10 Reasons Why Professional Photographers Charge What They Do!

mindundalk

Carrigman wrote: »

As regards professional photographers knowing about posing, placement etc...most do, but a lot don't.

When I browse wedding albums produced by some professionals I am amazed at the number of individual and group shots where the subjects have their hands in the penalty shoot position or have trees or other objects growing out of their heads. The punters probably don't notice so the photographers don't seem to care.

Like i said earlier professional simply means your getting paid for what your doing it is up to the customer to decide wether or not to book the individual be them good or bad.

I also have seen what you are talking about and sometimes even worse.. but the only thing i can really add is the customer really needs to do there research before parting with there hard earned cash.

CabanSail

I guess I could use the title "Professional Sports Photographer" as shooting runners doing Marathons is my only paid gig. While that title is technically accurate, it would also be misleading. There is a difference between what is technically correct & what the general community perceives.

Another example is the way we use the word "decimate" which is taken to mean that something was almost completely destroyed. In fact the real meaning of the word comes from a punishment of a Legion for mutiny. One in ten of their number were selected at random to be executed, hence the name.

So while the title Professional really should only mean you are charging for your services, it is commonly taken to mean that that you are highly trained in your field and carry out the job in an ethical and competent manner.

mindundalk

CabanSail wrote: »

I guess I could use the title "Professional Sports Photographer" as shooting runners doing Marathons is my only paid gig. While that title is technically accurate, it would also be misleading. There is a difference between what is technically correct & what the general community perceives.

Another example is the way we use the word "decimate" which is taken to mean that something was almost completely destroyed. In fact the real meaning of the word comes from a punishment of a Legion for mutiny. One in ten of their number were selected at random to be executed, hence the name.

So while the title Professional really should only mean you are charging for your services, it is commonly taken to mean that that you are highly trained in your field and carry out the job in an ethical and competent manner.

Exactly

Stephentlig

correct, as dictionary.com points out, the meaning of professional harbours the interpretation of one being an expert at his/her job.

but in the ops case, he is an expert in his field of photography, whatever that field within photography may be. A person who takes athletic sport shots all his life may find it difficult to produce a photo of expert quality such as the ops.

does that sound convoluted or am I somewhat making sense?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/professional

jiggawigga

Turn the map around. In my opinion professionalism only matters as a photographer if your customers perceive you as professional. This is not achieved by simply charging for your work. It comes from spending time and money learning the field and mastering the skills. Acquiring the equipment and knowledge to overcome any obstacle and produce consistently high quality work all while carrying yourself in a competent, 'professional' manner.

At the end of the day Roy

If one girl says to another girl:

"oh yeah go for Lifestyle Photography, they did our wedding and the photos were great, very professional".

"I was on her website, she's very professional".

"His photographs were in BLAH magazine, really professional lets get him to do the photography".

That's what you want isn't it? Well you can't get to that point without walking the walk.

SuzanneThompson

I like this a lot. Thanks! It reminded me of a lot of the things that I forgot that I do!

Stephentlig

SuzanneThompson wrote: »

I like this a lot. Thanks! It reminded me of a lot of the things that I forgot that I do!

what is it you do Suzanne?

SuzanneThompson

I have a studio in Dublin which I'm working very hard in at the moment.

Stephentlig

SuzanneThompson wrote: »

I have a studio in Dublin which I'm working very hard in at the moment.

oh so your in the same line of expert work as the op? got a website? any chance we can take a peek?

Glad to hear this thread was of help to you.

Stephen.

SuzanneThompson

Of course - I've just entered some profile info. I'm new to this!

Stephentlig

just had a look at your facebook page, very nice. just to confirm your FB the following is the correct link right?

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Circus-Photography/181324230811?ref=mf#/pages/Circus-Photography/181324230811

Thanks again
Stephen

SuzanneThompson

That's it indeed. It links to the site there. I've just started the fb thing in December. Trying to do a bit more networking which is why I'm also here!

Stephentlig

SuzanneThompson wrote: »

That's it indeed. It links to the site there. I've just started the fb thing in December. Trying to do a bit more networking which is why I'm also here!

oh, I'll have to look again. would you retain any critiscism relating to the ops post and blog post? what did you find positive about his response to the world on why he charges what he does? what is it you agree and disagree with concerning his 10 reasons?

just curious, considering you both have a studio and are in the same line of work.

Thank you
Stephen

mindundalk

SuzanneThompson wrote: »

I like this a lot. Thanks! It reminded me of a lot of the things that I forgot that I do!

