getting used to.. hope I like it!!!

nesf

angecork wrote: »

Thanks, arrived this morning so cant wait to try it, seems fairly big and heavy but i suppose thats just a matter of getting used to.. hope I like it!!!

You stop noticing the size after a few goes with it.

/That's what she said

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

got my clears today, all good so far.. its just weird being able to see the juice in the cartomiser. One strange thing is that the drip tip I have that fits perfectly into the black DCC is quite loose in the clear, it keeps wobbling and falls off when I put the e-cig in my pocket.

only a minor quibble, just strange that they;re not the same size

nesf

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

got my clears today, all good so far.. its just weird being able to see the juice in the cartomiser. One strange thing is that the drip tip I have that fits perfectly into the black DCC is quite loose in the clear, it keeps wobbling and falls off when I put the e-cig in my pocket.

only a minor quibble, just strange that they;re not the same size

Yeah I gave up using a drip tip with the clears. Just too loose for my tastes.

mewso

You boys must have a smaller tip than me. Mine fits nice and snug. Ooh Matron!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

from the pic you posted of your provari I think we have the same

curiouser and curiouser

Hellrazer

Just got my ego-t.Thanks for all the recommendations--its a great piece of kit--battery lasts all day--nearly 2 if Im lucky.One fill of the tank has done me all day aswell.There really is a serious throat hit off it--probably a bit too much for my liking if Im being honest.

So what determines throat hit?
Im using the high strength "tobacco" flavour--generic one I suppose.Doesnt have the mg on it--just says "tobacco high" on the bottle.

Maybe its too high?Should I switch to a lower one?Or is there another way of lowering the throat hit a bit?

nesf

Hellrazer wrote: »

Just got my ego-t.Thanks for all the recommendations--its a great piece of kit--battery lasts all day--nearly 2 if Im lucky.One fill of the tank has done me all day aswell.There really is a serious throat hit off it--probably a bit too much for my liking if Im being honest.

So what determines throat hit?
Im using the high strength "tobacco" flavour--generic one I suppose.Doesnt have the mg on it--just says "tobacco high" on the bottle.

Maybe its too high?Should I switch to a lower one?Or is there another way of lowering the throat hit a bit?

It's probably 18mg (generally), you could try a lower strength juice and see if that solves the throat hit problem for you. Worth a shot anyway.

Noreen1

Hellrazer wrote: »

Just got my ego-t.Thanks for all the recommendations--its a great piece of kit--battery lasts all day--nearly 2 if Im lucky.One fill of the tank has done me all day aswell.There really is a serious throat hit off it--probably a bit too much for my liking if Im being honest.

So what determines throat hit?
Im using the high strength "tobacco" flavour--generic one I suppose.Doesnt have the mg on it--just says "tobacco high" on the bottle.

Maybe its too high?Should I switch to a lower one?Or is there another way of lowering the throat hit a bit?

Is your e-juice PG or VG? (If it doesn't say on the bottle, it's probably VG.)

You could try some PG juice, for more vapour and less throat hit.
My OH started on the VG, and was complaining that it "burned the lungs out of him".
Switched to PG juice, and problem solved.

mewso

Noreen1 wrote: »

Is your e-juice PG or VG? (If it doesn't say on the bottle, it's probably VG.)

You could try some PG juice, for more vapour and less throat hit.
My OH started on the VG, and was complaining that it "burned the lungs out of him".
Switched to PG juice, and problem solved.

You may have it the wrong way round Noreen. PG is the default mainly and VG is considered the liquid that produces more vapour.

electron

Hellrazer wrote: »

Maybe its too high?Should I switch to a lower one?Or is there another way of lowering the throat hit a bit?

yeah, lower mg should do the trick. generally the TH depends on the mg + whether any spices have been added to the blend.

electron

wait... but where's the new forum, why are we still on this thread?

nesf

electron wrote: »

wait... but where's the new forum, why are we still on this thread?

Still waiting for it to be processed. Can take a while sometimes.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

weird problem with one of my new clears

the uh.. part that screws into the battery is staying screwed in.. but the clear plastic cover has become detached from it. so if I push it down, and hold the e-cig upright and steady I can vape.. but if I sit it down or anything it just starts sliding off, exposing the fibre inside.
i still get my flavour and vapour, but.. im kinda worried about how im gona refil the juice... might just have to throw this one out and try another one.

wingnut32

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

weird problem with one of my new clears

the uh.. part that screws into the battery is staying screwed in.. but the clear plastic cover has become detached from it. so if I push it down, and hold the e-cig upright and steady I can vape.. but if I sit it down or anything it just starts sliding off, exposing the fibre inside.
i still get my flavour and vapour, but.. im kinda worried about how im gona refil the juice... might just have to throw this one out and try another one.

I had this aswell but mine didnt leak as long as it was pushed back down.