10 Reasons Why Professional Photographers Charge What They Do!

mindundalk

Hi Everyone,

As a professional photographer for 6 years now sometimes you get haggled especially now that were in recession so i've put together 10 reasons why professional photographers charge what we do!

http://www.lifestylephotography.ie/blog/news/10-reasons-professional-photographers-charge/

Hope this helps

Fenster

Thank you for fixing the link.

sunny2004

its a magical professional large link

Fenster

Size == professionalism? What an interesting theory...

sunny2004

mindundalk wrote: »

Hi Everyone,

As a professional photographer for 6 years now sometimes you get haggled especially now that were in recession so i've put together 10 reasons why professional photographers charge what we do!

I have not checked the link, but I would have thought that you charge what you charge because you are good, and if your good your in demand.. I never haggle.. ever..

Wile E. Coyote

To make it a bit easier

http://www.lifestylephotography.ie/blog/news/10-reasons-professional-photographers-charge/

10. Professional photographers are in business, and as a business, need to make a profit. Because they make it their career, they dedicate themselves to becoming the best they can be, and share that knowledge with their clientele.
9. Professional photographers have to buy professional equipment. Nope, they don’t just pick up a point-and-shoot from Harvey Normans and declare themselves a professional. They spend thousands upon thousands of euro getting multiple camera bodies, the finest lenses, flash equipment for every situation, tripods, light stands, backdrops, props, carrying and storage cases. And then when you think you have it all – you need to get backups for everything to make sure you never miss an image.
8. Professional photographers continue their education, and learn as much as they can about the business. They join groups like the IrishProfessional Photographers Association . They attend seminars and training by some of the best names in the business. They concentrate on becoming the best they can be.
7. Professional photographers don’t just snap a picture, they create a photograph. They understand positioning. They understand lighting. They understand placement. You’re not just paying for the ability to place a finger on the trigger and snap a picture. You’re paying for the years of experience it took to create the perfect image.
6. Professional photographers can spend hours producing one professional photograph. Time can include:

• creating the marketing
• answering emails and phone calls
• meeting with the client to talk about the event
• setting up for the event
• drive time to and from the event
• time for the actual photographing
• running to and from the lab
• meeting with the client for previews and decisions
• processing the image
• retouching the image
• mounting the image
• framing the image
• packaging the image
• dropping off final images
• production work
• follow up work

Add it all up, and you can see why one portrait session may include hours worth of work. It’s impossible to stay in business if you only make a few pennies per client.
5. Professional photographers have to be more than photographers. They have to be CEOs and marketers, and bankers, and salespeople, and production workers, and janitors, and buyers, and negotiators, and networkers, and drivers, and organizers. And photographers. That’s a lot of skills for one person to master.

4. Professional photographers will do it all. Want to get married at the top of a 14,000 foot high mountain, where the only way up is a 30 minute ski-lift ride? A professional photographer will be there. Want a portrait running through the waves on a Mediterranean beach? A professional photographer will be there.
3. Professional photographers aren’t just order takers, they provide total customer service. Professionals photograph dozens or even hundreds of clients a year. They understand what looks good, how to put together albums, and how to group multiple photographs together. Their goal is to provide you with what you need and what’s best for you – not just have you sign on the dotted line.
2. Professional photographers watch for the newest, most innovative, creative products available. They stay up to date on industry news, and find things that perfectly match their clients taste. They don’t try and fit you into something you don’t like – they find out what you want and search the world over for the perfect things. They are the professional.
1. Professional photographers have the knowledge and the skill to make you look the best you can be. I can buy a hammer for a few euro at the hardware store. Yet I spent hundreds of euro for a handyman to repair my deck. I can buy a needle and thread for a few euro at the fabric store. Yet I spent over €100 on alterations at a local tailor. It’s not about the tools; it’s about the outcome. Sure, anyone can buy a camera and take a picture. You can head down to your local discount camera shop, wait several hours and have a minimum wage clerk place you on an X and snap a few pictures. But they can’t get what a professional can get. They won’t concentrate on expressions. They won’t advise you on outfits and locations. They won’t provide 110 percent customer service. You won’t get a professional portrait.

mindundalk

Fenster wrote: »

That giant link is magically delicious. I mean. I'm on a netbook so the giant link scrolls off my screen that way->>

This unfortunately precludes my being able to select it and view your page.

