How is this funny/normal?

Dannyboy83

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1063952

This program is about a bunch of guys who've been on the dole for ages and just spend all their time drinking.
I've no idea how this is funny at all.

These guys should be looking for work abroad and thinking about emigrating. Nice to know where a massive chunk of our paychecks are going.

I couldn't tell you the last time I've had money spare to go on the piss. And I work for a living.
The government should double the price of drink in Ireland, like in Russia:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010100607.html

I never thought I'd be one of those people but I'm actually thinking about making a complaint to RTE about this program.

fontinalis

For some reason pouring drink down your neck is more or less lauded in Ireland.

Nehaxak

What's the story with all the hate toward unemployed people lately ? Have all you IBEC heads lost interest in blaming the public service or something ?

Always seems to be the case that so called "public" opinion from a few, builds up towards an inevitable cut in money/wages for whatever group is being picked on.

Honestly wonder sometimes if half the discussion started on forums or other related sites, and those started within the media, are all really government/IBEC workers shilling so as to create propaganda against whatever group they've decided to pick on that month - so as to then introduce changes as if to make the public at large think it's what's being asked for.

If you don't like your job, don't like your wages, just leave your job/the country and go elsewhere or you go emigrate - stop blaming everyone else, it's getting tiring reading the same old propaganda over and over...

Nonoperational

I hate unemployed wasters who make no effort to get a job and go around drinking the money that tax payers have to donate to them every month. No problems saying that.

Obviously the people that don't abuse it and are looking for work are a totally different story.

Dannyboy83

Nehaxak wrote: »

What's the story with all the hate toward unemployed people lately ? Have all you IBEC heads lost interest in blaming the public service or something ?

Always seems to be the case that so called "public" opinion from a few, builds up towards an inevitable cut in money/wages for whatever group is being picked on.

Honestly wonder sometimes if half the discussion started on forums or other related sites, and those started within the media, are all really government/IBEC workers shilling so as to create propaganda against whatever group they've decided to pick on that month - so as to then introduce changes as if to make the public at large think it's what's being asked for.

If you don't like your job, don't like your wages, just leave your job/the country and go elsewhere or you go emigrate - stop blaming everyone else, it's getting tiring reading the same old propaganda over and over...

We have been/are thinking about emigrating, but why should we have to leave?
I'm the one working and contributing, remember?

In previous meltdowns, the unemployed/unskilled left Ireland and those with a job/skilled stayed at home. Now the reverse appears to be happening - the unskilled are staying here and the skilled are emigrating.
Some people have no choice, have commitments.
Clearly these guys do have a choice - but they, by their own admission, spend Thursday to Sunday drinking at the pub, and Mon-Wed recovering. Payday Thursday, they are back down the pub.

There is nothing wrong with my job, I'm happy with it.
I'm not happy with handing over a colossal chunk of my wages to people who are on a perma piss-up, when myself and my girlfriend didn't even have cash to buy each other xmas presents, and my girlfriend isn't entitled to a cent because we live together and I pay rent myself - not the government.

If people genuinely need assistance, fair enough.
I find this very difficult to justify.

Dannyboy83

Nehaxak wrote: »

If you don't like your job, don't like your wages, just leave your job/the country and go elsewhere or you go emigrate - stop blaming everyone else, it's getting tiring reading the same old propaganda over and over...

How about a little incentive for the normal joe bloggs who is bank rolling this current fiasco 'not' to leave?
Wouldn't that make more sense?

Denerick

Wasters in small towns dreaming of where their next pint is coming from. I've seen enough of them to last me a lifetime. Move on, ignore. Its the only response.

Nehaxak

Grand yeah, I can understand some of what you're saying and where you're coming from but people who are unemployed are not responsible for the shambles this country is in, the banks and the inept government are - so take it out on them.

I'm not married and am cohabiting with 2 children yet I'm the same in that we cannot get the tax benefits of being married unless we do actually get married. I blame the ineptitude in government departments and Irish law for that failing, not unemployed people.

