head gasket FIAT PUNTO 1.2

FIAT 00

Hi there,

I have a Fiat Punto for the last 3months and I have put so much money into it...

Last week the head gasket brake down and also the water pump .

Any idea of the cost involved to fix it?

I have got a quote of 350eur in total is it bad or good?

Thanks

Stevie Dakota

That is a good price, just make sure they know what they are doing or else you will end up with the same problem reoccurring.

johndaman66

Probably not too bad on the face of it if the job is done right Fiat 00. On the other hand if the job is not done right you are probably p!ssing against the wind as it will give up again soon down the road. When doing a head gasket a lot of mechanics vary in their opinion on what needs to be done and what doesn't or indeed try to get the gig by quoting a lower price and then taking shortcuts. When I done it on a Vectra I got a complete head gasket set, head bolts, new water pump and got the head skimmed. Also as the car was soon due a timing belt I also replaced the timing belt kit on the mechanics recommendation (a major cost in doing a timing belt is labour and as it is taken of anyway to do headgasket). Timing belt would be up to yourself ultimately but if its soon due to be changed you would be better off doing it all in the one job. Then after that I got the radiator flushed as the oil and water were mixing as I'm sure would probably be the same in your case or at least to some degree. Then an oil and filter change is no harm or definately recommended.

Not a small job by any means and I think 350 would be on the low side for a thorough job as I pointed out but mechanics rates do seem to vary so much too. I would rather pay double for a properly done job than a half baked effort whereby I'm taking the car back in 4 or 5 months time to get job done again.

FIAT 00

Thanks for the reply...I have changed the timing belt a while ago now...I pay eur 600 for the car and then I spent another 600e to change almost everything...got new timing belt..new battery..new tyres and a full service done as well..But we all know that the brand is not really good anyway...

I have also another problem on the top...I had to change the back box on the car and also the exaust but it seems that something is bumping into it so my mechanic said there was nothing else to do about it because he tried to push it back and forward and bringing it up but nothing has changed...

Does anyone ever experience this problem before..??
I mean this is not dangerous or anything but it's just annoying me ...

Thanks

Alanstrainor

I'd really have to question whether it's worth it. The car is already a money pit, and putting another 350 into it, with no guarantees that it'll last any amount of time, i really think i'd just leave it tbh. That's just me though...

FIAT 00

I have to drive and need the car so at the moment was the only thing I could do...everything is brand new in the car because I have changed it recently and the mileage is also good compared to other cars to maybe I take this as the last time to fix this car..next time it will be a new one...but not sure about what brands now.. I have heard that Nissan and Opel are very good ..Is that true?

All cars have problems at some stage but my one seems to be not a lucky one from the start.

beachlife

I think your problem is more with the maintenance. You say you need a new waterpump now,why?
If you had the timing belt done then the way to do it properly is to change the water pump also(because it's on the belt) and at the time it is common to change the thermostat and coolant also(because it has to be drained to change the pump,To do the belt right).
The correct price for this head gasket job is about 550 euros.
That includes :skim,head set,head bolts.
plugs,oil,oil filter
timing belt,tensioner,waterpump,thermostat,coolant.
Usually when you start getting low quotes ,the garages are leaving out parts in order to reduce the costs,often times a garage that is leaving out parts is making more in labour that a garage that is doing it right.
EG> You COULD just get a head gasket(not full head set) for 25 euro
and water pump for 40 euro.
Don't change the oil(if not gone to mayonnaise )
Fill with water
and charge 350 a big profit indeed!!!!

FIAT 00

Well he is putting all used parts for my car and I know this..he gets them from the north cauze they are cheaper but I don't think he did change all this things anyway like thermostat and coolant...I will check with him...

Other garages will get you all new parts and you have to pay a fortune for them and on the top all their labour as well so that's way it will cost you more..

There is no point to buy all new parts for a used Fiat Punto because they will be still the same crap ...you know the mean?

He did change the oil by the way and he did put a fluid and not water inside ...

That's what he told me but I did not check inside to make sure it was right..How can you check it??

Another car will cost you probably the same money anyway because this things happens to any car.

Do you agree?

itarumaa

I think that in general cheap cars are way to go, but you also should know when to give up.

Nothing is worse than go for spiral of fixing the car again and again and again...

then all the time you think, well I spend 300e already so I better not to give up now.