Sorry about that

fixed

mindundalk

Im New to all this

Thanks for the tip

sunny2004

I still say its easier to simply put it down to how good you are..
No disrespect intended..

elven

That'd be just dandy if it were the case that the people charging the most money are actually the best. I've seen evidence to the contrary though, unfortunately

Rb

Good article. Formatting could do with a bit of a look though as the spaces between bullet points changes in the middle, then the line spacing grows also.

mindundalk

Rb wrote: »

Good article. Formatting could do with a bit of a look though as the spaces between bullet points changes in the middle, then the line spacing grows also.

I am only just getting used to my new blog so as the weeks go on I should get better at this.

Wile E. Coyote

elven wrote: »

That'd be just dandy if it were the case that the people charging the most money are actually the best. I've seen evidence to the contrary though, unfortunately

Have to agree unfortunately. I think a lot of 'professionals' (not all) charge really high prices simply because they can and because it's what others are charging. Nothing to do with how good they are. I got married in October, our photographer is based in London. She flew over 3 times to meet with us at the venue to discuss things and go through all our options and she still worked out a bit cheaper than most of the local photographers.

Paulw

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Professional photographers ..........

Wow, I never realised I did so much.

Oh wait, I'm not a professional, just a very very serious amateur, who makes a little money from photography. :rolleyes:

Fenster

Well, okay!

I finally got to read it and I have to say that you've phrased it in a bad way. Sure, we understand your dilemma, being photographers ourselves, but if a customer/mundane/muggle/smoothbrain queried your prices and your response was to simply direct them to that page, they would be incensed because the tone (to me) is condescending. Okay yeah, I can be condescending, but when it comes to the paying public I try to wear kid gloves.

Paulw

Fenster wrote: »

Okay yeah, I can be condescending

Can be????

Fenster

Sometimes.

sunny2004

elven wrote: »

That'd be just dandy if it were the case that the people charging the most money are actually the best. I've seen evidence to the contrary though, unfortunately

I am not sure if you got what I was saying, I said it was easier to put it down to how good you are. If your good then charge for it

If you are not that good then you should not be charging to much, maybe I am just to honest

I was not referring to the op ability, or to the "top" guys..
I was simply putting across how I do it.

elven

I think there's also a bit of a difference between how good people think they are, and how good they actually are. And how good the average person hiring them to shoot their wedding thinks they are. All completely subjective and prone to being swayed by many external factors.

sunny2004

elven wrote: »

I think there's also a bit of a difference between how good people think they are, and how good they actually are. And how good the average person hiring them to shoot their wedding thinks they are. All completely subjective and prone to being swayed by many external factors.

I think how good you are is in some ways dictated by how much you/your work are in demand. As for the average wedding couple, they should do their research, simple as, so they really only have themselves to blame if they pay over the top. In photography we are not all selling the same product, so its buyer beware and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. and always know what you are doing

Fajitas!

sunny2004 wrote: »

In photography we are not all selling the same product, so its buyer beware and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.. and always know what you are doing

Any more encouraging buzzphrases? :pac:

elven

sunny2004 wrote: »

I think how good you are is in some ways dictated by how much you/your work are in demand.

That kind of falls down if you use Britney Spears as a musical equivalent. I suspect her work was very much in demand - but I wouldn't take that as a sign of quality.

sunny2004

elven wrote: »

That kind of falls down if you use Britney Spears as a musical equivalent. I suspect her work was very much in demand - but I wouldn't take that as a sign of quality.

You can pick pieces out of this at infinitum, the reality is that demand normally means your good at something and demand outstripping any ability to supply means the prices go up..

There is always exceptions in life but its not realistic to discuss them. You should in fact charge in relation to your ability, expertise and market forces..

There is a tendency on the internet to argue in the obscure, its simple in this case, if you are any good at what you do then you can charge more.. especially in the arts..

sunny2004

Fajitas! wrote: »

Any more encouraging buzzphrases? :pac:

LOL

a bird in the hand is worth 2 on the bush ??

Fajitas!

There is always exceptions in life but its not realistic to discuss that you should in fact charge in relation to your ability, expertise and market forces..

Eh? Yes it is!

That's exactly what a lot of people do

Ghost Train

I'd agree with number 7. You should hire a professional photographer if you want the best chance of getting quality photos, they should know what factors are important to best capture the moment. Like any industry quality and professionalism can vary widely so anybody hiring a photographer should do their homework and look at examples of their previous work or talk to previous clients

sunny2004

Fajitas! wrote: »

Eh? Yes it is!

That's exactly what a lot of people do

error on my part, let me fix it..

I wrote that, instead of them.


sorry for th confusion...

