Australia Deporting Irish for Visa Fraud

Beachband

Do this forum opperate under a democracy or not?
It seems to veer to the opposite sometimes, all that people are doing here is expressing their feallings to what is a very touchy subject.

What is true is - Ireland at present is in bad shape, who's fault is it - Government.
I do believe that when a country is struggling, that new temperary visa law options should be made available with other countries, to help the youth of Ireland, and any other able bodied citizen who aren't getting a fair crack at employment etc to go to another country and experience it work wise etc.

Ireland has done a hell of a lot for other countries, which was very evident during the Tiger years - not allot of money was put back into the Irish economy by those who availed of it - it was saved and went back to their own countries.
Australia have benefited from the Irish themselves many years ago. All that is going on with this thread is peoples disillusionment with current circumstances in Ireland, and how they can better themselves, yes there are right ways and there are wrong ways, I'm sure everyone would like to be able to do it the right way.

20 Times 20 Times

Larianne wrote: »

I don't think people realise you can go work in a petrol station out near Ayers Rock and its considered rural work. If it's hard work people are afraid of.

I didn't know... but jaysus I wish I had known....

/wave

Larianne

Sarge wrote: »

/wave

I was gonna but then thought not to. But then you did. :rolleyes:

m@cc@

shane86 wrote: »

Really, I have to wonder whether all you serves-them-right crowd actually express these opinions publicly to other Irish here.

Of course I'd say it, I don't think it's a controversial opinion. What you seem to forget is that these fraudsters, if successful, are possibly depriving a decent honest person of their 1st WHV.

hussey

shane86 wrote: »

Really, I have to wonder whether all you serves-them-right crowd actually express these opinions publicly to other Irish here.

Yes of course we do, I don't think anyone who is kicked out of Australia because they knowingly submitted an illegal 2nd year visa application can have any complaints.

everyone knows that the consequences of doing this is deportation, so if it happens why would anyone have any beef about it?

I know a few people who have worked maybe 1/2 or 2/3 and got signed off early and they all said the same "it is a risk I'm willing to take".

Seriously, what is your argument?

CiaranC

Regulator79 wrote: »

In some cases it wont, in other it will. People could meet and marry Aussies get sponsored by an employer. Or merely, enjoy another year in Australia and away from an Irish dole queue. Whats wrong with that?

Good grief, its a working holiday visa, not a vehicle to meet and marry Australians so you can get citizenship.

If people want sponsorship/citizenship, go through the perfectly valid route for skilled sponsorship that all the guys with PR here have. If people dont qualify for this, its no wonder their lives in Ireland are ****, its because they have no skills or qualifications. :rolleyes:

Mellor

can rock and roll earlier if ya dont mind the HEAT, I was up there a few years ago and it was in the 52-53 mark, nice place tho, lots of gear there, has a train station & broadband

I can't say for certain, and I'm not calling you a liar or anything. But i'm pretty sure the highest ever in Oz was 50 degrees, and that was years ago (something random I heard with the Heat wave in melbourne)

Mahatma coat wrote: »

in fairness it dosent take all that much effort to be allowed live here, a 457 is 500 oddd quid every four years, if ya cant save that Fvck off,

I wish it was that easy. After putting in 6 months with a company (related to my degree), who say they have work for me if I stay. who also, won't sponsor me as "they don't do 457 visas"

kittex wrote: »

Ah, I know a Scottish gal who was denied her 2nd year WHV because the farmer she worked for came up in a few Irish and English WHV fraudulent applications. She had done 10 weeks (2 weeks short of the 3 months) but the farmer signed her off. But as the other employment dates on other people were so dodge, she was denied and was given has 20 days to leave Aus. Shame. She did more than most fraudsters!

There is no such thing as almost in terms of a visa, all or nothing.
It's a shame, but its also tough.

Zambia232 wrote: »

If the Irish applicants begin to forge documents and chance their arm Ireland is ranked high risk and a standard visa app could stretch to 3 years

I don't think anybody was forging docs, no need to make it sound worse.

Zambia232 wrote: »

Tell me how a 2nd year in Oz fixes the situation you describe above.

I would of guessed that obviously, another year gives ireland a chance to get back on its feet. In 12 months, maybe the industries hit hardest might have a bit of work going.

