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UPC Ultra changed to Extreme due to unfair usage
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good lad, that's the spirit. glad we finally agree on something.hightower1 wrote: »Lol hold on moriarty I think Vibe could be on to something....
cap is 250....
BUT its ok as he's paid for it...
He's doing nothing wrong
that particular argument has absolutely ZERO merit. what vibe DOES get that YOU don't is that UPC have been using this 250gb FUP since January 09 and have just increased the speed of their products by 50% to allow people to download more, faster AND are going to continue to increase the speed of their broadband products by 400% more in august this year. they wouldn't be doing this if they didn't think that their network could handle it. :rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »See what vibe doesnt get is that caps arent easily accessible as they arent very realistic for month to month use, if they are listed for all to see some types then see it as a target to reach every month, this then leads to loss of bandwadth and forces ISP's to drop the cap, word of mouth spreads that something's gone down and regardless of if anyone really got near the cap per month its still negative.
aah, the self appointed internet police telling everyone what they can and can't do. do you get a uniform with hat job? :rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »A cap of 250 a month is great, but its not realistically meant to be used month after month, realistically around 100gb per month wouldnt cause bandwidth issues BUT the 250 cap is handy if you need for some reason to use it all in one month then back to normal.
how about this as an idea. YOU go about your own business and use whatever bandwidth you want to use and i'll just leave you to it because it's got feck all to do with me or anyone else other than UPC what you do or don't download and YOU can do the same and let me and everyone else decide what we're going to download from month to month. who knows, maybe if you do that, you'll figure out what you've been missing on the net and your own usage will shoot up considerably.
and one more time, just for the sake of it: just because YOU don't use the internet enough to justify using up a 250gb cap, it doesn't give you the right to dictate what everyone else does with their own internet connection. I bet you stand around at petrol stations telling people how much fuel they can put in their car based on how much you drive. :rolleyes:
just out of curiosity, i don't suppose you wan to post up your own stats do you just so we know you're not preaching abstinence whilst secretly downloading a terabyte of data a month. you seem so interested in what everyone else is doing with theirinternet connection it would be pretty hypocritical of you if you didn't want to share your own usage stats with us. :rolleyes:
ah, so now it's the consumers fault if a company offers a product with a false sales pitch is it? yeah, good argument there mate. :rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »So an ISP has 2 options.... put a high cap, review average bandwidth use on the network and see that 250 is great cause its a good sales line, its good for the customer as it allows a buffer run zone from the average use also.....
OR, (and I know this is a totally radical concept, so bear with me on this one) they look at all of their users usage patterns over the last x number of months/years and set the limit at a level that THEY (they being the people who own and manage said network) think is reasonable fo their users and that their network can handle AND THEN, so as not to exclude anyone, offer a product for the remaining 0.1% of extremely heavy users who require even more bandwidth than that so that they have their whole customer base covered and aren't excluding anyone. :rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »Or they have to assume that people start using every bit of the cap per month and then realize that 250 per month is completely unworkable and then have to lower the cap for everyone.
anyone worth a handful of table salt, never mind 'tech salt' would have enough sense to know that that doesn't tend to happen due to the diversity of users and that there will always be a wide range of user requirements for any network and that there will always be a percentage of users wo make the most of what is there, just as there will be a percentage of those who hardly use it at all. :rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »Anyone work their tech salt as it were would immediately realize that if every single subscriber on the upc network started using all of their cap per month for only one month together the network simply could not handle this (let alone the bandwidth being so bottlenecked it'd be impossible to do).
you *might* have almost had a tiny weeny bit of a point there were it not for the glaringly obvious fact that UPC have just upgraded all their customers to significantly faster speeds with very much faster speeds promised for later this year which will undoubtably come with a higher FUP. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:hightower1 wrote: »No network in Ireland and very few in the world could handle every subscriber doing this. So yup they are breaking no contractual agreement and are truly using a feature of their connection they pay for to the last ..... but they have also screwed their own ISP and will force them to respond by lowering the cap in future. Good idea alright, brainstorm.
and yes, that last one was well worth three rolleyes due to how unbelievably pointless it was as an argument. and yes, that was a lot of rolleyes in general, but when you come up with a valid argument, I promise to stop using them. I won't be holding my breath though, I haven't needed to so far.
come to think of it, i still have not seen a single valid argument for anyone using up to 250gb on the ultra package or over 250gb on the extreme package, doubly so given the recent and forthcoming HUGE speed increases. until someone can offer a valid argument taking this into account, i fail to see any problem here.
the fact of the matter is, I personally use approx. 250gb per month at the moment and try ad keep wthin the limits of what UPC allow on the ultra package, but not because they are limiting me, I get my broadband costs paid back anyway and could just as easy expense the extreme package as I do with the ultra package, but the 250gb FUP pretty much does me.