Wile E. Coyote

sunny2004 wrote: »

There is a tendency on the internet to argue in the obscure, its simple in this case, if you are any good at what you do then you can charge more.. especially in the arts..

So how do you define how good you are? Is it purely on how much you are in demand?

sunny2004

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

So how do you define how good you are? Is it purely on how much you are in demand?

Well it depends on what you are after out of photography I suppose.

If you want your family and friends to say WOW, and we have all been there then yes you are good for that market..

If you want money, then you have to supply something else, something special and something in demand..

If you want to have your images worldwide and need to deal with magazines or publishers then your market is different...

My point with reference to the thread was simply, and I stated it earlier on in the thread...

elven

I'd be inclined to argue the obscure more when it comes to discussing issues about art itself. But when it comes to the business side of photography, i'm not being obscure. The simple thing is that yes, it *should* be the case that the better you are, the more you charge and people should feel safe in the knowledge that the more they pay, the better their product will be.

My simple point was that quality, especially in the arts, is a hugely difficult thing to quantify and so to apply a pricing scheme to. One person's idea of what is fantastic will be someone else's cringe-fest. And some people get an inflated sense of how good they are, and can't step back and view their own work objectively. I don't think that's arguing the obscure, at all.

mindundalk

elven wrote: »

I'd be inclined to argue the obscure more when it comes to discussing issues about art itself. But when it comes to the business side of photography, i'm not being obscure. The simple thing is that yes, it *should* be the case that the better you are, the more you charge and people should feel safe in the knowledge that the more they pay, the better their product will be.

My simple point was that quality, especially in the arts, is a hugely difficult thing to quantify and so to apply a pricing scheme to. One person's idea of what is fantastic will be someone else's cringe-fest. And some people get an inflated sense of how good they are, and can't step back and view their own work objectively. I don't think that's arguing the obscure, at all.

Thats very well said...

sunny2004

elven wrote: »

I'd be inclined to argue the obscure more when it comes to discussing issues about art itself. But when it comes to the business side of photography, I'm not being obscure. The simple thing is that yes, it *should* be the case that the better you are, the more you charge and people should feel safe in the knowledge that the more they pay, the better their product will be.

My simple point was that quality, especially in the arts, is a hugely difficult thing to quantify and so to apply a pricing scheme to. One person's idea of what is fantastic will be someone else's cringe-fest. And some people get an inflated sense of how good they are, and can't step back and view their own work objectively. I don't think that's arguing the obscure, at all.

The thread is about "why photographers charge what they do"

I don't see any problems in quantifying say wedding photography or portraiture in regards to "how much to charge" its very simple really..
and if you get it wrong you wont get any booking

Do you mind me asking if you are in the business ?

mindundalk

sunny2004 wrote: »

I still say its easier to simply put it down to how good you are..
No disrespect intended..

None Taken

elven

I've done my share of weddings, but I'm not a business person.

I've seen lots of people with dire work charging a fortune, and ordinary people, not knowing any better, are paying for it. I've seen excellent photographers charge very little, but because they don't market themselves, they get little business. That's the basis of my conclusion.

Teferi

Those 10 points just seemed to be little more than a whinge to me. Posting them here is probably preaching to the converted. The 10 points are also easily changed to fit into a lot of business'. People are going to haggle in most places these days especially for what is percieved as art or non essential etc. and you're just going to have to deal with it.

Freddie59

Are you long at the photography game? As an amateur enthusiast I find your post puzzling, to say the least. It smacks to me that you yourself feel that you're overcharging in some area and want someone to convince you that you're not.

Teferi

Is that aimed at me?

tororosso

"9. Professional photographers have to buy professional equipment. Nope, they don’t just pick up a point-and-shoot from Harvey Normans and declare themselves a professional. They spend thousands upon thousands of euro getting multiple camera bodies, the finest lenses, flash equipment for every situation, tripods, light stands, backdrops, props, carrying and storage cases. And then when you think you have it all – you need to get backups for everything to make sure you never miss an image."
-- I think that the rich equipment might be the only difference between some Professional photographers and some enthusiastic/serious amateurs these days!
The rest of its seems to make some sense but some of it seems to be stating the obvious or making more out of something than what many take for granted e.g: "Professional photographers don’t just snap a picture, they create a photograph. They understand positioning. They understand lighting. They understand placement. You’re not just paying for the ability to place a finger on the trigger and snap a picture."

dinneenp

they dedicate themselves to becoming the best they can be, and share that knowledge with their clientele.
The best they can, really? Or to such a level that they're 'very good' at what they do (which is what most professionals are)?


