TONIGHT With Vincent Browne

sink

ascanbe wrote: »

I didn't get the impression he was advocating a game of chicken. Seemed to me he was suggesting that we negotiate from a position that suggests that anything would be better than the position we are currently in. To say 'we simply cannot afford this debt and it will destroy us'. He made a point of suggesting that a main tenet of the negotiational standpoint should concentrate on some kind of federalisation of the debt.
Perhaps he has some kind of hidden agenda to take down Europe etc; but i've seen no proof of it before and didn't tonight.

He's counting on them offering to take on our debt, otherwise we pull the trigger. That's a game of chicken.

SugarHigh

ArtSmart wrote: »

i dont disagree with what gangly is saying, but rather the reasons he's saying it.

Please enlighten us as to his reason?

No conspiracy theories please.

Sardonicat

ArtSmart wrote: »

found boards election results. em, not exactly em, exact.

Well, demographically, it's totally inaccurate (At least, I hope it is! I'd hate to think that only 20% of the female electorate bothered to vote!) But, it might be a good reflection of how certain demographic cohorts vote.

I'm more interested in the election after this. Now that will be interesting.

BlaasForRafa

Craebear wrote: »

I take it you voted Fine Gael then?

How I voted is between me and the ballot box, its one of the few items of privacy we have in this state.

I do dislike Ganley though because he seeks to use his money to propogate his right-wing politics, he rather reminds me of Ross Perot in how he uses his wealth to pursue his agenda.

He should have put himself before the electorate in this campaign but he was too chicken***t.

sink

SugarHigh wrote: »

I don't think there is any chance of Germany dumping the euro. If they were worried about a weak currency they never would have joined the euro. They had by far the strongest currency and always knew they would be switching to a weaker one.
There hasn't been any indication that they would consider dropping it.

They're hardly going to show their hand until the play it. Merely talking about dropping the euro would severely deepen the crisis and likely become a self fulfilling prophecy

Lady Chatterton

the groutch wrote: »

does Michael Noonan remind anyone else of

Ah now, Michael Noonan has been using the Oil of Olay for years

Sardonicat

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

He should have put himself before the electorate in this campaign but he was too chicken***t.

No, he's not too chicken schit. He was merely biding his time. One political behemoth destroyed; one to go. In the mean time, the electorate will polarise to the extremes until they are ripe and ready for him.

SugarHigh

sink wrote: »

They're hardly going to show their hand until the play it. Merely talking about dropping the euro would severely deepen the crisis and likely become a self fulfilling prophecy

So you can just let your imagination run wild. The idea of Germany simply dumping the euro and letting the eurozone collapse(It's largest trade partners) is laughable.

sink

SugarHigh wrote: »

So you can just let your imagination run wild. The idea of Germany simply dumping the euro and letting the eurozone collapse(It's largest trade partners) is laughable.

So is the idea that Germany will continue to bail out everyone indefinitely.

Safe option is to not play that game. Negotiate as partners rather than advisories. Put down the guns and work thorough it together.

Restructure the debt in a orderly fashion down the line.

Mr.Nice Guy

I didn't think what Ganley suggested was a lot different to what Constantin suggested on the show, or what McWilliams advocated on RTE a few days back.

That's what I found most frustrating about the election. I don't think any party really has a good solution for the problem and there doesn't seem to be a happy medium at all. Parties were either offering suggestions that were too trusting of Merkel and co., or else were advocating being completely stubborn and hardline. If there was a middle ground of the two I would have endorsed it.

I think what Vincent said was right. They have us by the balls and we'll just have to try and make the most of it, unfortunately. (Well he didn't quite say it like that but that was the idea)

BlaasForRafa

Sardonicat wrote: »

No, he's not too chicken schit. He was merely biding his time. One political behemoth destroyed; one to go. In the mean time, the electorate will polarise to the extremes until they are ripe and ready for him.