I'm not aiming for 250gb at all, it's just where it tends to fall, give or take 10-20gb, aside from the odd time when I could do with a little more towards the last few days of the month, but I wait until the 1st of the next month and it all works itself out.
even if UPC raised the FUP to 1tb per month or removed it completely, I don't currently see my usage going much over 250gb and probably never more than 300gb unless I find something else to do that uses a lot of bandwidth.
but if we're all honest, the reason internet speeds go up at all is because people DO find more to do on the net and it uses up more bandwidth which is how things move on and on, just the same as pc speeds and everything else in the world that's constantly evolving.0 -
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hightower1 wrote: »Lol hold on moriarty I think Vibe could be on to something....
cap is 250....
Using this to the last mb per month causes bandwidth issues for everyone else on that line....
BUT its ok as he's paid for it...
He's doing nothing wrong so the only way to solve things like this is for UPC to lower the hammer on the cap!! Good idea. Lower the cap upc! That way we can still use what we pay for to the last drop getting value for money and not effect other users bandwidth wise.
See what vibe doesnt get is that caps arent easily accessible as they arent very realistic for month to month use, if they are listed for all to see some types then see it as a target to reach every month, this then leads to loss of bandwadth and forces ISP's to drop the cap, word of mouth spreads that something's gone down and regardless of if anyone really got near the cap per month its still negative.
A cap of 250 a month is great, but its not realistically meant to be used month after month, realistically around 100gb per month wouldnt cause bandwidth issues BUT the 250 cap is handy if you need for some reason to use it all in one month then back to normal.
So an ISP has 2 options.... put a high cap, review average bandwidth use on the network and see that 250 is great cause its a good sales line, its good for the customer as it allows a buffer run zone from the average use also.....
Or they have to assume that people start using every bit of the cap per month and then realize that 250 per month is completely unworkable and then have to lower the cap for everyone.
Anyone work their tech salt as it were would immediately realize that if every single subscriber on the upc network started using all of their cap per month for only one month together the network simply could not handle this (let alone the bandwidth being so bottlenecked it'd be impossible to do).No network in Ireland and very few in the world could handle every subscriber doing this. So yup they are breaking no contractual agreement and are truly using a feature of their connection they pay for to the last ..... but they have also screwed their own ISP and will force them to respond by lowering the cap in future. Good idea alright, brainstorm.
This mantra would work in the mid nineties .....maybe
Infrastructure Infrastructure Infrastructure Infrastructure ...or the lack of
bandwidth and back haul issues are always used here to justify capping and throttling ....0 -
sorry Moriarty i've always had a lot of respect for you, you've been here a long time and you're normally "firm but fair" and pretty much always right to boot, but I'm just not seeing it in that last post as it doesn't make much sense, so i'm going to have to pick it apart, sorry.
retorting my conjecture about who uses 30mbps broadband with conjecture your own? seems a tad weak as an argument.That's a ridiculous thing to say.
A lot (read: far more than your "no one") of people would prefer that anything they do choose to download gets downloaded quickly. Most people's concern isn't with massive leech queues and how much they can download, it's that whatever they do choose to download comes down quickly.
i also think it's quite a bit of a stretch that very many UPC customers at all would pick 30mbps broadband over 15mbps simply to get a few files 'quicker'. how many sources could you even name that would allow you to download anything faster than 15mbps other than those dedicated to high usage users downloading a LOT of files like premium RS users, newgroups, private ftp sites etc?
with 15mbps broadband you could download a 700mb file in 9 minutes, exactly how fast would you imagine a casual downloader wants to download stuff exactly?
browsing the net, OS updates, driver updates, email, even downloading TV shows and movies would rarely stretch a 15mbps connection at all, so what exactly would someone be doing with a 30mbps connection other than heavy downloading from multiple high speed sources at once?
i've actually been considering downgrading to the 15mbps connection simply because even my own average usage would rarely stretch 15mbps and normally doesn't go over 10mbps the vast majority of the time, never mind the 30mbps that i currently have, but then there's the part of me that wants to see the 60mbps or 120mbps upgrades and to upgrade my home network to gigabit just to see how fast it really is, even though I don't need it.
BUT, at least I'm using what I have now. Like I said though, flat out, 24/7 you could break 250gb per month on downloads alone on a 1mbps connection, never mind a 30mbps one.
again, totally conjecture on your part and also a very big stretch imho, so maybe you could explain how so exactly to clear that up?Quite often these people don't download any more than a regular user of <50gb/month, but they make full use of their 30mbit connection.
Trying to cloud debate around download amounts by somehow trying to tie it to connection bandwidth is facetious and also obviously just incorrect.
whether someone uses it to download an average of 1.5gb per day for a month or 50gb in one big 4 hour download session (or anything in between), there's no way you're going to convince many people that they're 'making the most of' a 30mbps connection. i'm downloading 250gb a month and i'm not even close to 'making the most of it' myself.
show me some facts and figures to prove your statement and i might be more inclined to give it some merit, but for now i think I'll stick with my assertion that broadband speeds 8 times faster than the national average are aimed squarely at the types of people who are likely to make the most of it.
and if tying download limits to connection speed is so wrong, then how come pretty much every single ISP that has download limits in place on some or all of it's packages offers higher caps/fups on faster connections? seems very much to me like you should check your facts before you start pointing the finger and using phrases like "facetious and also obviously just incorrect". if you're going to try and insult someone at least have the decency to try and make some effort towards being right.0 -
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