Where have all the beards gone!

Rujib1

What's happening on the PS industrial relations front? Weren't we promised fire and brimstone by the beards, in response to the pay cuts! I honestly don't think I have seen Jim Larkin ... sorry I mean Jack O Connor once in the media since before christmass!

R1

ParkRunner

http://www.pseu.ie/circulars/bs00310.doc

This should give you a reasonable idea about what is ahead. The weather even played havoc with industrial protest preparation but it looks like it should be kicking off from next week

dvpower

Rujib1 wrote: »

What's happening on the PS industrial relations front? Weren't we promised fire and brimstone by the beards, in response to the pay cuts! I honestly don't think I have seen Jim Larkin ... sorry I mean Jack O Connor once in the media since before christmass!

R1

They're in their bunkers .... plotting.


Remember, its the Public Sector unions. They'll take a good while to come up with a plan. It'll get sent for approval. A few more months will pass. Eventually there'll be a half assed response that doesn't do any good at all.

brianthebard

dvpower wrote: »

They're in their bunkers .... plotting.


Remember, its the Public Sector unions.

Actually, you're wrong. SIPTU for one represent both public and private sector workers, and have afaik more members in the private sector than public. But that's ok, we wouldn't want facts to get in the way on this union bashing forum.

dvpower

OP wrote:

What's happening on the PS industrial relations front?

Me wrote:

Remember, its the Public Sector unions

brianthebeard wrote: »

Actually, you're wrong. SIPTU for one represent both public and private sector workers, and have afaik more members in the private sector than public. But that's ok, we wouldn't want facts to get in the way on this union bashing forum.

I won't if you don't.

ParkRunner

dvpower wrote: »

Remember, its the Public Sector unions. They'll take a good while to come up with a plan. It'll get sent for approval. A few more months will pass. Eventually there'll be a half assed response that doesn't do any good at all.

It could be a lot sooner than that according to the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0114/1224262301922.html

some unions have begun serving formal notice of industrial action on the Government to come into effect in some cases from next week and in others from Monday, January 25th.

The CPSU has warned the Department of Finance that its members in Government departments and in non-commercial State agencies would begin industrial action from Tuesday, January 19th.

dvpower

EF wrote: »

It could be a lot sooner than that according to the Irish Times:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0114/1224262301922.html

I agree with Blair Horan.

Blair Horan wrote:

Low-level industrial action is not going to persuade the Government to change course. It will take more extensive strike action. But that will happen in my view

Apart from his last sentence.

There will be low level action, enough to piss off the public but not enough to reverse the paycuts. Public servants don't have the wish or the stomach for the type of industrial action required to obtain a reversal anything close to what they could call a victory. There will be a few small concessions but nothing more.

This will fizzle out, until early autumn when the 2011 budget looms large and the government having failed to deliver productivity savings in the PS, go back for more paycuts.

MI5

The met office guys are public service. Bet the Beards instructed their members there, to switch on the cold snap:eek: Don't be surprised if you get snow in August. Certainly, if you see Begg and Jacko, letting the beards fill out and get longer, it could be a harbinger of a long cold summer

imme

*yawns*
is this the quality of debate we're back to on Boards?

otwb

Rujib1 wrote: »

What's happening on the PS industrial relations front? Weren't we promised fire and brimstone by the beards, in response to the pay cuts! I honestly don't think I have seen Jim Larkin ... sorry I mean Jack O Connor once in the media since before christmass!

R1

Er...it was christmas. They were on christmas holidays. Then it snowed.

Industrial action planner:-

Feb - Get ready for rapid build up of short sharp action -need to get it in fast before the mid-term break and easter (holidays to plan). Liam Doran to start growing beard.

May - Teachers will kick off before the exam season (holidays to plan) ? mabye passport office go on work to rule.

June/July/August - All quiet on IR front (holiday time)

September - start ramping up (coming back from holidays).

Oct/Nov/Dec - all-out strike in all areas before the budget

FlutterinBantam

I would say they are licking their wounds as for once the general public and taxpayer told them exactly what he thought of them.


If they have a lick of sense they will stay close to the ground,as surely they should know that at this stage they have zero public support, following a failed campaign.

kippy

imme wrote: »

*yawns*
is this the quality of debate we're back to on Boards?

Back To?
Did it improve between October and now?

c montgomery

The beards got caught out big time by Lenihan. They dont have public support and with the economy the way it is they will have even less if they start industrial action.
The decisions have been made and they wont be reversed. They would be better served trying to keep the conditions they now currently have from being reduced in the next budget.

