If you could rewrite/amend the Irish constitution, what would you do?

Wheely

Scofflaw wrote: »

We cannot reintroduce the death penalty in Ireland, because we are signatories to Protocol 13 of the ECHR, which prohibits the death penalty in any form (including in time of war). Even if we rowed back on Protocol 13, we'd still be bound by both Protocol 6 of the ECHR and the Charter of Fundamental Rights, both of which preclude the use of the civil death penalty, which is what you're calling for.

If there is 100% certainty of both guilt and reoffence, then keeping people locked up for life is entirely adequate to protect the public - with less than 100% certainty, you will be killing innocent people.

The death penalty is unnecessary, cannot be reversed in the light of new evidence, has no convincing record of deterrence, and the only thing that can be said for it is that it is cheaper and some people find it gratifying, neither of which are acceptable reasons for killing people.

regards,
Scofflaw

+1

@ Jonothananon-What in the hell was meant by "Europe dictates we can do this" anyway?

Lockstep

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty impractical and they could barely agree on many points. The minority opinions are fantastic and some of the later articles by its authors on the issues they disagreed with are absolute must reads, particularly Gerard Hogan.

Well, we are talking fantasy here; what we'd like to see in it.

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a danger that if they're enumerated then the Courts will feel bound by the list as exhaustive. Leaving the unenumerated rights reservoir intact as it currently stands is fine.

Yes but that doesn't mean uninumerated rights don't apply anymore. It means that the existing ones are solidified and made canon, leaving future ones open if needed.

Deleted User wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. Never going to happen unless Europe force us to somehow, probably ECHR related but I doubt it since the ECHR isn't really binding.

Shame I know.


[QUOTE=Deleted User;64029898
Legislative matter.[/quote]
Once again, we are talking about an idealised constitution.

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't have an absolute right subject to anything. If you accept that it is a right which can be limited then you have to live with that. FWIW I think freedom of expression laws here are a bit unusual.

Fair point. I should have said reducing the restrictions on freedom of expression, rather than defiining it as an absolute right.

Deleted User wrote: »

Pointless. The House of Lords 2 year shelving veto really works wonders for their authority.

Yes, but the president isn't trying to execute a high amount of authority (I prefer having an unpoliticised,ceremonial head of state rather than the potentially divisive US-style president.

Deleted User wrote: »

The definition of the family comes from the courts, not the Constitution. You could put a definition in the Constitution but then it limits the definition to that. It's a very complex issue.

I don't see why the defininition of the family cannot be enshrined while leaving the possibility open. Treason is defined for example

oscarBravo

Wheely wrote: »

@ Jonothananon-What in the hell was meant by "Europe dictates we can do this" anyway?

Pre-Lisbon urban legend. I wouldn't worry about it.

aDeener

Scofflaw wrote: »

We cannot reintroduce the death penalty in Ireland, because we are signatories to Protocol 13 of the ECHR, which prohibits the death penalty in any form (including in time of war). Even if we rowed back on Protocol 13, we'd still be bound by both Protocol 6 of the ECHR and the Charter of Fundamental Rights, both of which preclude the use of the civil death penalty, which is what you're calling for.

If there is 100% certainty of both guilt and reoffence, then keeping people locked up for life is entirely adequate to protect the public - with less than 100% certainty, you will be killing innocent people.

The death penalty is unnecessary, cannot be reversed in the light of new evidence, has no convincing record of deterrence, and the only thing that can be said for it is that it is cheaper and some people find it gratifying, neither of which are acceptable reasons for killing people.

regards,
Scofflaw

There is no need for the death penalty, in my eyes it is a way out for the scum outlined by the previoius poster. What needs to be done is proper sentencing, bread and water, hard labour etc. not this rubbish of a serial rapist getting out after 8 years for "good behaviour". This probably isnt a constitutional issue what im talking about but i do feel the judicial system needs a complete overhaul. The death penalty is not the way to go at all

marcsignal

I'd put a match to it and start again, beginning with introducing a Civil Law based legal system, and scrapping the Common Law one we're trying to still apply, for a country and society that no longer exists.

eblistic

jhegarty wrote: »

Do you really think that a few meaningless words in a preamble is the most pressing issue the country has the moment ?

The power that a certain religious instution has enjoyed for the last century and a half is arguably the most pressing issue the country has at the moment. (If not it's got to be up there).

I'd actually say the problem of control of our primary education system is the worst symptom so a constitutional ban on religious discrimination and sectarian segregation in both the employment criteria and enrollment acceptance criteria in publicly funded primary schools doesn't seem unreasonable does it?

kraggy

SeanW wrote: »

Biggest thing for me would be getting rid of that nonsense about blasphemy, and the associated legislation. When we're getting commended for our human rights policy by countries like Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, something is wrong.

Getting rid of the "Irish" language as the first language of the State would be my next priority.

Why would you want to get rid of Irish as the first language? Why the hell do people have a problem with our national language?

And why did you put Irish in inverted commas?

rubensni

1. Scrap text in preamble about the holy trinity, humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ sustaining our fathers through centuries of trial, etc. and put it up there on the first page that the country is a republic and all power derives from the people who are sovereign. All other references to God/religion in the main body should be scrapped esp. Art. 44.