But end of the day you have to think OP what you want to do with the car, but for instance I had a Matiz that needed new timing belt, brake caliper, two tyres, cv joint etc and I desiced it was not worth the hassle.

veron01

It is not the brand that is the problem but IMO it is how it was treated by the previous owner(s). Like another poster said, make sure you are not throwing more money away. €350 to me for a gasket sounds on the low side. Just my input

FIAT 00

I know you are right..Well my car is fundamental to bring me in to work everyday so I had no other choice at the moment than fix it..

You have to pay to destroy it anyway...do you know how much?

I think is around 200 quid isn't it?

Thanks

FIAT 00

Veron 01----The previous owner was a disaster..he tried to change the tyres himself and he broke a screw and one of the tyres was even diffent diameter from the other ones...can you imagine?


then he did something on the gears ...like a sport asset or something cauze they are really hard and the 2nd gear is almost impossible to put at low speed ahahah..

Then the car was full of blue stickers FIAT everywhere ...I think I just got the wrong car from the beggining hahah ...

johndaman66

FIAT 00 wrote: »

Well he is putting all used parts for my car and I know this..he gets them from the north cauze they are cheaper but I don't think he did change all this things anyway like thermostat and coolant...I will check with him...

Other garages will get you all new parts and you have to pay a fortune for them and on the top all their labour as well so that's way it will cost you more..

There is no point to buy all new parts for a used Fiat Punto because they will be still the same crap ...you know the mean?

He did change the oil by the way and he did put a fluid and not water inside ...

That's what he told me but I did not check inside to make sure it was right..How can you check it??

Another car will cost you probably the same money anyway because this things happens to any car.

Do you agree?

Certain parts in a car such as, among other parts body panels, windows, seats, stereo's, starter motors, altenators etc can be taken out of other cars and used again. Other parts such as as waterpumps, spark plugs, timing belt kits etc and definately a head gasket are a no no and you would simply put in a new part in such cases. It just wouldn't make any sense whatsoever putting in a used timing belt from another car for example.

In my opinion judging from what I've read from you you may be best advised to cut your losses and get rid of the car. It seems to be a money pit. I seriously don't think you would get a properly done headgasket job for 350 quid all in. You could be pretty certain you will be taking the car back to a garage again to get the same job rectified in the near future. I think you also mention that the car is hard to get into gear at times. This could possibly indicate that the clutch or related part is on the way out. Again you would be spending a few quid to get this rectified if such was the case. I appreciate that you have put considerable money into the car and this happening now is a bit of a kick in the teeth but best to cut your losses all the same I would suggest. You shouldn't necessairly have to be paying to scrap the car. Worst case scenario a breakers yard would take it of you for free and collect it but you probably could get something for it, a mechanic who can do the HG job himself in his spare time for example might pay you something for the car and seen as you have put lots of other new parts in it...just don't expect too much though!

You should have not too much trouble finding a replacement car for even under a grand with NCT on them. Models I would recommend that would be roughly the equivalent of the Punto are Fiesta's, Polo's, starlet/ Yaris, Suzuki swift, older model micra's. Just if you are going for a micra I wouldn't be too inclined to be bothered with the 2002 model onwards. I have heard bad stories about these ones. If you are picky and buy right even at a grand there is no reason why you shouldn't pick yourself up a little gem! If you are not too well up on cars best to take a mechanic or at least somebody somewhat knowledgeable along to give car a look over before you take the plunge.

macroman

It's not a hard job and for a Punto the price quoted is a bit steep. For that price I'd expect the water pump, thermostat, timing belt and head gasket and bolts replaced with new parts and the head skimmed and tested.

You're better off getting it done, you've come this far and put so much into the car it'd be a shame to waste it and start over. Very little goes wrong with Puntos - the Head Gasket problem is quite common but most garages see dozens of them a year and can knock them out in a day if they wanted. You can put the €350 into the car but don't expect to get it back when you come to sell it, so only put the money into it if you intend on keeping the car for the foreseeable future.

Mechanics also often try to rip people off on the timing belts on Puntos as most people aren't aware how simple they are to fit correctly and that if it were to snap NO superficial damage would be done to the engine (valves, pistons etc.) as it is a non-interference engine, whereas if it were to happen in another car it would cause serious damage to the valves at least.

