Say 30K to spend on BMW - what should we get??

skyhighflyer

Chilliflake wrote: »

Leather is a must alright..we want luxury this time after being kicked around the road in the Astra!

Now I know I'm going to sound like a dunce, but what exactly are the main differences between a 3 series and a 5 series? Specifically the 320 and 520.

The 3 series and 5 series are both 5 door cars, but the 3 series is in the Mondeo size bracket whereas the 5 series is a bigger executive saloon.

The 2.0 diesel engine is the same for both. If you go for a model from before 2008 you will pay €600 odd tax under the old engine size system but only €156 for the 2008 and onwards model year.

There are more 3 series on the road. A new 3 series came out in 2005, whereas the 5 series you're lookin at came out in 2003 and is due for replacement soon.

The 3 series will be slightly faster and possibly have better fuel economy than the 5 series but that's it. Can't see one costing more or less to insure than the other. If it was my money, I'd pick the 5 series. I reckon it's a better looking car, bigger on the inside and there's not as many of them about.

Also, I wouldn't listen to suggestions about the 645 or 7 series. They're lovely cars, but at €1566 tax vs €156 for a newer 08 5 or 3 series, as wellas the increased insurance, fuel and repair costs I don't think they're a practical option.

Voodoomelon

Just so you know, the 3 series is a tiny car. Very, very little room in the back, i'm 5' 11" and I looked like an idiot trying to get into the back seat, there is zero room back there.

The front isn't great either. The 5 series would be a better choice if you want more room and decent comfort.

Shane732

Below is an article comparing 3 and 5 series taken off the net.... I agree with some of the points....

It seems almost impossible to do a rational comparison when you're deciding on which car to get for your next ride based on the topic above. I mean, how can you possibly compare a sporty BMW 3-series to a luxury (yet sporty too) 5-series, right?

But then again, there is actually only a tiny gap between the 3 and the 5.

Simply put, the 3-series is geared towards providing the owner a more sporty driving experience while the 5-series is more focused towards comfort and luxury. But yet when it comes to decision time, one can never decide almost instantly which model to get although the differences are quite obvious.

So what does the 3-series have that the 5 doesn't?

Well, for starters it's the sportiness that the 3 exudes that no other BMW models can match. It has always been that way since day one. The 3-series has always been labeled as a performance and adrenalin pumping machine. Doesn't matter if the car came with a 1.6-liter engine or loaded with the awesome 3.2-liter inline 6, it still managed to capture the hearts of both the young and old.

No other sedan could ever come close to the sportiness displayed by the BMW 3-series. It was the car which earned the title "The Ultimate Sports Sedan" by many automobile magazines. And it still carries that title proudly until today.

But what about the 5-series, and how does it fare against its younger sibling?

To say that the 5-series is "inferior" and not as popular as the 3-series would be a total lie because it is in a league of its own.

The 5 never really had the looks compared to its younger sibling but that all changed when BMW launched the E90 5-series. It's shark-like appearance and smooth muscular body lines simply "killed" the 3-series. Courtesy of Chris Bangle, the E90 caused a wave of mixed responses world-wide with its controversial yet strikingly aggressive appearance.

But looks wasn't everything. The 5-series also had the power to go with it. As "bulky" as it may seem, but it surprised many by delivering power that was almost at par, if not even better than the 3-series.

While the 3-series was sporty and fast, the 5-series feels much more planted to the ground and gave a more solid ride. There really isn't a "which-is-a-better car" thingy here because each one of them has its own strengths and weaknesses. You can't even say that the 3-series would sell better and have a better resale value as it is the most popular model in the BMW stable because sales for the 5-series have even surpassed the 3-series in recent years in some countries.

However, if you really must ask me, I would have to say I'd choose the 3-series, but then only by a hair's breadth. Personally, I've developed a soft spot for the 3-series since its hey days, and the beauty of it has somehow remained deeply rooted in my heart until today.

