7 week old puppy fitting

--amadeus--

Hi,

We collected a puppy a couple of weeks ago. We thought at the time that she was 8 weeks old but only found out when she was home that she was actually only 5 weeks (our other dog is a hefty adult lab/collie cross, I had no idea how big or small Springer Spaniel pups are!)

Anyway on Sunday she had a series of fits - frothing / foaming at the mouth, spasms lasting a few minutes at a time followed by uncontrolled running and yelping. After the last it took almost half an hour to calm her. While they were the first serious fits looking back she had a tendency to shiver a lot which I put down to new home anxiety but we now think some of them could have been mini fits.

Anyway we took her to the vet who said it could be one of two things - systemic shunt or worm larvae in her brain.

We have had teh all clear on the systemic shunt, thankfully, so the vet is pretty sure it was worm caused. She was riddled with worms when we got her - we de-wormed her last week and (we think) she is clean now.

The vet had her on valium to control teh fits until we found out what it was adn we will be reducing teh dosage and taking her off them over the next couple of days. She has been on great form since Sunday and looks back to normal. Hopefully all will stay normal when shes off teh meds...

So I suppose a few questions - I had never heard of brain damage or fitting being caused by worms; is this common? Does anyone have any experience of this? Is this likely to have any long term effects? Any advice?

Thanks!

roxiesmammy

sorry have no experience of this all i can say my thoughts are with u and ur little puppy, hopefully the pup will now be ok. Have you got back to the breeders, not that they would ppob give a s**t but if it was me i would be reporting them and i would make sure they know what i was doing, also i would tell them im reporting them to tax man as im sure there not declaring this, at least that might frighten them.

Doc Farrell

i never thought of reporting puppy farms to the Revenue, thats a great idea! they in turn will report them to the social welfare if necessary.

mymo

Did the vet tell you the life cycle of the worms?
Normally you worm the pup every 2 weeks until 12 weeks, then monthly until 6 months, then every 3 months.
Sorry have no experience of fitting due to worms, just have dogs and cats I worm regular because of kids playing with them.
I would imagine if it was caused by worms and worms are gone the pup should be fine.
Also if you have another dog I would worm it at the same time as the pup and each time you worm the pup, just to be sure they don't contaminate each other.

--amadeus--

Thanks for the replies!

It wasn't a breeder as such that we bought from, it was a farmer with a springer he lets one of his sons breed every now and again for pocket money. We did let him know in case it was something that might affect teh entire litter and he seemed really concerned. He even offered to drive across teh country to deliver our pups sister as a replacement if the worst happened.

We have wormed the other dog as well so hopefully thats sorted. From reading up it seems that the roundworm larvae migrate through the body and can end up in the brain. If teh fits were caused by a live worm now killed by the treatment then hopefully all is well. My worry is if a migrating worm has actually damaged the brain while passing through. I was hoping I'd get a few "ahh my pup had that and now hes 16 and has never been sick since" stories!

star-pants

Amadeus I'm so sorry to hear about your pup.
Sounds like negligence on the breeders side of things. The pup should not have been let go before 8weeks minimum & at that point should have been wormed.
Worming is very important, as well as vaccinations.

I'd not heard of worms causing fits but it appears in severe cases they can, could be the type of worm or whatever (honestly don't know the info myself).
Upon googling, worms in sucking pups can cause enteritis and the pup may fit, they can die from that or stoppage/perforation of the bowels.
Gosh the things you learn!

So it's good you got her to the vets when you did and got her treated/looked after.
Hopefully if it was the worms (which it sounds like) then if they're cleared and the fits go away she'll be ok.

edit - just seen you last post. At least the farmer was willing to accept responsibility. But by the sounds of it 'letting his son breed from his b*tch every so often for pocket money' is very bad form. That's negligence giving away pups that young. The pup should have been wormed, and if you didn't worm her when you got her, she probably picked them up before or after you got her and that's when the damage happened.

Magenta

OP did you not check that the puppy had been wormed and cared for properly before getting her?

Ado86

Magenta wrote: »

OP did you not check that the puppy had been wormed and cared for properly before getting her?

How is this possible ?! Dont be naive, no matter what the breeder shows you he's given the pup or told you he gave, you can't take their word for it!

Magenta

Ado86 wrote: »

How is this possible ?! Dont be naive, no matter what the breeder shows you he's given the pup or told you he gave, you can't take their word for it!

Don't call me naive.

Whispered

Magenta wrote: »

OP did you not check that the puppy had been wormed and cared for properly before getting her?

I have had many fosters and strays here who looked healthy until checked by a vet. You often can't tell by looking at a pup. One pup nearly died due to previous neglect and not even the vet saw that coming. I think it's very unfair and unnecessary to try point blame at the OP.

Magenta

helena.ryan wrote: »

I think it's very unfair and unnecessary to try point blame at the OP.

I asked a simple question, which was a reasonable question to ask since the place that the OP got the puppy sounds so dodgy.

Whispered

Ah well maybe it just came across as an accusation then. My apologies for misreading the tone of your post. I think it was your use of "did you not..." that made it sound like you were pointing some sort of blame on the OP.

With regards to the "question" the OP could very well have asked if the pup was wormed and well looked after. And of course the seller will say "oh yes blah blah". If the pup looked healthy the OP would have had no reason not to believe him.

Magenta

helena.ryan wrote: »

Ah well maybe it just came across as an accusation then. My apologies for misreading the tone of your post. I think it was your use of "did you not..." that made it sound like you were pointing some sort of blame on the OP.

With regards to the "question" the OP could very well have asked if the pup was wormed and well looked after. And of course the seller will say "oh yes blah blah". If the pup looked healthy the OP would have had no reason not to believe him.