If you ever lose you job, and I hope you don't, it would be nice to think you could have some backup available to you for all the taxes you've paid out over the years (JSB) if you do have to claim social welfare.

This government and severe lack of ability and productivity in our public services (where the largest proportion of your taxes are going!) are to blame for the countries failing, not even to mention the joke that is NAMA and the amount of money your taxes are being spent on to support the very people who have brought this country to it's knee's.

The Unemployed are way way down the pecking order of people to blame.

thatsa spicy

To be honest, those type of people are going nowhere fast. They'll wake up one day when they hit 35 and realise that they've wasted their lives. Anybody with ambition and zero ties would likely leave for a country offering chances to better themselves.

That life will become more and more depressing as different friends come to their senses and choose to opt out of it; best never to let yourself slip into such a lifestyle.

Aswell as this there are the health consequences from drinking, and lower self esteem.

Denerick

Grand yeah, I can understand some of what you're saying and where you're coming from but people who are unemployed are not responsible for the shambles this country is in, the global banks and the inept global regulation are - so take it out on them.

Fixed it for you. We the people were the ones buying the second homes and over-priced cars. Personal responsibility has to begin somewhere. And of course, lack of regulation in global institutions caused the meltdown in the first place, so passing the buck on to wee Bertie and Brian is slightly dishonest.

I think it relates back to what the OP is saying. People are content to make excuses for people who throw their lives and their livers down in a dead end lifestyle, but refuse to admit their (As in we, I) collective responsibility for living beyond their own means. Take for example the fact that they spend 150 euro on two nights out in some crap little small town in the middle of Carlow. As Patrick Kavanagh said, 'The poor are easily parted from their money'

Nehaxak

Thing is though, unless you've a wealth of experience in a particular sector, or a good education - there's not a lot of options open to you these days in other countries either.

Before the global recession you could nearly just piss off to another country and walk into employment of one sort or another. It's just not like that these days.

There should be incentives for unemployed people to educate themselves, full-time education, not distance learning or fas crap, which are both useless and only there as options to hide real unemplyment figures.

While it would be understood you're still available for fulltime employment at all stages and would continue to look for work, it would be taken into obvious account that the country is in the shíts, that there is very little work available even for decently educated or experienced people and that the path of education you choose to undertake would lead toward you as a person contributing more to the Irish economy in the future.

Incentives and training should also be made available for people to build business themselves. There's 6 lads from a small town complaining that there's no cinema, give them business training and incentives to start their own cinema in the town, fund it and recoup that funding if the business is successful after so many years. If it isn't and if the business failed, at least they tried, at least they got help and at least they made a go of it - would probably cost less than keeping 6 of them on the dole, not to mention the benefits to themselves of not just sitting around doing feck all for months on end. Maybe it might kick off and they end up employing more people from the town in a year or two ?

Easiest option is just to ignore the problem, let them languish on the dole while making no options available to them, or sending them off to a stupid useless fas course just so government can massage the unemployment figures.

reunion

Nehaxak wrote: »

This government and severe lack of ability and productivity in our public services (where the largest proportion of your taxes are going!) are to blame for the countries failing, not even to mention the joke that is NAMA and the amount of money your taxes are being spent on to support the very people who have brought this country to it's knee's.

Well if you are going to blame the government, then you are blaming yourself and everyone who voted for the government.

Also NAMA had EU funding...

Nehaxak wrote: »

I'm not married and am cohabiting with 2 children yet I'm the same in that we cannot get the tax benefits of being married unless we do actually get married. I blame the ineptitude in government departments and Irish law for that failing, not unemployed people.

Not being married and cohabiting... well i have a female roommate so should i be entitled to pay less taxes? answer is no... (so i actually don't blame the government there or irish law or the unemployed)

Nehaxak wrote: »

If you ever lose you job, and I hope you don't, it would be nice to think you could have some backup available to you for all the taxes you've paid out over the years (JSB) if you do have to claim social welfare..