However bear in mind that no matter which model you choose to get, you'll never go wrong with a BMW. It possesses beauty, power and charisma all over. And it's not really the BMW badge that gets you excited all the time, but it's the thrill and exhilaration that the car gives you every time you fire up the ignition and put pedal to the metal.

Now, that's what we call "The Ultimate Driving Machine"

Shane732

The 3 series is in the same range as the Lexus IS, Merc C Class, Audi A4/5 whereas the 5 series in the same range as the Merc E Class, Audi A6 etc... Both premium car ranges.

The residual value of a 3 series would be much greater than a 5 series. For example look at the price of a 2002 3 series versus 2002 5 series (both older version than current models). You'll see that the 3 series have held their value better and are now more expensive than the 5 despite the 5 series being more expensive when first purchased.

The 5 series is a bigger car with more leg room in both the front and the rear. However, unless you have a backseat of 3 children you're not going to be stuck for space.

I agree with you that leather is a must - Lemon Dakota with heated seats!!

I would personally associate the 5 series as being more of a family car. Whereas the 3 series would be a younger persons car. Naturally this is a bit of a generalization!

I agree that the 6 series and 7 series aren't really an option as the cost of running them is too high.

Personally I'd pick a 3 series every time. If I was to buy a 5 series it would have to be a 530 or bigger. There just isn't the same level of poke in the 520. Also, you'll notice that the 3 series handles slightly better through cornering than the 5.

Go for 18's on whichever you buy - oh and watch out for damn runflats, bloody €220 a tyre.

Cyrus

if he wants a quick car forget about any form of 320 or 520, they arent quick

Shane732

Cyrus wrote: »

if he wants a quick car forget about any form of 320 or 520, they arent quick

I agree - that's why I was talking about a 325 but if they want something that's going to hold it's value then it has to be a 320.

3 years down the line you won't get a cent more for the car being a 325 rather than a 320....

Cyrus

you may even get less, but that cant be the main consideration,

she said power is one of the requirements, a 320 doesnt meet that,

id suggest a 08 330 if he can get one, 270 bhp and 600 odd quid road tax, perfect!

Shane732

They are looking at keeping the car for a max of 3 yrs - you certainly have to take residual value into account.

Why would you buy a 330 over a 325? A 330 is more expensive and you get about 0.5 sec extra acceleration to 60 and maybe about 1 sec in a 1KM drag.... Not worth it - if you're going for pure speed and have some sense it's either a 325 or 335.

The price range is €30K - there's not a chance you'd pick up a 08 330 M Sport with decent spec for that money (unless it had about 100K on the clock and had been crashed multiple times!!)

Cyrus wrote: »

you may even get less, but that cant be the main consideration,

she said power is one of the requirements, a 320 doesnt meet that,

id suggest a 08 330 if he can get one, 270 bhp and 600 odd quid road tax, perfect!

Tea 1000

Cyrus wrote: »

if he wants a quick car forget about any form of 320 or 520, they arent quick

Do remember that he's coming from an Astra!! He'll find it quick just like some people find 130bhp Golfs quick.
OP, drive both a 320d and 520d. That'll help you decide whether to look for a 3 or 5 series. If ye find the performance good, then keep to those engines, makes most sense for trading. If you find them wanting, then you can look out for the next engine up, and you'll have already decided on which series you want.
Despite what everyone on boards says, there's not much noticable difference between a 320d and 520d in performance terms. I drove them back-to-back, so made a direct comparison. 3-series drives a bit better, 5-series feels a lot more luxurious.

Mycroft H

Skoda superb? Much better value then any beamer. You could get a diesel one for less with all extras for less then 30k. Very nice car

Tea 1000

:rolleyes: Here we go again...
Maybe the mods should just put up a Skoda forum alongside the Motors forum.

Cyrus

Shane732 wrote: »

They are looking at keeping the car for a max of 3 yrs - you certainly have to take residual value into account.

Why would you buy a 330 over a 325? A 330 is more expensive and you get about 0.5 sec extra acceleration to 60 and maybe about 1 sec in a 1KM drag.... Not worth it - if you're going for pure speed and have some sense it's either a 325 or 335.

