DMP Forum - What will happen in 2010?

ICN

Similar to a thread in the Dance Music forum.. Is there anything that can be done to make this forum better?

Its totally lacking in content in my opinion. All that is being used on a regular basis is the "post your tracks" bit.

I know everyone is busy etc.. But the forum would be used more (I'm sure..) if there were more Threads about techniques & methods.

I've seen a few Threads where Noobs are looking for advice on getting started & are being advised ( and it is actally sincere genuine advice.. ) to keep the head down & learn from online sources rather than do courses etc..

Totally cool with that.. but is that not what this forum is for too?

Wouldnt it be class to say - "Blah,blah,blah.. and btw.. follow this link to a Thread we had here a while back."

That exact type of interaction is missing at the moment & that is because theres no content. Everyones busy with work / life / Realationships / their own S hit.. without saying! :cool:



Just wanted to see what other folks had to say about it.

As for myself.. I'd like to see some content / practicle "how to guides" or "how to get that sound" - Tutorials with links to project files / example samples -whatever.

I havent really been posting in while as I'm back in College - so I know all about lack of time.. But I'm still finding my way with Music Production & have been using other w/sites more & more in the last few months.

Although all the information in the world is probably out there on the net, it would still be a great thing to exchange ideas here, in this particular place - like originally intended.. Otherwise, what was the point?

This isnt a moan Guys - Just an observation & an invitation to discuss the subject further.. So please dont take it as that as its not my intention. :pac:

seannash

its definitely eased off alright.
i know noobs get told to try it themselves but they never return with any questions.

i think alot of the noob questions on here are from people looking for the easy way to do things and as soon as there told to do a bit of work themselves they go elsewhere looking for an easier option.

id love to see alot more detailed tutorials from members on here.im sick of tutorials on sidechain compression or basic eqing,i want some stuff where you need to have a good bit of experience in order to understand it.

Neurojazz

seannash wrote: »

i think alot of the noob questions on here are from people looking for the easy way to do things and as soon as there told to do a bit of work themselves they go elsewhere looking for an easier option.

Yep, and I think when anyone comes here with a genuine question it would be handled well! - many people just want that quick route and most the people here know that music isn't for slackers

It was discussed very early on to make detailed technique sections etc... but we would end up with to many stickies and they wouldn't let me make subforums for each area - so we have to keep it simple and just add to the resource thread (the best place here for that sort of thing)

Clanket

As a noob, I came across this forum about 6 months ago. At first I was delighted as I thought Id get a lot of help from it. But there's very little actual help on production techniques etc. Has sidechain compression even been mentioned on here? If it has I must have missed it. I learned about it at a course I did on Reason. And Im sure there's a lot of other similar techniques I dont even know about that are not mentioned here.

Would definately help if there was a sticky on various production techniques with good explanations on each one.

And also more drum beats for Logic

Neurojazz

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

As a noob, I came across this forum about 6 months ago. At first I was delighted as I thought Id get a lot of help from it. But there's very little actual help on production techniques etc. Has sidechain compression even been mentioned on here? If it has I must have missed it. I learned about it at a course I did on Reason. And Im sure there's a lot of other similar techniques I dont even know about that are not mentioned here.

Would definately help if there was a sticky on various production techniques with good explanations on each one.

And also more drum beats for Logic

The thread would be to large, was discussed long time ago and the super mods won't let me have sub forums = no techniques section.

ICN

Neurojazz wrote: »

The thread would be to large, was discussed long time ago and the super mods won't let me have sub forums = no techniques section.

So it ends there? No sub forums so nothing is done

The passion that was so evident back when the whole DMP debate began cant have been extinguished due to the absence of the facility to create sub forums.

Was the success or failure of the DMP really hinged on that?

I think its defined by the amount of content - or lack of and the amount of users who participate & improve their skills as a result.

Pro-active rather than reactive.


So.. Lets say we need housekeeping - Why cant there be 1 sticky with all the threads listed as links?

Better still - Dont bother.

Just create threads & users can search or kind people can redirect if a question is asked again. Thats the way it works on most other forums.. Would be fantastic to have that system of course - but who knows what will be possible in the future?

No-one can justify lobbying for change (or even subforums) if you dont do anything with the thing which you were given in the first place.

Either this forum reaches its potential or it becomes a redundant relic.

Seems like a real shame to be sitting on our collective hands when the real possibility to do something is absoultely there.

I wonder what everyone else thinks?

Neurojazz

Well, i don't think it will happen - impartiality doesn't happen here, mac v pc or my daw is better than yours (without even seeing other ones) keep creeping up constantly.

So threads would descend into unfocused mush fairly quickly.

The amount of techniques involved also, as per a curriculum would be crazy to try and do this in an organised format publicly without the thread going off topic fast - ideally there would be a protocol for the threads, and most people don't read that sort of information and follow it - so the the thread would be dragged into newbie posts while the people who have focused lose the will to live.