Traq

m@cc@ wrote: »

Of course I'd say it, I don't think it's a controversial opinion. What you seem to forget is that these fraudsters, if successful, are possibly depriving a decent honest person of their 1st WHV.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, but I don't see how a 'fraudster' being successful would deprive another person of their first visa?

Zambia

Mellor wrote: »

I don't think anybody was forging docs, no need to make it sound worse.

Using an ABN you got of the internet hoping its not checked, is a forged document. Or at least a lie you have signed.

Mellor wrote: »

I would of guessed that obviously, another year gives ireland a chance to get back on its feet. In 12 months, maybe the industries hit hardest might have a bit of work going.

This is true, but its still sticking your head in the sand although you are hoping things get better while its in there. Apart from people like yourself who are getting experience in their field in Oz.

Xavi6

Beachband wrote: »

Do this forum opperate under a democracy or not?

No it doesn't and it never has.

m@cc@

Traq wrote: »

Not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view, but I don't see how a 'fraudster' being successful would deprive another person of their first visa?

A 2nd year WHV is the same as a 1st year WHV. And at a time when there's talk of tightening the numbers, one of these chancers could get a WHV at the expense of a person applying for their first..

Traq

A 2nd year WHV is the same as a 1st year WHV. And at a time when there's talk of tightening the numbers, one of these chancers could get a WHV at the expense of a person applying for their first..

In fairness, there's been talk of tightening the numbers for years with no sign of it happening yet, so I don't think that's exactly an issue. If it was similar to Canada where there's a limited number every year then I could see your point but as it stands I don't really see that argument as valid. Not that I disagree with your view on people cheating the system.

I'm in the same boat as Hussey and know of a few people who've chanced their arm at it, and each person has known the consequences of what would happen if they got caught, and in fact know of a few people who've decided to fly home rather than be deported when asked for more evidence from Immigration.

In general I think that people who submit the applications for second working holiday visas know exactly what the consequences are if they get caught. It just seems that at he moment Immigration are really clamping down on it, so as a result a lot more people are being detected and those that are caught can't really complain too much.

Mahatma coat

I can't say for certain, and I'm not calling you a liar or anything. But i'm pretty sure the highest ever in Oz was 50 degrees, and that was years ago (something random I heard with the Heat wave in melbourne)

there is a sign outside Cloncurry claimin that the temp reached 53, this however has recently been disputed ( theres some remote work for a Signwriter;))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloncurry,_Queensland


and yeah I wouldnt sign an affidavit or anything sayin it was 52 but Fvck it was Hot and I was readin a mercury thermomoter attached to the frame of the Ute.

m@cc@

Traq wrote: »

In fairness, there's been talk of tightening the numbers for years with no sign of it happening yet, so I don't think that's exactly an issue. If it was similar to Canada where there's a limited number every year then I could see your point but as it stands I don't really see that argument as valid. Not that I disagree with your view on people cheating the system.

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

Traq

m@cc@ wrote: »

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

You could also argue that and I wouldn't have disagreed with that! :P

shane86

hussey wrote: »

everyone knows that the consequences of doing this is deportation, so if it happens why would anyone have any beef about it?

Actually the consequences of being caught are a strongly worded email demanding you leave. The DIAC realises we are keeping constructuion and the like afloat in Sydney. If they really wanted rid of us they would raid certain bars on certain busy days.

QUOTE=Larianne;64011052]I don't think people realise you can go work in a petrol station out near Ayers Rock and its considered rural work. If it's hard work people are afraid of.

.[/QUOTE]

I wish. Rural work is only all farming and certain construction (IIRC only construction of new buildings, renovation etc doesnt count).

The attitude of some people here is sick and, to paraphrase the term "non Auatralian", a hatred of chancing your arm is pretty non Irish.

shane86

m@cc@ wrote: »

Well, you could also argue, is it right that Irish people on illegal 2nd year WHVs are allowed to compete with people on 1st year visas and Aussies for jobs when they shouldn't even be in the country?