Your work looks great well done.
m

higgins2010

jiggawigga wrote: »

Turn the map around. In my opinion professionalism only matters as a photographer if your customers perceive you as professional. This is not achieved by simply charging for your work. It comes from spending time and money learning the field and mastering the skills. Acquiring the equipment and knowledge to overcome any obstacle and produce consistently high quality work all while carrying yourself in a competent, 'professional' manner.

At the end of the day Roy

If one girl says to another girl:

"oh yeah go for Lifestyle Photography, they did our wedding and the photos were great, very professional".

"I was on her website, she's very professional".

"His photographs were in BLAH magazine, really professional lets get him to do the photography".

That's what you want isn't it? Well you can't get to that point without walking the walk.

Thats just nasty!

higgins2010

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

[font=Arial Black, sans-serif][font=Verdana, sans-serif]The OP does kind of give the impression that we're supposed to say “ah, poor you, people trying to haggle you down, not fair”, but if one looks around, we live in a very, very competitive world and consumers know this only too well. Up until now, most people have been drawn into wanting to look richer, cooler, or more successful than they really are, or can afford to be, which (due to the easy access to credit) has meant spending huge sums of money on things and not thinking twice about the price. The bigger, the better. However, that line of thinking has been reigned in somewhat of late.[/font]


[font=Verdana, sans-serif]So, if pro photographers feel they are being haggled down to unjustly prices then simply turn down the work or get another kind of job to support yourself. It sounds harsh yeah, but the value of your services exists in the heads of other people – you can't change that, ever. And with the sheer volume of photographers about these days, the public's perception of what constitutes “professional” has been altered.[/font]
[/font]

I think this post was just offering a helping hand for photographers whom might just be having a bad day in the business and lets face it there are plenty of those at the moment for everybody and if anyone should say different they would be lying in my opinion...

mindundalk

higgins2010 wrote: »

I think this post was just offering a helping hand for photographers whom might just be having a bad day in the business and lets face it there are plenty of those at the moment for everybody and if anyone should say different they would be lying in my opinion...

Thank you for your kind words

Waking-Dreams

Let me recommend a gem of a book then... 'Herd' by Mark Earls. Photographers (whose aim it is to make money from their craft, like a business intends) would be doing themselves a huge disservice by not reading up on the habits and behaviours of their customers: the 'herd'.

I think we can all agree that part of being a great "professional" photographer is not just the skills and knowledge you possess at taking pictures, but in understanding where you fit into the world of today, a world where there's an oversupply of everything.

Stephentlig

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Let me recommend a gem of a book then... 'Herd' by Mark Earls. Photographers (whose aim it is to make money from their craft, like a business intends) would be doing themselves a huge disservice by not reading up on the habits and behaviours of their customers: the 'herd'.

I think we can all agree that part of being a great "professional" photographer is not just the skills and knowledge you possess at taking pictures, but in understanding where you fit into the world of today, a world where there's an oversupply of everything.

well in my opinion, ( and this is coming from a customer ) the herd can be summed up in one sentence contrary to a whole book, that sentence being ''you can never please them''.:pac:

Waking-Dreams

the herd can be summed up in one sentence contrary to a whole book

Er, based on what? Your opinion as an individual customer? Humans are a social species, we do what we do because others do it, and without even realising it. In isolation we act much differently. Which urinal to use, where to sit on a bus or in the cinema - all done much differently when we suddenly take into account where other people have chosen to sit, etc as opposed to when we are on our own.

Pretty much most of what we do has a social context. This involves gossip, telling stories, small talk, AND what consumers tell each other. Your sentence would have made more sense had you said, "We will never have control of the herd. And imposing our needs on them won't work, because you can't control the herd and what it thinks."

Contrary to popular belief, we're not that influenced by outside forces (marketing propaganda and the like) but what others around us are doing and saying.

And all it takes, is say, a handful of pro photographers to do some weddings for very competetive prices (with results that the customers were delighted with) and it spreads. People tell others they had their wedding done for X amount, which then leads people to believe they were/are being ripped off (whether or not it's actually true).

It's all well and good saying, there's no pleasing people, but do you see WHY there's no pleasing people sometimes? We become who we are with and through others.

Waking-Dreams

I just want to finish up on this topic:


Don't despair either, for there will always be people who'll gladly pay over the average amount of money because they think it will be worth it. Their reasoning: expensive = better service/product. Inexpensive = bad.