The Meta thread idea is a simple solution and i'd agree, but it would be much crap and occasional nuggets in there.

I think what you want, and what you visualize is more possible with premade posts that are sent privately to myself and then i assemble / edit / host pictures (for life) and then produce a separate webpage where we can have these topics on an ad-free site - then the contributions are kept pure from mudslinging/waffle/etc...

But to do it here on boards... it's to large a subject for the forum format - this is a place for discussion, not for a 'total topic coverage / education system'

seannash

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

As a noob, I came across this forum about 6 months ago. At first I was delighted as I thought Id get a lot of help from it. But there's very little actual help on production techniques etc. Has sidechain compression even been mentioned on here? If it has I must have missed it. I learned about it at a course I did on Reason. And Im sure there's a lot of other similar techniques I dont even know about that are not mentioned here.

Would definately help if there was a sticky on various production techniques with good explanations on each one.

And also more drum beats for Logic

if you had read anything about producing dance music side chain compression would come up.

i dont think ive seen too many questions from you on here.the reason theres no real basics covered is because the majority of us know them already.

but thats not to say that we wont help out when asked a question.

if you have a problem with your tracks sounding flat,ask for a solution

if you want to know how to eq better,ask

etc etc etc

ICN

Neurojazz wrote: »

Well, i don't think it will happen - impartiality doesn't happen here, mac v pc or my daw is better than yours (without even seeing other ones) keep creeping up constantly.

So threads would descend into unfocused mush fairly quickly.

The amount of techniques involved also, as per a curriculum would be crazy to try and do this in an organised format publicly without the thread going off topic fast - ideally there would be a protocol for the threads, and most people don't read that sort of information and follow it - so the the thread would be dragged into newbie posts while the people who have focused lose the will to live.

The Meta thread idea is a simple solution and i'd agree, but it would be much crap and occasional nuggets in there.

I think what you want, and what you visualize is more possible with premade posts that are sent privately to myself and then i assemble / edit / host pictures (for life) and then produce a separate webpage where we can have these topics on an ad-free site - then the contributions are kept pure from mudslinging/waffle/etc...

But to do it here on boards... it's to large a subject for the forum format - this is a place for discussion, not for a 'total topic coverage / education system'

I understand where you are coming from, but I believe that you cant control everything. From my experience, Life is not perfect.

People are always going to ask questions that have been asked before. I point here was to share & nurture a community spirit where everyone was going in the same direction. Maybe a new "nugget" might be revealed on the
6th time a question is asked as the people posting might be new also. Things have to be open.

Just wondering why links to S*hite threads have to be included in the Sticky thread?

Would it not be better to specifically add those quality threads as they emerge?


This is being made far too complicated.

In regards to 'total topic coverage / education system' and the rest.. We're not trying to map DNA here. :pac:

People ask questions + Look for advice = People respond?

There is never going to be a system where Noobs stop asking Noob questions.

Do we want to be Inclusive? or Elitist?

A cool forum that I've been to is IDM Forumshttp://www.idmforums.com/

The Studio

http://www.idmforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=81

For the most part everyone is treated with respect. I dont see lots of mudslinging. Everyone helps out. Why cant we base this on that model?

At the other end of the spectrum if you want to see it is MNML.NL http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=17&sid=6d618da6cadda614f0bd1bc11e5346b1

Everyone is slagged for asking questions like - How does so & so get that sound etc.. I actually looked through every page of that forum one day (I was v.bored.. :rolleyes:) & found nothing useful on it. Tone & attitude was far too negative to be of any help.

We have something good here.. Positive attitude & the potential to share. That was the original intention was it not?

People have an interest. Some might be looking to be spoonfed because they dont have the time to stop working / commuting / get out of debt / being parents etc.. to go on a production course.

Those of us who are not as experienced have a finite amount of time each day / evening to find soultions. Many of us do not know anyone with an abundance of knowledge that we can have a 121 with when we have spare time. Fact. Thats just the way the dice rolled.

Everyone has different abilities / levels etc.. & I doubt that "everything" has to be just right mechanically with our sub forum in order for it to work.

Premade posts surely just involve too many cooks. Involving different sites yada yada yada.. still too complicated IMO.

Besides, doesnt Boards.ie sell advert space?

Is it not better to work with what we have?

ICN

seannash wrote: »

if you had read anything about producing dance music side chain compression would come up.

i dont think ive seen too many questions from you on here.the reason theres no real basics covered is because the majority of us know them already.

but thats not to say that we wont help out when asked a question.

if you have a problem with your tracks sounding flat,ask for a solution

if you want to know how to eq better,ask

etc etc etc

Totally agree with that Man.. Thinking that the whole time when I'm writing these replies actually. Have to ask.. otherwise you wont find out. Goes without saying.