Even more reason why you would want people who are on the dole now to either get a reduced dole or emigrate and not stay in the country using up all this 'backup'

Nehaxak wrote: »

Grand yeah, I can understand some of what you're saying and where you're coming from but people who are unemployed are not responsible for the shambles this country is in, the banks and the inept government are - so take it out on them.

i believe sean fitzpatrick is unemployed so don't generalise that everyone who is unemployed is not to blame. Everyone had there part, people who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford so they could live lives they couldn't, property developments that kept on going without demand, the international banking crisis and so on...

Just like how some people picked the unemployed to blame, you have picked the government and the banks.

Nehaxak

Denerick wrote: »

Fixed it for you. We the people were the ones buying the second homes and over-priced cars.

You might have, I didn't, I'm not taking responsibility for other peoples stupidity and/or greed.

Personal responsibility has to begin somewhere. And of course, lack of regulation in global institutions caused the meltdown in the first place, so passing the buck on to wee Bertie and Brian is slightly dishonest.

Lack of properly enforced regulation and a totally inept if not criminal financial regulator in Ireland, supported by government in Ireland, were responsible for Irelands downfall - not the global regulation. Typical thing for Ireland to do, blame someone else for it's own failings.

As Patrick Kavanagh said, 'The poor are easily parted from their money'

He also said "Let grief be a fallen leaf, at the dawning of the day." but I still think Luke Kelly sung the best version.

Denerick

Lack of properly enforced regulation and a totally inept if not criminal financial regulator in Ireland, supported by government in Ireland, were responsible for Irelands downfall - not the global regulation. Typical thing for Ireland to do, blame someone else for it's own failings.

Whatever. Read a newspaper some day.

Nehaxak

reunion wrote: »

Well if you are going to blame the government, then you are blaming yourself and everyone who voted for the government.

I didn't vote for them.

Also NAMA had EU funding...

...and ? It may as well have had US, Canadian and Timbuktoo funding also but I couldn't care less as the vast majority and bulk of the funding to help prop up and support the very same criminal people who brought this country to it's knee's - is coming from the Irish taxpayer.

Not being married and cohabiting... well i have a female roommate so should i be entitled to pay less taxes? answer is no... (so i actually don't blame the government there or irish law or the unemployed)

Yes but are you riding your roommate ? If you are and you are a couple then why should you not get the same benefits as a married couple ?
Why should married couples get more benefits, significant tax benefits, over couples who get none but who have been living with each other and are classed more or less as a married couple by the social welfare but not the revenue ?

Even more reason why you would want people who are on the dole now to either get a reduced dole or emigrate and not stay in the country using up all this 'backup'

Yes, lets all revert back to the standard FF response when people dare to question or ask for incentives and support, which is "piss off out of the country like our ancestors had to when the English stole our potatoes" or something along those lines...

i believe sean fitzpatrick is unemployed so don't generalise that everyone who is unemployed is not to blame.

Yes, I do apologise to poor old Sean and his large pension :rolleyes:

Everyone had there part, people who took out mortgages that they couldn't afford so they could live lives they couldn't, property developments that kept on going without demand, the international banking crisis and so on...

...and all supported, allowed to continue unabated, unregulated and unashamedly profited from by both our government and the very people we're now bailing out with NAMA.

Just like how some people picked the unemployed to blame, you have picked the government and the banks.

Are you serious ? I "picked" the government and the banks as you say because they are to blame !

Make a poll if you don't believe me, I'd be surprised if the government and banks got anything less than 49% each of the blame.

God almighty some people have some nerve to even try and and suggest the government, it's dreadful service, lack of regulation and policing of same along with the banks were not to blame.

Maybe it was Englands fault, again...

reunion

Nehaxak wrote: »

I didn't vote for them..

ok maybe you didn't but my point stands, you blame the government your blaming everyone who voted to elect them...

Nehaxak wrote: »

...and ? It may as well have had US, Canadian and Timbuktoo funding also but I couldn't care less as the vast majority and bulk of the funding to help prop up and support the very same criminal people who brought this country to it's knee's - is coming from the Irish taxpayer

Would you rather the country fell straight on the floor or stopped on its knee's?? some funding ANY funding that's not by the tax payer is a benefit, paying 99% is better then paying 100%.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Yes but are you riding your roommate ?

