5 weeks old sliding cover phone comes apart, Carphone Warehouse claims water damage?

lostprophetsie

Basically my younger sister bought a phone 5 weeks ago, it was one of those phones where you slide the cover to get to the keypad. Recently the phone came apart where this sliding cover hinges. The only thing holding the screen and the keypad was a wire. Technically the phone itself was still working perfectly.

She brought the phone to Carphone Warehouse who would not send it for repair as this fault was due to "Water Damage"??? Eventually after numerous visits she got the phone sent for repair. The phone arrived back in the store today and my sister was told it could not be fixed because of water damage. The wire that had been holding it together had been cut and not replaced so the phone came back completely broken and no longer working at all, whereas when it was sent for repair the only problem was the broken hinge. Do we have any rights in this situation?

Thanks

Davy

Ask for the technicians report to show the water damage to the circuit board.

You can also send it for repair yourself to MPRC or to fonemenders. You will find their location on both their websites, which you will find in google easily.

theteal

what kind of reasoning did CPW give your sister for thinking the handset was liquid damaged during the initial return? most phones have indicators to quickly spot such issues

lostprophetsie

Yeah they said the indicator had been triggered alright but these indicators go off for the smallest of things and the fact is the phone was working perfectly but had faulty hinges or sliding mechanism.
Also the phone was returned from Car Phone warehouse in worse condition than it was sent in. Like if she wants to get is fixed now, along with getting the hinge fixed she will also have to pay to have it re-wired, a fault which Carphone Warehouse added.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Davy

Did they give you the report? Did it show a picture of the damage?

lostprophetsie

Davy wrote: »

Did they give you the report? Did it show a picture of the damage?

Hi Davy no, I have no record or report of the damage. Is getting this report the next step I should take?

Davy

lostprophetsie wrote: »

Hi Davy no, I have no record or report of the damage. Is getting this report the next step I should take?

Well i just wouldn't trust them otherwise.

You could bring it to MPRC or fonemenders yourself and explain to them. Both companies repair phones under warranty.

lostprophetsie

Davy wrote: »

Well i just wouldn't trust them otherwise.

You could bring it to MPRC or fonemenders yourself and explain to them. Both companies repair phones under warranty.

So you think there is nothing further I can do from the Carphone Warehouse end? I see MPRC don't repair any phones with physical damage which is the case with this phone (hinge and wire) not sure what fonemenders policy is so might be worth sending it to them as I don't live near any of their locations.

Thanks for your help.

Davy

No once will cover physical damage if you caused it, but if its because of a fault in the handset manufacturing that's a different story.

The wire is most likely a ribbon cable, which is most likely a quick fix.

tony1kenobi

Carphone Warehouse sent the phone to MPRC who didn't repair it as it's liquid/water/moisture damaged.

MPRC are an independent repair company.They don't get paid if they don't repair the phone.

If the phone is liquid damaged it just is.The guys in the shop told you so from the indicators,then the repair company advised the same independently.

I don't see that you have any further questions.

lostprophetsie

tony1kenobi wrote: »

Carphone Warehouse sent the phone to MPRC who didn't repair it as it's liquid/water/moisture damaged.

MPRC are an independent repair company.They don't get paid if they don't repair the phone.

If the phone is liquid damaged it just is.The guys in the shop told you so from the indicators,then the repair company advised the same independently.

I don't see that you have any further questions.

Thanks for that Tony1kenobi, I just feel that the liquid damage they mention isn't an issue here when some part of the sliding mechanism came apart which as far as I am concerned can't be caused by "answering the phone in the rain or with sweaty hands".

I also wouldn't have as much of a problem with this but for the fact the phone was sent in working order (could be used to make/receive calls, text etc) but was returned with the wire cut. Is it too much to expect them to return the phone in the same condition it was brought to them in?

I'm not sure what you have to gain in taking the shops side on this? I merely posted here for advice and have just tried to give all the details I have, but thanks for your input anyhow.

eth0_

lostprophetsie wrote: »

I'm not sure what you have to gain in taking the shops side on this? I merely posted here for advice and have just tried to give all the details I have, but thanks for your input anyhow.

He's not taking the shop's side at all. A phone does not simply 'come apart'. It sounds like it was dropped or roughly handled. As for the water damage indicator, sure, water may have nothing to do with the damage to your phone, but the indicator has been triggered which will have invalidated your warranty. It really ISN'T triggered by the smallest thing.

lostprophetsie

eth0_ wrote: »

He's not taking the shop's side at all. A phone does not simply 'come apart'. It sounds like it was dropped or roughly handled. As for the water damage indicator, sure, water may have nothing to do with the damage to your phone, but the indicator has been triggered which will have invalidated your warranty. It really ISN'T triggered by the smallest thing.

Saying a phone does not come apart is completely incorrect, you do not know this, it may have had a faulty hinge the phone was in perfect physical condition not dropped or roughly handled in the 5 weeks of use. You can choose to believe this or make further assumptions like a phone does not simply "come apart". I only posted for some advice and thankfully have gotten some good advice.