There seems to be a lot of potential here that has not been realised.

I imagined that there would be more of a pro-active agenda here rather than reactive.

Dont know.. There was so much fanfare to the whole thing that it just hasnt lived up to (my) expectations (so far.. anyway).

You're right.. Questions need to be asked. However, it would be cool to have some regular content volunteered from time to time also.

Neurojazz

What's the resource sticky for? - I'm not over complicating anything, the resource thread is where you can post links to useful places in a useful manner - newbies can be sent there and there's already enough there to keep someone busy for a fair while already.

In that sticky you can post simple links to external info or guides and it gets edited or pruned.

Pretty simple imo.

I think your over complicating things by preemptively having information ready for a forum visitor - which they would have to sift through - (an index also?, structered?)

It's much better that they just ask and can be pointed to the resource thread for the 'defacto' information that is put on there.

If you feel there are fundamentals missing, make a nice post and send it for the resources post - i have no problem putting content into there.

ICN

Mate.. I'm running with some of your ideas here btw.. I'm offering suggestions as to how you can make your original intentions work, rather than giving up on them. I'm honestly not trying to make things complicated by incorporating your ideas.

Neurojazz wrote: »

The thread would be to large, was discussed long time ago and the super mods won't let me have sub forums = no techniques section.

My angle is whether anything different can be done in 2010 on the DMP forum.

Lets try to think beyond the complications & limits that we percieve to be there

My opinion is that its not living up to what it could be. Someone has to play Devils Advocate here. Reflection is always a good thing.

Is there any other Irish Forum like this? This has to be ****ing unique!


Can anything new or different be done to make things better?

Has the full potential been reached?

Might anything be done to increase new users / traffic / amount of threads / posts? Is that wanted - Or is it to stay like this?

I'd love to see a bit of content from you Guys making tracks / releasing them. Give an example of layering kicks / Eq'ing kicks to basslines.. Basics of making some common synth sounds / FX etc... Maybe even give examples of how you did something from a particular track.. :cool:

What do you think about that? Can that be done simply?

Neurojazz

The real obvious solution would be to parse this sort of detailed input into a separate EDM site that we could send people to, and that they could navigate simply imo, then hosted images are kept safe (not imageshack etc...) where links time out - i can even donate a secure player if we wanted it - nice simple and clean buttons for audio playback.

Other than that, i could prune the resources thread to keep it tidy and make any new content that is made visible and easy to find.

For submissions about projects etc... i'm all game.

ICN

Neurojazz wrote: »

The real obvious solution would be to parse this sort of detailed input into a separate EDM site that we could send people to, and that they could navigate simply imo, then hosted images are kept safe (not imageshack etc...) where links time out - i can even donate a secure player if we wanted it - nice simple and clean buttons for audio playback.

Other than that, i could prune the resources thread to keep it tidy and make any new content that is made visible and easy to find.

For submissions about projects etc... i'm all game.

Thats grand Mate

But we're back to the chicken & egg situation. Is this other site going to have content?

I'd like to hear what other people think.. I've been banging on for a while now.

Neurojazz

ICN wrote: »

Thats grand Mate

But we're back to the chicken & egg situation. Is this other site going to have content?

I'd like to hear what other people think.. I've been banging on for a while now.

We'd ideally have information that we'd discuss on the threads condensed and hosted on an external site that we can link back to for new people.

e.g. Jtsuited and sean talk about side-chaining, other people join in and the most common sense stuff gets pulled out and hosted elsewhere.... we go look at it, make comments and refine... These threads would be deliberate and for our EDM 'linkage' utility page - dropbox i can see being handy for getting mp3 of sample material (that's copyright free) - so will have to look into that (unless someone can convince soundcloud to let us have unlimited access for a banner

I can overlook it all, keep it impartial as possible (as platform specific would date the material and restrict it a little), host images, keep backups, pay for stuff that we need (players, bandwidth, url etc...)

seannash

i do think alot of it comes down to spare time.
mos of us are pretty busy and as such any time we get is spent on actually making music and as such we dint do very many tutorials.

seems to be alot of "doers"as opposed to alot of talkers which is what you find on most production forums.


that being said i would love to see more tutorials especially from the more experienced guys(who can back it up).

i promise ill do a tutorial as ive been meaning to do for some time but my music isnt exactly pro but sure what the hell ill make it a step by step or something

ICN

Hey Neuro..

You know about websites & all that stuff dont you? I vaguely recall you talking before about Google hits before.. Maybe I'm wrong?


When you put in Dance Music Production Forum into Google - Our one is 10th on the 1st page.

Are those results jigged especially for our region - Ireland - or would the same results be true anywhere in the world you searched?

I'm sure its per region, but I'm intrigued.