2. Take the abortion issue out of it altogether. Leave it up to the legislature when life begins.

3. Remove the requirement that the right of freedom of speech be subject to public order and morality. Scrap the requirement that blasphemy be criminalised.

4. No references as to where women should be. Strike out that whole section. Make rights of children concrete, scrap special position of the family.

5. Reduce Dáil terms to 4 years, Keep PR but scrap multi-seat constituencies, scrap the Seanád. Require that by-elections be held within three weeks of a death/vacancy.

6. Allow Taoiseach to nominate members of the government from outside the Dáil, except the Taoiseach, Táiniste and Minister for Finance.

7. Reduce Presidential terms to 4 years with no bar to amount of terms a person can serve in that office.

8. Reduce age floor for running to any elected office to 18 years.

9. Allow for minority judgments in Art. 26 references. Allow for constitutional challenge even if bill has been subject to Art. 26 reference.

10. Enumerated right to privacy with wording similar to ECHR.

rubensni

kraggy wrote: »

Why the hell do people have a problem with our national language?

The constitutional position is either language (or both) can be used, and that makes sense. I think most people have a problem with the Official Status Act which has given Irish plenty of bad press over the years as it is nothing more than an empty PC gesture. When I hear of technical documents like environmental impact statements being translated into Irish solely for the purposes of delaying a bypass or the like, or county development plans lying unread in council offices after hundreds of thousands being spent on translation it makes my blood boil. I'm a fluent Irish speaker and I have yet to meet anyone who would choose the Irish version of a technical document.

oppenheimer1

rubensni wrote: »

1. Scrap text in preamble about the holy trinity, humbly acknowledging all our obligations to our Divine Lord, Jesus Christ sustaining our fathers through centuries of trial, etc. and put it up there on the first page that the country is a republic and all power derives from the people who are sovereign. All other references to God/religion in the main body should be scrapped esp. Art. 44.

2. Take the abortion issue out of it altogether. Leave it up to the legislature when life begins.

3. Remove the requirement that the right of freedom of speech be subject to public order and morality. Scrap the requirement that blasphemy be criminalised.

4. No references as to where women should be. Strike out that whole section. Make rights of children concrete, scrap special position of the family.

5. Reduce Dáil terms to 4 years, Keep PR but scrap multi-seat constituencies, scrap the Seanád. Require that by-elections be held within three weeks of a death/vacancy. Do you even know how PR works?? For a single seat PR reduces to first past the post.

6. Allow Taoiseach to nominate members of the government from outside the Dáil, except the Taoiseach, Táiniste and Minister for Finance. Have you read the constitution as it exists, This can happen as it stands, its just never used.

7. Reduce Presidential terms to 4 years with no bar to amount of terms a person can serve in that office. Why?

8. Reduce age floor for running to any elected office to 18 years. Why? Personally I'm more concerned by dynasties.

9. Allow for minority judgments in Art. 26 references. Allow for constitutional challenge even if bill has been subject to Art. 26 reference.

10. Enumerated right to privacy with wording similar to ECHR.

.

oscarBravo

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Do you even know how PR works?? For a single seat PR reduces to first past the post.

Presumably the intention was to keep STV, which allows for 1-2-3 voting instead of the 'X' approach of FPTP.

FYI, it would help if you could figure out how to break up quotes using the

tags rather than putting your replies inside someone else's quote and using coloured text.

rubensni

oscarBravo wrote: »

Presumably the intention was to keep STV, which allows for 1-2-3 voting instead of the 'X' approach of FPTP.

That's exactly what I meant, similar to presidential elections. First past the post is a mess.

rubensni

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

6. Allow Taoiseach to nominate members of the government from outside the Dáil, except the Taoiseach, Táiniste and Minister for Finance.

Have you read the constitution as it exists, This can happen as it stands, its just never used.

I could ask you the same question! The current system requires the taoiseach to appoint them to the seanad. As I propose scrapping the seanad (point No. 5), the existing system would have to go. The current system also puts a cap of two on the number of non-TD cabinet members (Art 28.7.2), a cap I would favour removing.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

7. Reduce Presidential terms to 4 years with no bar to amount of terms a person can serve in that office.

Why?

I think it's pretty self explanatory. I feel seven years is too long to go without an election, but I don't see the reason for the (current) two term limit.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

8. Reduce age floor for running to any elected office to 18 years.

Why?

It is a democracy and if the people want to elect 18 year olds (i.e. adult citizens who have the right to vote) I say let'em. Anything else is discriminatory as far as I'm concerned

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Personally I'm more concerned by dynasties.

I personally don't care if people keep electing people from dynasties, and in any case attempts to limit them would be undemocratic. How do you propose limiting dynasties without breaching equality provisions?

Sulmac

I've thought of a few more since my original post:

11. Adopt a monist (rather than the current dualist) international policy [see here for explanation].

12. Irish and English to both be official and equal languages; also have some special provision around the status of Irish Sign Language, like in New Zealand.

13. If possible, replace common law with civil law (probably on a phased basis).

14. Shorter presidential terms, elected every 4 years on the same date as the Dáil and local government. Basically, 29 February would be a national election day. Continue the two term limit.