The price range is €30K - there's not a chance you'd pick up a 08 330 M Sport with decent spec for that money (unless it had about 100K on the clock and had been crashed multiple times!!)

Id argue why would one choose the 325 over the 330? the 330 is faster all the way through the range, the new lightweight 270bhp version of the 3 litre engine is a peach, i owned a z4 coupe with that engine and nearly bought a 330 msport coupe with that engine. Even coming from an e46 m3 which is what i had before, they didnt feel underpowered.

Added to that with road tax on a 08 now less than 700 you would want a good reason not to buy one.

Finally, in a few months you will see 08 330s for near 30k, especially if you are a cash buyer, might not be what you want to hear as you bought a 320 new in 07 but that doesnt make it any less likely.

Shane732

Cyrus wrote: »

Id argue why would one choose the 325 over the 330? the 330 is faster all the way through the range, the new lightweight 270bhp version of the 3 litre engine is a peach, i owned a z4 coupe with that engine and nearly bought a 330 msport coupe with that engine. Even coming from an e46 m3 which is what i had before, they didnt feel underpowered.

Added to that with road tax on a 08 now less than 700 you would want a good reason not to buy one.

Finally, in a few months you will see 08 330s for near 30k, especially if you are a cash buyer, might not be what you want to hear as you bought a 320 new in 07 but that doesnt make it any less likely.

I didn't buy a 320 new in 2007? Where did I say that? I'm currently being offered €24 - 25K for my 2007 as a trade in. This is off topic anyway...

Both the 325, 330 and 335 are all straight six cyclinder engines so I don't get the point in relation to the engine difference? The road tax on a 330 is the same as the 325 isn't it?

I've just had a look on carzone and I'm struggling to find a 08 330 up there at all let alone a car with a nice spec. You might pick up a basic 07 330 M-Sport for something around 30K.

Certainly I agree that a 2008 model will have higher residual value than a 2007 model as a result of the efficient dynamics model. I've been saying that all along.

If it's real power she wants she should buy a 335 - they visually look better than a 325 or 330 and are quicker and more powerful than either the 325 or 330 but we're not being realistic telling her to be looking at that range.

Cyrus

Shane732 wrote: »

I didn't buy a 320 new in 2007? Where did I say that? I'm currently being offered €24 - 25K for my 2007 as a trade in. This is off topic anyway...

Both the 325, 330 and 335 are all straight six cyclinder engines so I don't get the point in relation to the engine difference? The road tax on a 330 is the same as the 325 isn't it?

I've just had a look on carzone and I'm struggling to find a 08 330 up there at all let alone a car with a nice spec. You might pick up a basic 07 330 M-Sport for something around 30K.

Certainly I agree that a 2008 model will have higher residual value than a 2007 model as a result of the efficient dynamics model. I've been saying that all along.

If it's real power she wants she should buy a 335 - they visually look better than a 325 or 330 and are quicker and more powerful than either the 325 or 330 but we're not being realistic telling her to be looking at that range.

the road tax on a 08 3 series will be dictated by emissions not cc, for the power it puts out the 330 is reasonable to tax, and there are differences between the engines, obviously you will know that the 335 is a sequential turbo, but up until MY08 the block was the older 3.0 litre unit compared to the 330. that has changed now.

just because you cant get a 330 on carzone doesnt mean they dont exist either

finally, exhausts aside what cosmetic differences are there between a 335i m sport and any other msport model.

And you would get a 335 for 30k but it will be a 07

pburns

I've been biting my tongue since yesterday because I seem to be going through a grumpy old man phase but the OP's title makes me laugh:
'30K to spend on BMW - what should we get?'

I dunno...words just fail me...

If you are so vague about what you want and not a car fan I really DO think you'd be better off with a well speced 170bhp Skoda Superb:o

I don't want to sound mean but is it a badge or a car you're after?

If it must be a BMW then I'd be thinking a nice 520d - should be plenty quick coming from an Astra. A 330/530 would just be wasted...