Thats making a massive assumption, one which I think is incorrect. Ireland has never been a fertile breeding ground for the far left and far right, for the most part ordinary people are more interested in stable centrist policies rather than extremist dogma

SugarHigh

sink wrote: »

So is the idea that Germany will continue to bail out everyone indefinitely.

Safe option is to not play that game. Negotiate as partners rather than advisories. Put down the guns and work thorough it together.

Restructure the debt in a orderly fashion down the line.

How are working through it together?
They have lent us money that we will either pay back with lots of interest so they profit or we crumble and end up in the same situation as if we simply write of the debt in the first place.

ArtSmart

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thats making a massive assumption, one which I think is incorrect. Ireland has never been a fertile breeding ground for the far left and far right, for the most part ordinary people are more interested in stable centrist policies rather than extremist dogma

'anarchy is but three square meals away.'

a quote from someone, forget who. (paraphrased of course)

Sardonicat

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Thats making a massive assumption, one which I think is incorrect. Ireland has never been a fertile breeding ground for the far left and far right, for the most part ordinary people are more interested in stable centrist policies rather than extremist dogma

LOL. I'm not trying to make a prediction. I'm aware of the political culture of Ireland, and I hope that we remain as free as possible from extremist of all hues. I'm painting the scenario that a slick opportunist like Ganley would like to see happen.

ArtSmart

SugarHigh wrote: »

Please enlighten us as to his reason?

No conspiracy theories please.

no conspiracy theories? fck that.


cant remember the details, but do remember feeling appalled by some of his rhetoric.

if he runs for election i'll research his statements - for the mo, meh.

sink

SugarHigh wrote: »

How are working through it together?
They have lent us money that we will either pay back with lots of interest so they profit or we crumble and end up in the same situation as if we simply write of the debt in the first place.

Germany won't want us to crumble, we're in the same boat. The difference is Germany has a lifejacket and we've concrete slippers. Neither of us really want the ship to sink but Germany will survive and we won't.

Germany has it's own domestic political concerns to deal with. Taking on our debt is about as popular with the German people as taking on Anglo's debt was with the Irish. It can't been seen to be caving into all our demands; at the same time letting us fall will be very bad for them. It's a delicate balancing act and requiring careful navigation.

In the end we will have to come to an arrangement that will suit both parties, but we won't get there by pointing guns at one another.

BlaasForRafa

Sardonicat wrote: »

LOL. I'm not trying to make a prediction. I'm aware of the political culture of Ireland, and I hope that we remain as free as possible from extremist of all hues. I'm painting the scenario that a slick opportunist like Ganley would like to see happen.

Fair enough.

Ganley would love to be megalomaniac in chief.

SEPT 23 1989

sink wrote: »

Germany won't want us to crumble, we're in the same boat. The difference is Germany has a lifejacket and we've concrete slippers. Neither of us really want the ship to sink but Germany will survive and we won't.

Germany has it's own domestic political concerns to deal with. Taking on our debt is about as popular with the German people as taking on Anglo's debt was with the Irish. It can't been seen to be caving into all our demands; at the same time letting us fall will be very bad for them. It's a delicate balancing act and requiring careful navigation.

In the end we will have to come to an arrangement that will suit both parties, but we won't get there by pointing guns at one another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21R2qxLsFrA

Sardonicat

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Fair enough.

Ganley would love to be megalomaniac in chief.

Well, I'm rowing in behind Constantin for Great Leader. Even got a hair flick like his. Lesser evil, and all that...

ascanbe

sink wrote: »

So is the idea that Germany will continue to bail out everyone indefinitely.

Safe option is to not play that game. Negotiate as partners rather than advisories. Put down the guns and work thorough it together.

Restructure the debt in a orderly fashion down the line.

Germany aren't 'bailing out everyone'. They are placing the entire burden of a debt that they are at least equally culpable for upon us; crippling us in the process.
You seem to be using the cards/poker analogy a lot; yet you suggest that when we enter negotiations we do so with a begging bowl to counter their ace.
Their ace being kicking us out of the EU; a card they can't afford to play.