I didn't mean it to sound like an accusation, I was just curious.
I hope the poor wee pup gets better soon, it is so upsetting when they are sick.

--amadeus--

Thanks for the advice - it was my wife who spoke to the breeder on the phone, I heard her ask about vaccinations and worming. I know he said she hadn't been vaccinated yet and I think he told her something along the lines of Helenas post - that no matter who you buy a pup off and even if they said she was wormed you're best off assuming not and doing it yourself. So we did worm her when we got her home - not instantly but certainly began within a few days of getting her back. And we had the choice of two pups so we went for the bigger, brighter and more active one. Extensive googling now tells me that worms can cause a "pot bellied" appearance so going for teh bigger pup may not have been right but I suppose you always take something of a gamble with *any* animal.

I think we were three days into the worming when she had the fit and it was certainly after she had passed the bulk of teh worms.

Anyhow update on her - the valium seemed to be doing nothing and since I'm home sick today (hopefully unrelated :eek:) we've taken her off it and I'l be keeping a close eye on her. Based on last nights "how high can I climb and what happens if I chew a laptop" performances she's back in rude health though!

andreac

Glad to hear shes in good form.

With regarding taking her off the valium, i wouldnt do this unless the vet says so. I know you think it might not be doing her any good, but if the vet has says to leave her on it then i wouldnt not take her off it as it could do more harm than good. Maybe give the vet a ring and explain what you are feeling and see what he says.

Just wondering, did you get her vaccinated since you got her?

--amadeus--

andreac wrote: »

Glad to hear shes in good form.

With regarding taking her off the valium, i wouldnt do this unless the vet says so. I know you think it might not be doing her any good, but if the vet has says to leave her on it then i wouldnt not take her off it as it could do more harm than good. Maybe give the vet a ring and explain what you are feeling and see what he says.

Just wondering, did you get her vaccinated since you got her?

The vet said to take her off - he had suggested going to a single tablet a day rather than the two shes on so I was planning on seeing how she's going and giving it tonight if it looks like its needed.

On teh vaccinations he said to hold off until a week after her last fit, he wont do her until she has a clean bill of health.

andreac

Ah right, thats grand, just best to take the advice from the vet. Hopefully with the treatment she should be back to form soon.

Oh i know what you mean about the vaccinations. Just be careful with her and dont bring her any further than your back garden until she does get them as she could be at risk of picking up diseases like Parvo etc which can be very serious, but im sure the vet mentioned this to you too.

--amadeus--

andreac wrote: »

Ah right, thats grand, just best to take the advice from the vet. Hopefully with the treatment she should be back to form soon.

Oh i know what you mean about the vaccinations. Just be careful with her and dont bring her any further than your back garden until she does get them as she could be at risk of picking up diseases like Parvo etc which can be very serious, but im sure the vet mentioned this to you too.

He didn't actualy - not that we'd be taking her too far at her age!

But do we need to keep her segregated and out of teh same garden as the older dog? He's fully vaccinated (boosters just before Xmas)

andreac

No, you should be fine if your other dog is vaccinated. Once your garden is enclosed and has no access to rats coming in as they pass on a disease called Lepto.
I wouldnt be bringing her outside at all, only to your back garden for toilet breaks. Its too risky to bring her any further and ive seen several pups getting sick from picking up diseases as they werent vaccinated and if they catch Lepto or Parvo at that young age it can be fatal so until shes vaccinated i would hold off on any walks.

Steve30x

--amadeus-- wrote: »

no matter who you buy a pup off and even if they said she was wormed you're best off assuming not and doing it yourself. So we did worm her when we got her home - not instantly but certainly began within a few days of getting her back.

When I bought my cavalier 10 weeks ago the breeder told me she was wormed and vacinated. She had a huge belly when I got her so just in case she was'nt wormed I gave her worm dose I got from the pet shop straight away when I got her home and thought she was going to be ok , but about a week after giving her the worm dose she was asleep in my arms belly up and I saw her belly moving with worms and her big belly was still there . So the next day I went to the Vets to get proper worm dose and gave it to her. Three days after I gave her the vets worm dose her belly was gone down a lot and there was no movement in her belly. She was worm free after the new worm dose thank god.

The Border collie I got is in much better health though. I asked the breeder about him worming the puppy and his shots. The breeder showed me the worm dose he uses and the shots he uses. Also the Border Collie was 10 weeks old when I got him almost a month ago.

I worm them both once a month now (I did worm the Cavalier every two weeks up to the age of 16 weeks and the Collie ie wormed every two weeks until he is four months)

Morale of the story is you cant believe what every breeder tells you.

--amadeus--

It's rare that you ever get a follow up so here is a follow up...

Pup is now around 11 weeks old and is distressingly healthy! Has an appetite that seems insatiable (not worms, she's been dewormed to within an inch of her life) - not only does she eat her own food but will snaffle anything left sitting and has already devoured a couple of apples from teh fruit bowl and half a yellow pepper from the bin... Full of life and mischief and is like a permanently overwound clockwork toy.

Everything we wanted, basically.

The fitting lasted just for that single day, she was off the valium the next day and was more or less back to normal a day after that. She has now had her first set of jabs and once she's had the boosters is off with MrsA to obedience classes.

So a happy ending

CreedonsDogDayc

thats great she's in better form. I always worry when I hear of unwell young pups.

Just a quick note though, apple seeds can be toxic to dogs and so can a lot of human foods that you wouldn't expect, so there's some info on it here http://dogs.about.com/od/dogandpuppyhealth/tp/toxicfood.htm !!


Any pics of the puppy??:o

Steve30x

My 5 month old Cavalier King Charles is like an over wound toy also. I dont know where she gets all the energy from.