Shane732

Cyrus wrote: »

the road tax on a 08 3 series will be dictated by emissions not cc, for the power it puts out the 330 is reasonable to tax, and there are differences between the engines, obviously you will know that the 335 is a sequential turbo, but up until MY08 the block was the older 3.0 litre unit compared to the 330. that has changed now.

just because you cant get a 330 on carzone doesnt mean they dont exist either

finally, exhausts aside what cosmetic differences are there between a 335i m sport and any other msport model.

And you would get a 335 for 30k but it will be a 07

I'm not saying that they don't exist there just won't be a huge selection. From memory I think the OP asked a question regarding the quantity of choice they'll have to pick from.

I know the 2008 tax will be based on emissions - I was of the opinion that the 325 and 330 were in the same road tax bracket (emissions) I've checked and I was wrong 330 is 28% VRT bracket whereas 325 is 24%. I think we're both assuming petrol engines here because you said the 330 had circa 274 bhp....

Ok so what do you get extra in a 330 than a 325? I guess about 40-50 hp, converts to about maybe a little over 1s in a 1KM drag. A standard 325 M-Sport is about 8K cheaper than a standard 330 M-Sport. I'll keep the 8K thanks.

Arrrgggh they're looking for a highly spec'd car not an ES/SE model. Your pricing is way off. Buy from the UK and your pricing is a little more accurate.

I meant exhaust wise!! Visually they look much better!!!

Shane732

pburns wrote: »

I've been biting my tongue since yesterday because I seem to be going through a grumpy old man phase but the OP's title makes me laugh:
'30K to spend on BMW - what should we get?'

I dunno...words just fail me...

If you are so vague about what you want and not a car fan I really DO think you'd be better off with a well speced 170bhp Skoda Superb:o

I don't want to sound mean but is it a badge or a car you're after?

If it must be a BMW then I'd be thinking a nice 520d - should be plenty quick coming from an Astra. A 330/530 would just be wasted...

Skoda Superb?

Arrrrggghhhh just leave.......

Agreed about the 520 probably being quick enough coming from an Astra...

Cyrus

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm not saying that they don't exist there just won't be a huge selection. From memory I think the OP asked a question regarding the quantity of choice they'll have to pick from.

I know the 2008 tax will be based on emissions - I was of the opinion that the 325 and 330 were in the same road tax bracket (emissions) I've checked and I was wrong 330 is 28% VRT bracket whereas 325 is 24%. I think we're both assuming petrol engines here because you said the 330 had circa 274 bhp....

Ok so what do you get extra in a 330 than a 325? I guess about 40-50 hp, converts to about maybe a little over 1s in a 1KM drag. A standard 325 M-Sport is about 8K cheaper than a standard 330 M-Sport. I'll keep the 8K thanks.

Arrrgggh they're looking for a highly spec'd car not an ES/SE model. Your pricing is way off. Buy from the UK and your pricing is a little more accurate.

I meant exhaust wise!! Visually they look much better!!!

im talking about well specced sports or se's

i doubt you will find an es 330/335

i was in the market for one 6 months ago but bought the z4 coupe, ill be looking again at the end of the summer,

i had a deal agreed with a dealer on a 08 330i coupe m sport for 28.5k last year, that said it was a repo and in the end it fell through, but i have also seen plenty of 07 335s for 30k or so, and i am pretty certain i will be able to get one for 30k later on this year

Finally while there may be an 8k difference new one a 330 and 325 that is all but gone after a couple of years, the s/h are much the same

Idbatterim

Hi Op, the link below is intended for you. Read the reviews on the right hand side.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/models/320dED/0,,1212___,00.html

Shane732

Cyrus wrote: »

im talking about well specced sports or se's

i doubt you will find an es 330/335

i was in the market for one 6 months ago but bought the z4 coupe, ill be looking again at the end of the summer,

i had a deal agreed with a dealer on a 08 330i coupe m sport for 28.5k last year, that said it was a repo and in the end it fell through, but i have also seen plenty of 07 335s for 30k or so, and i am pretty certain i will be able to get one for 30k later on this year

Finally while there may be an 8k difference new one a 330 and 325 that is all but gone after a couple of years, the s/h are much the same

I guess we're just not going to agree on this! Did you buy a new model Z4? Stunning cars!