I take it from your statement that the indicator isn't triggered by the smallest of things that you are an expert on the subject a quick Google will point out you are incorrect. It was the Carphone Warehouse sales person who said it can be triggered from perspiration on your hand or condensation from having it in your pocket for your information. I don't pretend to be an expert on these things, hence my original post.

Anyhow I am going to take some of the advice from earlier in thread.Thanks all.

foggy_lad

lostprophetsie wrote: »

Yeah they said the indicator had been triggered alright but these indicators go off for the smallest of things and the fact is the phone was working perfectly but had faulty hinges or sliding mechanism.
Also the phone was returned from Car Phone warehouse in worse condition than it was sent in. Like if she wants to get is fixed now, along with getting the hinge fixed she will also have to pay to have it re-wired, a fault which Carphone Warehouse added.

Thanks for the replies so far.

some of these indicators are very different in the way they operate, some are white and turn red/pink when exposed to moisture/dampness others have a red/purple pattern of X's which spread out when exposed to moisture.

is it possible the staff in the phone shop mistook one type of indicator and misdiagnosed? they then sent the phone off (because of your persistance) most likely with "notes" attached for the phone menders indicating water damage so it is possible the phone menders looked at the notes and did not examine the phone but took the shops word on the water damage?

also the phone is your property and they have damaged it during their assessment of it so you are entitled to have all damage caused by them repaired!

lostprophetsie

foggy_lad wrote: »

some of these indicators are very different in the way they operate, some are white and turn red/pink when exposed to moisture/dampness others have a red/purple pattern of X's which spread out when exposed to moisture.

is it possible the staff in the phone shop mistook one type of indicator and misdiagnosed? they then sent the phone off (because of your persistance) most likely with "notes" attached for the phone menders indicating water damage so it is possible the phone menders looked at the notes and did not examine the phone but took the shops word on the water damage?

also the phone is your property and they have damaged it during their assessment of it so you are entitled to have all damage caused by them repaired!

Hi foggy_lad, thanks for your reply, I'm trying to get the engineers report from the shop at the moment, but what you say could indeed be possible unfortunately I don't know yet.

Thats what really gets to me, fair enough I can accept they have a water damage policy which invalidates the warranty and although its annoying that the water damage could have nothing to do with a faulty hinge, I'm finding it hard to accept they are allowed return the phone damaged after their assessment.

I can imagine if the repair guy has found damage from the phone being mis-handled as was mentioned by a previous poster this will also be included on the report, although I feel if they had found this it would have been a better excuse than water damage .

foggy_lad

it is very likely your phone was damaged when thrown into a bin/box with several others all for repair and as they are to be repaired any damage would not matter but then yours was seen from notes or indicator to have water damage and as this voids the manufacturer warrenty it was popped back in a jiffy bag for return to you unfixed but with extra damage caused by the menders!

MunsterCycling

Which they have now to pick up the bill for. OP they have damaged your sisters property and you are entitled to have it restored to the condition in which you gave it to them in, working.

smodgley

any update?

lostprophetsie

smodgley wrote: »

any update?

Sorry nothing to report yet but I will update when get an outcome.

maglite

Also check when you get the report that it has your IMIE number and that the reported damage has been proved. Check this yourself.

lostprophetsie

*Quick Update

So far I have only been given access to the image of the back of the phone with the water damage indicator highlighted. The shop have been no further help so I am in contact with Carphone Warehouse support now.

Phester

I had a similar problem with the warranty company a few years ago. I am an electronic engineer with access to xray equipment.

They claimed my phone was water damaged. I had taken pictures of the phone prior to sending it back and the stip of paper was white.

I asked to point to the water damage on the PCB. they showed me a tiny stain on the ground plane well away from any of the external parts of the phone. (this was all done remotely) they sent back the phone. The report that came back with the phone said PCB warped. So I sent it back to a different warranty company for a second opinion. they sent it back because the database says phone was faulty. I took an xray of the part BGA that was suspect to eb faulty and had proof that it was a manufacturing fauly. So I re-sent it back for the second opinion.

The second opinion was that the pcb had a 1mm warp. when I asked for the manufacturing tolerance on the PCB the technican became a Homer Simpson. I had to prove the original evidence of no water damage. I had kept the phone cover. It was true and had no impact damage. I had to prove that there was a failed BGA on the board causing the keypad to only partially work. and even then they said that they were only replacing my phone because I had been waiting so long for a proper resolution. They were under no obligation to fix.

:eek:

lostprophetsie

Phester wrote: »

I had a similar problem with the warranty company a few years ago. I am an electronic engineer with access to xray equipment.

They claimed my phone was water damaged. I had taken pictures of the phone prior to sending it back and the stip of paper was white.

I asked to point to the water damage on the PCB. they showed me a tiny stain on the ground plane well away from any of the external parts of the phone. (this was all done remotely) they sent back the phone. The report that came back with the phone said PCB warped. So I sent it back to a different warranty company for a second opinion. they sent it back because the database says phone was faulty. I took an xray of the part BGA that was suspect to eb faulty and had proof that it was a manufacturing fauly. So I re-sent it back for the second opinion.