“Well, my car costs 4K more than that other model so it MUST be of better value, I mean, why would there be a difference in price if it wasn't the case?”

And as usual, people look for the evidence that supports their existing belief and disregard anything to the contrary – this also involves believing what the manufacture tells them (as a people, we tend to listen to so called “experts” by default). Most people are after all, brought up to believe, “you get what your pay for”, and we often make quick judgemental heuristics, allowing for simplified thinking (ours is a complex world) in most situations which works well most of the time but leaves us open to occasional costly mistakes. I think everyone has some experience of this at one time or another.

The photography industry will tolerate high prices so long as there are enough pros doing it – that the “norm” or “average” quote for a service is around the same wherever people happen to enquire. But the second a substantial amount of professional services becomes available for less than that, is the second the consumer will take heed, moreso if enough of their peers are also at it, encouraging it, word of mouth and all that.

The point I'm making is that photography isn't something entirely quantifiable and measurable in quality for everyone. You can state your reasons why your services are invaluable, that you have personal costs to budget for and have to support yourself (hence the price), but it's irrelevant info from the consumer's point of view. Photography typically gets lumped in with art, where work goes on sale for huge prices at high mark-up, much to the dismay and cynicsm of certain people.

The plight of a photographer's business is of no concern to the consumer. Much like when they also tune out upon hearing bands and artists publically complaining that the music industry (that supports their lifestyle) is dying because people aren't buying their wares anymore. Again, an oversupply of music in general plays a big role in that outcome, not just the “evil” downloaders.

But anyway, whenever anybody wants to make an income, it becomes business, and is subject to the whims and unpredictable nature of the commercial industry as a whole. This means dealing with competition, having others “steal” your potential customers and other pitfalls outside of your control.

I'm sure there are many seasoned pro photgraphers who quietly begrudge the fact that alot of people can now afford DSLRs and set-up their own websites, but it's just the way of the world. Where they once were able to sell framed pictures, people are now taking their own instead. We're oversaturated in everything. The odds of supporting yourself full time as an original artist/musician/photographer have never been worse I'd imagine. And to prosper means having the willingness to do the hard yards and think it through.

higgins2010

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

I just want to finish up on this topic:


Don't despair either, for there will always be people who'll gladly pay over the average amount of money because they think it will be worth it. Their reasoning: expensive = better service/product. Inexpensive = bad.

“Well, my car costs 4K more than that other model so it MUST be of better value, I mean, why would there be a difference in price if it wasn't the case?”

And as usual, people look for the evidence that supports their existing belief and disregard anything to the contrary – this also involves believing what the manufacture tells them (as a people, we tend to listen to so called “experts” by default). Most people are after all, brought up to believe, “you get what your pay for”, and we often make quick judgemental heuristics, allowing for simplified thinking (ours is a complex world) in most situations which works well most of the time but leaves us open to occasional costly mistakes. I think everyone has some experience of this at one time or another.

The photography industry will tolerate high prices so long as there are enough pros doing it – that the “norm” or “average” quote for a service is around the same wherever people happen to enquire. But the second a substantial amount of professional services becomes available for less than that, is the second the consumer will take heed, moreso if enough of their peers are also at it, encouraging it, word of mouth and all that.

The point I'm making is that photography isn't something entirely quantifiable and measurable in quality for everyone. You can state your reasons why your services are invaluable, that you have personal costs to budget for and have to support yourself (hence the price), but it's irrelevant info from the consumer's point of view. Photography typically gets lumped in with art, where work goes on sale for huge prices at high mark-up, much to the dismay and cynicsm of certain people.

The plight of a photographer's business is of no concern to the consumer. Much like when they also tune out upon hearing bands and artists publically complaining that the music industry (that supports their lifestyle) is dying because people aren't buying their wares anymore. Again, an oversupply of music in general plays a big role in that outcome, not just the “evil” downloaders.

But anyway, whenever anybody wants to make an income, it becomes business, and is subject to the whims and unpredictable nature of the commercial industry as a whole. This means dealing with competition, having others “steal” your potential customers and other pitfalls outside of your control.

I'm sure there are many seasoned pro photgraphers who quietly begrudge the fact that alot of people can now afford DSLRs and set-up their own websites, but it's just the way of the world. Where they once were able to sell framed pictures, people are now taking their own instead. We're oversaturated in everything. The odds of supporting yourself full time as an original artist/musician/photographer have never been worse I'd imagine. And to prosper means having the willingness to do the hard yards and think it through.