A repo car is a completely different thing to a standard car. A repo might owe the dealer very little. Repo's are almost like liquidation sale cars... There's a 07 XK in EP Mooney's sale that'll probably go for something like €25K at the weekend....

Here's a few SE 330's - I used compucars (uk)...

http://www.compucars.co.uk/used-cars/bmw/3-series/330/330d/for-sale/?1109014

http://www.compucars.co.uk/used-cars/bmw/3-series/330/330d/for-sale/?995278

I don't get your comment on the trade in values - Yes the 50% of the difference might be gone an 08 model now but when the OP goes to trade in the 330 she'll get the exact same for it as a 325 (i.e. €4K lost in residual sale value)

Ok you're obviously a 330/335 man and I'm a 325/335 man. That's fine but how realistic are any of the 325/330/335 for the OP? I don't think they are realistic options...

1) Not a whole lot of 325/330/335's on the ground
2) Wouldn't get the spec the OP wants for the price range
3) Residual value not as good as a 320/520
4) Cost of running 325/330/335 is higher than a 320/520

Idbatterim

Qucik as has been mentioned is relative, any of the bmw's mentioned are going to be seriously quick compared to the Astra! Another point is, what are you going to do with these higher powered cars? race from one set of lights to another or tail gate 24hrs per day?!!! You can get any heap of crap up to our highest speed limits! and yeah, while there is a great thrill to having some power on tap, the cons far outweight the pros IMHO!

Cyrus

Shane732 wrote: »

I guess we're just not going to agree on this! Did you buy a new model Z4? Stunning cars!

Ok you're obviously a 330/335 man and I'm a 325/335 man.

to be honest im really just a 335 mean or m3 man, waiting in the 92 to depreciate enough so that i can afford one, the e46 m3 was the best car i have ever owned,

no my z4 was the old model, but the coupe not the vert, i had to sell it tho, it was too impractical so i sold it after 4 months and bought a mark 2 audi TT to tide me over til the end of the summer :P

Cyrus

Idbatterim wrote: »

Qucik as has been mentioned is relative, any of the bmw's mentioned are going to be seriously quick compared to the Astra! Another point is, what are you going to do with these higher powered cars? race from one set of lights to another or tail gate 24hrs per day?!!! You can get any heap of crap up to our highest speed limits! and yeah, while there is a great thrill to having some power on tap, the cons far outweight the pros IMHO!

the cons being? you either get it or you dont, if you dont owning a high powered car isnt for you,

but if you do it is

daRobot

Idbatterim wrote: »

Qucik as has been mentioned is relative, any of the bmw's mentioned are going to be seriously quick compared to the Astra! Another point is, what are you going to do with these higher powered cars? race from one set of lights to another or tail gate 24hrs per day?!!! You can get any heap of crap up to our highest speed limits! and yeah, while there is a great thrill to having some power on tap, the cons far outweight the pros IMHO!

I think you've an extremely valid point there.

Don't get me wrong, I love fast cars, but if you want to be practical about the ownership prospect, there are very few day to day occasions where you can use the power you have.

OP>

Get yourself a nice used 535D. Power, space, economy. An amazing all rounder.

Idbatterim

I do get it! Iv driven an E46 m3 with the foot down! believe me I get it! but for how many on boards, is running cost now a factor?!

Cyrus

Idbatterim wrote: »

I do get it! Iv driven an E46 m3 with the foot down! believe me I get it! but for how many on boards, is running cost now a factor?!

i think its always a factor, it just depends on if you have the stomach for it or not,

plus people overestimate 'running costs' in my opinion, with the exception of my current car, my last 5 cars have been 2.5l and above and havent cost me the earth to maintain.

fast cars are now cheaper secondhand, that should offset the running costs a little

Shane732

Yes the 335 E92 is some car....

Personally I'm currently looking down the lines of an S5 to tidy me over until the F32 is out.