The second opinion was that the pcb had a 1mm warp. when I asked for the manufacturing tolerance on the PCB the technican became a Homer Simpson. I had to prove the original evidence of no water damage. I had kept the phone cover. It was true and had no impact damage. I had to prove that there was a failed BGA on the board causing the keypad to only partially work. and even then they said that they were only replacing my phone because I had been waiting so long for a proper resolution. They were under no obligation to fix.

:eek:

Definately won't be getting my hopes up about a resolution so!

Henrsboy

Carphone Warehouse use M.P.R.C for all repairs. You can go on to mprcs website and type in your imei and it will give you the same details that cpw get back from them. You more than likely get a recipt when it went for repair and it tells ya you can find out on the website.

ch750536

Forget repairs.

They damaged your property whilst in their care. They have to repair this phone for you. If you took them molten plastic (but still worked) and said 'repair this please' which they returned in an non working state they have to repair the phone, probably a replacement in this case.

Don't get drawn into a 'water damage' discussion. Tell them you are not discussing that. Tell them you want the phone returned to the state that you gave it to them in, be polite but firm. It is their duty of care to ensure this.

If you have a phone log showing that the phone was used just before giving it to them this would help, though not conclusively.

jimmycrackcorm

I would simply take a small claims case against CPW on the basis that they were asked to repair the slider and in fact the phone was working correctly otherwise. their claim of water damage has no bearing on the slider function.

whiterebel

I have had some issues with a 5800 which led me to bring the phone to Fonemenders in Cork on the instruction of Carphonewarehouse.
They advised me that the 5800 was Beyond Economic Repair (BER), as it was water damaged (Not a hope!!!), after sending it on to MPRC Dublin. When I went to collect the phone, I saw an employee of Fonemenders with a stack of phones, in jiffy bags, plied high. One fell off the top of the pile and from about 5 feet, smacked off the concrete. She just picked it up and continued on her way. Not my phone, but I started to get an idea of their idea of service........
I got my phone back, despite asking for a full report, photos, why it took so long etc, which they wouldn't provide.
I went back to CPW in Midleton and had a quite reserved rant. I have had phones since about 1995 - a Motorola 088 which had no display and went through 6xAA batteries like Godzilla went through Chicken suppers. It is still perfect in its box. Never had to return a phone for damage I caused, have 4 ipods, laptops etc, etc etc never damaged etc. Despite the temptation to yawn, CPW said that Fonemenders had declared it BER, and there was nothing they could do. I refused to accept this, and after a couple of discussions, the manager phoned the Nokia rep. She offered to get the phone sent to their Nokia Engineer in Waterford who would have a look.
Guess what? NO WATER DAMAGE!!!!!!! He wants the photos and reports now from Fonemenders. The faces in CPW yesterday were a picture.....
I will be writing to CPW, Nokia and Fonemenders, and would suggest that anyone who doesn't believe the "water damage" stories to take it further, as it seems to be their "unprovable" get out clause.
The "Engineer" in Waterford returned it to CPW. I went in all confident, until the manageress had a sad face, and showed me the covering letter from the "Engineer" which said it WAS water damaged and to look up the photos from MPRC. How he knew it had been to MPRC is beyond me. I asked where the girl who took the call was gone, and was told she was part-time and had gone to another shop. The guy who witnessed what she had said to me "couldn't remember............." I was really getting frustrated by this time, so I was told Nokia would contact me. She did, and she was really nice while I explained the whole shambles. It has really become personal for me now, as I feel they are taking the p*ss and covering each others backs. Nokia rep asked if I would send it one more time to a completely independent repair company. Seeing as I have barely had it it since the first week in July, why not. No mention of previous inspections, nothing, a fresh start. I got the phone back yesterday having been tested by Sigma Telecom in Dublin, in black and white NO FAULT FOUND. The latest update may have sorted the original problem as they couldn't replicate it. Nokia should be organising a replacement for me as we speak. We really shouldn't have to put up with this level of crap after paying out big money for phones. CPW confirmed the phone call from the guy in Waterford DID happen, that he could find no sign of water damage on the phone, yet he filled out a report the following day, saying there was.
Just to finish off, despite Nokia telling me they would replace the phone if it came back NFF, they have reneged and have gone back to MPRCs story that it is liquid damaged, despite Sigma saying it isn't.
And there was me expecting them to admit they were lying......
So thats my last Nokia, have an iPhone and won't use a Nokia again. Costly lesson for Nokia as my missus buys their company mobiles, and she has been very interested to see how Nokia have treated me.

Sorry for the long post, but this is a long sad story of CPW/Fonemenders/MPRC which is relevant. I wrote to all three, and as you would expect, never heard a word back. I sent my 5800 to Envirofone.com, who thoroughly tested it and gave me €115.00 for it........

foggy_lad

why would you not go through the small claims court instead of dealing with engineers and repair companies that have nothing to do with you as your contract was with carphone warehouse?