Very well written.

mindundalk

Here is an important point for portrait and wedding photographers to realize: Ninety-five percent of the time, the portrait and wedding photography purchasing decision is made by a woman. If you're a portrait or wedding photographer and you're not deliberately designing your marketing, product lines, sales techniques, packaging, and every other aspect of the "purchasing experience" (including your personal appearance) specifically for a female client, you're probably losing sales.

Borderfox

Too true

democrates

Would camping it up help?

mindundalk

why not

K_user

mindundalk wrote: »

Here is an important point for portrait and wedding photographers to realize: Ninety-five percent of the time, the portrait and wedding photography purchasing decision is made by a woman. If you're a portrait or wedding photographer and you're not deliberately designing your marketing, product lines, sales techniques, packaging, and every other aspect of the "purchasing experience" (including your personal appearance) specifically for a female client, you're probably losing sales.

Never a truer word has been said.

The other side of that coin is that if the woman isn't happy with the results they'll let everyone know. Where as men tend to look at the album as something nice to have, women tend to have much higher expectations. And if it falls short then word gets spread...for years to come.

My wife, 8 years later, is still telling people that the photographer didn't get a right photograph of her coming down the aisle!

higgins2010

Im sure his ideas expressed in this piece go to the heart of the skills and qualities that a professional exhibits in creating a finished photograph for their clients. Networking, education, and surrounding himself with mentors and role models inspire him to keep his skills up and standards high, and ensure his doors will still be open when his clients call him to photograph their most treasured occasions.

dinneenp

Hi,
there have been a lot of replies not agreeing with the 10 points (including me). Maybe one good way to look at this thread is for the OP to look at all the replies. These replies are what people think and their replies to your 10 points are replies/thoughts that customers will have too.

K_user

I think the customers will have the same thoughts and more!

Most people on this site are familiar with the workings of camera's and the effort it takes to get a good shot. Therefore we are more aware of the value of a true professional.

However most "normal" people just see a camera and think that all the work is done once the button is clicked.

higgins2010

K_user wrote: »

I think the customers will have the same thoughts and more!

Most people on this site are familiar with the workings of camera's and the effort it takes to get a good shot. Therefore we are more aware of the value of a true professional.

However most "normal" people just see a camera and think that all the work is done once the button is clicked.

True

mindundalk

dinneenp wrote: »

Hi,
there have been a lot of replies not agreeing with the 10 points (including me). Maybe one good way to look at this thread is for the OP to look at all the replies. These replies are what people think and their replies to your 10 points are replies/thoughts that customers will have too.

a personal view, attitude, or appraisal. (opinion everyones entitled)

higgins2010

K_user wrote: »

I think the customers will have the same thoughts and more!


However most "normal" people just see a camera and think that all the work is done once the button is clicked.

its only when you compare a professional taken photo to one that is taken by a non- professional with a point and shoot camera, you can see the difference and know why a professional charges what they do.

mindundalk

Carrigman wrote: »

As regards professional photographers knowing about posing, placement etc...most do, but a lot don't.

When I browse wedding albums produced by some professionals I am amazed at the number of individual and group shots where the subjects have their hands in the penalty shoot position or have trees or other objects growing out of their heads. The punters probably don't notice so the photographers don't seem to care.

Once bitten twice shy!

eas

When I browse wedding albums produced by some professionals I am amazed at the number of individual and group shots where the subjects have their hands in the penalty shoot position or have trees or other objects growing out of their heads. The punters probably don't notice so the photographers don't seem to care.

This may be hard sell, but sometimes the professional thing to do doesn't seem very professional at all.

My point is, sometimes at that stage of the day the wedding party have had well enough of the photographer and getting them to do anything but basic posing is counter productive and only alienates them more.

No excuse for trees or other objects growing out of peoples heads though.

mindundalk

eas wrote: »

This may be hard sell, but sometimes the professional thing to do doesn't seem very professional at all.

My point is, sometimes at that stage of the day the wedding party have had well enough of the photographer and getting them to do anything but basic posing is counter productive and only alienates them more.

No excuse for trees or other objects growing out of peoples heads though.

I agree but its up to the photographer to reassure the couple that all there ideas will be worth the effort in the end, remember you only get one chance and although bride and groom may seem to be tired at the end they wont be by the time you show them the end result.