Are you having a laugh? Have you actually ever met any Aussies? The reason 5.9% of NSW people are unemployed is, simply, they cant be arsed. They stay with their parents and live off the dole. Sweet life to bake in the sun all day and get paid for it while we break our balls to pay the rent. Pathetic to be honest. Maybe in rural areas there might be a problem, but ffs only the other day I read near on half of school leavers in Sydney West fail to gain work. Yet I bet you a grand if I was to rock into a supermarket or takeaway in Bankstown and the like all the staff would be fresh off the boat Indians and Chinese doing the work the local kids wouldnt bother doing. And its not even your typical tough high crime tough areas, the amount of upper class Aussies who refuse to work is unreal. Even more pathetic that the government is trying to kick out the Irish who contribute tax to keep these wasters in benefits and do the work they cant be arsed doing. This week I worked on a renovation of a medical centre- there was a government erected sign outside about how it was part of Rudds stimulus plan basically stating how the plan was meant to reinvigorate Aussie jobs.

Of all on site, 3 Irish, an English foreman, a Kiwi, 4 Chinese gyprockers and not one Aussie.

Says it all really :rolleyes: And we need to be thrown out?

woolymammoth

shane86 wrote: »

Rural work is only all farming and certain construction (IIRC only construction of new buildings, renovation etc doesnt count).

Actually, rural work is usually all farming!

According to DIAC, "work undertaken in the mining and construction sectors must appear in the ANZSIC division for these sectors to meet the specified work requirement."

myhorse

The_B_Man wrote: »

peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139480

cabbages!:rolleyes:

Thanks Dude

watna wrote: »

It against our charter to discuss illegal ways to enter Australia, but there are certain posters who don't get that.

It is something I am going to be much more on to from now on, after a recent spate of threads. So threads will be deleted on sight and posters banned.

Its the only way. I mentioned in one of my earlier posts on here when I joined, DIAC do monitor certain boards/sites. I am not saying this one but one not a million miles from here does get watched.

Those deported were detained in Sydney and Brisbane airports on returning from Christmas trips home to Ireland. Some were held overnight in the Villawood detention centre in western Sydney before being put on a plane. Others were put on the next available flight without being detained.
Does anyone see the little sting in the tale there? Made me laugh....DIAC having a bit of fun me thinks... So if they applied offshore for the 2nd visa why not refuse it or ask for more details....if they already had the 2nd visa why not stop them when they were leaving for Christmas?? Instead wait till they have spent money on tickets home etc had their trip home, say goodbye to everyone at home, see ya's next year, hop off the plane in sydney or whereever and then get turned straight around hehe.
Be interesting to know if they were all using the same false details???

Anyways I am glad - they have put down a marker and its buyer beware from here on in. Plus I presume, open to correction, these little sons and daughters of Ireland now have a criminal record? So no Canada or Yankeeland for them if they do feel the travel urge soon.
Wonder if there is an international database to flag up visa abusers when they arrive at customs?

Traq

Fair enough, maybe deportation was the wrong word but essentially you're on your way out of the country pretty quickly.

shane86

myhorse wrote: »

Anyways I am glad - they have put down a marker and its buyer beware from here on in. Plus I presume, open to correction, these little sons and daughters of Ireland now have a criminal record? So no Canada or Yankeeland for them if they do feel the travel urge soon.
Wonder if there is an international database to flag up visa abusers when they arrive at customs?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

As for gleefulness about them getting banned from the US/ Canada, afaik you only get a black mark on your passport if you are deported at the expense of the country that threw you out, if you can pay your own flight you are grand.

Bet you are fairly upset about that one, those crafty Irish should be serving life for what they did :rolleyes: Disgusting attitude.

As for the Christmas crowd I know of three through mates who got refused, which makes me surprised there was only 12 in total pulled in. Awful stuff.

Beachband

Xavi6 wrote: »

No it doesn't and it never has.

Ya a sign of the times we are currently in then!

Its funny how such a small Island as Ireland has been so generous to others over the last decade, and now our own folk are having to decide whether to prevail into the unknown with chancing their arm of getting a 2nd WHV etc, by whatever means through the grapevine of naive knowledge.
Australia as a CONTINENT has been so generous to others(about 40 years ago, you could get citizenship for about 20 pounds, thats including getting there).

Do people not get it here on this forum! We would not be discussing this if it were 2006! It is 2010 - Ireland is in bad shape - - STILL,,, OZ - - In relatively good shape - hence why people are trying to stay on there, even if it is just for one more year.

Im also pretty sure the people who are trying to stay on there in Oz illegally are all in their twenties(at the eldest)

Come on people get a grip!!!! Can ya blame them!!!! - - Times are different!!

shane86

Beachband wrote: »

Do people not get it here on this forum! We would not be discussing this if it were 2006! It is 2010 - Ireland is in bad shape - - STILL,,, OZ - - In relatively good shape - hence why people are trying to stay on there, even if it is just for one more year.