SEPT 23 1989

Sardonicat wrote: »

Well, I'm rowing in behind Constantin for Great Leader. Even got a hair flick like his. Lesser evil, and all that...

:rolleyes::pac:

ascanbe

Sardonicat wrote: »

Well, I'm rowing in behind Constantin for Great Leader. Even got a hair flick like his. Lesser evil, and all that...

Constanin is saying pretty much exactly the same thing as Ganley regarding the banks and EU/IMF 'deal', as far as i can see.

JonathanAnon

Sardonicat wrote: »

Well, I'm rowing in behind Constantin for Great Leader. Even got a hair flick like his. Lesser evil, and all that...

Even got a Herr Flick?



I thought it was Herr Flick asking for his money back that caused the trouble in the first place.. See you all in the morning... 8am...

Sardonicat

ascanbe wrote: »

Constanin is saying pretty much exactly the same thing as Ganley regarding the banks and EU/IMF 'deal', as far as i can see.

As Art has said, it's not Ganley's views that are at issue, rather it is his motivation, which will become self evident as the next year or so progresses.

Plus, Constantin is sexy. If we're gonna end up with an oligarch, we should do it properly and have a Russian with a suitably exotic accent and a flicky fringe.:D

ArtSmart

Sardonicat wrote: »

Well, I'm rowing in behind Constantin for Great Leader. Even got a hair flick like his. Lesser evil, and all that...

hair flick. i likes that.

well, my eyes are sore, so it must be bedtime. nite all

sink

ascanbe wrote: »

Germany aren't 'bailing out everyone'. They are placing the entire burden of a debt that they are at least equally culpable for upon us; crippling us in the process.
You seem to be using the cards/poker analogy a lot; yet you suggest that when we enter negotiations we do so with a begging bowl to counter their ace.
Their ace being kicking us out of the EU; a card they can't afford to play.

Their ace being not lending us money needed to keep the government afloat. When the government can't afford to pay the wages to keep gaurds on the street, they will have no option to other than to start printing our own currency again.

Germany's exports will suffer, they will likely see a quick sharp retraction in their economy. But they will be able to continue to finance their public sector for a long enough period to see them through the storm.

They can afford to play this card. They won't want to, but if push comes to shove they can afford it. We will be wiped out.

They're not going to run us into the ground because so long as we continue to cooperate it's not in their interest. If we start trying to blackmail them with threats of suicide their interests will shift.

Sardonicat

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Even got a Herr Flick?



I thought it was Herr Flick asking for his money back that caused the trouble in the first place.. See you all in the morning... 8am...

First prize to Jonanon for giving Ganley his offical VB thread moniker.:D

Lady Chatterton

Sardonicat wrote: »

, Constantin is sexy. If we're gonna end up with an oligarch, we should do it properly and have a Russian with a suitably exotic accent and a flicky fringe.:D

I hear ya sister

ascanbe

sink wrote: »

Their ace being not lending us money needed to keep the government afloat. When the government can't afford to pay the wages to keep gaurds on the street, they will have no option to other than to start printing our own currency again.

Germany's exports will suffer, they will likely see a quick sharp retraction in their economy. But they will be able to continue to finance their public sector for a long enough period to see them through the storm.

They can afford to play this card. They won't want to, but if push comes to shove they can afford it. We will be wiped out.

They're not going to run us into the ground because so long as we continue to cooperate it's not in their interest. If we start trying to blackmail them with threats of suicide their interests will shift.

They can't afford to do it and won't do it.
We have to enter negotiations from the point of view that the current 'deal' is suicide for us; to make clear that leaving the Euro will be our only option if they insist that the 'deal' isn't changed significantly.
If we 'continue to co-operate' with the terms of the 'deal' as currently constructed we are definitely commiting suicide.

K-9

SugarHigh wrote: »

No one in this thread has even attempted to back up why they disagree with him. It's all based on disliking his personalty.

It's a Television thread.

Tbh, most No to Lisbon voters seen through him second time round. His choice of candidates throughout Europe for Libertas was entertaining though.