K_user

higgins2010 wrote: »

its only when you compare a professional taken photo to one that is taken by a non- professional with a point and shoot camera, you can see the difference and know why a professional charges what they do.

How many people here have heard the line "You have a good camera, you take the photograph"?

The assumption by the average joe is that the bigger and fancier the camera the better the photograph. Even my wife, after many years watching me make a pratt out of myself, still doesn't understand that post-processing can be just as important as getting into the right position. And that just little tweaks can make all the difference.

My mother in-law is convinced that my DSLR will beat her P&S every-time. But it won't, because for family snap shots P&S's deliver out of the box results without the fuss. Thats what they are designed to do.

My point being that to the general public a proper looking camera should give proper photographs. That the guy behind is just the facilitator. They really, truly, give little thought to anything that happens after that button is pressed. Why would they? They have no experience in it. For a "normal" person you press, you print, you go home happy.

mindundalk

K_user wrote: »

How many people here have heard the line "You have a good camera, you take the photograph"?

The assumption by the average joe is that the bigger and fancier the camera the better the photograph. Even my wife, after many years watching me make a pratt out of myself, still doesn't understand that post-processing can be just as important as getting into the right position. And that just little tweaks can make all the difference.

My mother in-law is convinced that my DSLR will beat her P&S every-time. But it won't, because for family snap shots P&S's deliver out of the box results without the fuss. Thats what they are designed to do.

My point being that to the general public a proper looking camera should give proper photographs. That the guy behind is just the facilitator. They really, truly, give little thought to anything that happens after that button is pressed. Why would they? They have no experience in it. For a "normal" person you press, you print, you go home happy.

Post-processing is just as important as composition etc but the key is to know when to STOP! for me its the biggest sin of of all and there should be no forgiveness for photographers whom try to cover up an all round bad shot by OVER-PROCESSING.

K_user

mindundalk wrote: »

Post-processing is just as important as composition etc but the key is to know when to STOP! for me its the biggest sin of of all and there should be no forgiveness for photographers whom try to cover up an all round bad shot by OVER-PROCESSING.

Totally agree.

But for most PP is just some level correction, maybe a small crop, a bit of dodging and burning...exactly what used to be done in film processing, just a tad faster!

mindundalk

K_user wrote: »

Totally agree.

But for most PP is just some level correction, maybe a small crop, a bit of dodging and burning...exactly what used to be done in film processing, just a tad faster!

Some guys do a lot more than just dodging and burning more like ducking and diving

lol

K_user

mindundalk wrote: »

Some guys do a lot more than just dodging and burning more like ducking and diving

lol

higgins2010

Buzz Lightyear wrote: »

I find it quite unfair when the ordinary Joe or Josephine accuses a business person of creaming it when they are charging about 800-1000 a day. This to the ordinary person seems excessive, mean and unscrupulous. However they have no idea of the expenses involved in running a business. I haven't worked for myself in over six years so my figures might be a little out in some places, however the table below is an example of how the business expenses add up to justify this cost.

Wages________________________________70,000
Employee wages________________________40,000
Employers tax on employee________________2,200
Car repayment _________________________ 4,800
Diesel _________________________________5,200
Car insurance __________________________ 1,200
Emplolyers & Professional
Liability Insurance ______________________ 1,500
Equipment Insurance ____________________ 1,200
Phone_________________________________ 3,600
Light / Heat ___________________________ 3,600
Advertising_____________________________ 2,000
Equipment Investment __________________ 10,000
Accountant_____________________________2,500
Profit ________________________________ 15,000
Costs so far __________________________162,800
Weekly rate based on 46 weeks working_____ 3,539
Daily Rate for 4 day week___________________885

Now I know some of you may baulk at the thoughts at a four day week, however time must be spent on sales, paperwork, meeting clients, etc. The profit of 15k is nice if you work all 46 weeks - don't forget that nobody pays you for taking holidays, this must be taken into account. Also the 46 week year is hoping that you are working all 46 weeks.

So next time your professional (in any trade or profession) charges you 800 euro a day, please remember the above, and be kind

thats an interesting topic i would love to know what VAT the non professionals are paying if any?

eas

mindundalk wrote: »

I agree but its up to the photographer to reassure the couple that all there ideas will be worth the effort in the end, remember you only get one chance and although bride and groom may seem to be tired at the end they wont be by the time you show them the end result.

Agree 100%, but I'm referring to the bridesmaids & groomsmen, who often have other things on their mind than striking elaborate poses. :eek:

Borderfox

K_user wrote: »

How many people here have heard the line "You have a good camera, you take the photograph"?