Siptu go on about the man in the street and the lower payed all the time. They claim that the private sector have not taken any of the pain and that they have not taken any pay cuts. Now i am in the private sector and also a member of siptu and guess what, when we had to take pay cuts last year who was there negotiating them for us,Siptu were. And when i was layed off for 4 weeks who negotiated that for me, Siptu again.
And guess what, when i was layed off for those 4 weeks i still had to pay my union fees. Five euro of my dole went to these clowns.
There nothing but a shower of self serving ba5terds who bend and manipulate the truth to suit their own argument, and even when they do this they still get outsmarted. Idiots

gerry28

Impact sent round their notice last week.

I'd like to see my union make more of an effort in helping the lower paid workers. The pension levy should be done away with for the lower paid PS workers.

I've reluctantly accepted the paycuts (just) but the pension levy makes no sense at the lower end of the scale. Part time workers, temporary staff, grade III's etc are now overpaying considering what they will get in return.

c montgomery

gerry28 wrote: »

Impact sent round their notice last week.

I'd like to see my union make more of an effort in helping the lower paid workers. The pension levy should be done away with for the lower paid PS workers.

I've reluctantly accepted the paycuts (just) but the pension levy makes no sense at the lower end of the scale. Part time workers, temporary staff, grade III's etc are now overpaying considering what they will get in return.

How are they overpaying?? The levies at this level of pay is only 3% i think and they are outside the tax net.
They have the same entitlements as any other worker out there many of which are paying tax at a rate of 51% when all levies are taken into account. If anything their underpaying.

Unions dont really care about the lower payed anyway. With their 12 day off suggestion to cut costs it applied to all public sector staff, lower and higher payed together. They only care about themselves.

Sand

The goverment ought to respond to any work to rule efforts with a pay to rule: if civil service is only doing 80% of their task, only pay them 80% of their wage. There is plenty of public support out there for taking a strong line on the public sector unions - the reaction to the 12 days of christmas offer shows that.

murphaph

c montgomery wrote: »

The beards got caught out big time by Lenihan. They dont have public support and with the economy the way it is they will have even less if they start industrial action.
The decisions have been made and they wont be reversed. They would be better served trying to keep the conditions they now currently have from being reduced in the next budget.

Siptu go on about the man in the street and the lower payed all the time. They claim that the private sector have not taken any of the pain and that they have not taken any pay cuts. Now i am in the private sector and also a member of siptu and guess what, when we had to take pay cuts last year who was there negotiating them for us,Siptu were. And when i was layed off for 4 weeks who negotiated that for me, Siptu again.
And guess what, when i was layed off for those 4 weeks i still had to pay my union fees. Five euro of my dole went to these clowns.
There nothing but a shower of self serving ba5terds who bend and manipulate the truth to suit their own argument, and even when they do this they still get outsmarted. Idiots

You mean SIPTU didn't suggest holding your employer to ransom with severe industrial action when your employer showed SIPTU that they could not afford to pay you your previous salary?

Strange how their attitude to a different employer (i.e, the government) which is technically bankrupt (i.e, presumably in a worse financial state than your employer) is so different. It's shamefully different in fact. If I were you I would withdraw from the union and try your best to starve them of the funds they need to carry on their campaign against the Irish taxpayer.

gerry28

c montgomery wrote: »

[/b]How are they overpaying?? The levies at this level of pay is only 3% i think and they are outside the tax net.
They have the same entitlements as any other worker out there many of which are paying tax at a rate of 51% when all levies are taken into account. If anything their underpaying.

I pay 4% in the levy and that is on top of my normal pension deductions. If i remain at the same grade till i retire than that is 40 years worth of pension contributions. I'm not convinced i will recieve a pension that will reflect what i've paid in.

In terms of part time workers, their pension will be even less and temporary workers much the same.

johnathan woss

Sand wrote: »

The goverment ought to respond to any work to rule efforts with a pay to rule: if civil service is only doing 80% of their task, only pay them 80% of their wage. There is plenty of public support out there for taking a strong line on the public sector unions - the reaction to the 12 days of christmas offer shows that.