9. They spend thousands upon thousands of euro getting multiple camera bodies, the finest lenses, flash equipment for every situation, tripods, light stands, backdrops, props, carrying and storage cases.
Does the consumer care about this? A shop keeper has to buy a shop, a gym a premises and equiptment etc. Of course a professional has to have the relevant equiptment.


8. Professional photographers continue their education, and learn as much as they can about the business. They join groups like the IrishProfessional Photographers Association . They attend seminars and training by some of the best names in the business. They concentrate on becoming the best they can be.
This is expected in and field that's always deveoping....although a lot of photographers don't upskill I'd imagine- they are good at what they do, used to it and it's routine (espically studio portraits etc.)



7. Professional photographers don’t just snap a picture, they create a photograph. They understand positioning. They understand lighting. They understand placement. You’re not just paying for the ability to place a finger on the trigger and snap a picture. You’re paying for the years of experience it took to create the perfect image.
Again this is part of their job. If it's a studio photo then it's very routine and in a way they are just pressing a button (and getting light set up etc.) or doing a,b,c.

5. Professional photographers have to be more than photographers. They have to be CEOs and marketers, and bankers, and salespeople, and production workers, and janitors, and buyers, and negotiators, and networkers, and drivers, and organizers.
Anyone who is a sole trader/has their own company is in the same boat.


4. Professional photographers will do it all. Want to get married at the top of a 14,000 foot high mountain, where the only way up is a 30 minute ski-lift ride?
Is this one a joke? Of cousre he/she has to be there!!!

I'm not a pro photographer but if someone asked me why does a photographer cost so much I'd say-
profit margin
expenses (rent, equiptment etc)
wages for someone to 'man' the studio if photographer is out on a shoot
time (travelling to shoot, meeting before, after with client)

But providing a list as you did I think is crazy, listing every single thing that goes into your job.
I've heard of wedding photographers doubling their costs over the course of two years (during the 'boom'),are you telling me that this is expense/cost related?

Eirebear

elven wrote: »

That kind of falls down if you use Britney Spears as a musical equivalent. I suspect her work was very much in demand - but I wouldn't take that as a sign of quality.

TBH if you make the general public think your good enough, the general public will pay for it.

Thats really all it comes down to, as unfortunate as it may be.

Slidinginfinity

Eirebear wrote: »

TBH if you make the general public think your good enough, the general public will pay for it.

Thats really all it comes down to, as unfortunate as it may be.

Perception is everything.
Basic rule of commerce: A thing is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

sunny2004

elven wrote: »

I've done my share of weddings, but I'm not a business person.

I've seen lots of people with dire work charging a fortune, and ordinary people, not knowing any better, are paying for it. I've seen excellent photographers charge very little, but because they don't market themselves, they get little business. That's the basis of my conclusion.

Thank you for clearing that up for me.

As for the other points, I actually dont know any professional photographer with "dire" work who is actually charging a "fortune" and getting it.. not one..

but again what I stated with reference to the OP still stands..

Buzz Lightyear

I find it quite unfair when the ordinary Joe or Josephine accuses a business person of creaming it when they are charging about 800-1000 a day. This to the ordinary person seems excessive, mean and unscrupulous. However they have no idea of the expenses involved in running a business. I haven't worked for myself in over six years so my figures might be a little out in some places, however the table below is an example of how the business expenses add up to justify this cost.

Wages________________________________70,000
Employee wages________________________40,000
Employers tax on employee________________2,200
Car repayment _________________________ 4,800
Diesel _________________________________5,200
Car insurance __________________________ 1,200
Emplolyers & Professional
Liability Insurance ______________________ 1,500
Equipment Insurance ____________________ 1,200
Phone_________________________________ 3,600
Light / Heat ___________________________ 3,600
Advertising_____________________________ 2,000
Equipment Investment __________________ 10,000
Accountant_____________________________2,500
Profit ________________________________ 15,000
Costs so far __________________________162,800
Weekly rate based on 46 weeks working_____ 3,539
Daily Rate for 4 day week___________________885

Now I know some of you may baulk at the thoughts at a four day week, however time must be spent on sales, paperwork, meeting clients, etc. The profit of 15k is nice if you work all 46 weeks - don't forget that nobody pays you for taking holidays, this must be taken into account. Also the 46 week year is hoping that you are working all 46 weeks.