No but if she is hotter then can i get tax breaks?

Nehaxak wrote: »

If you are and you are a couple then why should you not get the same benefits as a married couple ?
Why should married couples get more benefits, significant tax benefits, over couples who get none but who have been living with each other and are classed more or less as a married couple by the social welfare but not the revenue ?

Because married people declare that they are together and the state recognizes this union with a marriage licence. Imagine doing your taxes and having to declare every relationship you were in... that's just stupid. If you feel that couples that act nearly the same way as a married couple should get the same tax breaks as a married couple, then get married.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Yes, lets all revert back to the standard FF response when people dare to question or ask for incentives and support, which is "piss off out of the country like our ancestors had to when the English stole our potatoes" or something along those lines...

I'm sure that isn't the standard FF response too, it's more along the lines of "piss off out of the country like our ancestors had to when the English stole our potatoes unless you vote for us". When the country can't afford to give you those incentives and support you want and somewhere else can, you must emigrate.

Nehaxak wrote: »

...and all supported, allowed to continue unabated, unregulated and unashamedly profited from by both our government and the very people we're now bailing out with NAMA.

and the people who voted in the government all supported the governments actions. Also people also took out these loans causing the banks to fail, so you could blame it on them for taking out the mortgage or on the bank for approving the mortgage or the banking regulator for not spotting this or for the government for appointing the banking regulator or for the people voting in the government.... wow see how there is more then the government and people who run the banks on that list there?

Nehaxak wrote: »

Are you serious ? I "picked" the government and the banks as you say because they are to blame !

Make a poll if you don't believe me, I'd be surprised if the government and banks got anything less than 49% each of the blame.

I agree they are to blame, but i am saying there is more then the government and the banks to blame here...

I don't blame the government 100% here, some people blame the people on the dole... but that is a matter of opinion who you blame! the reality is we are all to blame, it's not like this happened over night, it's not like people didn't notice house prices rising and what not...

And if i started a poll it would be peoples opinion not fact... and if you honestly think that the international banking crisis wouldn't even get 2% of the blame? or the property bubble?

Nehaxak wrote: »

God almighty some people have some nerve to even try and and suggest the government, it's dreadful service, lack of regulation and policing of same along with the banks were not to blame..

I believe you will find the government has many regulations and policies...

Again... i never said the government were not to blame, i merely said that people are picking who they blame. Like how you are choosing to blame the government and the banks, they did contribute to the current recession but they aren't the only 2 reasons we are in a recession.

Nehaxak wrote: »

Maybe it was Englands fault, again...

Well everyone travelling to the north to do there shopping... but that would be more of the consumers fault more then englands... maybe we could blame their currency and the low exchange rate....

digme

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1063952

This program is about a bunch of guys who've been on the dole for ages and just spend all their time drinking.
I've no idea how this is funny at all.

These guys should be looking for work abroad and thinking about emigrating. Nice to know where a massive chunk of our paychecks are going.

I couldn't tell you the last time I've had money spare to go on the piss. And I work for a living.
The government should double the price of drink in Ireland, like in Russia:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010100607.html

I never thought I'd be one of those people but I'm actually thinking about making a complaint to RTE about this program.

No you don't work for a living, you pay debt for a living,
if you can't afford to go on the piss, and your "working", you need to change something fast.

Nehaxak

reunion wrote: »

ok maybe you didn't but my point stands, you blame the government your blaming everyone who voted to elect them..

Damn right I am, I was absolutely stunned when FF were re-elected but there ye go.

Would you rather the country fell straight on the floor or stopped on its knee's?? some funding ANY funding that's not by the tax payer is a benefit, paying 99% is better then paying 100%.

There's other options, there's always other options, I'm not an economist but I'm sure I can think up some decent alternatives from myself if absolutely required.
I'd be more happy with NAMA if along with it's introduction, the corrupt bankers, corrupt developers and corrupt government ministers responsible and involved were also all put in prison for a very long time.
Yes I want blood but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

No but if she is hotter then can i get tax breaks?