Uncle Chenzo

i just read the first post in this thread.

Under absolutely no circumstances put anymore money in to this car.

Fiat puntos are probably one of the worst cars on the road. For anyone who disagrees with me, keep an eye out on the road, wherever you are in the country and i will absolutely guarantee you that the car you see broken down at the side of the road, usually abandoned, is a fiat punto.

I know a few people in the car business, sure you can sell them, they're everywhere, because they can move, some people like the look of them, zippy etc.... but when they go - they go. The head gaskets are a night mare on these things.

Do yourself a favour, go read up on some fiat forums. Take the hit, go out buy some japanese secondhand motor, for peanuts.

Walk away from the heartache.

beachlife

macroman wrote: »

It's not a hard job and for a Punto the price quoted is a bit steep. For that price I'd expect the water pump, thermostat, timing belt and head gasket and bolts replaced with new parts and the head skimmed and tested.

You're better off getting it done, you've come this far and put so much into the car it'd be a shame to waste it and start over. Very little goes wrong with Puntos - the Head Gasket problem is quite common but most garages see dozens of them a year and can knock them out in a day if they wanted. You can put the €350 into the car but don't expect to get it back when you come to sell it, so only put the money into it if you intend on keeping the car for the foreseeable future.

Mechanics also often try to rip people off on the timing belts on Puntos as most people aren't aware how simple they are to fit correctly and that if it were to snap NO superficial damage would be done to the engine (valves, pistons etc.) as it is a non-interference engine, whereas if it were to happen in another car it would cause serious damage to the valves at least.

Hi macroman,
I am not sure you could or would get the job done in a garage for that money as you have listed.It is listed as a five hour job and with the cars being ten years old could stretch out a little more due to rusted/broken bolts
etc... and the OP hasn't said if his punto is the 8 or 16valve version only the 8 valve is a free-running engine the 16 valve is an interference engine.

johndaman66

beachlife wrote: »

Hi macroman,
I am not sure you could or would get the job done in a garage for that money as you have listed.It is listed as a five hour job and with the cars being ten years old could stretch out a little more due to rusted/broken bolts
etc...

On the face of it I'd certainly agree. Five hours labour alone you are talking a fair whack of the 350 quid and that would be competitive enough as mechanics rates seem to go. You could no doubt conceivably spend 350 quid on labour alone if you wanted. Perhaps you know something I don't know though macroman! Wouldn't really give you a hell of a lot of change for parts and skimming the head. Also never mentioned in my previous post that many mechanics would also recommend a new or re-conditioned radiator for proper job

bonzodog2

Slightly off-topic,but,.....why are new bolts recommended when changing a head gasket ?

beachlife

bonzodog2 wrote: »

Slightly off-topic,but,.....why are new bolts recommended when changing a head gasket ?

It's not a recommendation they HAVE to be changed. The reason is that these are stretch bolts,When the are fitted they are tightened(torqued) to a set value,
then from that value the are tightened to a degree measurement(e.g. 45 degrees etc..)Once they have been fully tightened they do stretch....and because of that if you try to re-use them they are not of the same strength.

Not all head bolts are of the stretch type so some can be used again,also some manufacturers give a tolerance for there bolts so if they have not reached it they can be safely re-used

bonzodog2

Thanks. When I used to be more into mechanics than I am these days, head bolts/studs just had a torque setting; why are they now torque to x Nm and then an angular tightening ? Is it something to do with alloy heads ?

beachlife

the two part setting (torque and angle)is meant to be more accurate than the old way,and now there is no re-torquing of heads,so when the gasket "settles"
the stretch bolt will take up the slack.

FIAT 00

Hi Guys,

My car is back and running now...and the final charge was EUR 370 so pretty good.

Now he has changed everything ...the car sounds new...ah well...

So hopefully it wont brake again...:) but we all now:

FIX
IT
AGAIN
TOMORROW

AHAHA

johndaman66

FIAT 00 wrote: »

FIX
IT
AGAIN
TOMORROW

AHAHA

Now now, don't be saying that! Hopefully its good for you and am sure it will be.

Muckie

Ah the joys of motoring, we've all bein there.
!0 year old car bits and pieces fail, hopefully you'll be trouble
free for ages.