The assumption by the average joe is that the bigger and fancier the camera the better the photograph. Even my wife, after many years watching me make a pratt out of myself, still doesn't understand that post-processing can be just as important as getting into the right position. And that just little tweaks can make all the difference.

My mother in-law is convinced that my DSLR will beat her P&S every-time. But it won't, because for family snap shots P&S's deliver out of the box results without the fuss. Thats what they are designed to do.

My point being that to the general public a proper looking camera should give proper photographs. That the guy behind is just the facilitator. They really, truly, give little thought to anything that happens after that button is pressed. Why would they? They have no experience in it. For a "normal" person you press, you print, you go home happy.

For most of my work I wouldnt agree, I took pictures of a motivational last week and had a slideshow up 10 minutes after he finished and a disk in his hand 20 minutes after that. Setting up a DSLR to output finished work is not to difficult. At shows I shoot everything that comes out of the camera goes for sale with no PP.

I can beat the P&S everytime!!

K_user

Fair play - thats the proper way to do it!

higgins2010

i would like to think that when i pay someone to take photographs, that they take care and time and do every things that is needed to make sure i look my best and not hand me a disk with no editing or correction done. To me that not being very professional.

Borderfox

higgins2010 wrote: »

i would like to think that when i pay someone to take photographs, that they take care and time and do every things that is needed to make sure i look my best and not hand me a disk with no editing or correction done. To me that not being very professional.

Each job and client has their own requirements for events and some clients thats what they want, I have enough confidence and skill to produce excellent work straight out of the camera. To me thats what being a pro is..

tiffmister

Borderfox wrote: »

Each job and client has their own requirements for events and some clients thats what they want, I have enough confidence and skill to produce excellent work straight out of the camera. To me thats what being a pro is..

Confidence is a good thing

Stephentlig

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Er, based on what? Your opinion as an individual customer? Humans are a social species, we do what we do because others do it, and without even realising it. In isolation we act much differently. Which urinal to use, where to sit on a bus or in the cinema - all done much differently when we suddenly take into account where other people have chosen to sit, etc as opposed to when we are on our own.

Pretty much most of what we do has a social context. This involves gossip, telling stories, small talk, AND what consumers tell each other. Your sentence would have made more sense had you said, "We will never have control of the herd. And imposing our needs on them won't work, because you can't control the herd and what it thinks."

Contrary to popular belief, we're not that influenced by outside forces (marketing propaganda and the like) but what others around us are doing and saying.

And all it takes, is say, a handful of pro photographers to do some weddings for very competetive prices (with results that the customers were delighted with) and it spreads. People tell others they had their wedding done for X amount, which then leads people to believe they were/are being ripped off (whether or not it's actually true).

It's all well and good saying, there's no pleasing people, but do you see WHY there's no pleasing people sometimes? We become who we are with and through others.

So if you were in a room full of heroin addicts and they were all shooting up, would you shoot up too? all women wear high-heels, do I do it just because they do? just trying to show you how your sentence does'nt make sense.

however I cannot detract from the fact that your statement does have some element of truth in it to a certain effect, we all remember being teenagers and wanting the same things as our mates did and succumbing to peer pressure, but not all minds are the same, and you cant expect your statement to be taped to every person in the world. we'll never control the herd is the same as the herd will never be pleased IMO.

K_user

Stephentlig wrote: »

So if you were in a room full of heroin addicts and they were all shooting up, would you shoot up too? all women wear high-heels, do I do it just because they do? just trying to show you how your sentence does'nt make sense.

however I cannot detract from the fact that your statement does have some element of truth in it to a certain effect, we all remember being teenagers and wanting the same things as our mates did and succumbing to peer pressure, but not all minds are the same, and you cant expect your statement to be taped to every person in the world. we'll never control the herd is the same as the herd will never be pleased IMO.

I have to disagree.

There are vast differences between heroin addicts and pricing a photographer. And to be fair if you were truly immersed in the world of petty crime and drugs...then yes you'd be shooting up too.

People do tend to shop around and if everyone is giving approximately the same quote then its the accepted price.

I built my house a couple of years ago. The way you got things done was you'd ask for a few different quotes. If one was vastly different - higher or lower - chances are you'd ignore it. The average price was usually the one to go with. The rest came down to personalities.

People are social, we go with our gut, we try to out do one another and we accept "norms"