If it were up to me, absolutely yes, with the understanding that I get to watch first hand to assess the validity of your situation as would be required by the legislation I would enact, subsection 3.c paragraph 9

CENSORED and CENSORED will always CENSORED in the presence CENSORED and CENSORED CENSORED CENSORED omg nice CENSORED CENSORED wtf is that even possible CENSORED CENSORED omg lol CENSORED

Because married people declare that they are together and the state recognizes this union with a marriage licence. Imagine doing your taxes and having to declare every relationship you were in... that's just stupid. If you feel that couples that act nearly the same way as a married couple should get the same tax breaks as a married couple, then get married.

I know what you're saying but you missed the point, the social welfare class couples more or less as married but the revenue does not. Hence a couple who are cohabiting (not in the sense of roommates, I mean as a proper couple, gay or straight doesn't matter) cannot avail of the tax breaks given to married couples, yet the same couple are classed the same as a married couple by the social welfare.
Myself I think the social welfare are correct and the revenue are wrong.
Actually, if I'm right, if you went to claim social welfare tomorrow, your means could be assesed taking into account whatever your roommate might be earning, even if you're not a couple.

When the country can't afford to give you those incentives and support you want, and somewhere else can, you must emigrate.

Well I think that opinion is wrong, we can't just expect to send our problems off on a ship to another country again just because our government and related services are unable or unwilling to deal with the problem themselves.

I agree they are to blame, but i am saying there is more then the government and the banks to blame here...

I would agree but the largest proportion of the blame lies with the government and the bwankers.
People in general are stupid and greedy, it's human nature to be so. If an incentive exists for people to buy houses (or otherwise) outside their means, no matter how stupid financially it might be behind it all, people will avail of that incentive. The regulator and the government should have been there to stop that crap steamrolling away with itself in the first place, but they weren't and now we have to pay for others' stupidity, greed and in some cases, downright criminal behaviour.

I don't blame the government 100% here, some people blame the people on the dole... but that is a matter of opinion who you blame! the reality is we are all to blame, it's not like this happened over night, it's not like people didn't notice house prices rising and what not...

99% to blame then, I'll pull back a little.

And if i started a poll it would be peoples opinion not fact... and if you honestly think that the international banking crisis wouldn't even get 2% of the blame? or the property bubble?

...but who is responsible for the property bubble ? Sure, people bought into it, but only because a pot of gold was put in front of them with little or no known strings attached.
Mortgages aren't even the biggest problem, it's the unknown and unregulated loans that were banded about between bankers and developers willy nilly that NAMA now has to pick up the pieces from, at the country's expense.
That's just criminally wrong.

...and the banking crisis in Ireland ? Now that even those of us with no financial background have seen the programmes and read the factual stories/accounts of what was going on and how badly the banks were in debt and in chains to the international markets, it's not our fault or the international banking sectors fault that the Irish banks bought into it all, even knowing themselves as they are well versed and educated in it all, that eventually sooner or later the whole lot will come crashing down ? Where was the regulator in all of this ?

I believe you will find the government has many regulations and policies...

Not enough and those that are there were poorly if ever enforced or acted upon to rectify. Can have all the regulations and laws you want but if they're not going to be acted upon and policed then they're worthless. Sure even McCreevy himself has publicly stood up and spoken out against regulation, at a time when he knew damn well what was going on, sure didn't he only get a loan himself outside of that regulation himself.

Again... i never said the government were not to blame, i merely said that people are picking who they blame. Like how you are choosing to blame the government and the banks, they did contribute to the current recession but they aren't the only 2 reasons we are in a recession.

Yeah well I still blame Steve mostly but really, I know the government and the bankers are not entirely to blame, but they proportion the greatest amount of blame and at the very least, our government, the people who we (although not I) voted in to manage us as we're too stupid to manage ourselves, failed us when we needed them the most to step in an take action before it was too late. Now it is too late and we're still paying the price of it all by the likes of NAMA, for years if not generations to come.

Well everyone travelling to the north to do there shopping... but that would be more of the consumers fault more then englands... maybe we could blame their currency and the low exchange rate....