I loved my life back home until I turned 20 and probably wouldnt have feared returning from Oz. I blame the fact we havent had a summer since 2006 (though the cost of living to wages certainly weighs in)

Beachband

I just do think that - We as a country have helped out so many, Australia is a vast country, built by Irish etc etc etc etc. Ireland is a small small country and is stillllllllllll in dire straits, you cant blame people for trying to stay away from Ireland until it picks up economically again.
I cant believe a WHV is been taken so seriously!!!!!
Question, Who partakes in getting a WHV? - - - - people between 18 and 30, surely that says it all.
If you want to go down the other visa routes......be prepared for a long wait(unless you get sponsorship lucky)........WAIT FOR IT............thats what people generally do if they are too old for a WHV to begin with/have used it previously.

myhorse

shane86 wrote: »

You should be ashamed of yourself.

Not ashamed in the least. Like many in here I played by the rules. At the end of it I got my citizenship. I get my HR dept to employ Irish if and when I can arrange. I always make sure anyone from my home town who comes over and want to meet up get shown around and introduced to others. I have and will continue to help anyway I can.
I dont ,however, have anytime for anyone cheating the system.

shane86 wrote: »

As for gleefulness about them getting banned from the US/ Canada, .....
Bet you are fairly upset about that one, those crafty Irish should be serving life for what they did :rolleyes: Disgusting attitude.

why is it a disgusting attitude - who the **** gave them the right to decide which rules of another country to flout

shane86 wrote: »

As for the Christmas crowd I know of three through mates who got refused, which makes me surprised there was only 12 in total pulled in. Awful stuff.

Again why awful? You play the game you play by the rules otherwise your off.

Beachband

Why do people begrudge others so easily?
Do people not know a little bit of Australian history? - It don't go back that far ya know!
I do not condone or condemn people who flout rules - it is their decision, and maybe they dont make their decisions so lightly as some posters on here think.

I'm glad I am not in their position, but ya know you gotta think to yourself why are they trying to stay on in Oz longer.........

---

.......cos Ireland aint doing so well!

m@cc@

Beachband wrote: »

Why do people begrudge others so easily?

Because others pay the price for their actions. It makes the Irish look like a bunch of chancers who see rules as things to be broken. End of.

mandrake04

Beachband wrote: »

Why do people begrudge others so easily?

Not Sure but there is plenty of begrudgers on these boards....


I once heard Gerry Ryan say that Ireland is full of begrudgers .... He was talking in reference about some Irish celebrity getting sucked into a fight in a Dublin nightclub...... there is always some gouger's out to shake you down when you have a made something of yourself..... Pathetic


I agree with a previous poster that an increased use of fraudulent documentation by Irish people would make Ireland be declared a High Risk Category by DIAC..... In effect they would be reducing Irelands applicants (God forbid) to the same level as those applicants from Sub-Continent countries.

Most High risk countries are not allowed WHV because they would abuse the system.

Mahatma coat

Ah shur someone needs ta tell The Aussies that their Rules dont apply to the Irish.


Look I am not a big fan of rules and regulations meself, but most Australians are, and they like nice simple clear written on the back of a stamp type rules, like the great boards Catchall 'Dont be a Dick'
they also hold the Concept of a fair go as a central tennet of the culture

so with this in mind some enlightened individual in the Glorious days of the Howard Government decided that a fair go should be extended to all these backpackers who wanted to spend another year here.

its a blindingly simple Fvckin arangement,
1)Go to the Outback, get a Job, stay there for 3 months, get yer employer to sign a form saying that you did it
2) Give that form to an Immigration office
3) No there are no Questionmarks
4)Profit

I just heard from Scottish guy who I sent up to a neighbor of ours in FNQ, he spent 3+ months on a cattle station, faffin about on horses musterin fencin and generally havin the time of his life & Gettin Food Board Booze and a Wage

Thats a fair go and its available to anyone who gets off their arse and wants it.

m@cc@

It amazes me, the hypocrisy of people as well. You'd hear widespread condemnation of Eastern Europeans coming over to Ireland and faking work documents/qualifications in order to get jobs here. But put the shoe on the other foot and anything is fair game? BS!