Neurojazz

ICN wrote: »

Hey Neuro..

You know about websites & all that stuff dont you? I vaguely recall you talking before about Google hits before.. Maybe I'm wrong?


When you put in Dance Music Production Forum into Google - Our one is 10th on the 1st page.

Are those results jigged especially for our region - Ireland - or would the same results be true anywhere in the world you searched?

I'm sure its per region, but I'm intrigued.

Regional yep - there are tools for working out where hits come from, but only for the webmaster of the site pretty much... It's very easy to drive a site to number one on searches if it's financed, but a public/free forum can tend to slip down a bit due to a myriad of reasons (even if popular)

ICN

Neurojazz wrote: »

Regional yep - there are tools for working out where hits come from, but only for the webmaster of the site pretty much... It's very easy to drive a site to number one on searches if it's financed, but a public/free forum can tend to slip down a bit due to a myriad of reasons (even if popular)

B a stards :rolleyes:

jtsuited

i'd post a lot more here if i wasn't busy making records.

or being banned!

ICN

jtsuited wrote: »

i'd post a lot more here if i wasn't busy making records.

or being banned!

Haha!

Savman

Splitting from the main Music Production was a bad idea. As I said at the time, there simply wasn't enough traffic to warrant 2 forums so now we have the same users just split between here and there.

FWIW I actually liked the cross section of studio geeks and dance geeks and I think both forums have suffered as a result.

ICN

Savman wrote: »

Splitting from the main Music Production was a bad idea. As I said at the time, there simply wasn't enough traffic to warrant 2 forums so now we have the same users just split between here and there.

FWIW I actually liked the cross section of studio geeks and dance geeks and I think both forums have suffered as a result.

Cool - But please lets not go off topic.. This is about how we can make things better Mate

It lost a bit of momentum & needed a bit of a bang to get back on track.

Its going well so far I think.. Seans Thread is excellent & has been looked at a fair bit. It will be used if everyone participates.

Onwards & upwards

Savman

ICN wrote: »

Cool - But please lets not go off topic.. This is about how we can make things better Mate

Fair enough, just give us back jtsuited and nobody else will get hurt :pac:

ICN

Eh..We're still waiting for you to pay the ransom!

seannash

Savman wrote: »

Splitting from the main Music Production was a bad idea. As I said at the time, there simply wasn't enough traffic to warrant 2 forums so now we have the same users just split between here and there.

FWIW I actually liked the cross section of studio geeks and dance geeks and I think both forums have suffered as a result.

hmm i dont really think the production forum has suffered as a result.i pop in there alot and its still going strong.

we have to remember that this forum is still very new.new members are joining all the time.
as with any forum there was a flood of activity in the begining but its tapered off now(naturally) but its hardly a ghost town.

to be honest id never have posted a thread like the one im doing now because quite frankly i dont think i would have gotten the questions and replies i got from like minded individuals.

even at that its not hard to flick between the two.i see paul brewer on here alot answering questions but not many others.this is kind of a reflection of what it was like before the plit with not alot of people interested in the dance music side and quetions going unanswered or lost in the shuffle.

sorry to go OT.

Anyway as jtsuited pointed out alot of the producers on here are actually busy making music with any spare time.
Maybe one of the lads could post up a remix pack of one of there tracks for other to remix.(not to be too discouraging to noobs but id prefer if it were one of the more experienced producers on the forum so we could see how a "professional" track is made).
Nothing official bu just something to have a mess with

jtsuited

tell ya's what...i'll stick up the afrikaans remix parts when the release comes out and you can all bootleg the sh1t out of them.
I'll check with the label if it's cool, and let ya's know.

unfortunately the internet is miles behind current music production techniques and there are so many tiny little tricks that you only learn with ridiculous amounts of experience.

honest to god if I see one more sidechaining tutorial on the internet I'm going to go nuts!!

jtsuited

oh yeah and just a word of advice to everyone. don't get banned from the music production forum....you get banned from here too!!
found that out the hard way!

seannash

jtsuited wrote: »

tell ya's what...i'll stick up the afrikaans remix parts when the release comes out and you can all bootleg the sh1t out of them.
I'll check with the label if it's cool, and let ya's know.

unfortunately the internet is miles behind current music production techniques and there are so many tiny little tricks that you only learn with ridiculous amounts of experience.

honest to god if I see one more sidechaining tutorial on the internet I'm going to go nuts!!

good on you jeff,would love a stab at that alright.

(sean deletes his sidechining tutorial hes been working on all day)

jtsuited

seannash wrote: »

good on you jeff,would love a stab at that alright.

(sean deletes his sidechining tutorial hes been working on all day)

haha were you really doing a sidechain tutorial???:D

Clanket

Lads how about having a sticky thread with links to youtube tutorials on the various elements of production? If you find a good tutorial you can then post a link in the sticky?