Given we're all part of Europe, I see absolutely no problem at all in purchasing goods or services from Europe if they're cheaper than what's available locally. If goods in Dublin were cheaper than Cork, you can bet people from Cork would shop up here rather than locally there. Or maybe Dublin/Cork is a bad example to choose on that one...
I think you'll understand what I mean though.

I personally think all countries who are members of the EU should ditch their local currency and switch to the Euro, as a means of continued membership, otherwise they're rejected from the EU. I could see that happening eventually but the UK would be the hardest to get committment from.

Torakx

its interesting to note(at least for me) that every person that holds an irish birth cert is worth about 1 mil euro or something like that to the irish government.
i was trying to search some sites to try show people exactly where but so far cannot find it. i heard fidelity.com but no luck getting the right search results im guessing i need a european version?

would love if someone here can show me how exactly to find this out as i would like to claim the money for the rest of my birth cert use right now lol

imme

I'm not sure why this thread hasn't been moved to somewhere else. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with Budget/Irish economy:rolleyes:, imo.
There is already a thread on this TV programme in the television section of Arts.

Dannyboy83

imme wrote: »

I'm not sure why this thread hasn't been moved to somewhere else. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with Budget/Irish economy:rolleyes:, imo.
There is already a thread on this TV programme in the television section of Arts.

Because that thread is about the TV Program, this thread is not about the TV Program, but rather about the underlying policy/economic idiocy allowing this to happen at the expense of anyone paying tax.

Dannyboy83

I was thinking it would make sense to give people a combination of vouchers and cash rather than just cash, e.g. a €25 voucher for electricity, a €25 voucher for Insurance, although I suppose these would end up just being sold on the black market for drinking money anyway.

Isn't there a more sensible way to do this?

imme

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Because that thread is about the TV Program, this thread is not about the TV Program, but rather about the underlying policy/economic idiocy allowing this to happen at the expense of anyone paying tax.

allowing this to happen, the making of a tv programme???
your beef seems to be with the programme, is it with the TV programme or with the unemployed?

bangersandmash

reunion wrote: »

Not being married and cohabiting... well i have a female roommate so should i be entitled to pay less taxes? answer is no... (so i actually don't blame the government there or irish law or the unemployed)

Flawed analogy. It's pretty obvious that it is not the same thing. As Social Welfare will tell you, there are certain criteria used to assess whether a couple are cohabiting. Seemingly it's good enough for SW purposes, but not good enough for tax purposes. For instance, referring to the previous poster's case:

Where a couple have a child or children of their union, there is a strong presumption that they are living together as husband and wife.

Dannyboy83

imme wrote: »

allowing this to happen, the making of a tv programme???
your beef seems to be with the programme, is it with the TV programme or with the unemployed?

I'm not sure if you misunderstood, or are deliberately misunderstanding.
Read past the first post in the thread.

Dannyboy83

bangersandmash wrote: »

Flawed analogy. It's pretty obvious that it is not the same thing. As Social Welfare will tell you, there are certain criteria used to assess whether a couple are cohabiting. Seemingly it's good enough for SW purposes, but not good enough for tax purposes. For instance, referring to the previous poster's case:

This is a point I agree with.
I had a post about it here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055795169

I'm sure its no accident tho, I would say its quite deliberate.

imme

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

This program is about a bunch of guys who've been on the dole for ages and just spend all their time drinking. (1)

(2) The government should double the price of drink in Ireland, like in Russia:
I never thought I'd be one of those people but I'm actually thinking about making a complaint to RTE about this program (3) .

(1) I've looked at the programme, did I look at the same programme as you Dannyboy? Nowhere in the programme do they say all the participants are on the dole, let alone for "ages", as you say.

(2) maybe society should look at the role alcohol plays in Ireland. That's what I got from the programme Dannyboy. I enjoy alcohol, moderatly. Some weeks I might not go out at all, some weeks 2 or 3 times a week. The kind of drinking those guy were doing can't be good for you long term, let alone the cost of it.

(3) why don't you complain to rte, instead of posting on here, does rte read Boards.