So next time your professional (in any trade or profession) charges you 800 euro a day, please remember the above, and be kind

Dundhoone

11. Professional photographers want to drive a 7 series ?

I've been looking at wedding photographers over the last two years , as taking the plunge in a few weeks. All of the studios I looked at increased there prices 2008-09 and again 09-10. I respect the time and skill it takes to produce a photograph - but 2k for 30 photos in an semi fancy album is hard to justify.


Nothing justifies a price increase year on year in a recession in this field.

Freddie59

Teferi wrote: »

Is that aimed at me?

No. At the OP.:)

Mycroft H

"9. Professional photographers don’t just snap a picture, they create a photograph. They understand positioning. They understand lighting. They understand placement. You’re not just paying for the ability to place a finger on the trigger and snap a picture."

I find that very condescending statement. The "pfft there amatuers, they cant take good photos. I'm getting paid to take photos, of course i'm better" attitude by many professional photographers really pisses me off sometimes. :mad:

We understand light.
We understand positioning.

Just because were not taking photographs for payment does not automatically mean our work is inferior.

Some of the best work I see in on boards.ie or photography magazines or flickr ect is by non professionals

Eirebear

Dundhoone wrote: »

11. Professional photographers want to drive a 7 series ?

I've been looking at wedding photographers over the last two years , as taking the plunge in a few weeks. All of the studios I looked at increased there prices 2008-09 and again 09-10. I respect the time and skill it takes to produce a photograph - but 2k for 30 photos in an semi fancy album is hard to justify.


Nothing justifies a price increase year on year in a recession in this field.

See your "semi fancy album"? It probably cost about 300 quid.
See the prints that went in it? Assuming the photographer uses a good lab, maybe another 100.

Thats 400 right off.

Lets take it over the course of a year.

Say a photographer manages 152 weddings a year

Thats 104 grand turnover.

take away (400 x 52 = 28,000) you left with 76,000

Insurance costs, maybe another lets call it 1200

So your left with 74800 before taxes.

(Im unsure of Irish tax brackets but im guessing around 25%?)
So were down to 57,000.

Thats before we take in unquantifiable expenses such as travel, and general sundries such as wear and tear on equipment.

Chances are that guys earning around 50k a year.

Is he paying an assistant for 52 weddings? Thats maybe another 6 grand.

Hes still earning a good wage. But its not the massive money people seem to think hes earning.

Eirebear

landyman wrote: »

I find that very condescending statement. The "pfft there amatuers, they cant take good photos. I'm getting paid to take photos, of course i'm better" attitude by many professional photographers really pisses me off sometimes. :mad:

We understand light.
We understand positioning.

Just because were not taking photographs for payment does not automatically mean our work is inferior.

Some of the best work I see in on boards.ie or photography magazines or flickr ect is by non professionals

11. Proffesional photographers have to put up with sneering from amateurs with a chip on their shoulder!

(I jest...i jest!)

bernard0368

mindundalk wrote: »

As a professional photographer for 6 years now sometimes you get haggled especially now that were in recession

Whats wrong with a good haggle. I highly recommend it recession or not. I can never understand why someone will just accept the first price they are given there is always a saving to be had.

mindundalk

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

I find it quite unfair when the ordinary Joe or Josephine accuses a business person of creaming it when they are charging about 800-1000 a day. This to the ordinary person seems excessive, mean and unscrupulous. However they have no idea of the expenses involved in running a business. I haven't worked for myself in over six years so my figures might be a little out in some places, however the table below is an example of how the business expenses add up to justify this cost.

Wages________________________________70,000
Employee wages________________________40,000
Employers tax on employee________________2,200
Car repayment _________________________ 4,800
Diesel _________________________________5,200
Car insurance __________________________ 1,200
Emplolyers & Professional
Liability Insurance ______________________ 1,500
Equipment Insurance ____________________ 1,200
Phone_________________________________ 3,600
Light / Heat ___________________________ 3,600
Advertising_____________________________ 2,000
Equipment Investment __________________ 10,000
Accountant_____________________________2,500
Profit ________________________________ 15,000
Costs so far __________________________162,800
Weekly rate based on 46 weeks working_____ 3,539
Daily Rate for 4 day week___________________885

Now I know some of you may baulk at the thoughts at a four day week, however time must be spent on sales, paperwork, meeting clients, etc. The profit of 15k is nice if you work all 46 weeks - don't forget that nobody pays you for taking holidays, this must be taken into account. Also the 46 week year is hoping that you are working all 46 weeks.

So next time your professional (in any trade or profession) charges you 800 euro a day, please remember the above, and be kind

All of the above is very accurate but don't forget Rent & Rates

mindundalk

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/872387/couple-sues-over-disastrous-wedding-photos