I'm not sure what is being proposed but I do know that some public service workers do overtime that they are not paid for or renumerated for.
If they are doing 100% of what is outlined in their contract then they should be paid 100% of their wages, even if they would usually do more than is outlined in their contracts.

twowheelsonly

Sand wrote: »

The goverment ought to respond to any work to rule efforts with a pay to rule: if civil service is only doing 80% of their task, only pay them 80% of their wage. There is plenty of public support out there for taking a strong line on the public sector unions - the reaction to the 12 days of christmas offer shows that.

???? Not sure that you understand exactly what a work to rule entails.
As outlined by the previous poster many workers (in all sectors) actually end up doing more than what they are hired to do. It's particularly true in my own case (Public Sector) where we are always short staffed and our workload has increased enormously. We're always 'filling gaps' and basically this is what will be stopped.

ardmacha

if civil service is only doing 80% of their task, only pay them 80% of their wage.

A work to rule would entail doing the task and nothing but the task. And the government is only paying 85% of the wage as it stands.

Sand

@Jonathan Ross

I'm not sure what is being proposed but I do know that some public service workers do overtime that they are not paid for or renumerated for.

That is not all that exceptional to be honest. I do plenty of overtime that I am not directly paid for or renumberated for...if you ignore my salary of course.

@ twowheelsonly

???? Not sure that you understand exactly what a work to rule entails.
As outlined by the previous poster many workers (in all sectors) actually end up doing more than what they are hired to do. It's particularly true in my own case (Public Sector) where we are always short staffed and our workload has increased enormously. We're always 'filling gaps' and basically this is what will be stopped.

Again, the "getting the job done" is part of standard working practise in most of the real world. If getting the job done requires overtime, then thats your job. If it requires a little flexiability in covering something extra, then thats your job. If someone is let go and there isnt budget to hire a replacement, then covering his or workload is your job.

If that isnt appealing, hand in your resignation. Theres an army of people (well educated in a lot of cases) out there wholl take your arm off at the shoulder for the chance to do it, with a smile, at half the price.

Look at the circular the guy linked and the so called additional tasks they are citing that are "exceptional" and to be withdrawn under so called work to rule:

1 - answering a phone
2 - operating a computer
3 - dealing with particular departments/entities or "clients" to use the private sector term
4 - adhering to reformed work practises and efficiencies

Ridiculous. Like I said, if they want to stop getting the job done, then the government should reduce their pay by a relatively equivalent amount. If those terms seem harsh or unfair, theres always the option to resign.

Flex

ardmacha wrote: »

A work to rule would entail doing the task and nothing but the task. And the government is only paying 85% of the wage as it stands.

Is the other 15% coming from the money theyre borrowing? I thought it was more.

BroomBurner

Have any other PS members on Boards.ie asked their PS reps about the future action? In particular about the u-turn on cuts for the higher grades. PM me if you don't want to publicly post replies, but I am interested to know if I'm the only one out there that is asking the question.

I have asked, but have not yet received any reply. Have emailed my rep a couple of times with the same question, going to keep asking it until I get a reply.

gerry28

BroomBurner wrote: »

Have any other PS members on Boards.ie asked their PS reps about the future action? In particular about the u-turn on cuts for the higher grades. PM me if you don't want to publicly post replies, but I am interested to know if I'm the only one out there that is asking the question.

I have asked, but have not yet received any reply. Have emailed my rep a couple of times with the same question, going to keep asking it until I get a reply.

I think its a good idea. I will email my local rep about it tomorrow and also ask have they made any efforts to ease the burden on the lower paid. Particurlarly on the pension levy which i think is crude and unfair.

BroomBurner

gerry28 wrote: »

I think its a good idea. I will email my local rep about it tomorrow and also ask have they made any efforts to ease the burden on the lower paid. Particurlarly on the pension levy which i think is crude and unfair.

Yeah, let me know how you get on.

I'm very interested to see if any PS union will go against another (those representing the higher paid grades) in the interest of fairness, and campaign for the reintroduction of the cuts to their wages.

Nody

BroomBurner wrote: »

I'm very interested to see if any PS union will go against another (those representing the higher paid grades) in the interest of fairness, and campaign for the reintroduction of the cuts to their wages.

Mind passing on what you're smoking because it has to be good stuff if you think the unions are about anything but the higher paid grades (inc. themselves) beyond lip service.

BroomBurner

Nody wrote: »

Mind passing on what you're smoking because it has to be good stuff if you think the unions are about anything but the higher paid grades (inc. themselves) beyond lip service.

Are you a member of a PS union? Do you know how many there are, and who they all represent? Do you know at what payscales they are all paid at?